Yhwach, Jugram, Yamamoto vs Hashirama, Tobirama, Naruto

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guleddos

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Let the battle begin!

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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Yhwach has WAAAAY 2 many HAX. Has Yamamoto's bankai, can reach into the future with omnipotent knowledge and change whatever he wants, Island level reality warping, more assorted HAX.

Jugram= ehh

Yamamoto surrounds his body with heat at 15,000,000 degrees celcius (27 mil F) the same temp as the core of the sun. Can summon 10 trillion flaming zombies (on earth in all of history there has only been 108 billion) + assorted other HAX that put this team over the top.

SO yea an army of 10 trillion+ flame proof zombies, 2 suns, precog that Midnighter wishes he had, and so much other HAX but i dont think I have to go any further because that is more than enough.

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PhantomRant

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Only way for team naruto to win is if Yhwach is restricted to base.

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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@phantomrant: even at base bleach team would still win most likely.

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alextheboss

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#5  Edited By alextheboss

The Naruto team's only chance is for Naruto to insta nuke the Bleach team before they can think, and even then Jugram might reflect it back with his power and Ywhach might just re-wright their deaths, lol.

Maybe Hashirama and Tobirama can seal them while Naruto is beating them up, but I just think there is too much hax to contend with at the same time here.

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PhantomRant

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@solomonthenotsowise said:

even at base bleach team would still win most likely.

No they wouldn't, they'd get the shit beat out of them. Naruto for one is too fast for anyone to handle and can vaporize all three of them simultaneously by spamming Bijuudama-RasenShurikens.

Hashirama can possibly seal off Haschwalth and Yhwach, although Yama is an issue.

Tobirama is still fodder.

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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@phantomrant: 27 million degrees. 10 trillion super flame zombies unless your going to tell me that Naruto could blow up the sun. Also you wouldnt be able to seal up Yhawch once he has seen any power or once he knows of any power it can never work on him again. Bleach characters fight at very similar speeds and would atleast not get blitzed here. Im not saying these guys are as fast or faster because as far as bleach goes they are some of the slower characters but point being in character Naruto isnt going to unload on these guys before the fight starts and by that time its already over.

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The_Stern_ritter

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Wow, I'm surprised to not see any nonsense like "Naruto solos". Yhwach solos tobirama and hashirama, while the trio gang stomp Naruto. No way in hell is he competing against the Almighty+ The Balance + Yamamoto's Bankai at the same time.

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GXrevs06

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Interesting that people are voting for Bleach. I was under the impression that the general consensus on the forum was Naruto>Bleach. There have been many threads between the top tiers of each and Naruto wins every time. Sasuke vs all sternritters is apparently debatable

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grappolo

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Jugram is a weak link, replace him with someone with better feats.

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bachh2

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Didn't Ywach fall for the illusion bankai?

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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@bachh2: only when it was broken deliberate attempts were stopped. Even Aizen was supprised.

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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@grappolo: well sorta. He cant be hurt because all attacks against him are absorbed and them reflected back on his opponent. He also has a weaker version of yhwach's precog. His precog is somewhere in between SS and midnighter.

So he's no pushover it's just the other 2 are stupid powerful.

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The_Stern_ritter

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#14  Edited By The_Stern_ritter

@gxrevs06 said:

Interesting that people are voting for Bleach. I was under the impression that the general consensus on the forum was Naruto>Bleach. There have been many threads between the top tiers of each and Naruto wins every time. Sasuke vs all sternritters is apparently debatable

Naruto overall is more powerful than bleach, but Sasuke vs all sternritters is an absurd stomp in the sterns favor, anyone who thinks otherwise is either delusional or extremely bias. Nonetheless, their are still top tiers in bleach that can beat Top tier Naruto characters on a 1 on 1 battle, but Naruto characters are just more powerful overall, don't get it twisted, though there are a some Naruto wankers here that say nonsense like "Naruto solos the bleachverse" usually their either misinformed about bleach or just have illogical/unorthodox ways of that happening, but I won't cut out the bleach fanboys/wankers that say stupid shit too.

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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@the_stern_ritter: Another factor people tend to overlook is that there are fewer Bleach fans/ Good bleach debaters. Naruto has many more casual fans and also more good debaters.

The average Naruto power level is certainly higher than bleach. Many of Bleach's characters are barely superhuman+ but the popular ones or the characters important to the story become gods while everyone else gets left behind.

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grappolo

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@solomonthenotsowise: Sure if you use the balance as a no limit fallacy he can absorb and redirect any damage but that's not how it works, using feats the balance merely reflected the damage uryu inflicted on jugram, nothing comparable to the dc of naruto or hashirama.

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Marc_55

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Naruto solos.

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Scythenger

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#18  Edited By Scythenger

Yhwach can spam naruto's verse version of izanagi and has the power to destroy 3 dimensions. Each with their own sun, moon and space.

I'm not saying yhwach is universe level or galaxy level or anything like that but he should have the dc to solo. He definitely has the hax to do so.

