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#1 Posted by never give up (24994 posts) - - Show Bio

WWH

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Gladiator/Hyperion

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Battle

Battle is won by death or KO. No BFR. Gladiator is at 100 % confidence. WWH is super pissed and wants to be left alone. Gladiator & Hyperion want WWH to answer to the destruction he caused. Gladiator & Hyperion aren't playing any games and want answers from WWH.

Okay, Fight!

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#2 Posted by Khael (15331 posts) - - Show Bio

Team

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#3 Posted by Toratorn (6309 posts) - - Show Bio

WWHulk will lose after a hell of a fight. If it was WB, then he would edge out a win.

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#4 Posted by green_skaar (12009 posts) - - Show Bio

WWH

Bad idea to not leave Hulk alone when he wants to be left alone.

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#5 Posted by never give up (24994 posts) - - Show Bio

WWH

Bad idea to not leave Hulk alone when he wants to be left alone.

Hulk is one of those characters to never mess with lol.

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#6 Posted by green_skaar (12009 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn said:

WWHulk will lose after a hell of a fight. If it was WB, then he would edge out a win.

Hulk can always go World Breaker if he gets angry enough or Banner stops holding him back. It's not like WB is some entirely new/different incarnation, it's just a certain level of anger/not holding back.

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#7 Edited by Toratorn (6309 posts) - - Show Bio

@green_skaar: that's one big "if". Considering WWHulk had trouble with unstable Sentry, and this duo would pose arguably bigger threat, along with the fact that Hype and Glad are not messing around here (and the fact that Glads will most likely blitz him), Hulk may not have the chance to go WB.

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#8 Posted by TheLoneRider (756 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the team can take him down

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#9 Posted by ComanderMurf (564 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think it's fair to use WBH in this scenario. We know who WWH is we saw him destroy countless heroes. If he is losing this fight and his only chance at victory is to become WBH the WWH just lost

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#10 Posted by TheLoneRider (756 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn said:

@green_skaar: that's one big "if". Considering WWHulk had trouble with unstable Sentry, and this duo would pose arguably bigger threat, along with the fact that Hype and Glad are not messing around here (and the fact that Glads will most likely blitz him), Hulk may not have the chance to go WB.

I agree and lets not forget that Glads starts the fight with 100% confidence.

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#11 Posted by green_skaar (12009 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn said:

@green_skaar: that's one big "if". Considering WWHulk had trouble with unstable Sentry, and this duo would pose arguably bigger threat, along with the fact that Hype and Glad are not messing around here (and the fact that Glads will most likely blitz him), Hulk may not have the chance to go WB.

I wasn't suggesting Hulk would go WB willy nilly, I was simply saying he can. I still think he can beat the duo as WWH frankly. His durability and regeneration are more than enough to counter their damage output.

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#12 Edited by Toratorn (6309 posts) - - Show Bio

@green_skaar: well, I am not into debate right now, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Wasn't arguing that WWH can't go WB at all. Just in this situation.

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#13 Posted by Warlockmage (8747 posts) - - Show Bio

Gladiator needs someone stronger than Hyperion with him

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#14 Posted by Darkbiscuit (2201 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk can probably take both simultaneously considering pre Sakaar Hulk was arguably on each of their levels. Hyperion is a weak link

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#15 Posted by Thedailybagel (12630 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk can take them

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#16 Edited by Jbourne_32 (2224 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the major question is if they can hurt hulk and the answer is possilbly, hyperion and gladiator are planetary in strength. Black Bolt's scream was also a planetary level strike and it hurt the hulk pretty good.

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#17 Posted by AtheistKnowledge (9595 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly he can take both of them, again the problem rises where WWH/Green Scar has consistently taken damage greater then even these guys can dish out and he still wasn't stopped, he operates on a higher level then either.

