Yhwach vs Joie (Toriko)

vs

Speed Equalized

Almighty vs Gourmet Luck

Who wins?

Joie

You serious? Yhwach's hax is better, but Joie outstats him by a lot.

@hittheassasin: Speed equalized. I thought physical power doesn't matter much against mustache man.

I’d put probability manipulation over future manipulation because it will just make whatever future Yhwach tries to cherry pick miss. While Joie can seal or One shot Yhwach with pretty much any move that’s guaranteed to hit with Food Luck

Joa seals him pretty easily, not a mismatch since speed is equal but still not a close fight.

Joie high diff

Joie wins.

Yhwach fails to find a single future where he isn't cooked.

@mass: Yhwach manipulates fate which is Causality and Probability manipulation all in one lol.

@sy8000: He doesn't choose a future, he alters the future via Fate Manipulation.

Food Luck also manipulates probability. Using esoteric prose to fluff an ill-defined power isn't garnering Ywach a win here.

Joa cooks him and slows down time to make sure it hurts.

@godren: he changes the future by choosing one where what he wants happens, he doesn’t lol change it like a reality warper does reality or a molecule manipulation doesn’t molecules.

He sees possible futures and selects one where he wins. There isn't a single future he could find where he lives.

@ecoblitz: I'm not sure what you're saying, he doesn't choose anything. Show me a scan in the source material where he says he chooses one.

His precog grants near infinite future sight, he uses that in conjunction with his fate manipulation.

@godren: he literally says that while describing his ability to ichigo. He sees and infinite amount of possibilities and chooses from it.

I think it's clear you're reading mistranslations.

@godren: yes, by choosing the one where what he wants happens and switching to it. I have you the instance and you straight up ignored it. I’m in mobile and can’t post scans but look at it when he explains it to ichigo. He even said it’s like jumping from one grain of sand to another till he finds the outcome he wants iirc.

This is head canon, he simply used that to describe it too Ichigo as simply possible.

"Till he finds an outcome" all this literally happens instantly, there is no delays between his actions.

He blatantly says..

Yhwach: Keep jumping from the rolling grains of sand called fate or possibility with your eyes shit.

Yhwach: That is hope for humans.

Gallery

Gourmet Luck is just Supernatural Luck, which is below The Almighty.

You'd have to have an especially bad reading comprehension to argue that Ywach doesn't change the future by selecting an alternate one. When that's literally what he said he does.

@higherpower: No just selective reading

Yhwach clearly says he changes the future by selecting an alternate one but that just gets ignored for some reason.

Joie solidly. Would be a lot easier if speed wasn't equalized.

@planetbuster012: It's more than really good luck lol, Joei used it to come back from total atomic destruction.

Exactly. This is irrefutable.

@godren So why do you keep posting scans of Ywach saying he changes/alters the future when he already explained HOW he changes the future

To be specific it's the latent energy of the Gourmet Gods and has been used for probability manipulation and straight up reality warping.

Supernatural Luck is Probability Manipulation.

Is she going to do all that before she is nulled and absorbed?, Probability Manipulation is a poor mans Fate Manipulation.

@planetbuster012: I was saying that it's clearly not just probability manipulation though, you can't use probability manipulation to come back from death lmao.

@socajunkie Yeah, I couldn't remember the precise definition lol.

joie swings his sword once gourmet luck does the rest

@higherpower said:

@skysanji said:

@higherpower: No just selective reading

Yhwach clearly says he changes the future by selecting an alternate one but that just gets ignored for some reason.

Exactly. This is irrefutable.

@godren So why do you keep posting scans of Ywach saying he changes/alters the future when he already explained HOW he changes the future?

Because that isn't all there is to it, it's more complicated then that.

He was explaining to Ichigo the fundamentals and used him tumbling through the grains of sand as an example.

Right after that he attacked Ichigo from the future, and implies there is much more to it but not worth the explanation.

Then later after he was killed, he literally states he rewrote the very future in which he died, not simply choose from a select set of predestined futures.

Mustachio solos

Except she didn't die (semantics), there are people in fiction who can regenerate from nothing. Food Luck just granted her regeneration as well.

@skysanji: @higherpower:

iirc that was Yhwach explaining how Ichigo and other regular people change the future, not how the almighty changes the future.

^ At least someone actually understood what was being stated.

@planetbuster012: I don't think you can actually regenerate from nothing tho. You can regenerate from a single cell or a skeleton but if you come back from every atom being destroyed then I don't think that's regeneration anymore, that's something else (like when don slime reformed his head after neo ate it, that wasn't regen either). However, my point was just that food luck is more than just probability manipulation so I think we agree.

I think we do agree for the most part.

"don't think you can actually regenerate from nothing tho."

There are characters who can regenerate from their existence being erased (Digimon for an example), there are characters who can regenerate from complete physical destruction but have other methods of regeneration such as (Dark Schneider).

Joa did die, Midora scattered her atoms. Food Luck brought her back to life.

If you're regenerating you're not dead, coming back from death is resurrection.

At least that's how i think he's explaining it.

Nah that's correct, resurrection is the better term.

@godren: as everyone else already said, yheach manipulates the future. Nothing to do with fate manipulation

@godren: It's not headcanon, Yhwach chooses a future to manifest in the present. We have never, ever seen Yhwach create an entirely new future, which is why he couldn't break Ichigo's bankai a second time with The Almighty (which proves that if something does not happen in the future, then Yhwach cannot make it occur in the present).

That's why Joie wins, similar-ish hax but Joie has vastly superior stats which ensures he always has the advantage in the hax wars.

I'm not even going to entertain this comment lol, you clearly don't know what I was talking about.

@godren: to each their own, no skin off my back

@mass: no hair off my nips

@diydeath: I think godren is wright I read both scans from high-power and godren and it doesn't say in the manga that he chooses a future to manipulate but rather explaining what Ichigo is doing when trying to change the future.

They don't have similar hax at all smh, what exactly is it that people don't understand the difference between fate manipulation, probability manipulation, and causality manipulation? Stats legit mean nothing in the scenario because she doesn't have a way to circumvent The Almighty.

I've never once said he creates futures at all, he simply sees near infinite scenarios and instantly alters the present by manifesting said future if necessary. Were talking about a man who resurrects himself from the future.

Also stating he couldn't break a weaker Ichigo's Bankai is nonsense, he literally just effortlessly dominated his strongest form casually. Aizen used KS and took all the attacks to protect Ichigo in order for him to get a hit in on Yhwach, which completely failed until he was hit by the arrow.

@universeichigo1: Check post #33

Unless that's a mistranslation, I think that's pretty definitive.