Avatar image for gilateen
Posted by Gilateen (4402 posts) 8 months, 27 days ago

Poll: Yhwach vs Kaguya Otsutsuki (142 votes)

Yhwach 44%
Kaguya 48%
Stalemate 8%

•Chakra=Reiahsu

•Battle takes Place At the Shinobi war battlefield

•Win by death or K.O

Which Final villain will take it?

Avatar image for chaos239
#1 Posted by Chaos239 (5081 posts) - - Show Bio

If Yhwach has Almighty he should eventually take it.

Avatar image for gilateen
#2 Posted by Gilateen (4402 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kayc,@CodeVein,@great_black_star,@Bionar,@uchihaghost,@amberprice,@Hope_w,@GoldHeretic,@AlexTheBoss

Avatar image for codevein
#3 Edited by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

If Yhwach has Almighty he wins, without it he wont its that simple.

Avatar image for codevein
#4 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

So now Confirm Does Yhwach have Almighty?

Avatar image for gilateen
#5 Posted by Gilateen (4402 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for codevein
#6 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@gilateen said:

@codevein: Both are at there best

Dude this is really simple if you Want Kaguya to win so bad you just say Yhwach doesn't have Almighty everyone agrees he will lose without it....

Avatar image for gilateen
#7 Edited by Gilateen (4402 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein: Made it a fair fight.

I say kaguya wins since yhwach has nothing to kill her

Avatar image for codevein
#8 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@gilateen said:

@codevein: Made it a fair fight.

I say kaguya stomps since yhwach has nothing to kill her

He has a plethora of ways to kill her...

He legit turned an absolute power into nothing with Almighty as he fought Ichibei.

Avatar image for gilateen
#9 Posted by Gilateen (4402 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for faradaysloth
#10 Posted by FaradaySloth (10783 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein said:
@gilateen said:

@codevein: Made it a fair fight.

I say kaguya stomps since yhwach has nothing to kill her

He has a plethora of ways to kill her...

He legit turned an absolute power into nothing with Almighty as he fought Ichibei.

Better to leave the thread now, I have seen people make the claim that Onoki, Fourth Raikage, and KN4 all have better feats than Bleach (meaning they would stomp Ichibe.)

Better to leave now before you're called a wanker for having a different opinion.

Avatar image for theemperor95
#11 Posted by TheEmperor95 (1716 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus: I'm on mobile so I can only post links

Kenny meteor bust feat. This is with eye patch on and in the past his eye patch off has been a similar boost to bankai.

www.mangareader.net/bleach/577/16

Next we have him vs gerard and gerard parties his blade meaning they have roughly equal strength (kenpachi is still physically stronger at this point in time). This is kenpachi with his eye patch off so he is already roughly 5-10 times more powerful than when he busted the meteor.

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/667/17

Next is kenpachi going bankai and completely overpowering gerard. This is another 5-10 times boost

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/667/17

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/669/14

After this gerard powers up again and goes vollstandig but before we talk about that let's discuss how strong each miracle for increases him by. First you have him being beaten by byakuya and renji. After his first miracle power up he is able to completely tank byakuya bankai with his hand without a scratch on him.

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/655

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/655/16

The fact that he is now able to no sold byakuya bankai means that each power up is significant. Should be at least 5-10 times

Now since we know that each power up is significant then when he uses the miracle again to go vollstandig he gets about 5-10x stronger again. We know this one is for sure 5-10x because vollstandig gives you a 5-10x boost like bankai.

www.mangareader.net/bleach/670/8

After this he again powers up from the miracle and that form all of its power is absorbed by yhwach. So kenpachi got 2 power boosts from removing his eye patch and going bankai so this is roughly 10-20x stronger than when he one shorted the meteor. The gerard that got absorbed was stronger than that kenpachi.

