X-Men Telepaths rankings : Pre-Jonathan Hickman edition

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deactivated-5e385ee5c8c54

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As we know, a lot of the X-Men's history and identity revolves around telepathy. Before we move on to the next new era for the X-Men, the upcoming Jonathan Hickman era, i'd like to rank the telepaths as they are up to this point in time before the new era is ushered in.

Rules:

1. Rank the telepaths without having any ties. For example, you cannot have 8. Stepford Cuckoos/Quentin Quire

2. No need to include vague "god-tier" ones like shaman nate, life-seed nate, Legion, providence cable and etc.

You can break them into tiers if you wish.

Rankings so far:

Mine:

1) Jean

2) Xavier

3) shadow king

4) cassandra nova

5) exodus

6) emma frost

7) rachel

8) sinister

9) nate grey

10) stryfe

11) psylocke

12) stepford cuckoos

13) teen jean

14) quentin quire

@marvelfan1992

1. Jean

2. Xavier

3. Cassandra Nova

4. Shadow King

5. Emma

6. Rachel

7. Exodus

8. Sinister

9. Xavier Jr.

10. Stryfe

11. Pre-Shaman Nate

12. Psylocke

13. Cuckoos

14. Quentin

15. Jeen a.k.a Lil' Jean

16. Cable

17. Martha

18. Sage

@koays

1-Xavier

2-Jean

3-Nova

4- Emma

5- Rachel

6- Sinister

7- Exodus

8- Xavier Jr.

9- Legion

10- Base Cable

11- Pre Shaman Nate

12- Stryfe

13- Psylocke

14- Stepford Cuckoos

15- Quentin Quire

16- Jeen

17- Blindfold

18- One Cuckoo

19- Sage

20-Martha

@del_torro

1) Charles Xavier

2) Legion (complete)

3) Shadow King

4) Jean grey

5) Cassandra Nova

...

6) Savior Cable

7) Emma Frost

8) Exodus

9) Sinister

10)Rachel

11)Mesmero

...

12)Stryfe

13)Xavier Junior

14)Psylocke

15)Cuckoos

**)Blindfold

16)Quentin

...

17)Cable

18)Sage

19)Martha

20)Monet

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@pyrofn 's ranking

HIGH TIER

1) Jean Grey

2) Xavier

3) Cassie Nova

4) Shadow King

5) Emma Frost

6) Madelyne Pryor

7) Mister Sinister

8) Exodus

9) Rachel Grey

..............

MID TIER

10) Psylocke

11) Cable (base form)

12) Teen Jean Grey

13) Stepford Cuckoos

14) Xavier Jr.

15) Mesmero

16) Quentin Quire

17) Karma

18) Sage

????) Blindfold

***********

LOW TIER

19) No-Girl

20) Artie

21) Stryfe

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EmmaFrostXmen

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#4  Edited By EmmaFrostXmen

High Tier

1) Jean Grey

2) Xavier

3) Cassie Nova

4) Emma Frost

5) Shadow King

6) Madelyne Pryor

7) Mister Sinister

8) Exodus

9) Rachel Grey

Mid Tier

10) Psylocke

11) Cable (base form)

12) Teen Jean Grey

13) Stepford Cuckoos

14) Xavier Jr.

15) Mesmero

16) Quentin Quire

17) Karma

18) Sage

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For me:

1.Charles

2.Nova

3.Shadow king

4.Jean

5.Exodus

6.Emma

7.Sinister

8.Rachel

9.Xavier jr

10.Psylocke

11.Cuckoos

12.Jeen

13.Quire

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geekryan

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1. Jean Grey

2. Xavier

3. Cassandra Nova

4. Shadow King

5. Emma Frost

6. Rachel

7. Exodus

8. Mr Sinister

9. Xavier Jr.

10. Stryfe

11. Pre-Shaman Nate Grey

12. Psylocke

13. Cuckoos

14. Quentin Quire

15. Jeen a.k.a Lil' Jean

16. Cable

17. Blindfold

18. Mirage

19. Martha/No-Girl

20. Sage

21. Monet

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del_torro

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1)Monet

2)Mesmero

3)Martha

4)Madelyne

(the top tier, they all laughed at Rachel)

5)Artie-underrated

6)Storm (omega level Telepaths because she controls neurons)

7)Exodus

8)Lifeseed Nate grey

9)Galactus (he jobs too much)

10)Psynapse (this guy like beat Jean grey and Nate grey)

11)Stryfe (he has many feet)

12) Kwannon because she is a ninja

13)wheel chair Xavier he is useless without cerebro, Hickman is making him wear a cerebro helmet. Loser

14)Mystique. I suspect that she is a telepath

15) Franklin Richards because he is just a kid

16) Mastermind

17) Emma frost (very weak)

18)Blindfold

19)Chamber

20)Jean grey

@Koays: I didn't add Rachel because she is a God tier. Thanks

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Koays

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@del_torro: I challenge your claim that Stryfe has feet.