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#19 Posted by lettsplay10 (20589 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Edited by MysticMedivh (32250 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc@god_spawn

This fellow above me (not lettsplay) has been going around calling people the n-word and other insults/swears. Check posts to see what I mean.

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#21 Posted by never give up (24994 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Posted by never give up (24994 posts) - - Show Bio

How does he know I'm black is the funny part lol!

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#23 Posted by mr-luxcipher (7593 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Posted by Toratorn (6309 posts) - - Show Bio

@atheistknowledge: not sure Hulk is on higher level. Hyperion stopped an Earth-sized planet going at 500000 mps, which should take hundreds more times energy than to blow up the Earth and Gladiator survived a star going Nova and tore black holes apart. Both of that sounds a little bit too much for WWHulk tbh. World Breaker, on the other hand...

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#25 Posted by green_skaar (12009 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn said:

@atheistknowledge: not sure Hulk is on higher level. Hyperion stopped an Earth-sized planet going at 500000 mps, which should take hundreds more times energy than to blow up the Earth and Gladiator survived a star going Nova and tore black holes apart. Both of that sounds a little bit too much for WWHulk tbh. World Breaker, on the other hand...

Those are all environmental feats which for most characters are WAY more impressive than their actual battle feats, which are all that matter here. Unless this is a contest to see who can stop Earth sized planets traveling at high speeds it's irrelevant.

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#26 Posted by GhostRavage (14944 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn said:

@atheistknowledge: not sure Hulk is on higher level. Hyperion stopped an Earth-sized planet going at 500000 mps, which should take hundreds more times energy than to blow up the Earth and Gladiator survived a star going Nova and tore black holes apart. Both of that sounds a little bit too much for WWHulk tbh. World Breaker, on the other hand...

Hulk already overpowered Hyperion and those feats are nothing more than extremely high outliers for Gladiator, he was consistently portrayed significantly underneath that caliber and ultimately proved to be slightly below Savage Hulk in physicals, not to mention that one of the feats you mentioned happened off panel.

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#27 Posted by Toratorn (6309 posts) - - Show Bio

@green_skaar: environmental feats nothing. Overcoming the gravitational binding of a black hole and stopping a planet at going at high speed is pretty much better than any Hulk's physical feats (barring busting the planet in Dark Dimension, but that was World Breaker). Besides, Hyperion busting through Terminus who was owning Thor is kinda impressive, and same goes to stomping enraged Namor, who have beaten Savage Hulk at least three times in past.

@ghostravage: he didn't. The fight didn't go on long enough to determine a clear winner, and Hyperion certainly wasn't going all-out. The best thing Hulk did to him was bloodying his lip. Gladiator lost to Hulk because of being weakened by radiation btw. And Glads' confidence has improved over the years - he has better feats, like snapping classic Hyperion's neck, overpowering Nova Prime, fighting on par with 1/5 Phoenix Colossus (and it took two other Phoenixes to bring him down, and just 1/5 Phoenix Namor almost tore Rulk's arm off, while just 1/5 Phoenix Emma wrecked Thor), and Thanos deemed him more dangerous than Surfer and BRB, promptly BFRing H for his trouble. Even tho tearing apart black holes happened off-panel, other impressive feats I listed did not. Oh and of course, be busted planet on-panel. That should count for something. Considering OP said he is 100% confident here, all these feats and more should apply here.

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#28 Posted by AtheistKnowledge (9595 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn said:

@atheistknowledge: not sure Hulk is on higher level. Hyperion stopped an Earth-sized planet going at 500000 mps, which should take hundreds more times energy than to blow up the Earth and Gladiator survived a star going Nova and tore black holes apart. Both of that sounds a little bit too much for WWHulk tbh. World Breaker, on the other hand...