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/672/7

www.mangareader.net/bleach/680/17

In addition to that he absorbed ichigo power. Now ichigo shikai form was stated to be equal to dangai. He also gets 2 power ups. Hollowification and bankai. Both are 5-10x boosts so he's roughly 10-20x more powerful than his dangai form

www.mangareader.net/bleach/680/4

Now yhwach starting strength before he absorbed them. For this we will go back to his fight with yama for a quick moment. Now we know that yama has multi city durability from tanking his flames after he killed wonderweiss.

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/395/16

Now despite this yama was still one shot by yhwach with a Quincy arrow which isn't sharp except at the arrowhead. The rest is just energy but not sharp energy. This means yhwach attack potency is multi city with a single swing. You can argue yama was tired however he immediately went bankai again which means that he was worn out and could still fight effectively. Also yama after tanking his flames and in much worse condition was still a threat to aizen

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/510/18

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/511/4

Now moving on to his fight with ichebei. Ichebei knocked yhwach 1000 ri (I've seen a couple translations for how far this is) and did it again into an object and didn't even have a scratch on him. This was while at half power before he absorbed mimihagi or the soul king and it still didn't effect him

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/606/15

Now to get to his final power ups. After he absorbed mimihagi he said it was too much energy to keep within his body. People get this mistaken with him absorbing the soul king but he hasn't absorbed him yet as you can see in the second link. So all of the powers of the sternritter isn't too much for his body but mimihagi is. That just goes to show how much power mimihagi had.

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/620/14

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/621/6

Now while mimihagi was strong he was only a portion of the soul kings power. And after absorbing the soul king yhwach says that he has too much power. Implying that the soul king is far more than both his an mimihagi combined.

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/626/12

Now after absorbing mimihagi he was able to blanket the entire sereitei in one move after absorbing the soul king he was able to lift the entire sereitei from the ground up to him in seconds. He didn't just move it though he perfectly placed all building and restored them. This feat alone is above anything Kaguya has done and shows they are in the same tier if not he's slightly higher

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/627/8

For his durability we have ichigo in his fused hollow form which is 5-10x stronger than his dangai and yet yhwach catches his sword with hid bare hands and no sold the gran ray cero

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/676/12

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/677/4

I'll stop here because this post is hella long as is although I could get into speed and what not if you would like

Avatar image for theemperor95
#12 Posted by TheEmperor95 (1716 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure what happened to the last thread but here's my reply

Avatar image for codevein
#13 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for codevein
#14 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein said:
@gilateen said:

@codevein: Made it a fair fight.

I say kaguya stomps since yhwach has nothing to kill her

He has a plethora of ways to kill her...

He legit turned an absolute power into nothing with Almighty as he fought Ichibei.

Better to leave the thread now, I have seen people make the claim that Onoki, Fourth Raikage, and KN4 all have better feats than Bleach (meaning they would stomp Ichibe.)

Better to leave now before you're called a wanker for having a different opinion.

Thats there opinion lol not gonna change my mind.

If i'm deemed a wanker for saying how Almighty works and how Yhwach would win due to the information we get in the Blood war Arc.

Whoop sorry for using the canon material.

Avatar image for goldheretic
#15 Posted by GoldHeretic (672 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaguya low-diff

Avatar image for diydeath
#16 Posted by diydeath (2554 posts) - - Show Bio

The Almighty wins. Too hax for Kag to handle.

Avatar image for codevein
#17 Edited by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

When you realize Kubo actually nerfed Yhwach because technically he should have all the sternreitters powers, Jugrams the Balance Grimmy's imagination.

But jesus christ that alongside the almighty would be way stupidly broken...

Also Yama's Zanpakuto and the soul kings powers along all other Zanpakuto hes stolen.

Avatar image for alextheboss
#18 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18667 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaguya wins since Yhwach has nothing to stop the expanding truth seeking orb.

Avatar image for ourmanuel
#19 Posted by ourmanuel (12318 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: you mean apart from him attacking her while she’s doing it or him teleporting out.

Avatar image for gilateen
#20 Posted by Gilateen (4402 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for kallekazikaze
#21 Posted by Kallekazikaze (527 posts) - - Show Bio

and nothing kaguya has can stop the almighty

Avatar image for diydeath
#22 Posted by diydeath (2554 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: If he sees them, he can nullify their power or manifest a future where they're broken.