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del_torro

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@koays: Oh crap, all his stories are drawn by Liefield

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ProfessorRespect

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1. Xavier

2. Jean

3. Nova

4. Shadow King

5. Cable (Savior amp)

6. Emma Frost

7. Rachel

8. Exodus

9. Mesmero

10. Proteus? Idk

11. Pre-Shaman Nate Grey

12. Psylocke

13. Cuckoos (AKA 5 In One, etc)

14. Quentin Quire (He'd be above Cuckoos with his Kick amp)

15. Mirage

16. Cable

17. Blindfold

18. No-Girl

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Koays

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comic_book_fan

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hickman is writing x-men i guess i am subscribing when i get paid.

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onsipin

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Jean

Xavier

Nova

SK

Emma

Exodus

Rachel

Nate

Stryfe

Psylocke

Cable

Cuckoos

Quentin Quire

Jeen

Mesmero

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LordOfAllHumans

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Now who do I choose...

Jean

Xavier

Nova

Emma

Rachel

I don't really care about the rest. Why are the Cuckoos counted as "a telepath"? They are a bunch of telepaths, not one telepath. Hive mind my ass, it's still a team up and they all have individual power, they are below Quire, due to that fact.

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LordOfAllHumans

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#16  Edited By LordOfAllHumans

@martinceld: Shadow King is a scrub. His claim to fame is being compared to Xavier because Xavier thinks every new mutant he met in the past that was powerful was the greatest he'd ever sensed. Then he proved he wasn't young, Storm looks 8 years old, Xavier level, when Xavier kicked his ass shortly after saying that. Then he came back a bunch of times and at one point proved he wasn't even really Karma level without all kinds of plans and tricks.

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LordOfAllHumans

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#18  Edited By LordOfAllHumans

@martinceld: New Mutants 34. He possesses her and all kinds of shit happens. After all that shit, he sneaks out and possesses Doug. She engages him on the astral plane and he flees as she gets the upper hand and the mention of Xavier.

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deactivated-5e385ee5c8c54

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Nico0517

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Does Nate grey and moondragon count in this edition?

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deactivated-5e385ee5c8c54

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@nico0517: Nate yes. Moondragon is not really part of the x-men world so people aren't ranking her

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Koays

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@nico0517: Current and Shaman versions of Nate are God-tiers who we arent ranking because they're supposedly stronger then any telepath but have limited feats

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Doing mine with tiers this time which is not in the OP

High Tier:

1. Jean

2. Xavier

3. Cassandra Nova

4. Shadow King (i am open to putting him lower lol)

5. Emma

6. Rachel

7. Exodus

8. Sinister

Mid Tier

9. Xavier Jr.

10. Pre-Shaman Nate

11. Stryfe

12. Psylocke

13. 3-in-1 Cuckoos

14. Quentin

15. Jeen

16. Cable

Low Tier

17. 1 Cuckoo

18. Martha

19. Sage

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coraPVP

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#24  Edited By coraPVP

Jean

Xavier

Cassandra

Shadow King

Emma

Rachel

Exodus

Mr Sinister

Stryfe

Xavier Junior

Psylocke

Cuckoos

AOA Nate

Teen Jean

Quentin Quire

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@corapvp: by AOA Nate do you mean during his time in the AOA only or all of pre-shaman Nate?

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Six-Deuce

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Alot of ppl are lowballing X-man I believe. He does not need the Phoenix comparison statement feats to put him at/near the top of this list.

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@six-deuce: the X-Man being ranked here is only pre-shaman Nate. We have Shaman and Lifeseed Nate as 'god-tier' and thus not really ranking them anymore haha! As for X-Man being just somewhere in the middle, from what I gather he lacks the TP feats to have him higher up, he mostly used telekinesis in his run. He may well be the most powerful one here, but without the feats, especially skill feats, it hurts his cause. Do share why you feel he would be higher though, I very much enjoy X-Man.

How would your ranking list go by the way

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Six-Deuce

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@martinceld: Nate is tough to rep because his powers are so convoluted. He has TP, TK, precog, psionics, dimension shift, time manipulation, reality warping......the question becomes are these accomplished by use of TP or are they separate mutant powers?

Well, he casually defeated Jean with TP pre-shaman, Xavier stated his telepathic power was the strongest he had ever encountered (also pre-shaman). Nate entered the mind of Mr. Sinister as an infant, without him knowing. Scanned the earth pre-shaman. Killed a telepath from over hundreds of miles away with TP (pre shaman).

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AsheTDust

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Jean

Xavier

Nova

Emma

Rachel

Exodus

The rest simply aren't up at their level.

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del_torro

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@six-deuce: pre Shaman Nate never defeated Jean in telepathy. The only time they've faced was Jean firing a telekinetic blast at Madelyne Pryor and Nate deflecting it back at Jean. That's not telepathy.

Xavier is full of shit. He calls Matthew malloy, Jean grey, Legion, Exodus, Franklin, Nate grey the most powerful mind. He needs to make up his mind. Especially since Xavier has tanked all of pre Shaman Nate greys attacks while Nate was bloodlust.

That's an alternate universe Mr sinister who barely has any feats we can use to scale.

Scanning the planet is a basic feat for telepathic top tiers now, Jean, Rachel, Xavier, Emma, Teen Jean, Cuckoos have all done it casually.

