YHVH (SMT) Vs Gilgamesh( fate CCC)

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NoMight109

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I should stop making gilgamesh battles.

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CaoCao

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vibecheckfailed

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NoMight109

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zgtfreak

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How does Y's death manipulation work? Does he have to hit Gilgamesh? Or is it some passive effect?

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CaoCao

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#6  Edited By CaoCao

@zgtfreak said:

How does Y's death manipulation work? Does he have to hit Gilgamesh? Or is it some passive effect?

It has to hit him. God his words creates energy waves that kills his opponent by contact, even with resistance or good durability. It also bypass evading.

His words are commands, which allows him different actions. One word and he regenerate complete, or steal all of his opponent life and magical energy, or debuffs his enemy or take away any kind of negative stats from himself, etc.

He was an annoying Boss in SMT.

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Lsoon23

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jDemons that are an infinitesimally small fragment of even a weakened YHVH are capable of maintaining concepts like time even in literal universal voids that consume concepts, laws and ideas; he has superiority over beings that influence over fate that binds even demons that exist beyond time and space and YHVH virtually sees everything below him as pure data. Irrelevant. The Voice of God is virtually YHVH adminsitering his absolute dominant will, it bypasses all evasion, durability, resistances, regeneration and can affect beings of pure nothingness; and he can also regenerate from literal nonexistence across all time. All of creation is apart of him, and he is omnipresent across all timelines. YHVH should win, an attack which bypasses all casuality, conceptual, fate and probability should be too much for Gilgamesh to handle.

And this is just a single fragment of YHVH, his most powerful form is made of up of an INFINITE number of him; and he exists in a higher dimensional place known as the YHVH-space which is ninth dimensional, existing beyond the Amala network and the 4 brane layers and throne layer.

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etriel

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#8  Edited By etriel

So YHVH is a Concept Physics Tier C, with Idea/Void manip. intriguing.

Wonder what Gil's counter to that is.

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zgtfreak

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@lsoon23: I'll read this in a bit and post my thoughts.

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Phantasial

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Goldie has no answer to that kind of hax. unless this is a contest of blitz. if goldie tries to take one in then he's dead

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SagaTheLegend

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#18  Edited By SagaTheLegend

YHWH stomps. He has much highter AP than Gilgamesh and Gil has no hax that would trouble to YHWH. Even SMT 2 YHWH, in his weakest incarnation would one shot Gil like fodder as he did with Lucifer.

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NoMight109

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Guzmania

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I believe YHVH got this

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zgtfreak

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#21  Edited By zgtfreak

Gil isn't going to tank a hit due to SNI. And I don't see YHVH having a counter for Enuma Elish, since it bypassed BB's causality, conceptual, and conceptual law and fate manipulation. YHVH's magical drain gets countered by Damkina continuously refilling Gil's mana. Infinite copies of himself is nothing new to Gil since BB has infinite copies of herself across space-time and he still dealt with her.

or debuffs his enemy or take away any kind of negative stats from himself

BB already did this with the Holy Grail and Gil still defeated her.

Not an easy battle, but I think Gil wins for now.

It has to hit him. God his words creates energy waves that kills his opponent by contact, even with resistance or good durability. It also bypass evading.

Edit: I didn't see the bypass evading part. That's a lot of trouble for him then. I can see him meeting it head on with Enuma Elish though.

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Phantasial

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it's a tricky battle tbh. could go either way

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zgtfreak

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#23  Edited By zgtfreak

@phantasial: Actually... you'll think YHVH stomps because he is multiversal (I assume you didn't know) and you think CCC Gil is like donut level or something. So yeah...

As for me, I can see Gil barely edging out that undodgeable insta kill attack via Enuma Elish maybe.

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Phantasial

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@zgtfreak said:

@phantasial: Actually... you'll think YHVH stomps because he is multiversal (I assume you didn't know) and you think CCC Gil is like donut level or something. So yeah...

As for me, I can see Gil barely edging out that undodgeable insta kill attack via Enuma Elish maybe.

I do think Goldie is multiversal (mind you) via EA. split stats are a thing after all. heck, buddha is a heroic spirit whom was stated to be universal and gilgamesh is stronger than him, so...

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SagaTheLegend

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@zgtfreak: Yeah except each copy of YHWH is far superior to countless multiversal busters who can manipulate and destroys multiverses and its concepts. The strongest demon lord, Lucifer is just a discarded part of his being and was one shot easily by him in Megami Tensei II. I dont think Gil can survive the AP difference between them, and we are not even talking about his full form, which is infinitely highter than everything I said before.

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zgtfreak

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#26  Edited By zgtfreak

@sagathelegend: Pretty sure YHVH at full power scales to the same cosmology size and type as Gil, aka an 8-D to 9-D cosmology where each higher dimension treats the lower as non-existent/views it as fiction. They seem to have the same AP, unless I am missing something... And outside of his 1 unavoidable durability negating attack, I don't think his other hax are much of a problem as far as I know.