Avatar image for gilateen
#23 Posted by Gilateen (4402 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for faradaysloth
#24 Posted by FaradaySloth (10783 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein said:
@faradaysloth said:
@codevein said:
@gilateen said:

@codevein: Made it a fair fight.

I say kaguya stomps since yhwach has nothing to kill her

He has a plethora of ways to kill her...

He legit turned an absolute power into nothing with Almighty as he fought Ichibei.

Better to leave the thread now, I have seen people make the claim that Onoki, Fourth Raikage, and KN4 all have better feats than Bleach (meaning they would stomp Ichibe.)

Better to leave now before you're called a wanker for having a different opinion.

Thats there opinion lol not gonna change my mind.

If i'm deemed a wanker for saying how Almighty works and how Yhwach would win due to the information we get in the Blood war Arc.

Whoop sorry for using the canon material.

I wish you luck.

Avatar image for earendill
#25 Edited by Earendill (1369 posts) - - Show Bio

Ehh... 1000. vs lol

Kaguya effortless curbstomps. Creation 7?+ planet... Yhwach featless.

Avatar image for alextheboss
#26 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18667 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: you mean apart from him attacking her while she’s doing it or him teleporting out.

Her body literally became the truth seeking orb so I don't think he can attack her while she is doing it, but ya he could leave the dimension. At that point it's a stalemate.

@diydeath said:

@alextheboss: If he sees them, he can nullify their power or manifest a future where they're broken.

He can nullify and break things if he has the ability to do so, but I don't think he could do that to the expanding truth seeking orb, but like ourmanuel said above, Yhwach could leave the dimension.

Avatar image for codevein
#27 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

Ehh... 1000. vs lol

Kaguya effortless stomps. Creation 7+ planet... Yhwach featless.

Featless????????

What era of time did you leap from??

Avatar image for codevein
#28 Edited by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss said:
@ourmanuel said:

@alextheboss: you mean apart from him attacking her while she’s doing it or him teleporting out.

Her body literally became the truth seeking orb so I don't think he can attack her while she is doing it, but ya he could leave the dimension. At that point it's a stalemate.

@diydeath said:

@alextheboss: If he sees them, he can nullify their power or manifest a future where they're broken.

He can nullify and break things if he has the ability to do so, but I don't think he could do that to the expanding truth seeking orb, but like ourmanuel said above, Yhwach could leave the dimension.

What stops Yhwach from simply altering the timeline to where she hasnt done the ball and he just absorbs her???

Avatar image for diydeath
#29 Posted by diydeath (2554 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: Any reason you think Yhwach couldn't either nullify or break the ETSB?

Avatar image for earendill
#30 Edited by Earendill (1369 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein said:
@earendill said:

Ehh... 1000. vs lol

Kaguya effortless stomps. Creation 7+ planet... Yhwach featless.

Featless????????

What era of time did you leap from??

How does it have feats? Let's see it!

Avatar image for codevein
#31 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein said:
@earendill said:

Ehh... 1000. vs lol

Kaguya effortless stomps. Creation 7+ planet... Yhwach featless.

Featless????????

What era of time did you leap from??

How to feat???? Let's see it!

Up above someone posted several scans and feats for Yhwach....

Avatar image for earendill
#32 Edited by Earendill (1369 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein said:
@earendill said:
@codevein said:
@earendill said:

Ehh... 1000. vs lol

Kaguya effortless stomps. Creation 7+ planet... Yhwach featless.

Featless????????

What era of time did you leap from??

How to feat???? Let's see it!

Up above someone posted several scans and feats for Yhwach....

Theirs are not at all feat feat and the level is very low. Kaguya's feat planetary +++

Avatar image for codevein
#33 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein said:
@earendill said:
@codevein said:
@earendill said:

Ehh... 1000. vs lol

Kaguya effortless stomps. Creation 7+ planet... Yhwach featless.

Featless????????

What era of time did you leap from??

How to feat???? Let's see it!