This final one sounds like Shaman Nate grey

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kenshiro3051996

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@del_torro: you are right the last one is shaman x-man and scanning the planet is a common thing for the powerful telepaths now

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#32  Edited By kenshiro3051996

Well everyone gave their rankings but no one really said why they ranked that way. I will try to give some explanations for mine. Will think about this more before posting i'm very torn about some placements

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@kenshiro3051996: Well since you put down the challenge.

@koays

1-Xavier: One of the strongest, extremely skilled. Trained, fought and beat half the list. Most feats period.

2-Jean- Arguably the Strongest. Very Skilled. Best defenses feats. But lacks direct feats that Xavier has against the other high tiers.

3-Nova- Has feats of power and mind control above pretty much everyone. But the inability to effect Jean and lack of feats outside of mind control put her behind Xavier and Jean.

4- Emma- Most skilled. Best showings against greater numbers and confirmed equal or higher power levels. Repeatedly called one of the strongest telepaths on the planet.

5- Rachel- High power levels to start. Confirmed power increase and skill increase since last fight with Exodus.

6- Sinister- Power Levels very but is able to compensate. Very intelligent. Highly skilled.

7- Exodus- Power levels are completely inconsistent. At best can tank a shot from Xavier at worst is fooled by illusions cast by an inexperienced Cuckoo. Is arguably skilled but has poor showings.

8- Xavier Jr.- Able to control the Cuckoos and combat Teen Jean at once while maintaining mind control over his teammates and projecting illusions. No sells Teen Jean's offense. Was oneshot by Rachel.

9- Legion- confirmed to be powerful and has further then planetary range. Was completely incapacitated by the Cuckoos psi attack, and Blinfold, while a depowered Emma believed she and the cuckoos could defeat him do to a lack of "dicipline".

10- Base Cable- Highly trained by Jean and Xavier. Able to combat Stryfe, Onslaught and Nate Grey despite power gaps. Can resist and cloak from telepaths from the current time period.

11- Pre Shaman Nate- Immense raw power. Very few skill showings. Next to zero combat TP showings.

12- Stryfe- This is a charity posting. He has one great TP feat that is inconsistent even within it's own story. And Psylocke's description of his TP "POSSIBLY" being stronger then hers is the only reason he would be here. And even then he cant see her without TP so wtf....hes trash.

13- Psylocke- Lots of hype. Lots of Astral plane feats. Ultimately lacking any feats against higher tier telepaths to properly rank her but has performed well enough against Shadowking that combined with her planetary we accept it.

14- Stepford Cuckoos- Most skilled of this level. Have planetary range feats. Have multiple feats over supposedly stronger telepaths.

15- Quentin Quire- Resisted Onslaught. Has sneak attack feats over high tiers. Very clever. Ultimately has been pushed to his limits repeatedly against high tiers and has been outdone by the Cuckoos.

16- Jeen: High power levels. Ultimately not very skilled. Fast learner.

17- Blindfold: Surprisingly powerful. Better at sensing things then some high tiers. Has mid range projection at best.

18- One Cuckoo: Esme had country range. And was able to shut down Sage's mind. Irma could project images into Exodus' mind.

19- Sage- Powerful enough to stun 90s Jean and Psylocke. Arguably one of the most skilled telepaths.

20-Martha: Psychic chafe can block powers. Somehow completely obliterated Kenji with a psi blast. Did that thing to Rachel I dont like to talk about.

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PyroFN

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@kenshiro3051996: You don’t know what you just asked, but okay.

1) Jean: Most powerful psychic that isn’t a god-tier. Her skill, experience, and power contribute to her placement. Phoenix Resurrection displays a subconscious Jean Grey on a casual level crying out for help. If that is her casual level, imagine her trying her hardest. Skill is thanks to Xavier’s training and she has used her powers many times on the battlefield for insane feats, what we refer to as the ‘wtf factor’. Having feats that Xavier basically couldn’t do and considering he fact that she shows up everyone who underestimated her gives her that dangerous factor. We also have Word of Gods from two writers and the X-Men editor saying she is the most powerful and on par with Xavier level opponents (Cassandra Nova).

2) Charles Xavier: Very close to Jean and could win matches against her in certain circumstances. That is how close they are. That’s said, what Charles has over Jean are winning battles against high tiers. So, why is he below her? Jean has feats against psychic immunities over Xavier. The only other psychics who consistently have that kind of power are Emma Frost and Psylocke when trying her hardest with her psychic knife, which is supposed to be the totality of her power. Psylocke is achieving it by giving everything she’s got, which is usually why she is so weak afterwards. Emma does it with some effort and Jean does it casually. Xavier can’t do it period.

3) Nova: Xavier’s twin sister. The mummudrai who pumped Xavier while on Cerebra. I’d tie her with Xavier if it was allowed. Still, this is a really good placement considering the fact that she got here by out-smarting and out-muscling the Xavier, who has been named the most powerful telepath a lot longer than Jean.

4) Shadow King: His placement goes by his ingenious planning and Xavier claiming Shadow King’s power to be on par with Xavier’s own power. That said, he is not above Nova because of how often he gets punked by Psylocke.

5) Emma Frost: The one who I have to say is the most skilled by quantity and complexity of her feats. This girl is nuts and is a casual planetary to boot. I really, really want to say she is on par with Xavier at least, but the thing is her raw power is below Xavier’s. Still, the fact that Emma can take down a psychic barrier of Skrulls created and trained to combat telepaths like her, can control a thousand Cuckoo clones, and block Xavier’s telepathy shows she is very close to Xavier’s level.

6) Madelyne Pryor: An often overlooked psychic due to her being a clone of Jean Grey and having been using Nate Grey as a crutch at one point in her history. Here is the thing though, this is the girl that survived the Astral Plane exploding and put herself back together within two weeks time, trapped Jean Grey in her mindscape and nearly consumed her, psychically sapped Nate Grey (Pre-Shaman) and converted it to match him in tk, shook the Astral Plane twice in her history just after being resurrected, and as a Goblin Queen (who those who did the psychics respect threads believe is under her regular appearance in X-Man in power) caused a psychic death that every psi on the planet felt. If she had more feats against other high tiers or done some impossible feats that none of the high tiers would easily replicate, Id put her as high as Jean.

7) Sinister: Has given Emma a hard time by blocking her telepathy and having a mindscape she had a hard time navigating. He has stomped Psylocke and used X-Man’s powers against him telepathically. This guy can be no joke when he is consistently written.

8) Exodus: Has been stalemated by Emma. An impressive feat in itself. Exodus has also fought Xavier and could have won had Xavier not had a bit of amnesia. He’s pretty overrated, but not weak by any stretch.

9) Rachel Grey: Jeans daughter. Has all the capabilities of her mother, yet doesn’t have all the skill her mother has. Still, she was powerful enough to be declared by Charles Xavier at one point in time as two of the most powerful telepaths on Earth. Her feats range from globally scanning and categorizing everyone on Earth, defending against an alternate version of Xavier long enough until she found an opening to kick him out of another mind, and has blocked Xavier from sensing her teammates while fighting him. Very impressive and deserving of her placement.

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Koays

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#35  Edited By Koays

Yea also,

The unranked:

Shadowking: Complety inconsistent. Is supposedly as powerful as Xavier, but has never won a fight without an amp, and has struggled with Psylocke, Karma and others. Almost every appearance involves prep.

Madelyn Pryor: Even worst then Shadowking with power levels to the point she doesnt even have the same powerset from story to story. Had a Phoenix frag and a demon amping her in Inferno. Was tapping Nates powers for most of the 90s until her death and as a psi ghost was using combinations of magic and telepathy for her feats. Other then pulling Cable onto the Astral plane and KOing Rachel there arent many pure TP feats. That she has that I consider completely hers.

Mesmero- Wasnt technically a telepath until recently. And his only feat is beating a telepath with already notoriously bad defenses when her mind was damaged....one who he had been stomped by already. Not gonna high or low ball him but his only win is circumstantial and all we know is that he couldnt beat base Rachel.

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kenshiro3051996

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#36  Edited By kenshiro3051996

@koays@pyrofn sorry it wasn't meant to be a shot fired or a challenge, just stating that it's just a bunch of lists that people may not understand. but I realize you guys that make the psi respect threads may have discussed these things before so you understand each others lists.

1) Jean Grey - very controversial. until a couple of weeks ago i had her below emma frost and exodus but after going through her thread and going through x-men red and phoenix Resurrection my view on her has changed a lot. I used to think that the projections in Phoenix Resurrection were caused by the Phoenix but @pyrofn and @del_torro clarified that it was really Jean which is pretty insane because she wasn't even doing it consciously. she apparently also did this even during her blue and yellow spandex days with what professor x called 'ambient dreaming'. This actually lines up pretty well with her character because she is always consciously holding her power back so it makes sense that when she is not trying to do this in phoenix resurrection because she is unaware or in her sleep in first class, her real power gets to come out unchecked and to devastating affects since she was taking on a bunch of x-men squads all around the globe with her psychic projections. She also fried cable's mind and put rachel in the clinic just from them trying to reach her mind. i don't know how exactly that worked but i think it's because of that psychic feedback we've seen many times in the comics so she must have been putting out a lot of psychic energy to cause damage like that from so far away. Then professor X calls what Jean did in new x-men with containing his consciousness and splitting it to every mutant as something that should not be possible. She also affects Emma Frost in her diamond form and was walking through her mind defenses. it was pointed out to be confirmed by cassandra nova in x-men red that she was more powerful than in new x-men. in x-men red she also showcases some of the best telepathy defense to date by being unaffected by cassandra nova's direct telepathic assault even when she was as cassandra put it "three interlinked minds connecting to millions of devices across the globe. you're well past your capacity." even this is happening, Jean was totally not affected while cassandra started to sweat from the strain of her attack on Jean. Jean also was able to shield her deep parts of her mind from onslaught even when she was already his prisoner and later on with the help of cable she was able to shield the x-men squad from onslaught with x-man power boosting him. she also provided the power to Psylocke to break legion's possession of multiple man which he put a personality in each of the clones making his hold on them very intimate and powerful. Jean also led the x-men telepaths in splitting up x-man and legion they were nto able to affect x-man when jean was gone, and very impressive was her attack on x-man inside his own mind where he is in control and she channeled the pain of the world and used it to attack his mind which overwhelmed him and he was on his knees in pain. She can do this at any time as pointed out by del_torro because in x-men red she casually was feeling the pain of the people around the world. He also said she could even use positive energy and psychic energy in general. plus statement from Rosenberg, that said she is more powerful than professor x, who wrote astonishing x-men annual and continued the next arc of astonishing x-men meaning he is aware of X and what he is capable of and knows jean also because he wrote resurrection and uncanny x-men. not gospel truth as each writer would probably have his own stand on this but since he is very familiar with both (i see on twitter he has been reading x-men since a child) and wrote both recently including their encounter, i think it's a credible statement to take into account when judging jean. jean also has a knack of breaking through mental defenses and psi-shields, be it natural, machine made or telepathic. she also shown great skill by being able to bypass cassandra nova's mind traps and also being able to split apocalypse psyche from cyclops, shutting off people's minds and powers, removing trauma of gentle so he no longer felt pain when using his powers. overall i think for now she should be number 1