Well apart from Hulk already overpowering Hyperion, Hickman the guy that gave all those feats to Hyperion, straight up came out and said when asked about Hyperion, Hulk and Thor. He said Hulk is the strongest, Thor is the one he likes to write the most and Hyperion is the one he will give the most feats too seeing as he was the only one without a solo series at the time. The Gladiator feats are outliers and high end feats that don't bode well with his consistent feats where he operates on a much, much lower level then that. WWH stopped a crazy Sentry who according to the writer was about to destroy and kill everyone and everything, he took a beating from ZomStrange where ZomStrange had enough power to punch Hulk and shove his entire fist through his stomach, yet it didn't stop Hulk, he momentarily stopped Juggernaut with his physical strength alone, he inhaled a gas that releases as much energy inside him as 134 strongest punches Hercules can deliver, he took a planet shattering kinetic beam with nothing but a bloody nose, a 100 trillion ton punch with a smile, he took on teams and waves of heroes... Honestly Green Scar has consistently operated on a higher level then either Gladiator or Hyperion, in fact he was so crazy it finally took a Skyfather to bring him down.

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#29 Posted by green_skaar (12009 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn said:

@green_skaar: environmental feats nothing. Overcoming the gravitational binding of a black hole and stopping a planet at going at high speed is pretty much better than any Hulk's physical feats (barring busting the planet in Dark Dimension, but that was World Breaker). Besides, Hyperion busting through Terminus who was owning Thor is kinda impressive, and same goes to stomping enraged Namor, who have beaten Savage Hulk at least three times in past.

This isn't physical feat contest, it's a fight, and Savage Hulk has shown he can hang with either Gladiator or Hyperion, WWH is MUCH more powerful, and I still contend could beat them both. WWH has continued fighting with huge gaping wounds through his chest, healing in panels. Neither Gladiator nor Hyperion has shown that kind of damage out put.

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#30 Posted by GhostRavage (14944 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn: I think you're referring to their first encounter. I'm actually citing his short encounter during Superior Spider-Man Team Up #1 where he clearly overpowered him physically and easily. As per Gladiator, i don't know what you're talking about, he was fighting on equal ground against a weakened Hulk who had his healing factor taxed and his durability juming all over the place to the point of simple missiles harming him. Moreover, if you're going to use AvX encounters you might as well acknowledge the fact Hulk was able to ground Emma Frost when she had half the Phoenix Force with a simple smash and was also completely impervious to her attacks.

Squadron Sinister Hyperion isn't that great and he's been overpowered by Hulk as well, in classic days. Gladiator failed to harm Wonder Man significantly whereas Grey Hulk overpowered the shit out of him. Thanos didn't claim he was more dangerous but harder to deal with given he has the best physicals out of the Annihilators so he's a particularly special nuisance for Thanos, not that it matters because Thanos tanked several attacks that one shot'd both Thor and Gladiator in Infinity Finale. Do you really wanna go on just how "consistent" Gladiator operates on planetary scale? I can name several instances within an overwhemingly superior amount of feats that put him nowhere near Supernova nor planetary like you're suggesting. The feats you mentioned, although not applicable given how much of an outlier they are, are worthy of mention to claim he's not getting flat out humilliated here.

He's not beating someone who can ground Thor-Caliber beings within 3 hits, shrug off continental attacks like nothing happened, tank hits from Thanos with a smile on his face, walk through planet shattering forces (the size of Mars) with a simple bloody nose. Also, i didn't mention it but moving a planet requires MUCH less force than completely busting it and even then, Hulk already overpowered a force capable of kicking a planet out of orbit while he was freshly transformed as Savage Hulk. I'm not even going to address the Namor part on the paragraph above, he has increased his strength to the point he can punch Namor without trying that hard and shut him up with a broken nose as Savage Hulk, prior to 2006 when he became permanently amped to the point of being catalogued as the strongest Marvel Earth hero.

Do you know who also broke Red Hulk's arm quite easily? Doc Green, someone who is nowhere near Green Scar's level. You know what, i'm going into depth about this tonight.

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#31 Posted by jay_z94 (7941 posts) - - Show Bio

Team.

Without PIS, