Xeno Goku vs Manga Team

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zgtfreak

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#101  Edited By zgtfreak

@thedeathstar: You debated Nasuverse when you said universal DBS fodder beats 8D to 9D (uses dimensional tierring) infinite multiversal Fate/Extra CCC god tiers; you've also gotten wrecked in Saint Seiya (and if I remember correctly, Sailor Moon) threads as well. I also debunked infinite multiverse and dimensional tierring existing in DBH in my previous comments. I mentioned previous threads to point out your massive bias wanking.

There is nothing left to debunk. Demigra couldn't even tank his own timeline busting attack and had to hide. Team 2 MURDERSTOMPS

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TheDeathstar

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#102  Edited By TheDeathstar

@zgtfreak said:

@thedeathstar: You debated Nasuverse when you said universal DBS fodder beats 8D to 9D infinite multiversal Fate/Extra CCC god tiers; you've also gotten wrecked in Saint Seiya (and if I remember correctly, Sailor Moon) threads as well. I also debunked infinite multiverse and dimensional tierring existing in DBH in my previous comments.

What? also Fate verse 8D, 9D lmao ok. You didn't debunk anything don't be delusional. You can have a CaV with @arcreactor with any of these mentioned here go. You will know how stupid you sound right now.

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U_WOT_M8

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@zgtfreak said:

@thedeathstar: You debated Nasuverse when you said universal DBS fodder beats 8D to 9D (uses dimensional tierring) infinite multiversal Fate/Extra CCC god tiers; you've also gotten wrecked in Saint Seiya (and if I remember correctly, Sailor Moon) threads as well. I also debunked infinite multiverse and dimensional tierring existing in DBH in my previous comments.

Not really, it's impossible to debunk since Beat reality is above the DBH game, and the DBH game is a multiverse itself

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TheDeathstar

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@zgtfreak:

1. We see virtually all DB characters and stories present in DBH. From DB/Z/GT/Super anime and manga, movies, specials, games only characters, and events portrayed as existing through many timelines. In fact we even already accepted things like DBO being part of Xenoverese based on this same premise alone, since it has the time breakers, time patrol and multiple story elements that cross from DBO to Xenoverse.

https://imgur.com/a/TtcRD

2. In the DBH manga it is confirmed that all DB lore is a part of the DBH world, which is considered fiction in the real world in DBH like in our own world. They literally are shown playing DBH UMX on 3DS, and said to be treated like they are watching the events just like us.

https://imgur.com/a/D9o2t

https://imgur.com/gallery/znxtw

3. We have very specific examples of many DB games and spin offs existing in the DBH world further strengthening the proof that it can all be applied to DBH.

Of course we all have seen the DB/Z/GT/Super guys present with their stories. So unless you want to see more proof on them I will not need to post scans for that.

Dragon Ball 4D with God Broly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhjd1i6Zuk0

Dragon Ball Minus and other stuff

https://youtu.be/vl-TA84ijHg?t=83

https://imgur.com/a/Xi3O1

Dragon Ball Z Extreme Butoden (DBHUM2 is referring to SSJ4 Broly crossing from DBH to DBZEB)

https://imgur.com/a/ZYA6x

Dragon Ball Fusions

https://imgur.com/a/PpK21

Kuriza in DBH

https://imgur.com/a/k7Lqm

Neko Majin Z

https://youtu.be/8AqumRLIUdk?t=409

Dokkan in Xenoverse in Heroes

https://imgur.com/a/iDEfv

DBS Manga and Yamcha reincarnation spin off in DBH

https://imgur.com/a/FbHyp

DB Fighter Z part of Xenoverse which is part of heroes and Dokkan

https://imgur.com/a/QXPel

Limit Break x Survivor singer (one who sings the DBS theme)

https://imgur.com/a/yoRgG

https://r3---sn-vgqsrnes.googlevideo.com/videoplayback?id=7f8bab53792aca2b&itag=22&source=picasa&begin=0&requiressl=yes&pl=19&sc=yes&ei=IudCWve4CM3T-QW-34rACg&app=fife&mime=video/mp4&cnr=14&lmt=1510446932143037&ip=76.11.71.67&ipbits=8&expire=1514341186&sparams=app,cnr,ei,expire,id,ip,ipbits,itag,lmt,mime,mm,mn,ms,mv,pl,requiressl,sc,source&signature=23DBA51B069DD56831C9CED1158FD77B1CC4B200.644D1494C4C931F096794C5597A864707E6D22F6&key=cms1&cpn=vJlyUNdW0XCVScf8&c=WEB_EMBEDDED_PLAYER&cver=20171218&redirect_counter=1&cm2rm=sn-ab5eee7s&fexp=9462453&req_id=d62be6eebd7ba3ee&cms_redirect=yes&mm=34&mn=sn-vgqsrnes&ms=ltu&mt=1514333905&mv=m

Shin Budokai implied part of it (Babidi Buu is directly taken from Shin Budokai)

https://imgur.com/a/fZPzY

So, as you can see, we literally have over a dozen different DB shows, manga’s, games/specials or spin offs directly being shown as part of DBH verse, and the implication that all DB lore is part of the DBH verse through the real world being just like our own, even referencing specific games and systems like DBH UMX on 3DS.

I believe this is significant proof that we can consider all the games etc as part of DBH multiverse.

Now for the second part of this, I would like to discuss a specific addition to the cosmology that is seen through the DB series. This is the amount of timelines in the DBH multiverse. I believe there is multiple things that prove it has infinite timelines. Following with the fact we should be able to use statements from any of the games and not strictly DBH only these become very important. We already know that many timelines are made over even the smallest changes so I will not repeat these things unless they are needed. I will get right into the infinite timelines statements.