2) Professor X - the man, the beast, the legend, professor charles xavier himself. He had it all, skill, power, experience, a shiny head (formerly) and the hottest set of wheels in town (also formerly). He has defeated exodus, shadow king, rachel grey, dark phoenix, turned magneto into a potato. Even as a ghost trapped by shadow king on the astral plane he was able to hold off shadow king who was more powerful than before.he was able to do multiple things on multiple levels such as creating fake realities for shadow king to see on the astral plane, fight old man logan's psyche, hide himself rogue mystique and fantomex in the astral plane and even another layer where he talks to fantomex 1on1, all thanks to, according to him, his "skill" which I believe is unmatched by any other telepath. he's been able to channel the emotions and positive energy of all the people int he world on more than 1 occasion i think. constantly referred to as the most powerful mind or telepath for most of if not all of his history. He was also able to perfectly subdue matthew malloy who is so powerful that exodus died just from making contact with him and rachel believed she would end up the same way if she didn't try something else. he also created circuit breakers which contained jean's power in her young years and also created circuit breakers for dark phoenix. he was also shielding from the pure raw energy psionic attacks by x-man who is said to be the most powerful psi ever. He also casually fixed Angel's mental problems with evil ArchAngel which is something psylocke could never do, and could barely help him keep under control even with her best efforts. he easily erases people's minds and plants false memories to entire groups of people. Also was able to remove the infection of the shadow king from the people in the city. skilled and sneaky enough to use his knowledge of jean grey's mind to mind wipe her. even if she was not defending at all against him and this doesn't put him above her, it is still a very impressive showing. He has a whole bunch of feats over his history. If not for Jean Grey's recent showings since her resurrection, I would definitely have Professor x as number 1. He will likely take back the top spot once he is back int he comics and the focus is on him

3) Cassandra Nova - basically professor x evil twin sister. She has his telepathy including other powers he could have had like telekinesis. she came in with a bang, mind r***** Xavier while he was still connected to Cerebro. She was able to do this just from him doing a scan and when their minds touched she was able to take over his mind and Xavier was unable to fight it and was about to shoot himself in the head in order to stop her. Jean Grey from that time ended up foaming at the mouth just from entering cassandra's mind. She used cerebra to switch bodies with professor x trapped him in her sick body and also trapped his mind in a sort of psychic prison. She managed to unnoticed by other high class telepaths at the school like jean grey, emma frost and the stepford cuckoos. Her mental traps guarding Xavier were good enough that Emma Frost who is considerably skilled got stuck. Using Cerebra she would have been able to kill every mutant on the planet. Even in her dying moment, she was able to plant a suggestion in emma frost mind even if she was in diamond form and eventually take control of her. She was also able to go about the x-mansion undetected by Rachel Grey, a powerful omega level telepath and able to mind control her easily and make her an attack dog and was also able to take control of an army but im not sure if she only took control of the leaders and the army was just following or if she controlled everyone. she humiliated the top dogs in new x-men immediately placing her high up the pole. She is very power and skilled and gives us a look at what professor x could be like if he had no empathy.

4) Emma Frost - this girl right here brought sophistication into telepathy. Before her, it had a lot to do with blasting each other with your minds, then the spotlight went to Emma and she certainly used the time good use. she showed us that power isn't everything, and that skill can give you the edge, such was the case in her fight with rachel grey. with just a short amount of time, she was able to set a trap in cyclops mind that allowed her to defeat professor x even though he is a lot more powerful than her. she also has been able to force exodus into a stalemate, wrestle control of cyclops mind from sinister, shield her team from exodus and sinister even from a different location. she was able to break free of cassandra novas control eventually. she also altered kitty prydes mind so well that exodus could not undo it. emma also dismantled an entire skrull telepath blockade that was trained specifically to fight the x-men telepaths. she has bypassed mental shields and controlled lots of people in the past like when she had an entire hellfire club building complex kill each other or run away and she is a planetary telepath as well. she also shielded scott's mind from the phoenix force, and in a fit of rage, was hurting everyone in the x-mansion including omega level telepaths rachel and quentin quire as well as mentally resistant people like storm. she also made quentin quire poop himself casually and took control of magneto's mind. she can even turn off the powers of someone like teenage jean grey. one of her most famous showings is managing to take control of the thousand in one hivemind of cuckoos. she has also blocked professor x telepathy, and also been able to counteract the psychic illusions of lady mastermind. she even managed to fool everyone into thinking that scott died at the hands of blackbolt and was projecting an illusion of him to people for prolonged periods of time. Even when Jean grey had pierced through her diamond form and mental defenses, emma was still able to guard the deepest part of her mind and keep it protected from Jean in new x-men. her psychic power's backlash has also caused jean grey great pain, and she was able to control the phoenix force for a while with the help of quentin quire and the cuckoos.