Up above someone posted several scans and feats for Yhwach....

Theirs are not at all feat feat and the level is very low. Kaguya planetary +++ level.

By a statement just like how Yhwach was stated to be going to destroy Soul Society human world and Hueco Mundo....

Avatar image for ourmanuel
#34 Posted by ourmanuel (12318 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel said:

@alextheboss: you mean apart from him attacking her while she’s doing it or him teleporting out.

Her body literally became the truth seeking orb so I don't think he can attack her while she is doing it, but ya he could leave the dimension. At that point it's a stalemate.

Imeant he could attack her before she could do it seeing as his almighty should easily be able to predict something like this. But yeah, dimension hopping would also suffice.
Avatar image for earendill
#35 Posted by Earendill (1369 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein said:
@earendill said:
@codevein said:
@earendill said:
@codevein said:
@earendill said:

Ehh... 1000. vs lol

Kaguya effortless stomps. Creation 7+ planet... Yhwach featless.

Featless????????

What era of time did you leap from??

How to feat???? Let's see it!

Up above someone posted several scans and feats for Yhwach....

Theirs are not at all feat feat and the level is very low. Kaguya planetary +++ level.

By a statement just like how Yhwach was stated to be going to destroy Soul Society human world and Hueco Mundo....

But still featless...

Avatar image for codevein
#36 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein said:
@earendill said:
@codevein said:
@earendill said:
@codevein said:
@earendill said:

Ehh... 1000. vs lol

Kaguya effortless stomps. Creation 7+ planet... Yhwach featless.

Featless????????

What era of time did you leap from??

How to feat???? Let's see it!

Up above someone posted several scans and feats for Yhwach....

Theirs are not at all feat feat and the level is very low. Kaguya planetary +++ level.

By a statement just like how Yhwach was stated to be going to destroy Soul Society human world and Hueco Mundo....

But still featless...

As featless as planetary Kaguya.

Avatar image for gilateen
#37 Posted by Gilateen (4402 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for codevein
#38 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@gilateen said:

@codevein: @earendill: that’s what makes them even but kaguya still wins

How does Kaguya win against someone who overwrites his own death????

Avatar image for azureus
#39 Posted by Azureus (2793 posts) - - Show Bio

@theemperor95:

Kenny meteor bust feat. This is with eye patch on and in the past his eye patch off has been a similar boost to bankai.

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/577/16

That's an island level feat at best. If I were to assume that AP correlates directly to power multipliers (It doesn't), I would end at multi-island to small country. So even if I make some pretty bold assumption here, this amounts to nothing yet.

Next we have him vs gerard and gerard parties his blade meaning they have roughly equal strength....

No...the scan shows Kenpachi blocking Gerard's strike here, he actually never struck back in that panel. So I doubt that Gerard has rougly equal strength to Kenpachi.

(kenpachi is still physically stronger at this point in time). This is kenpachi with his eye patch off so he is already roughly 5-10 times more powerful than when he busted the meteor.

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/667/17

Ok, I'm following so far....

Next is kenpachi going bankai and completely overpowering gerard. This is another 5-10 times boost

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/667/17

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/669/14

Uh huh...

After this gerard powers up again and goes vollstandig but before we talk about that let's discuss how strong each miracle for increases him by. First you have him being beaten by byakuya and renji. After his first miracle power up he is able to completely tank byakuya bankai with his hand without a scratch on him.

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/655

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/655/16

The fact that he is now able to no sold byakuya bankai means that each power up is significant. Should be at least 5-10 times

No, that's not true at all. It's very circumstantial. The difference in power could be the same as casually curling 30 pounds, but barely managing to do the same to 35.

Now since we know that each power up is significant...

We don't know this.

then when he uses the miracle again to go vollstandig he gets about 5-10x stronger again. We know this one is for sure 5-10x because vollstandig gives you a 5-10x boost like bankai.

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/670/8

Ok, makes sense.