1. It is directly stated in Dragon Ball Shin Budokai that there are "endless worlds" referring to timelines. This would be infinite timelines as endless is considered infinite.

https://imgur.com/J9flgps

2. In DB fusions when fighting ultra Pinich, there is an infinite number of friezas and cells that can re spawn from endless timelines no matter how many you kill. It states they come from time space holes which each link to alternate timelines. We have actually seen Cell use these before as well. Same with Goku black and Zamasu when fighting against fusion Zamasu. This would imply infinite versions and infinite timelines due to there being literally an endless amount of them.

https://imgur.com/a/FObWc

https://youtu.be/01N4ccVitJE?t=989

3. We already know there are infinite possibilities for timelines in DBX as stated by a patroller. And that "all sorts" of these possibilities in DBH actually exist already as stated and shown. So it further shows that infinite timelines is already plausible, even if you don't outright agree this alone is showing that the infinite ones already all exist since "all sorts" can be interpreted as all possible types of timelines.

https://imgur.com/a/Q6w5g

So there are multiple pieces of evidence that there are infinite timelines in DBH multiverse from multiple sources, scaling from the other series that are part of it.

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zgtfreak

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#105  Edited By zgtfreak

@u_wot_m8: I don't see feats or statements of Beat having absolute control over DBH reality and being able to destroy it on a whim. If Demigra is 5D because he can exist outside of time, then why did he need to go to that place to survive his timeline busting attack? Simple. There is no dimensional tierring in DBH. There is also nothing that shows the DBS multiverse is infinite (outside of the statements I debunked earlier).

@thedeathstar Just stop. I'm pretty sure there isn't a single thread where you admit DB loses.

EDIT: I'll read your copy paste message in a sec.

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TheDeathstar

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#106  Edited By TheDeathstar

@zgtfreak said:

@u_wot_m8: I don't see feats or statements of Beat having absolute control over DBH reality and being able to destroy it on a whim. If Demigra is 5D because he can exist outside of time, then why did he need to go to that place to survive his timeline busting attack? Simple. There is no dimensional tierring in DBH. There is also nothing that shows the DBS multiverse is infinite (outside of the statements I debunked earlier).

@thedeathstar Just stop. I'm pretty sure there isn't a single thread where you admit DB loses.

EDIT: I'll read your copy paste message in a sec.

Doesn't matter does it the evidence is there and you have nothing to say on it except your self-made image that they don't have it lmao.

Tag me when you have a decent response to it, not even vs battle staff could debunk this, these same Seiya fans use their calculation you are siding with.

If you were my follower then there are multiple times I admitted Goku loses and you would know. I am glad I don't have you in my vine following list.

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GokuAndSuperman

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#107  Edited By GokuAndSuperman

@zgtfreak: Where is the evidence of you slaughtering SSJRyu? All I read is a statement please show me the feat pls ?.

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zgtfreak

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#109  Edited By zgtfreak

@thedeathstar:

"1. We see virtually all DB characters and stories present in DBH. From DB/Z/GT/Super anime and manga, movies, specials, games only characters, and events portrayed as existing through many timelines. In fact we even already accepted things like DBO being part of Xenoverese based on this same premise alone, since it has the time breakers, time patrol and multiple story elements that cross from DBO to Xenoverse.

https://imgur.com/a/TtcRD "

And?

"2. In the DBH manga it is confirmed that all DB lore is a part of the DBH world, which is considered fiction in the real world in DBH like in our own world. They literally are shown playing DBH UMX on 3DS, and said to be treated like they are watching the events just like us.

https://imgur.com/a/D9o2t

https://imgur.com/gallery/znxtw "

They can interact with the DBH world via a video game, they do not stand atop the DBH "multiverse" or reality.

"3. We have very specific examples of many DB games and spin offs existing in the DBH world further strengthening the proof that it can all be applied to DBH.

Of course we all have seen the DB/Z/GT/Super guys present with their stories. So unless you want to see more proof on them I will not need to post scans for that.

Dragon Ball 4D with God Broly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhjd1i6Zuk0

Dragon Ball Minus and other stuff

https://youtu.be/vl-TA84ijHg?t=83

https://imgur.com/a/Xi3O1 "

None of this is 4D or multiversal from what I see. If the text says something, I can't read Japanese.

"Dragon Ball Z Extreme Butoden (DBHUM2 is referring to SSJ4 Broly crossing from DBH to DBZEB)

https://imgur.com/a/ZYA6x "

Crossing timelines speaks nothing of multiversal power.

"Dragon Ball Fusions

https://imgur.com/a/PpK21

Kuriza in DBH

https://imgur.com/a/k7Lqm

Neko Majin Z

https://youtu.be/8AqumRLIUdk?t=409

Dokkan in Xenoverse in Heroes

https://imgur.com/a/iDEfv

DBS Manga and Yamcha reincarnation spin off in DBH

https://imgur.com/a/FbHyp

DB Fighter Z part of Xenoverse which is part of heroes and Dokkan

https://imgur.com/a/QXPel

Limit Break x Survivor singer (one who sings the DBS theme)

https://imgur.com/a/yoRgG "

None of this proves DBH has an infinite multiverse.

