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#101 Posted by Elijah_C_Washington (4618 posts) - - Show Bio

@watcher5000:

How durable is Risk? Anyway it isn't like his strength is enough to hurt X-23 a whole lot or actually put her down.

In that same issue he withstood an explosion that wiped out a building and blew up a street and was lifting several tons of rubble at once with one arm.

If that is all then it wouldn't make a difference, since X-23 can hear his heart beat, smell him, and shown herself able to track people she couldn't see before.

Oversight on my part.

Ok I didn't see Cassandra until now in the scans so yeah I can see why that is impressive.

You think Laura could pretty much do the same thing if Cass wasn't there? It's ridiculously impressive, and Laura hasn't done anything comparable.

Still how is Deathstroke going to actually put her down? She has a healing factor better than wolverine's and has claws that can without a doubt go through deathstroke's armor.

Decapitation or straight up knocking her out in any number of ways. Slade doesn't have to actually kill her to win.

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#102 Edited by TheWatcherKing (18041 posts) - - Show Bio

@elijah_c_washington:

In that same issue he withstood an explosion that wiped out a building and blew up a street and was lifting several tons of rubble at once with one arm.

Alright

You think Laura could pretty much do the same thing if Cass wasn't there? It's ridiculously impressive, and Laura hasn't done anything comparable.

I have admitted X-23 isn't as skilled as deathstroke so it isn't like I am saying she could have done the same.

However I do think you are underestimating her skill a bit so here are a bit of her skill feats

X-23's skill impressed Tigra

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Is stated to be the deadliest assassin in the world

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Has no equal in combat

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Outperformed wolverine by over three minutes

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Knows 26 ways to kill someone without leaving a sign of attack

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So while deathstroke might be better she is definitely good

Decapitation or straight up knocking her out in any number of ways. Slade doesn't have to actually kill her to win.

I doubt he would be able to do either of those, at least before he gets stabbed dozens of times first.

And as for the decapitation thing as I mentioned X-23 has healed from being blown to pieces so she can heal her head.

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#103 Posted by Elijah_C_Washington (4618 posts) - - Show Bio

@watcher5000:

I have admitted X-23 isn't as skilled as deathstroke so it isn't like I am saying she could have done the same.

Understood. I was just trying to figure out why you didn't find it all that impressive, because it is ridiculously so.

I doubt he would be able to do either of those, at least before he gets stabbed dozens of times first.

Deathstroke is stronger, faster, and more skilled. I'm not sold on Laura being more straight up durable, but I don't think that counts for much anyway considering she has four sets of adamantium claws. That said, Slade's own advantages are why I'm confident he could outfight and decapitate/knock out Laura. He just has a lot going for him.

And as for the decapitation thing as I mentioned X-23 has healed from being blown to pieces so she can heal her head.

Seems like it took quite awhile for her to heal though. Seems like it took her out of whatever fight completely. The same would happen if she lost her head against Deathstroke. Just in case you doubt Slade would go for decapitation, here is an example of Slade doing just that as soon as he realized Facade could heal from lethal wounds in The Titans Vol. 2 #25 (2010):

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That is the exact scenario that would happen against Laura. I'm confident Slade could get behind her as well considering his ghosting abilities. Just look at how easily he can get behind or in front of people:

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Deathstroke the Terminator #23 (1993)
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Adventures of Superman #580 (2000)

Laura has her senses which would help her react to an attack from behind, but Slade's still faster. He only needs to split Laura's focus for an instant, and considering he's done so with comparable or better trained fighters like Cassandra Cain and even Green Lanterns, I don't think that's much of an order for Slade either. I'm still confident in Slade wrecking.

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#104 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18041 posts) - - Show Bio

@elijah_c_washington:

Understood. I was just trying to figure out why you didn't find it all that impressive, because it is ridiculously so.

Might be because I don't know the skill of the others that well.