5. Exodus. at his peak he was soloing the x-men and avengers together while shrugging off a full powered blast from professor x and keeping jean grey, scarlet witch and crystal subdued. he also was stalemating rachel grey while fighting a whole team of x-men including rogue who had tried to siphon his power but he had too much. telepathy takes a lot of focus and while rachel was giving her entire focus and effort to fighting him, he was able to fend her off without giving his full focus and judging from the fight its safe to say that was only half his attention and this went on for multiple pages. he was also able to make professor xavier struggle at the beginning of their fight after exodus had brought him back. the psychic backlash of their fight was so powerful that it caused emma frost to be staggered from far far away. he was able to stalemate emma frost, and she needed to bring in Dust to help her finish him off. he also casually blasted jean grey out of his mind on avalon and she was left in shock and fear of him.

6. Rachel Grey - usually portrayed as very powerful but not so skilled. she is definitely a powerhouse. even in some of her earliest appearances she was firing psi bolts as powerful as professor x, who was uncontested at the time as the most powerful telepath. she is stated to be more powerful than emma frost, and she stated while talking to professor x in avengers vs x-men that the 2 of them are the most powerful telepaths. In their fight in avx even though professor x beat her quickly he she does seem to have forced him to unleash his full power or something close to it based on their clash. When Quentin Quire was prying in her mind, she kicked faced him with such force that he started to get a nose bleed. She also stomped Xavier Junior in battle of the atom. she also went through every person's mind on the planet without cerebro. she also stomped mesmero when they had a fair fight and most recently took out an entire city's worth of sentinels when the stepford cuckoos could only do 1 street. She has also shown she is skilled enough to hide her team including phoenix namor from professor X, and eventually see past his illusion. She also gave teen jean a trick to help her hide from cerebro pill amped xorna jean and xavier junior. she also took down psylocke with one psi attack although it was a surprise, but has also been able to take control of storm despite her resistance. she had a number of low showings such as being taken out by mesmero but @koays has clarified the context well and I agree she was definitely vulnerable at the time and was the only reason mesmero got to defeat and control her. she's also been taken down by no-girl and madelyn prior but both times she was attacked while off guard. It speaks more on her battle readiness than her actual prowes as a telepath

7. Mr Sinister - seems to be portrayed to be somewhere along the emma and exodus level of telepathy but with less feats. He can block Emma the same way she can block him. His showings against x-man are not that impressive because he states he has studied his mind and knows his brain inside and out, it's like he has the blueprints and backdoor into his mind which is why he deals so easily with him.

8. Xavier Junior - managed to take control of the stepford cuckoos hive mind then also took control of 2 entire teams of x-men. he was unaffected by teen jean's psychic attacks, even towards the end of her stay and even while majorly injured and faced by the cuckoos and teen jean, he managed to escape from them

9. psylocke. stated in uncanny x-force to be the 3rd most powerful telepath and stated in astonishing x-men to be as powerful as any telepath. able to 1-shot deathseed archangel with a psi blast. in her younger days was able to resist mister sinister and harm juggernaut through his helmet. In later years, her psychic knife proved to be an extremely powerful tool allowing her to defeat people above her paygrade. She has defeated shadow king with it, she has fended off the attack of an amped shadow king with it and she was also able to break storm and archangel from lifeseed x-man's control. She was also skilled enough to shut down the legion personality infused multiple men with a power surge from jean grey. also able to rewrite mystiques personality.

my ranking stops here because i have quentin quire, teen jean and the cuckoos all at a tie. could change this if i give them more thought and a better look at their respect threads.

honorable mentions:

Shadow King. If i were forced to rank him I would give him rank 6, below Emma and above Exodus. As powerful as he is often portrayed, people neglect that he is always under some sort of amp or long planning and preparation, or manipulating the astral plane to get things done. He loves to set up networks and exploits them to gain power and control. He already lost to a young and inexperienced Xavier. He lost to KARMA in an astral battle. He also lost to Rogue, and lost to psylocke. Psylocke even managed to trap him in her mind and this was even before she became an omega class telepath. even amped by a network of psis psylocke was able to shield from his telepathic assaults and he had to resort to physical combat. he also could only gain a slight upper hand on ghost xavier. He was able to take down Emma Frost with a psi attack but was not able to affect her once she had gone into her diamond form. He has possessed people like rachel and psylocke, but in that same arc was resisted and lost to nightcrawler's will power. He has some high showings, but mixed with his really bad showings when not with prep or some advantage he doesn't stack up against the top gun telepaths. He may beat Emma Frost in a fight but she has shown to be more consistently good than him and is just overall a better telepath

Nate Grey - statements about his power put his power level higher than everyone else but he lacks the TP showings. He would have been an unrivaled beast if he was given the proper time and training.