https://r3---sn-vgqsrnes.googlevideo.com/videoplayback?id=7f8bab53792aca2b&itag=22&source=picasa&begin=0&requiressl=yes&pl=19&sc=yes&ei=IudCWve4CM3T-QW-34rACg&app=fife&mime=video/mp4&cnr=14&lmt=1510446932143037&ip=76.11.71.67&ipbits=8&expire=1514341186&sparams=app,cnr,ei,expire,id,ip,ipbits,itag,lmt,mime,mm,mn,ms,mv,pl,requiressl,sc,source&signature=23DBA51B069DD56831C9CED1158FD77B1CC4B200.644D1494C4C931F096794C5597A864707E6D22F6&key=cms1&cpn=vJlyUNdW0XCVScf8&c=WEB_EMBEDDED_PLAYER&cver=20171218&redirect_counter=1&cm2rm=sn-ab5eee7s&fexp=9462453&req_id=d62be6eebd7ba3ee&cms_redirect=yes&mm=34&mn=sn-vgqsrnes&ms=ltu&mt=1514333905&mv=m

This link is a blank page.

"Shin Budokai implied part of it (Babidi Buu is directly taken from Shin Budokai)

https://imgur.com/a/fZPzY

So, as you can see, we literally have over a dozen different DB shows, manga’s, games/specials or spin offs directly being shown as part of DBH verse, and the implication that all DB lore is part of the DBH verse through the real world being just like our own, even referencing specific games and systems like DBH UMX on 3DS.

I believe this is significant proof that we can consider all the games etc as part of DBH multiverse.

Now for the second part of this, I would like to discuss a specific addition to the cosmology that is seen through the DB series. This is the amount of timelines in the DBH multiverse. I believe there is multiple things that prove it has infinite timelines. Following with the fact we should be able to use statements from any of the games and not strictly DBH only these become very important. We already know that many timelines are made over even the smallest changes so I will not repeat these things unless they are needed. I will get right into the infinite timelines statements.

1. It is directly stated in Dragon Ball Shin Budokai that there are "endless worlds" referring to timelines. This would be infinite timelines as endless is considered infinite.

https://imgur.com/J9flgps "

I debunked this already. Cell is not omniscient and has shown no feats or statements of being able to see how many timelines there really are.

"2. In DB fusions when fighting ultra Pinich, there is an infinite number of friezas and cells that can re spawn from endless timelines no matter how many you kill. It states they come from time space holes which each link to alternate timelines. We have actually seen Cell use these before as well. Same with Goku black and Zamasu when fighting against fusion Zamasu. This would imply infinite versions and infinite timelines due to there being literally an endless amount of them.

https://imgur.com/a/FObWc

https://youtu.be/01N4ccVitJE?t=989 "

I already debunked this too; nice copy paste. There is no mentioning of infinite, just that there are A LOT of them.

"3. We already know there are infinite possibilities for timelines in DBX as stated by a patroller. And that "all sorts" of these possibilities in DBH actually exist already as stated and shown. So it further shows that infinite timelines is already plausible, even if you don't outright agree this alone is showing that the infinite ones already all exist since "all sorts" can be interpreted as all possible types of timelines.

https://imgur.com/a/Q6w5g "

The timelines aren't infinite as more are being created with each change. "All sorts of possibilities are overflowing" does not even remotely translate to infinite. Once again, I ALREADY DEBUNKED THIS on this VERY same thread.

"So there are multiple pieces of evidence that there are infinite timelines in DBH multiverse from multiple sources, scaling from the other series that are part of it."

No.

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Thedarkpaladin

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#110  Edited By Thedarkpaladin

@u_wot_m8:

My goodness, playing dodge ball with my question. Apparently it's hard for you to answer, this is your logic being used on other character who are in similar situation.

Hmm, so you still continue to avoid my first question, yet complain that I haven't answered one about a character with no relevance to the topic at hand. More of that glaring hypocrisy rearing its head, eh?

He controls space and time with it, it's his power now to decide what to do with it and he did by throwing timelines and such at others, doesn't matter how he does it at this point, either with sheer power or hax.

He's controlling space-time with Toki Toki's hax. He can't just destroy the multiverse by firing off some energy attack. If so, you could potentially make an argument for scaling Xeno Goku to that. Until then, you're applying an extremely flawed method of scaling by attempting to correlate Demigra's hax to Goku's raw power.

If he is as power as that then yes, the others however are nobodies.

You don't know anything about the other members of the team or Xeno Goku for that matter. Why should you be taken seriously again? If Xeno Goku can really dish out high multiversal attacks, can keep up speed wise or resist some of their hax, he would defeat the rest of them. So far however, that hasn't been proven.

Why do I need to point it out when you are literally bringing it up in every reply you give -.- you blind or something ?

Because I haven't said that once in any of my replies. You can read, right?

Hey pointing out your debating style and how you just hump the feat argument, but I am repeating myself her Mr Cena

The debating style that has continuously shut anything you bring to the table down. Not something to take pleasure in, since you're not exactly a debater yourself, but just pointing it out all the same.

Right -.- coming from the guy who needed to mods because his brittle feelings was getting hurt lol sure, keep convincing yourself that.

It's not my fault you can't control that temper of yours, young one. Why risk getting in trouble by resorting to kindergarten tactics when there's a simple solution that only involves you getting in trouble and me no longer having my notifications flooded with your balderdash? :)

Lol someone is a bit edgy, did I hit a feeling before ?

...I don't think you know what edgy is. Lol

Atomic destruction was something Trunks did upon Frieza in reducing him to atoms, and speed feats well, pretty sure Xeno Goku has speed feats that are mighty impressive once I look into it. Seriously atomic destruction on multiverse guys, someone shoot me

And here comes the part where yet another DB fan can't differentiate between atomic destruction and atomization. Color me surprised. What Trunks did was reduce a matter (Freeza) to smaller constituent units. He isn't bypassing external durability in order to do this, but rather, overcoming it. Seiya's attacks directly target the atoms themselves and destroy them - bypassing material durability in the process. "Xeno Goku has good speed feats guys. Just let me look at some more respect threads to find them". Laughable. All you're doing is further demonstrating your ignorance on the character you were so sure wins this match. Lol

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zgtfreak

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#111  Edited By zgtfreak

@thedarkpaladin said:

@u_wot_m8:

Atomic destruction was something Trunks did upon Frieza in reducing him to atoms, and speed feats well, pretty sure Xeno Goku has speed feats that are mighty impressive once I look into it. Seriously atomic destruction on multiverse guys, someone shoot me

And here comes the part where yet another DB fan can't differentiate between atomic destruction and atomization. Color me surprised. What Trunks did was reduce a matter (Freeza) to smaller constituent units. He isn't bypassing external durability in order to do this, but rather, overcoming it. Seiya's attacks directly target the atoms themselves and destroy them - bypassing material durability in the process. "Xeno Goku has good speed feats guys. Just let me look at some more respect threads to find them". Laughable. All you're doing is further demonstrating your ignorance on the character you were so sure wins this match. Lol

Goku has a few thousands of times FTL speed at best going off Beerus and Dyspo. Whis traveled across the universe via his staff, which isn't applicable in combat. A few thousands of times FTL is very impressive by itself, but absolute fodder for most universal tiers or higher. Goku gets blitzed here.

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@u_wot_m8:

"Yep I do, because what they do (besides STTGL or whatever) is capable of handling Goku at this stage. And nice rant, and tight leash lol amusing."

Your grammar is quite amusing lol. Bad grammar from a bad debater, makes perfect sense. But back on topic, from the feats you've presented on Xeno Goku, the manga team should be more than capable of squishing him altogether.

"Atomic destruction was something Trunks did upon Frieza in reducing him to atoms, and speed feats well, pretty sure Xeno Goku has speed feats that are mighty impressive once I look into it. Seriously atomic destruction on multiverse guys, someone shoot me"

And here I go debunking this foolish claim again. And you do realize you shot down your own argument of Trunks having Atomic Destruction by saying: 'Trunks did apon Frieza in reducing him to atoms', right? Congradulations dude, you did nothing! And back to what I was saying before, I've debunked DB characters having Atomic Destruction multiple times already, but the sad part is that this can be figured out just by simple careful reading. It's hilarious how this still gets confused with as reducing someone to atoms is massively different from destroying atoms directly.

https://imgur.com/a/ObOjJjV

Also your "Pretty sure" Xeno Goku is faster? You better be able to back that up with evidence dude. Seiya fought faster than a being who unleashed attacks so fast, it traversed through an infinite realm, a dimension consisting of billions of galaxies, and Hell to reach earth. That equates to God Seiya being over Septillion+ times the speed of light.

https://imgur.com/a/OLr49uX

I'm curious. Since your apparently the mighty brain wizard of this post, what gives you the idea that a given Tier suddenly grants a person resistance to a hax?

"She restored everything to the static cosmos, more of a manipulation if anything considering the crystal give them that ability. Is she able to use it in combat ? Because Demigra can use his stuff in combat, throwing timelines and shit, what can she do in combat with that ?"

There's nothing stating she can't use that in combat. But the actual point of that scan was to show she was able to give a large amount of her energy to restore the Static Cosmos through the Crystal. A large amount of energy and power Xeno Goku doesn't seem to be near in terms of his presented showings.

"Plus I am failing to see that in the scan, post some more scan before and after thanks"

The scan described its power. And Usagi literally just used it. That's why the other Sailor Scouts assumed Usagi sacrificed her own self after hearing note of Usagi using that power.

"Zamasu says hello, nothing special their, and Hakai says hello, wiping out intangible beings."

Mhm. Not too sure why Zamasu is being brought up. And Usagi says hello back, wondering what Hakai was supposed to do to her. Usagi's body is the projection of the Universe itself, she'll only come back again if she's erased. Plus, she's resisted having her body erased in the past already:

https://imgur.com/a/ZRb281m

In all honesty, Hakai can easily be overpowered by having an energy level higher than the user proven by Vegeta punching it away. All of the Manga team members, from what I've seen, have resisted and overpowered hax far more powerful than Hakai. Its not a good idea to rely on that solely dude.

"Goku resisted soul hax as shown in the scans before, not to mention Vegeta resisted it with Bibidi as well. And hakai destroys the soul as well and against resisted that, failing to see anything impressive with this hax"

I'm talking about pulling out Goku's soul from his body directly and sealing it on another dimension, not destroying it. Goku has never shown a resistance against that. He's not immune to soul hax entirely.

"All I see is a planet being destroyed, canceling powers on a planet scale or something ? what is even happening their"

She nullified an attack that breached through her defenses. On the top panel, you can see her holding her wand, defending herself and using the hax.

"I legitimately don't see any of what you claim in the scans you show"

For given context, Usagi was at another dimension and she modified reality to retrieve the other sailor scouts back on earth, which was about to be attacked.