After this he again powers up from the miracle and that form all of its power is absorbed by yhwach. So kenpachi got 2 power boosts from removing his eye patch and going bankai so this is roughly 10-20x stronger than when he one shorted the meteor. The gerard that got absorbed was stronger than that kenpachi.

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/672/7

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/680/17

Only when assuming he was comparable to Kenpachi with his Shikai and the eyepatch off.

In addition to that he absorbed ichigo power. Now ichigo shikai form was stated to be equal to dangai. He also gets 2 power ups. Hollowification and bankai. Both are 5-10x boosts so he's roughly 10-20x more powerful than his dangai form

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/680/4

No...he absorbed the sources of power from Ichigo, he didn't necessarily gain the same powerup multipliers from them as Ichigo did.

Now yhwach starting strength before he absorbed them. For this we will go back to his fight with yama for a quick moment. Now we know that yama has multi city durability from tanking his flames after he killed wonderweiss.

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/395/16

Now despite this yama was still one shot by yhwach with a Quincy arrow which isn't sharp except at the arrowhead. The rest is just energy but not sharp energy. This means yhwach attack potency is multi city with a single swing. You can argue yama was tired however he immediately went bankai again which means that he was worn out and could still fight effectively. Also yama after tanking his flames and in much worse condition was still a threat to aizen

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/510/18

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/511/4

I can agree to this, but this isn't anywhere close to enough.

Now moving on to his fight with ichebei. Ichebei knocked yhwach 1000 ri (I've seen a couple translations for how far this is) and did it again into an object and didn't even have a scratch on him. This was while at half power before he absorbed mimihagi or the soul king and it still didn't effect him

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/606/15

I don't understand what this means.

Now to get to his final power ups. After he absorbed mimihagi he said it was too much energy to keep within his body. People get this mistaken with him absorbing the soul king but he hasn't absorbed him yet as you can see in the second link. So all of the powers of the sternritter isn't too much for his body but mimihagi is. That just goes to show how much power mimihagi had.

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/620/14

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/621/6

Now while mimihagi was strong he was only a portion of the soul kings power. And after absorbing the soul king yhwach says that he has too much power. Implying that the soul king is far more than both his an mimihagi combined.

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/626/12

Now after absorbing mimihagi he was able to blanket the entire sereitei in one move after absorbing the soul king he was able to lift the entire sereitei from the ground up to him in seconds. He didn't just move it though he perfectly placed all building and restored them.

This feat alone is above anything Kaguya has done and shows they are in the same tier if not he's slightly higher

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/627/8

I can assure it's not...this feat is probably large island level at best, and it's not even a DC feat. Kaguya oneshot Sasuke's Susanoo, and weaker constructs were already capable of tanking island level to small country blasts.

For his durability we have ichigo in his fused hollow form which is 5-10x stronger than his dangai and yet yhwach catches his sword with hid bare hands and no sold the gran ray cero

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/676/12

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/677/4

This feat is also island level to small country at the very best. This won't tickle Kaguya.

I'll stop here because this post is hella long as is although I could get into speed and what not if you would like

If you'd do speed I would appreaciate it.

Avatar image for kalebmcshaw
#40 Posted by KalebMcShaw (102 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say kaguya can win if she starts off with her planet busting stuff, otherwise she gets overwhelmed. Multiple statements point to multi-planetary stats for SK yhwach.

Avatar image for thevivas
#41 Posted by TheVivas (19592 posts) - - Show Bio

Already been done. Go bump those threads instead of making another.

Avatar image for uchihaghost
#42 Posted by uchihaghost (993 posts) - - Show Bio

Been done, kaguya still wins. Dude aint even beating characters weaker than kaguya. Kaguya slaps him around with her vacuum palms.

Avatar image for thelordofwisdom
#43 Edited by thelordofwisdom (242 posts) - - Show Bio

@kalebmcshaw: "Multiple statements point to multi-planetary stats for SK yhwach".

nicolas cage laughing GIF

Avatar image for kingogkings777
#44 Posted by KingogKings777 (2347 posts) - - Show Bio

Ends in sex.

Online
Avatar image for theemperor95
#45 Posted by TheEmperor95 (1716 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus: okay as much as people hate to admit it was stated that it takes 10 days to walk from one gate to the next. I won't bother doing the math because it's been done before and it leads to the sereitei being larger than an island. The only refute people have is that it doesn't look that large but every single picture of the soul society shows it a different size (this happens with characters as well). So should we go by faulty drawings of it that the author doesn't even care much about or the measurements given by the author?

As for the miracle power up that you don't agree with. You don't go from nearly getting killed by a character and his attacks to no selling in with your bare hand unless you powers up a lot. Even double your strength isn't enough to do. However I can't say that's it's definitely 5-10x.

I was stated that at half power yhwach can be hit and sent hundreds of miles or thousands, depending on the translation, slam into something and not get a scratch. This is before the almighty or any of his other power ups

Moving a structure larger than an island you can even say it's island level (which it isn't) thousands of miles into the air in seconds while restoring all the building to their pre damaged states and putting them all together perfectly is better than destroying something that could tank a small country blast. He does this casually while in a chair.

You can't say it won't tickle Kaguya when her face was bruised by sakura lol that alone proved her durability is more than low enough for yhwach or any high tier in bleach to harm her. Not to mention this was a sakura without chakra left

Give me a little bit of time to do speed. I have to go eat

Avatar image for earendill
#46 Edited by Earendill (1369 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein said:
@gilateen said:

@codevein: @earendill: that’s what makes them even but kaguya still wins

How does Kaguya win against someone who overwrites his own death????

How did Ichigo win?

And you look Izanagi...

Avatar image for codevein
#47 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein said:
@gilateen said:

@codevein: @earendill: that’s what makes them even but kaguya still wins

How does Kaguya win against someone who overwrites his own death????

How did Ichigo win?

And you look Izanagi...

Via very specific and i mean very specific Plot BS.

Avatar image for thelordofwisdom
#48 Edited by thelordofwisdom (242 posts) - - Show Bio

@theemperor95: So what if Sakura bruised Kaguya. She has regen so it's useless in terms of damage. That attack gave a momentum to Naruto and Sasuke so they could land a double godly seal on her. The only way to defeat her. She cannot be killed and that was the reason she was sealed. Yhwach ain't got shit on her, unless Hagoromo comes and gives him some kind of super hax seal.

Avatar image for codevein
#49 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

Certain individuals are immune to the Infinite Tsukuyomi. The dead, such as those brought back with the Impure World Reincarnation, are impervious to the Infinite Tsukuyomi.

This right here is saying IT doesn't work on the dead.

Yhwach is a spirit.

Literally Kaguya can't put him down or in a Genjutsu.

Avatar image for theemperor95
#50 Posted by TheEmperor95 (1716 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus: alright so for speed I was going to use the same format as before but all the math that I would have to do as well as the research would take too long. So I'll use a different scan from the manga. One that's kinda dumb but kubo put it in there all the same.

This scan is liltoto dodging auswahlen. Auswahlen is referred to as a beam of light not something that resembles light. It was stated multiple times to be a beam of light. And there were no obstructions to slow down the light either. This means she has FTL reactions. She also the only person shown to dodge it.

www.mangareader.net/bleach/603/15

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/604

^even narrative states it as light

www.mangareader.net/bleach/604/4

Now this same liltoto was getting blitzed by ichigo even when he was travelling across sereitei

www.mangareader.net/bleach/581/17

This was unable to so much as even scratch yhwach and instead was getting dominated by only his goo

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/674/7

Now after hollowfying he moved so fast that orihime didn't even notice despite the fact that she was looking directly at him and he had a conversation in between

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/676/6

www.mangareader.net/bleach/676/7

www.mangareader.net/bleach/676/8

You've already seen the part where yhwach catches ichigo sword which means he can easily follow ichigo without his almighty and even out right blitzes ichigo in bankai (which is even stronger)

https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/678/12

www.mangareader.net/bleach/678/13

Speed also isn't too much of an issue since he can see the future. Not to mention all he needs to do is swing his sword and he hits her