Others I did not mention because of unfamiliarity or because they are irrelevant

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#37  Edited By Koays

@kenshiro3051996 Lol nah, trust me we all kinda enjoy arguing and reading the explanations of people and watching how that can change the outcome of a battle or a ranking like this.

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#38  Edited By del_torro

@koays: did it again. He tagged himself. Why does he keep doing this. This like the fourth time. Oh my...

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@del_torro: i...I dont even.... why does this keep happening??

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@koays: did it again. He tagged himself. Why does he keep doing this. This like the fourth time. Oh my...

koays conversing with the person he tags

No Caption Provided

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@corapvp: by AOA Nate do you mean during his time in the AOA only or all of pre-shaman Nate?

i did mean pre-shaman nate sorry for the confusion

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#43  Edited By coraPVP

@pyrofn said:


6) Madelyne Pryor: An often overlooked psychic due to her being a clone of Jean Grey and having been using Nate Grey as a crutch at one point in her history. Here is the thing though, this is the girl that survived the Astral Plane exploding and put herself back together within two weeks time, trapped Jean Grey in her mindscape and nearly consumed her, psychically sapped Nate Grey (Pre-Shaman) and converted it to match him in tk, shook the Astral Plane twice in her history just after being resurrected, and as a Goblin Queen (who those who did the psychics respect threads believe is under her regular appearance in X-Man in power) caused a psychic death that every psi on the planet felt. If she had more feats against other high tiers or done some impossible feats that none of the high tiers would easily replicate, Id put her as high as Jean.

Most of the things you said about Madelyne are vague things that mostly involve the astral plane which is a unique and hard to understand realm. Aside from trapping 90s Jean in her mindscape and catching Rachel by surprise, she has no feats against other telepaths. She has nothing to show for skill, no real telepathy feats. She is in no way above Exodus, Sinister and Rachel. All she has is vague instances of people feeling her and shaking the astral plane. Psylocke almost destroyed the astral plane. Nate has been felt by psi on earth and even gave them so much feedback they were in pain. Madelyne Prior. Nate has been called the most powerful psi multiple times, even the most powerful psi in all realities, yet he is not up there in telepathy. There is no reason Madelyne is 6.

@koays we don't usually see eye-to-eye but surely Madelyne does not deserve to be ranked higher than Rachel and exodus

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#44  Edited By PyroFN

@corapvp: The instances aren’t vague. In her fight against Sage, the amount of power she was using woke Jean up from her sleep because she felt “a massive agitation of the fabric of that dimension (the Astral Plane).” To agitate in one of its definitions is to briskly stir or disturb something, especially liquid. If you stir something briskly, the ripples are haphazard and wild.

Next instance, when she absorbed Threnody’s psychic energy (because psychic vampirism is Maddie’s ability as well), it put her back to full form and that rising caused a thundering across the Astral Plane felt all over the world. Thunder is a loud rumbling or crashing noise that comes after lightning. According to the narration, this was felt by men and mutant who had association with her because she was causing the rumbling on the psionic plane around the world. Though Maddie did this by absorbing psychic death energies, the power didn’t go away, so this became her powers permanently for a long while.

Let’s go by Pure Hax. Pre-Shaman Nate Grey tries to hold Madelyne with his tk, so in lashing out in panic and anger, Madelyne causes hot spots to spout lava as she struggles, which was causing Nate to hermitage. Jean comments that because she is draining him, she is his match telekinetically and presumably telepathically. This already puts her at Exodus level of power since she not only stalemated Nate, but while she is unconscious, Nate tries to destroy her telekinetically, which she not only resists but completely overpowers him, no longer needing him to feed her power. Jean tries to stop her, but Maddie casually blocks Jeans attacks.

More skill based feats, she has forcefully pulled Cable on the Astral Plane twice in his history. The first instance, she blocks Jean out from Cables head so as to not be disturbed. Jean doesn’t attempt to dive any further until later in fear of damaging Cables brain. The second instance is during the Twelve while Cable is trapped. While Apocalypse is there, she pulls Cable and Scott onto the Astral Plane without their knowledge until it’s too late and Madelyne traps Cyclops.

Want other feats against other psychics, way early in her history, before her psychic powers fully awakened, Psylocke was casually scanning the minds of soldiers in a facility for info, not in Madelynes vicinity. Meanwhile, Madelyne is trapped and is being psychically probed against her will, yet she fights back. Not only does the psychic fail in their attempt at reading her mind, but Madelyne unintentionally unleashed a psychic backlash that Psylocke feels from where she is. Psylocke felt the intense pain, yet knew that she wasn’t at the epicenter, knowing full well that whoever was would be killed, and she was correct.

Also, about the Astral Plane instance where she pulled herself together, there was nothing vague about it. It is literally tying into the Psylocke instance you mentioned. The very psychic wave that depowered psychics across the Earth. It destroyed Maddie’s psionic body, yet it only took Maddie two weeks to pull herself back together and find Nate Grey in Ireland. Nate was in Switzerland the last time he and Maddie talked.

Madelyne has also searched the world for signatures that matched Nate Grey’s from the AoA reality and found three. Dark Beast in New York, Sugar Man in Africa, and one other in Ireland. She did this from above Earth’s orbit.