"Goku resisted Demigra magic in the scan before, and plus resisting magic is something they did against Bibidi who controlled others as well and made them pop, again big deal -.-"

Please clarify what kind of magic. Also I'm talking about Sailor Moon's magic here, not Demigras. What Goku resisted from Demigra is completely irrelevant here unless its similar to what Usagi does. For example, what's stopping Goku from being turned into a spec of dust by Usagi?

https://imgur.com/a/NX4YAeV

"Helpless -.- oh someone shoot me already"

Yup. And since I don't see any counters, it seem that only 1/4 of Sailor Moon's hax abilities will be needed to swat away Goku here.

"Yeah, failing to see anything multiverse, or anything your claiming to be true with the scans you shown"

Sailor Moon restored the entire Static Cosmos with her power through the Cosmo Crystal. I'm not trying to convince you to see anything. I'm just stating facts.

"I said STTGL wins, the others however are nobodies, you proving sailor whatever is a nobody as well."

No Caption Provided

"Yeah, and your feats suck, some don't even show what you are even claiming lol"

With given context, they do.

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GokuGOAT

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#113  Edited By GokuGOAT

Please stop making us DB fans look bad. Death, GokuAndSuperman Superman fan, and U wot aren’t representing DB debaters. I came here from other site since I been searching Xeno Goku battle threads and made a recent account here. By looking at this thread, lots of you guys are acting as children. Don’t care who started it, but lots of you are lowering to their standards. A Good debater doesn’t change his approach and challenges his opponent straight on. When the opponent launches attacks like insults ignored them since you already got him in your hold. Approaching it like them just makes you like them and automatically no would debate you.

The teams wins due to Xeno Goku being overwhelmed by haxs and such.

@Jman88933: I do remember Vegeta and Trunks moving in crack of time don’t know If that counts as speed feat. This is why came looking towards Xeno Goku threads for more information. And DB suppose debaters in this thread aren’t good sources thats for sure.

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Thedarkpaladin

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@zgtfreak said:
@thedarkpaladin said:

@u_wot_m8:

Atomic destruction was something Trunks did upon Frieza in reducing him to atoms, and speed feats well, pretty sure Xeno Goku has speed feats that are mighty impressive once I look into it. Seriously atomic destruction on multiverse guys, someone shoot me

And here comes the part where yet another DB fan can't differentiate between atomic destruction and atomization. Color me surprised. What Trunks did was reduce a matter (Freeza) to smaller constituent units. He isn't bypassing external durability in order to do this, but rather, overcoming it. Seiya's attacks directly target the atoms themselves and destroy them - bypassing material durability in the process. "Xeno Goku has good speed feats guys. Just let me look at some more respect threads to find them". Laughable. All you're doing is further demonstrating your ignorance on the character you were so sure wins this match. Lol

Goku has a few thousands of times FTL speed at best going off Beerus and Dyspo. Whis traveled across the universe via his staff, which isn't applicable in combat. A few thousands of times FTL is very impressive by itself, but absolute fodder for most universal tiers or higher. Goku gets blitzed here.

I'm referring to Xeno Goku, not DBS. Even still, most of the quantifiable feats he could scale to in the thousands of times FTL range involve travel speed, and if we factor that in, he isn't beating anyone here in that category. If his combat speed is on the same level, he would still get blitzed by STTGL and Seiya.

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U_WOT_M8

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#115  Edited By U_WOT_M8

@jman88933 said:

@u_wot_m8:

Your grammar is quite amusing lol. Bad grammar from a bad debater, makes perfect sense. But back on topic, from the feats you've presented on Xeno Goku, the manga team should be more than capable of squishing him altogether.

Sure, prove it rather then think it

And here I go debunking this foolish claim again. And you do realize you shot down your own argument of Trunks having Atomic Destruction by saying: 'Trunks did apon Frieza in reducing him to atoms', right? Congradulations dude, you did nothing! And back to what I was saying before, I've debunked DB characters having Atomic Destruction multiple times already, but the sad part is that this can be figured out just by simple careful reading. It's hilarious how this still gets confused with as reducing someone to atoms is massively different from destroying atoms directly.

https://imgur.com/a/ObOjJjV

Wow talking about debunking yet you never came close lol the point is the prove DBZ character can destroy so much that it can reach all the way into the atomic range of things, now if Piccolo attack, which can reduce their foe to atoms, attacks a stronger character like Raditz, it does nothing to them as shown. Destroying atoms is nothing special, just another way to ignore durability all together by targeting the person durability on a small scale that ignores their overall durability, but with DBZ that fails, because if stronger guys can tank attacks that can affect their atoms, that means their durability spams all the way into the atomic stage of their durability, meaning it's not doing anything that Ki couldn't do before. Plus to top this all off, Goku can handle hakai, which erases existence itself, leaving nothing behind, so no, atomic destruction is nothing here.

Also your "Pretty sure" Xeno Goku is faster? You better be able to back that up with evidence dude. Seiya fought faster than a being who unleashed attacks so fast, it traversed through an infinite realm, a dimension consisting of billions of galaxies, and Hell to reach earth. That equates to God Seiya being over Septillion+ times the speed of light.

https://imgur.com/a/OLr49uX

I'm curious. Since your apparently the mighty brain wizard of this post, what gives you the idea that a given Tier suddenly grants a person resistance to a hax?

I will find speed feats, pretty sure xeno did insane things on speed, in fact, i think Goku controls instant transmission to such an existence he can use it freely like nothing.

There's nothing stating she can't use that in combat. But the actual point of that scan was to show she was able to give a large amount of her energy to restore the Static Cosmos through the Crystal. A large amount of energy and power Xeno Goku doesn't seem to be near in terms of his presented showings.

Prove she can use it in combat, don't need assumptions thank. Cool, she was able to give energy to restore shit, is it combat useful ? I know a little about sailor moon, nearly 90% of the shit they do is from a sort of manipulation

The scan described its power. And Usagi literally just used it. That's why the other Sailor Scouts assumed Usagi sacrificed her own self after hearing note of Usagi using that power.

Mhm. Not too sure why Zamasu is being brought up. And Usagi says hello back, wondering what Hakai was supposed to do to her. Usagi's body is the projection of the Universe itself, she'll only come back again if she's erased. Plus, she's resisted having her body erased in the past already:

https://imgur.com/a/ZRb281m

Because Zamasu was the same, taken over a timeline and such, and Goku and Vegeta in super had no problem taking him on if they had 1 more Senzu since they we're weakened beyond belief. Erase her from existence regardless if she is intangible or invulnerable, along with her soul. Reduced to nothing. Now for your scan, nothing shows that, seriously your scan sucks, they lack context and showings. And to top it all off, it's not the level of hakai itself.

In all honesty, Hakai can easily be overpowered by having an energy level higher than the user proven by Vegeta punching it away. All of the Manga team members, from what I've seen, have resisted and overpowered hax far more powerful than Hakai. Its not a good idea to rely on that solely dude.

Cool, they need to have equal power and footing, sailor moon doesn't and never will, they are glass canons who do things with manipulations rather then power. Hakai removes people, body and soul from existence, when in any of the scans you shown done something more impressive then that ?

I'm talking about pulling out Goku's soul from his body directly and sealing it on another dimension, not destroying it. Goku has never shown a resistance against that. He's not immune to soul hax entirely.

Why would he need to show resistance to something much worse then actual destruction of the soul ? fact is he resisted stuff involving the soul, you thinking anyone with soul hax is gonna come by and instant NLF GG is ridiculous, plus in another page, I believe Goku soul was taking and he kept on fighting or something.

She nullified an attack that breached through her defenses. On the top panel, you can see her holding her wand, defending herself and using the hax.

Cancels her enemies powers is different then nullifying attacks coming her way, not to mention who cares, Beerus can nullify attacks as well, what is her limit in null attacks.

For given context, Usagi was at another dimension and she modified reality to retrieve the other sailor scouts back on earth, which was about to be attacked.

Scans of all this, and how she modified reality and actually her modify reality

Please clarify what kind of magic. Also I'm talking about Sailor Moon's magic here, not Demigras. What Goku resisted from Demigra is completely irrelevant here unless its similar to what Usagi does. For example, what's stopping Goku from being turned into a spec of dust by Usagi?

https://imgur.com/a/NX4YAeV

It's magic, if Goku resisted magic from Demigra, why wouldn't he be able to resist usagi magic, my goodness, apparently hax is unresistant with how this is going.

You sure she is not saying that she is gonna vaporize him or something ? Don't see hax reducing him to dust, and even if she could reduce him to dust (which she can't because Goku clearly resisted far more powerful hax) it would be no different then Vegito vs Gohan Buu. Vegito was turned into candy from Buu beam, even after being caught off guard and still kicked his ass, and when Vegito was on guard, he resisted Buu absorption with his barrier. So yeah, nothing special at all.

Yup. And since I don't see any counters, it seem that only 1/4 of Sailor Moon's hax abilities will be needed to swat away Goku here.

Lol sure, you are not even proving this, her hax sucks

Sailor Moon restored the entire Static Cosmos with her power through the Cosmo Crystal. I'm not trying to convince you to see anything. I'm just stating facts.

Cool, can she use it in combat ? It's like blowing up a planet with star seed manipulation, doesn't mean it's combat useful when someone is fighting with no planets around. I know they can destroy things with actual power, but guess it, compared to their manipulations, it's trash.

With given context, they do.

They suck, seriously they are rubbish Goku has already dealt with before, mostly in Z

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@gokugoat:

Your definitely spot on with your comment man. I always remind myself that there are a good portion of DB fans who can properly speak in a debate discussion. My apologies if any of any the manga team supporters, including myself, stepped out of line. We try had not to but damn do some of these kids need help lol.

If you want my opinion, no. Its not a speed feat because then DB characters moving in the world of void would be immeasurable. Since it also exists with no time. And your damn right, these guys posted minor scans for Xeno Goku in other threads, but so far, none of them have accurate or complete context given with them. They just see the tiering of Multiversal then fanboy it all over the place.

Sorry Comic Vine can't be of any use to you when it comes to this.

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@jman88933: The other guys copy post from one of the guys I follow. Should of at least knowledge the post from VS wiki for source. I recommend researching Xeno Goku or at least I am and saving information. Not even a fair fight tbh. Should been Xeno/game DB team vs manga team now that’s a battle. Tho I am still stuck between Saint Seiya vs Xeno Goku. I do believe Xeno Goku can take on top tier characters. I would go to that thread, but it’s seems dead with exact war like this ?.

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@gokugoat:

If Xeno Gold is really Multiversal and can blow up entire timelines with his strength,(Something the DB supporters claims but never proven with scans) then he would beat Seiya, Schneider, and Moon.

I would argue Seiya would win with the given feats, but I know little about Xeno Goku to really refute. So until the DBH anime comes out, I can't choose a winner.

Though STTGL solos every incarnation of the db verse.

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#119  Edited By GokuGOAT

@jman88933: DBH anime is just promotional don’t rely on it for information. I could be wrong just be open minded about it and don’t expect some crazy feats at first. Possibly see them if the shows does well which it will. In my opinion SSJ3-SSJ4 would be able to win against those guys in one on one fight, but not against them if they team. I do remember Zeno card having infinity symbol, but doesn’t make sense. So yea STTGL solos, but have you seen that Zeno card that I’m talking about. I remember seeing it, but can’t put my finger where I found it. Just have image of Zeno with infinity symbol in my memories that’s the only thing I know.

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zgtfreak

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#120  Edited By zgtfreak

@gokugoat: Seeing people like you makes me sad, because it reminds me of how the DB community could be civil at times before BoG came out. I left the DB community after DBS wankers came and said Goku and Zeno are omnipotent++++ in every thread. You are the first DB guy I've seen in literal years that is civil. No seriously... YEARS...

I don't care if I am being rude though, because I have been debunking them at the same time. I'm not merely throwing around insults. Infact the only guy I was somewhat rude to was Death for his many wanks in many threads; even then I never insulted him.

Also infinity symbol Zeno is an outlier with no context.

@thedarkpaladin I mentioned DBS Goku since nothing implies Xeno Goku's speed is any different.

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@zgtfreak: After Superman, comic vine banning DB from debating with others that aren’t anime/manga, and amount of trolls here ruin DB comic vine community. Lots of OG DB fans felt angry about comic vine bans battles with DB and left to other sites. See how bunch of trolls can ruin a community. DB comic vine community seems ok now, but not how it use to be. Please don’t let those guys get to you and I’m only talking about insults. Being aggressive in a debate is good if you aren’t going overboard.

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Thedarkpaladin

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@zgtfreak: They aren't the same Goku. I wouldn't scale him to canon DBS Goku anymore than I would movie Goku.

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#123  Edited By GokuGOAT

@thedarkpaladin: This Goku was involved in events of Super, but yea shouldn’t be scaled with canon Goku. I do believe his movie feats count like with his fight with Cooler fighting levels of speed. Kaioken X100 seem questionable tho.

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Thedarkpaladin

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@gokugoat: So Xeno Goku went through the same events as DBS Goku in canon? Come to think of it, I remember something about him going through the movie's events, so I guess he could be scaled to that.

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@zacrimsonwarudo said:

@caocao: *summons pet super shenron and wishes whole enemy team into brainless 2inch baby potatoes*

Yeah... no. None of them is 11 or 12-D. So no chance for Shenron and Xeno Goku against STTGL.

The others are propably debatable.

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GokuGOAT

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#126  Edited By GokuGOAT

@Thedarkpaladin: https://imgur.com/a/zxXF47t

I would say this would be BOG Super because trailers take place during 2015-2016 when Xeno Goku makes appearance.

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ZaCrimsonWarudo

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@caocao: 'Can wish for anything' 'no limits', stated by an omniscient...

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GokuGOAT

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@zacrimsonwarudo: Shenron needs more feats tho. We know that probably is multi universal and can bring back erased universes easily back. We would have to see if really is limitless later on. Remember when Zeno was thought as a omnipotent.

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@zacrimsonwarudo said:

@caocao: 'Can wish for anything' 'no limits', stated by an omniscient...

Hmm? That´s why Zamasu wasn´t really immortal? No limits look´s different.

Also i wonder if he is omniscient, why he don´t takes the wishes only by the mind of his summoner.

The statements sounds a bit inconsistent

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ZaCrimsonWarudo

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@caocao: Zeno and super shenron counter each other. Zeno erased an immortal from shenron. Shenron revived universes erased by zeno.

Also the omniscient guy is Zuno lol

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ZaCrimsonWarudo

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@gokugoat: Yes he would need more feats but nothing contradicts him. Erasing is different to death hence zamasu being erased.

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@zacrimsonwarudo said:

@caocao: Zeno and super shenron counter each other. Zeno erased an immortal from shenron. Shenron revived universes erased by zeno.

Well, that is immortality with limits. The immortality of Zamasu was bound by the Universe, which Zeno erased. Sounds more like conceptual immortality on a universal scale. The Immortality wasn´t even bound by Super Shenron, like Godhood Immortality.

Also the omniscient guy is Zuno lol

Ah, ok. My bad :D

I have to rewatch DBS, but didn´t ask Zeno some things the GP, who he doesn´t realy understand? It look´s like Grand Priest is more in a way omniscient, then Zeno.

EDIT: The Zeno from the other Universe don´t even know who Goku was. So he isn´t by the logical way omniscient. That is like the same way with the Beyonder. He is a God, he is omniscient, but at the and he wasn´t. Omniscient = You know all, you can´t be suprised. There is nothing that you can´t know.

I don´t see, that Zeno even know who wins the tournament.

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@zacrimsonwarudo: Yea but better safe than sorry. I remember when everyone hyped Zeno as being ultimate god, the one to rival all gods in fiction, and stalemate with TOAA and presence. Didn’t turn that way not a single bit so always be careful.

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ZaCrimsonWarudo

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@caocao: Erasing =/= killing. Zeno has existence erasure. Zamasu's wish was more of that he doesn't die, at all. Existence erasure can destroy that.

Also youre mistaken, zUno and zEno are different people lol. zUno is the omniscient one.

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zgtfreak

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@zacrimsonwarudo: Merged Zamasu wasn't immortal due to fusing, so Zeno has no feats of killing immortals.

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Goku stomps everyone else and struggle it out with sttgl who's the major factor here and after an everlasting battle,he eventually loses.