Deathstroke is stronger, faster, and more skilled. I'm not sold on Laura being more straight up durable, but I don't think that counts for much anyway considering she has four sets of adamantium claws. That said, Slade's own advantages are why I'm confident he could outfight and decapitate/knock out Laura. He just has a lot going for him.

He isn't faster, I doubt deathstroke would be fast enough to get the edge over Spider-Man in a fight which she did.

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And deathstroke's durability doesn't matter for this since she can hurt him with her claws.

Laura has a far better healing factor, better durability,and has the means to hurt him easily if given the chance.Deathstroke doesn't know about how strong adamantium is and would probably when seeing her blades try to use his sword to fight her which is a bad move to say the least.Plus she has blades in her feet which he has no way of knowing till she uses them.

Seems like it took quite awhile for her to heal though. Seems like it took her out of whatever fight completely. The same would happen if she lost her head against Deathstroke. Just in case you doubt Slade would go for decapitation, here is an example of Slade doing just that as soon as he realized Facade could heal from lethal wounds in The Titans Vol. 2 #25 (2010):

Losing your head isn't comparable to to being reduced to nothing but pieces.Laura would be going for the kill just like deathstroke so his being willing to decapitate her gives him no edge over her.

What would deathstroke do if she goes for cutting off his arm like she did Rockslide?

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Or like deathstroke his head? I don't think he can heal back his head like Laura can if it gets taken off.

Laura has her senses which would help her react to an attack from behind, but Slade's still faster. He only needs to split Laura's focus for an instant, and considering he's done so with comparable or better trained fighters like Cassandra Cain and even Green Lanterns, I don't think that's much of an order for Slade either. I'm still confident in Slade wrecking.

But just like deathstroke, Laura has shown herself good at looking for weaknesses in people and would do that here if she needs to just like she did against Deathstrike.

I am sure X-23 takes the win.

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#105 Edited by Elijah_C_Washington (4618 posts) - - Show Bio

@watcher5000: Let's keep this up, it's fun.

He isn't faster, I doubt deathstroke would be fast enough to get the edge over Spider-Man in a fight which she did.

Deathstroke has held an edge over far faster people than Spider-Man. I've already provided him going untouched by Donna Troy while holding back, along with (a somewhat weakened) Cassandra Cain and Ravager who has confirmed superhuman speed. There's also his many showings against speedsters in which Slade's speed was explicitly mentioned along with the actual feat, such as his showing against Freddy Freeman in Teen Titans Vol. 2 #22 (1998) when he made him outright claim that Slade matched the Speed of Mercury or when he pulled a knife in time with a prepped, blitzing Bart Allen right before kicking him away claiming that he's fast too in Teen Titans Vol. 3 #5 (2004):

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The idea that X-23 hold an advantage over Slade is speed is total nonsense. Slade's raw reactions aren't even street-level, and he can see in slow motion and move faster than eyesight over considerable distances. Laura is just outmatched.

And deathstroke's durability doesn't matter for this since she can hurt him with her claws.

This is exactly what I said in the paragraph this was in response to. Glad we're on the same page, at least.

Deathstroke doesn't know about how strong adamantium is and would probably when seeing her blades try to use his sword to fight her which is a bad move to say the least.Plus she has blades in her feet which he has no way of knowing till she uses them.

Both good points. It's both probable and possible that Slade could lose his sword, unless we get into some Rebirth nonsense and apply his feat of cutting Superman in Deathstroke Vol. 4 #8 (2016) to his Pre-Flashpoint equipment and self. That said, Slade's powerful enough to force Laura to use her foot claws fairly early on, and he has the speed and skill to avoid a lethal strike, which is on top of a healing factor that could heal him up anyway. Slade still has his battle staff which he could use to blast a hole clean through Laura or torch her nervous system, which would give him time to knock her out. My earlier argument that Slade could just get behind her and cut her head off is viable as well.

Losing your head isn't comparable to to being reduced to nothing but pieces.Laura would be going for the kill just like deathstroke so his being willing to decapitate her gives him no edge over her.

I think you're missing the point, which is that it would still take her out of the fight entirely.

What would deathstroke do if she goes for cutting off his arm like she did Rockslide?

Dodge the strike? Laura surely isn't the first person who's ever thought about dismembering him. It hasn't happened yet for a reason.

But just like deathstroke, Laura has shown herself good at looking for weaknesses in people and would do that here if she needs to just like she did against Deathstrike.

I don't think Laura is as good as detecting weaknesses as Slade. Deathstroke has shattered missile-proof glass simply because "everything has a weak-spot" in Faces of Evil: Deathstroke (2009):

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But perhaps sensing stress points isn't exactly what you meant. Deathstroke has a won a tug of war with Donna Troy (who could stop speeding semis with one hand at the time) and thrown her into Starfire (who can lift elephants with one arm) just because of her footing in The New Teen Titans Vol. 1 #2 (1980) as well as having knee-capped Bart Allen because he stopped running for a mere moment in Teen Titans Vol. 3 #2 (2003):

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I don't think Laura could replicate any of this, which is why I think Slade is far more likely to capitalize on an opening or weakness in Laura well before she ever finds one in him.

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#106 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

Deathstroke. Laura can still be knocked out, and her durability is still that of a human.

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#107 Edited by TheWatcherKing (18041 posts) - - Show Bio

@elijah_c_washington:

Deathstroke has held an edge over far faster people than Spider-Man. I've already provided him going untouched by Donna Troy while holding back, along with (a somewhat weakened) Cassandra Cain and Ravager who has confirmed superhuman speed. There's also his many showings against speedsters in which Slade's speed was explicitly mentioned along with the actual feat, such as his showing against Freddy Freeman in Teen Titans Vol. 2 #22 (1998) when he made him outright claim that Slade matched the Speed of Mercury or when he pulled a knife in time with a prepped, blitzing Bart Allen right before kicking him away claiming that he's fast too in Teen Titans Vol. 3 #5 (2004):

Him tagging Bart is extreme levels of pis as bart allen is as fast as wally was after he broken his mental barriers but before he went into the speed force.

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And I am sure the "speed of Mercury" statement is hyperbole.

Nightwing and Batman although less powerful than deathstroke have shown themselves fast enough to tag deathstroke time and time again I am sure Laura can.

The idea that X-23 hold an advantage over Slade is speed is total nonsense. Slade's raw reactions aren't even street-level, and he can see in slow motion and move faster than eyesight over considerable distances. Laura is just outmatched.

Captain America can see things in slow motion and faster than eyesight over distances and he is faster than Laura or wolverine in combat.And in combat X-23 and Logan shown they can move faster than the eye can see.

I think you're missing the point, which is that it would still take her out of the fight entirely.

I am saying she was only taken out of the fight with much more extreme measures than decapitation.She has been reduced to a pile of bones and came back real quick.

I don't think Laura is as good as detecting weaknesses as Slade. Deathstroke has shattered missile-proof glass simply because "everything has a weak-spot" in Faces of Evil: Deathstroke (2009):

I am not sure who is better at it but X-23 does this quite easily as it is a natural response for her as she stated in Avengers Arena issue 8

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But perhaps sensing stress points isn't exactly what you meant. Deathstroke has a won a tug of war with Donna Troy (who could stop speeding semis with one hand at the time) and thrown her into Starfire (who can lift elephants with one arm) just because of her footing in The New Teen Titans Vol. 1 #2 (1980) as well as having knee-capped Bart Allen because he stopped running for a mere moment in Teen Titans Vol. 3 #2 (2003):

He wasn't moving at all when deathstroke got him

I don't think Laura could replicate any of this, which is why I think Slade is far more likely to capitalize on an opening or weakness in Laura well before she ever finds one in him.

That would take time though,and he isn't going to be able to dodge all of her attacks long enough to find it out. If the fight lasted a long time I could see it happening but he will get tagged by her even it if takes time as she will kill him.

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#108 Edited by Elijah_C_Washington (4618 posts) - - Show Bio

@watcher5000: Honestly do you just want to CaV it at this point

Him tagging Bart is extreme levels of pis as bart allen is as fast as wally was after he broken his mental barriers but before he went into the speed force.

It's not PIS. Deathstroke's raw, knee-jerk reactions have been proven to be above street-level consistently throughout his decades of appearances, although not necessarily Flash-level. If he was actually on par with Bart Allen he could've just stabbed him with that knife instead of using it to distract him, but instead he couldn't. A certain level of surprise went into it too, but none of that takes away from the fact that Slade was still fast enough to pull that knife.

And I am sure the "speed of Mercury" statement is hyperbole.

Seemed like Captain Marvel Jr. was pretty clearly comparing Deathstroke's speed to his own to me. What evidence do you have that it was hyperbole? Slade had literally just outreacted him, and Freddy attacked him from behind at that. Even if it was hyperbole, the fact that Freddy would even say that proves that the idea of Slade being slower than Laura is just ridiculous, especially when considering that Slade has recieved similar comments from various Flashes and even Superman.

Nightwing and Batman although less powerful than deathstroke have shown themselves fast enough to tag deathstroke time and time again I am sure Laura can.

A: This is kinda just wrong. Nightwing has plot-power when he goes up against Deathstroke, but he has outright failed to touch Slade when the latter got serious in The New Titans #86 (1992), and this wasn't the only time Slade showed complete physical domination over him. Deathstroke has given Batman free hits but still wrecked him faster than he could defend himself in Detective Comics Vol. 1 #710 (1997):

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B: This is the short one. Nightwing does have better showings against Slade than that one, but Slade is kind of a jobber sometimes yet he more consistently performs on a level that Nightwing has never reached. Dick gets completely trashed more consistently, and it also just makes more sense for their fights to go down that way. I'm sure Laura has been tagged by fodder just as Slade has, but they both perform way higher than that normally.

C: You're missing the difference between raw reflexes, overall movement/combat speed, and perception. Deathstroke's raw reflexes, the ones that let him fight Flashes and whatnot, are the movements Slade performs on instinct and without actually thinking. He's never been able to sustain a lengthy fight at that level, but he's certainly able to perform one sharp movement that gives him an edge over whoever he's fighting. His overall movement speed is what he uses when he fights people like Nightwing and Batman, and in the instances you're presumably referring to (Deathstroke the Terminator #7, etc) it was brought down a bit. I've already mentioned citations for Slade fighting at faster-than-thought speeds as well as scans of him moving faster-than-eyesight. His raw perception is at the level that he can see in slow motion and blatantly register heat vision coming at him. On a consistent basis, he is much too fast for the likes of Nightwing and Batman.

Captain America can see things in slow motion and faster than eyesight over distances and he is faster than Laura or wolverine in combat.And in combat X-23 and Logan shown they can move faster than the eye can see.

Deathstroke's "seeing faster" moments are a lot more detailed than Cap's, The New Titans #73 (1991) being the prime example:

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And while they've all moved faster-than-eyesight, I've never seen any of those three do it to the following degree, though some Wolverine scans come close:

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I am saying she was only taken out of the fight with much more extreme measures than decapitation.She has been reduced to a pile of bones and came back real quick.

I've seen the scans but could I have an issue number for this feat?

He wasn't moving at all when deathstroke got him

That much is indisputable. You're missing the point.

That would take time though,and he isn't going to be able to dodge all of her attacks long enough to find it out. If the fight lasted a long time I could see it happening but he will get tagged by her even it if takes time as she will kill him.

Well for starters I'm still prone to Slade splitting her attention and winning as he's done to Hal Jordan twice, but whatever. If Slade went down here it would be in an incredibly long lasting fight. They both have comparable physicals and healing factors that would keep them in the fight through each other's respective attacks. If Laura did win, it would all be due to Laura picking him apart over time as @llehdevil said, as she heals a lot faster.