She has also instigated a perfect illusion of Emma Frost that Scott could tell no difference between. This is the guy who was taught how to keep a black box that could repel psychics like Emma Frost our from Jean Grey herself. Not to mention the psychic training he has had from Xavier, yet Maddie waltzes in and fools him completely and Emma has no clue that Madelyne was in the vicinity. Madelyne even appears to Scott again in her own form and Emma doesn’t pick up on it. She literally asks Scott what’s wrong, despite being in the same club that Emma and Scott are in.

So, there is nothing vague or featless about Madelyne Pryor. She is frankly overlooked. Granted, there is a lot of context to consider with her, considering she is amped at some points in time, yet we are to disregard her skill feats because she gets a power boost? What she does with that power she drained?

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1) Shadow King

2) Xavier

3) Emma Frost

4 and 5) Cassandra Nova and Exodus

6) Jean Grey

Nate Grey and Stryfe are kind of hard for me to rank on here. I think I'd rank Shaman Nate just below Xavier, though, and ahead of Emma.

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coraPVP

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@pyrofn: all that astral plane stuff is just as I said, people feeling her or making rumbles in the astral plane. That does not make her high up the ranking list. The example of Maddelyne with Nate and Jean is TK, and it's also her using his own power, that's not a TP feat.

Pulling Cable to the astral plane twice, she did this as a ghost or astral being who operate differently than regular alive people and have a better manipulation of the astral plane just like the shadow king does.

Using TP on cyclops is not a high end tp feat. He doesn't have TP. Doesn't matter if he is well trained, he doesn't have high TP resistance.

The only thing of worth you mentioned is her scanning the world. Everything else is astral plane feats that don't directly translate to telepathy, TK, and affecting Cyclops

@del_torro@marvelfan1992@elpendejo@onsipin sorry to tag you but do any of you agree with Madelyne being up there based on the given reasons?

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@corapvp: Lol....well

See, I dont exactly feel like she should be ranked at all because every appearance of her is with a different power source and there is nothing to really support that she has a consistent baseline.

Then her direct feats arent exactly against the highest calibre of opponents. Cable, Sage, X-Factor Jean,....I mean for as powerful Nate is, he isnt even ranked that high.

That said If you wanted to establish an overall consensus of her feats, I could argue her being close to Exodus, Rachel and Sinister...but I have a problem ranking her over them based on being stronger then lower tier telepaths and making alot of noise before she fully knew her powers

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#49  Edited By del_torro

@koays: I'd say having a lot of good feats against High mid tiers like Sage/Cable/90s Jean, and a win against low high tier like Rachel is good enough to put her in low high tier.

I tend to look at her as composite (excluding inferno) though, so there's that.

I'd put around Exodus and Rachel and sinister, but above Xavier jnr, stryfe and Psylocke .

Her only meeting with stryfe was her as a ghost made up of psionic energy, inside a pyramid that channels all psionic energy into stryfe. Unlike stryfe she has shown that she doesn't need machines to drain people and reforming herself after her psionic energy had been dispersed.

So, on my list it would be

Charles

Jean

Emma

Exodus

Rachel/Madelyne

Psylocke /Stryfe /Xavier jnr

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#50  Edited By marvelfan1992

@del_torro said:

@koays: I'd say having a lot of good feats against High mid tiers like Sage/Cable/90s Jean, and a win against low high tier like Rachel is good enough to put her in low high tier.

I tend to look at her as composite (excluding inferno) though, so there's that.

I'd put around Exodus and Rachel and sinister, but above Xavier jnr, stryfe and Psylocke .

Her only meeting with stryfe was her as a ghost made up of psionic energy, inside a pyramid that channels all psionic energy into stryfe. Unlike stryfe she has shown that she doesn't need machines to drain people and reforming herself after her psionic energy had been dispersed.

So, on my list it would be

Charles

Jean

Emma

Exodus

Rachel/Madelyne

Psylocke /Stryfe /Xavier jnr

sage is not a high mid tier though, she's low tier. And her feats over Cable don't really seem like real tp feats, she just dragged him to the astral plane which has more to do with her being a psionic being that resides on the astral plane than her being a telepath (as you guys discussed in the thread how psi ghosts have more control of the astral plane), and besides, she only entered cable's mind because he had it open, and he broke out of her cage instantly. Nate pulled Xavier OUT of the Astral Plane, something entirely new that actually even gave Onslaught the idea of existing on the physical world, much more impressive than pulling cable into the astral plane. Nate's power is much higher than her's, but we don't give him a free pass for lacking feats just because is he the most powerful psi, and neither should Maddie get a free pass.

Her widespread illusion thingy in Uncanny 500+ was more her magic not telepathy. Emma states they used some kind of mixture of magic and psychic assault. Scott then says a few pages later 'the red queen was using her magic combined with the powers of her team and broadcasting them through empath" Maddie used magic, the psychic portion was referring to Lady Mastermind's psychic illusions, and the broadcasting was done by empath. That's one of the best feats on her RT and it's not even really a feat for her telepathy

Her best feat is against Rachel which is great, but 1 feat doesn't put her above Rachel and Exodus.

She's definitely below Rachel, Exodus and Sinister as a telepath. I personally would even rank her below Xavier Jr.

At the end of the day, i'm with Koays i don't think she should even be ranked at all