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@zacrimsonwarudo said:

@caocao: Erasing =/= killing. Zeno has existence erasure. Zamasu's wish was more of that he doesn't die, at all. Existence erasure can destroy that.

Ok? o.O

Not every kind of Immortality can be erased, unless it is existence erasure on a conceptual scale. But even there are some beings who are true immortal and beyond the concept. The Immortality Zamasu´s wasn´t a big deal. The Power of no Limits should you give Immortality without Limit. But that doesen´t happen. Even if Super Shenron is equal to Zenos Power, it only showns that there is a Limit. The Power of Zeno is the Limit, and Zeno is only Multi-Universal.

Also youre mistaken, zUno and zEno are different people lol. zUno is the omniscient one.

Hmm... i have to ask: Who is Zuno? o.O A higher being from Xeno?

Don´t get me wrong. Xeno Goku stomps most of the Team, but STTGL is still a higherdimensional being on the 11 to 12 dimensional Scale. That is far above Zeno his Existence, so i don´t know if the Xeno-Verse has that extreme Power Up to beat even STTGL. The others like Darsh, Sailor Moon, etc. are fodder in this match.

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@caocao: zuno is the fat guy in the chair who tells bulma her boobs got smaller and tells her about the super dragon balls

He’s also who zamasu threatened in order to get info on goku

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ZaCrimsonWarudo

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@zgtfreak: That is manga

In the anime, merged zamasu's body was destroyed. Goku black died but zamasu's soul was still alive and consumed the universe hence it showing normal zamasu's face and not merged

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ZaCrimsonWarudo

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@caocao:

I mean, infinite means no limits right? But two people with infinite power will/should be equal. Limbo is the infinite multi verse, yet we see it has outskirts https://goo.gl/images/2XCv4b but it is still infinite? IMO, if two no limits people fight, there will be limits, but surpassed everytime - loop

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@caocao:

I mean, infinite means no limits right? But two people with infinite power will/should be equal. Limbo is the infinite multi verse, yet we see it has outskirts https://goo.gl/images/2XCv4b but it is still infinite? IMO, if two no limits people fight, there will be limits, but surpassed everytime - loop

Infinite means no Limits, correct. But there are a difference between infinite in the concept. Inifnite power in a universal concept, infinite power in a multiversal concept, infinite power in a higher multiverse concept, etc.

For example: Zeno his power is only infinite based on his 12 or 18 Universes. He isn´t above a higher space-time continuum since there is in every other timeline another zeno. Zeno is a infinite being, the same as Zalama, below the higher space-time continuum concept.

That´s btw. the point, why i think there is possible someone who is more powerfull then Zeno and Zalama, someone who is above the Dragonball Multiverse. (And i don´t mean Toribot).

Also Limbo is on a whole other level then everything i saw in the Dragonball franchise.

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#144  Edited By zgtfreak

@zacrimsonwarudo: You got it backwards, manga Merged Zamasu was immortal, in the anime, Zeno just killed his "will" of the universe fusing PIS thingy. I don't remember Zamasu's soul or will being immortal.

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@zacrimsonwarudo:

@zgtfreak: That is manga

In the anime, merged zamasu's body was destroyed. Goku black died but zamasu's soul was still alive and consumed the universe hence it showing normal zamasu's face and not merged

This ^. Ok

Goku stomps everyone else and struggle it out with sttgl who's the major factor here and after an everlasting battle,he eventually loses.

I'm late but how is STTGL a major factor? Xeno goku fights legitimate gods. STTGL is just described to a god. Xeno goku tanked a blast easily capable of destroying an infinite 4D timeline. DG Towa is 7D + Complex Multiversal and he wont even fight Xeno goku. I'm tempted to call this spite cause xeno goku godstomps that team.

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#146  Edited By zgtfreak

@srlangehen: The word "god" means nothing in fiction unless it is directly related to omnipotence. Xeno Goku never tanked an infinite 4D attack. Show me scans and prove there is infinite 4D space in DBH.

Dimensional tierring does not exist in DBH, and no one even has 5D or infinite 4D feats. Stop using Chuck The Cyber Cuck as information; he wanks things to unrealistic levels and uses VsBattles tierring.

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@zgtfreak said:

@srlangehen: The word "god" means nothing in fiction unless it is directly related to omnipotence. Xeno Goku never tanked an infinite 4D attack. Show me scans and prove there is infinite 4D space in DBH.

Dimensional tierring does not exist in DBH, and no one even has 5D or infinite 4D feats. Stop using Chuck The Cyber Cuck as information; he wanks things to unrealistic levels and uses VsBattles tierring.

You're going to need to clarify that first sentence. Are you saying there are no gods? Or all it takes is for one to simply to be compared to a God to become one? And okay, you don't 2ant dimensional tiering? He's multiversal in base, and multiversal+ any other time. Better?

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zgtfreak

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@srlangehen: The title of "god" does not indicate one's power. There are non gods in other fictions that can one shot Dragon Ball gods.

Goku is not multiversal in base, and he is not multiversal+ (assuming you mean infinite) at all. There is no infinite multiverse in Dragon Ball. Xeno Goku is multi universal at best. He gets stomped via hax by everyone here.

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@zgtfreak:

Nah only zamasu was immortal. Zamasu's body was destroyed so his soul went out and consumed the universe. Manga was more complex to where they 'refused' to defuse and stayed as merged zamasu...

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@zacrimsonwarudo: Zamasu's will became the universe, and I don't believe his will is stated to be immortal. Also manga Merged Zamasu was completely immortal and began to multiply. Manga also has higher power scaling over the anime in general.