Bottom line, I think I've provided enough feats to prove that Slade just performs on a higher level than Laura and I don't believe her healing factor is going to be enough to secure a win for a majority.

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#109 Posted by Amonfire1776 (2750 posts) - - Show Bio

Slade with Prep...X-23 in a random encounter...

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#110 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18041 posts) - - Show Bio

@elijah_c_washington: Honestly do you just want to CaV it at this point

Might as well honestly.But after it would be after this week.

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#111 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18041 posts) - - Show Bio

@elijah_c_washington: actually you can make the thread for it if you want I will just respond when I am able to.

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#112 Posted by The_Magister (13020 posts) - - Show Bio

Slade.

Online
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#113 Posted by Lord_Adamantium (425 posts) - - Show Bio

Deathstroke.

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#114 Posted by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

Deathstroke. Laura can still be knocked out, and her durability is still that of a human.

Actually, that's not true. X-23 was made to be more superior than Wolverine himself, and it exceeded. She was literally born to be a killer.

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#115 Posted by zackg (1116 posts) - - Show Bio

Slade's feats from previous continuities can not be used. Because the current DS didn't do those. Anyway if fricken Green Arrow and Dick Grayson can hit Slade Laura can, and all its really going to take is like 3 hits. His head is able to become disconnected from its spine.

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#116 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85 said:

Deathstroke. Laura can still be knocked out, and her durability is still that of a human.

Actually, that's not true. X-23 was made to be more superior than Wolverine himself, and it exceeded. She was literally born to be a killer.

In movement, training and conscious pain tolerance, not in actual physical durability. Her bones and skin aren't hardened, the bones would have been if she had remained with the Facility but the rest was supposed to be dealt with by her healing factor. None of that is really going to help her if Slade hits her in just the right place... which he tends to do.

@zackg said:

Slade's feats from previous continuities can not be used. Because the current DS didn't do those. Anyway if fricken Green Arrow and Dick Grayson can hit Slade Laura can, and all its really going to take is like 3 hits. His head is able to become disconnected from its spine.

Perhaps you should know this thread is 8 years old.

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#117 Posted by tj849 (8569 posts) - - Show Bio

Slade takes this

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#118 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18041 posts) - - Show Bio

Deathstroke

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#119 Posted by JamesWayne (946 posts) - - Show Bio

@rhysdurden: Laura is superior in speed, agililty and a faster healing factor. In terms of fighting skill, strength and the ability to tank damage, logan outdoes her. Overall in a on one one fight, Logan is the bigger threat, as an assassin, Laura is. Slade takes this imo, she doesn't have the skeleton, she'll get chopped up.

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#120 Posted by JamesWayne (946 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: I agree with you on movement, but I would point out that skill wise, when written not like a snarling idiot, logan is one of the top of the marvel universe in straight up h2h fighitng skill, on the level of daredevil, and bp. Laura is faster and agile, so she's more flashy, but logan is more skilled and stronger. and like you said, she heals better yes, but he tanks more due to the skeleton.

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#121 Posted by deactivated-5a89ca5697052 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio

Deathstroke in a surprisingly easy fight.

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#122 Posted by deactivated-59b65e7f9a0ab (65 posts) - - Show Bio

DS stomps

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#123 Posted by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

@rhysdurden: Laura is superior in speed, agililty and a faster healing factor. In terms of fighting skill, strength and the ability to tank damage, logan outdoes her. Overall in a on one one fight, Logan is the bigger threat, as an assassin, Laura is. Slade takes this imo, she doesn't have the skeleton, she'll get chopped up.

I agree with you but if Laura gets close to Slade, he will die.

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#124 Posted by Eto (5111 posts) - - Show Bio

Slade wins

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#125 Posted by Rusti (397 posts) - - Show Bio

Deathstroke. Much stronger, smarter, as fast & more experienced.

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#126 Posted by deactivated-5b2121a0a9a00 (10000 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll back Slade in a good fight.

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#127 Posted by tj849 (8569 posts) - - Show Bio

Slade stomps