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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@grappolo: Bleach loves its NLF's lol. Devils advocate assume he gets hit by an attack that he couldn't avoid or absorb thanks to his precog ( thats a feat in itself) if he died so would the person who inflicted his death upon him. Even if Naruto could tank his own blast it wouldnt matter; What is replicated is the damage inflicted upon him. In other words if he go boom they go boom.

Seriously though Bleach LOVES NLF's lol

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The_Stern_ritter

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@the_stern_ritter: Another factor people tend to overlook is that there are fewer Bleach fans/ Good bleach debaters. Naruto has many more casual fans and also more good debaters.

The average Naruto power level is certainly higher than bleach. Many of Bleach's characters are barely superhuman+ but the popular ones or the characters important to the story become gods while everyone else gets left behind.

I couldn't agree with you anymore man. Bleach not only has fewer debaters/fans, but the fans they do have are usually trolls/noncredible people, maybe if we had a fewer more credible debaters, then things would change.

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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@marc_55: What how? how does he have an attack or durability that could get through the core of the sun. How can he deal with Yhwach altering all possible futures? SO even if Naruto has an ace in the hole Yhwach simply reaches into the future and cuts off his hands or tears out his heart. Every step Naruto takes could have landmines under them. The oxygen that Naruto would normal breathe could be replaced with mustard gas. Also seriously i want everyone to think how F*&^ing huge 10 trillion is. 10 TRILLION super flame zombies could win on their own. Naruto and squad would certainly kill a million to maybe even 5 million but 10 TRILLION without some kind of reality warping or infinite stamina and durability your doomed.

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grappolo

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@solomonthenotsowise: If the freund shield can't absorb the damage it can't redirect it on someone else, nuff said.

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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@grappolo: thats not how his power works. His power would work without the shield he just wouldn't be able to do nearly as much with it. The shield channels all misfortune he would normally receive and then his own power redirects it at his opponent without the shield he takes the damage instead but it is still mirrored as to the damage he takes. Its not as simple as being able to tank your own attack its that if he dies you die from a soul based attack.

The shield is simply what he uses to not be a one off character so to speak. His abilities are not attached to his shield.

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Marc_55

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@solomonthenotsowise: By soloing, how else? He blitzes and oneshots before they even get a chance to do anything.

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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@marc_55: lol okay then. Your one of those guys. lets not remeber that Bleach characters have speed and durablility that wont allow them to get oneshot. Also there is the fact that Naruto is in character and wouldnt blitz off the bat.

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Marc_55

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@solomonthenotsowise: One of those guys? Interesting.

Naruto has more than enough DC to one shot everyone here, including his own team. He is also massively faster than everyone, by large amounts. So, there's no reason he would ignore the speed difference. Naruto may be known for holding back, but he doesn't avoid killing when he needs to.

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Himitsu

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#27  Edited By Himitsu

@phantomrant: I agree. If he is in base, team Naruto might win.

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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@himitsu: @marc_55: my point is Naruto has no way to put down Yhwach or Yamamoto once they use Yamamoto's bankai. With no prior knowledge of each other Naruto wouldnt blitz right out the gate. Also if thats the argument you want to take I can do the same thing with the bleach characters. Yamamoto and Yhach go Bankai instantly and instantly vaporize the Naruto team and Jugram due to the fact there is 2 suns standing next to them. Anything that Naruto would try and do is countered by Yhwach reaching into the future and countering it in any way that he chooses.

Honestly how do you propose Naruto team could survive temperatures as high as the core of the sun? How is the Naruto team going to kill 10 TRILLION flame zombies. How is the Naruto team going to even hurt Yhwach? Any ability that he knows of can not hurt him and he can then replicate.

For a point of reference Ichigo in his ultimate Vastolorde/Qunicy/ Soul reaper form with the strongest zanpakuto ever confronted Yhwach and Yhwach reaised his power was so great so he simply went into the future and broke his zanpakuto and broke off his hollow mask before ichigo could even react. It was so anticlimactic think if Naruto went sage of six paths but then suddenly all the tailed beasts and their powers get killed off inexplicably, His hands cut off,and mouth sealed reverting him to base. That is what Yhwach can do on a WHIM. There is no way to counter it. The only way he was defeated was when aizens KS was shattered and went haywire so that they essentially got lucky with the best possible outcome.

TLDR How does Naruto stop reality warping, Future manipulation, be able to hurt the sun/survive it, kill 10 trillion super flame zombies, all without being able to do anything at all. The moment this starts Yhwach knows how strong Naruto is so he just reaches into the future and removes all paths to victory as stated above. Even if there was no chance of him winning in all the infinite possibilities he can alter the future so that every possible outcome results in a win. His HAX are to powerful.

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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@sophia89: How? Why? do you even know about the Bleach characters?

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Marc_55

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@solomonthenotsowise: You might not get me, Naruto holds an extreme stat advantage. He'll be blitzing by default, and anything he uses can one shot. So, likely, he'll blitz and one shot.

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Himitsu

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Marc_55

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@sophia89: Funnily enough, I used to do the same. I'll keep it in mind for the future.

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BubbleBass

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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@himitsu: @marc_55: Naruto doesnt have a stat advantage there is no way around Yhwach's HAX he has no way to even begin to try and blitz. Naruto isnt capable of oneshoting Yamamoto or Yhwach either. How can naruto damage the core of the sun?? The naruto team would be burned away into nothing and there is no way they could counter attack or put up a fight. This isnt a slight win for the bleach team this is a stomp.

Please anyone tell me how do you propose that the Naruto team can win? Saying blitz and oneshot is not a valid argument here. These bleach characters and Naruto character have very similar speed feats . There is no way to get around the HAX and no way to even remotely begin surviveing the 27 million degrees F that they would be exposed to. Seriously what do you think would happen if this fight took place in the core of the sun?? If this battle were to take place on a destructible planet there would be nothing left just Yhwach and Yamamoto strolling about in space.

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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@sophia89: Well thats rude. I am not an alt account ive been on the vine for over 2 years on and off participated in a few tournaments nearly won one until getting crushed by beatboks in the finals.

How do you propose that the Naruto team wins? I have no problem changing my viewpoint If I am wrong because in the future I can back the other side. The best feats I have of Naruto put him supersonic+ that can be matched by Yhwach most certianly and Yamamoto can at least keep up. Besides that speed wont even mater due to Yhwach's HAX.

Honestly instead of writing me off why dont you try formulating an argument. and see what stack up.

If you can prove to me that Naruto can get his way around the hax, around the heat from Yamamoto's bankai, and kill 10 trillion fire zombies than I will cede this victory to you.

At a minimum propose the feats that the bleach team would have to beat to stand a chance and I will do my best to supply those feats.

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Marc_55

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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@marc_55: Prove me wrong. Naruto moves at about 1/3rd the speed of light aka the speed of lightning.

Bleach speed feats Yhwach with the fastest in the series as well. Bleach Speed Feats.

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Marc_55

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@solomonthenotsowise: You must be joking. KCM Naruto from The War was faster than Lightning. You have the nerve to link that wankfest as evidence? We're done here.

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Vertigo-

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Team Naruto handily.

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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@marc_55: :/ all I am asking for is feats. I am asking for proof to back up your argument but you feel the need to brush me off because I am trying to back up my argument?

If you are correct In how Naruto would win than please prove it! I would love to add the feats for them to my power scale. Instead of getting offended and storming off why dont you defend your point of view.

Forget about what the Bleach characters can do. Why does the Naruto team win? What overwhelming feats do they have that the Bleach team has to try and overcome?

I am going to sit here and lie to and say i have read all of the Naruto Manga however I have read all of Bleach. That is why if you can prove to me that the Naruto team wins with feats I will have no problem backing down and admitting the victor.

Im not trying to sling S*&# all over the place here I want to actually know who is better and why. My CURRENT viewpoint is one that backs the Bleach team.

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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@blackestnight93: At the risk of continuing to punch myself in the face... How/Why? What feats do they have that put them over the top?

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Vertigo-

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@solomonthenotsowise: Jugo is a non-factor, he can't handle Naruto's DC. Yama won't go bankai off the bat since he's in character, so he gets taken out via blitz by Naruto as well. Bach gets blown to pieces by Naruto, who outstats him everywhere.

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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@blackestnight93: Feats? How does he kill Yhwach? Naruto doesnt start off in his max form either as he is in character. Yama busted out his bankai very quickly against Yhwach.

What are Naruto's stats?

Edit: what is Naruto's DC?

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Vertigo-

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@solomonthenotsowise: Naruto uses a mantle more often then not while fighting, even in his more recent appearances IIRC. He doesn't need six paths to outspeed Bach

In regards to Naruto's stats, his DC is somewhere north of island level (I'm kinda bad at calculating that kind of thing, I leave it to better minds), durability is moon level I'm pretty sure, speed is north of lightning (pretty sure he has a light speed feat to his name)

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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@blackestnight93: Have you seen This or This? these feats put Yhwach above FTL as well.

What is his mantle?

What does DC stand for? every time I search it I get DC comics :(

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Vertigo-

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@solomonthenotsowise: I disregard fan calcs tbh, never even bothered to look more then a glance at the second link. as for your first link, I don't agree with it.

In regards to your second point, a mantle for Naruto would be something like KCM (Kyuubi chakra mode), Tailed beast mode, or six paths senjutsu mode. I just call them mantles

In regards to your third point, I believe it stands for "damage calculation".

fun fact: DC Comics is a funny misnomer, since DC actually stands for "detective comics". So, by saying "DC comics, you're saying "Detective comics comics"

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SolomonTheNotSoWise

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@blackestnight93: Thanks for clearing that up.

By that same logic then I could argue Naruto isnt FTL and in that case there would certianly be no blitzing Yhwach or Yama.