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etriel

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#27  Edited By etriel

@lsoon23: @sagathelegend:

Can you please describe your scaling like this:

YHVH > Avatars > Multiversal Beings > Baseline Multiversal

Or something, this stuff confuses me. And give me exact adjectives used for the characters in question in regards to being more powerful for each of your scaling formulas.

Infinitely More =/= More Powerful. One shotting Multiversals also doesn't make you Aleph > 0, above those Multiversals necessarily.

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SagaTheLegend

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#29  Edited By SagaTheLegend

@zgtfreak: Except Gil has only feats of Multiversal level, beating BB and the Reality Marble feat. While YHWH (who created the Amala Multiverse and possible other Multiverses as well) at his weakest form has shown to be able to one shotting people like Lucifer who is far superior to Kagutsuchi who collapsed the infinite Amala multiverse at his deathbed. From my perspective feats> dimensional tiering in this case. Even if we consider dimensions, YHWH still has showcased better feats and scalling, so I dont seem Gil having the upper hand here.

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etriel

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#30  Edited By etriel

@sagathelegend said:

@zgtfreak: Except Gil has only feats of Multiversal level, beating BB and the Reality Marble feat. While YHWH (who created the Amala Multiverse ans possible other multiverses as well) at his weakest form has shown to be able to one shotting people like Lucifer who is far superior to Kagutsuchi who collapsed the infinite Amala multiverse at his deathbed. From my perspective feats> dimensional tiering in this case. Even if we consider dimensions, YHWH still has showcased better feats and scalling.

Perspective Feats do not > Dimensional Tiering inherently, it in fact depends. You can one-shot Multiverals without being Infinitely more powerful than them.

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SagaTheLegend

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@etriel: Why is Aleph Null relevant I dont understand. It is just simple scalling, he one shot Multiversal beings, so he is stronger than them, it is as simple as that.

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etriel

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#32  Edited By etriel

@sagathelegend said:

@etriel: Why is Aleph Null relevant I dont understand. It is just simple scalling, he one shot Multiversal beings, so he is stronger than them, it is as simple as that.

Aleph Null is the lowest level of Infinity. The next level of Infinity is Aleph 1, which is to Aleph Null like Aleph Null is to literal 0.

Around here, when you say Multiversal (baseline) we assume you are Aleph Null.

But If you are oneshotting Aleph Null beings, that does not make you Aleph 1, it can be interpreted as just being unquantifiably more powerful than Aleph Null.

Unless the relationship is that they cannot interact, like how Gilgamesh is, you cannot really argue this.

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SagaTheLegend

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#33  Edited By SagaTheLegend

@etriel: I know what Aleph Null means (althought I think it should refer to infinite sized universes to be more accurate). Base YHWH is just stronger than him. His true form is described as living in a realm "infinitely highter and more vague" than before and that only refers to the first layer on that plane, it has other highter, superior layers as well. I am just doing basic scalling here, YHWH has better multiversal feats and scalling, being far above people who are also far above other multiversal busters. So by feats YHWH is stronger than Gil, it is as simple as that.

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etriel

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#34  Edited By etriel

@sagathelegend:

You are throwing this stuff, that I cannot coherently connect to properly understand.

You speak of higher layers, you do not tell me where it is structured, where is the lowest layer, how many of them and which of these numbered layers are the beings he is more powerful than at.

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SagaTheLegend

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#35  Edited By SagaTheLegend

@etriel: Well it is like this. There is the baseline infinite Amala Multiverse/Universe (It is called Universe but it is an infinite real that contains infinite parallel worlds). There is at least one version of YHVH in each universe. YHWH is responsible for creating the Amala Multiverse (and possibly others, since there are other infinite multiverses outside of the Amala as well) and even at that form he is the strongest being in all creation (before SMT IV at least), being able to one shot beings like Lucifer (the strongest Demon Lord with ease)

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Lucifer is far superior to Kagutsuchi, a being which controls, destroys and creates billions of universes per second. His death caused the collapsed of all of time in one of Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne's endings, destroying the Amala Multiverse. Kagutsuchi is just a mid tier who was defeated by Demi-Fiend.

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This is just his avatar (which has infinite copies).

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Now to his true form in his realm:

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His universe is described as more vague and infinite than any place the protagonist has ever been, so this is a dimension infintely highter than the Amala Multiverse. That only refers to the 1st Brane of that realm. It has up to Four Highter Branes, which the main character has to cross to reach YHVH's throne. Each of them is a highter plane of existence

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As you can see in 1st Brane you have get to a highter plane of existence. You repeat this in every brane until you reach the Fourth Brane which is where YHVH's throne is located. Since he is 5d Multiversal by the logic here, his true form would have 9 dimensions. Gil is only 8d so he trumps Gil in feats and dimensionality.

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Lsoon23

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#36  Edited By Lsoon23

@zgtfreak said:

@sagathelegend: Pretty sure YHVH at full power scales to the same cosmology size and type as Gil, aka an 8-D to 9-D cosmology where each higher dimension treats the lower as non-existent/views it as fiction. They seem to have the same AP, unless I am missing something... And outside of his 1 unavoidable durability negating attack, I don't think his other hax are much of a problem as far as I know.

Yep, pretty much, but instead of viewing it as fiction for SMT they're viewed as nothing more than data (and this includes concepts, thoughts, laws and ideas). YHVH in his weakened form holds demons like Lucifer, who is the personification of light and dark, and Satan who can straight up conceptually destroy the expanse which is a conceputal plain of being created by the thoughts of humanity. Then you have his Full Form which is infinitely stronger.

To put it into perspective, (i'll tag @etriel now as this is also directed at him)

>>>>>>= Pretty much can't be quantified, so ridiculously above that

>>= Infinite power gap

>non-infinite power gap

It goes

The Great Will, possibly TDE Demifiend depending on who you ask(some people assume when they refer to 'God' in SMT nocturne they refer to the Great Will)>>>>>>Demonized YHVH=Full Form YHVH= Creator Nanashi>>One YHVH head>>Satan>Lucifer/Demi-Fiend/most other SMT protags>Metatron/Demiurge>Infinite Multiversals like Kagutsuchi>Baseline Multiversals and ETC.

that's pretty much off the top of my head, I forgot some like Mem Aleph but w/e

But to my knowledge both YHVH and Gil are 9D, I'll have to look at Gil's scaling again but I think YHVH has higher AP, or at least he should.

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SagaTheLegend

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#37  Edited By SagaTheLegend

@lsoon23: Is Gil 9d or 8d? I am confused here. His respect thread only speaks of Eight Dimensions from what I've read.

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Lsoon23

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#38  Edited By Lsoon23

@sagathelegend said:

@lsoon23: Is Gil 9d or 8d, I am confused here. His respect thread only speaks of Eight Dimensions from what I've read.

@zgtfreak would know the exact scaling, I believe it can be either depending on what you argue.

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SagaTheLegend

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#39  Edited By SagaTheLegend

@lsoon23: Also I did a comment showing YHVH Dimension Tiering to see if it helps people, but I am bad at formatting so I will try to fix it to make it more readable.

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SagaTheLegend

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#40  Edited By SagaTheLegend

@lsoon23: If there is anything more worth mentioning here tell me since I may be forgetting something.

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SagaTheLegend

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@etriel: Well then, I think it is done now. The explanation is above.

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etriel

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#42  Edited By etriel
@lsoon23 said:
@sagathelegend said:

@lsoon23: Is Gil 9d or 8d, I am confused here. His respect thread only speaks of Eight Dimensions from what I've read.

@zgtfreak would know the exact scaling, I believe it can be either depending on what you argue.

I mean it depends.

The Far Side of the Moon is a Higher Dimensional, Imagination Space that can contain "Imaginary Numbers" whatever the hell that means, it could mean even any level of Cardinality depending on how you interpret it.

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SagaTheLegend

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#43  Edited By SagaTheLegend

@etriel: Well being that vague it is hard to say which dimensionality then. Knowing that I say that YHVH wins via feats and more conclusive dimensionality I would say.

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SagaTheLegend

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Well it seems it goes like this, YHVH one shots Gil then go on to solo the entire Nasuverse.

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NoMight109

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Anyone else?

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SagaTheLegend

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#47  Edited By zgtfreak

@lsoon23: 8-D, but could be bumped an extra level since Mara's universe is conceptually infinite, and the Moon Cell would have infinite timelines of her universe. Gilgamesh also has higher AP than at least 5 people on the same dimensional level as him.

@sagathelegend said:

Well it seems it goes like this, YHVH one shots Gil then go on to solo the entire Nasuverse.

The last thing YHVH is doing is soloing the Nasuverse even if he can beat Gil. CCC Gil is only a mid god-tier.

OT: My vote is inconclusive for now. I'll read up on more YHVH soon. Good battle though.

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SagaTheLegend

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#48  Edited By SagaTheLegend

@zgtfreak: Just joking man, I don't know that much about Nasuverse to talk, I am just a casual Fate fan. Also YHWH's demonized weakened form still fought the protagonist and his gang, his full form is stronger than that. By AP I still think YHWH eclipses Gil, but Enuma Elish might do something so I will check exactly what it does to see if YHWH has the resistances against it.

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SagaTheLegend

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@zgtfreak: Well that could be good if proven but I don't think it would get Gil to 9d, that could be very well in the realm of the 6th of 7th dimension or something like that, there is nothing indicating it adds a highter dimension (Althought I don't like bringing dimensionality up like this). I've also only seen mentions of 8 dimensions so far, so a 9th is extremely doubtful.

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MrBallins

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@phantasial: >heck, buddha is a heroic spirit whom was stated to be universal and gilgamesh is stronger than him, so...

Isn't Gilgamesh weaker than Saver? As I recall in all routes we nearly fail to beat Kiara even with the Origin Code until BB and the Alter Egos disrupt her, so Saver should be fairly above our Servants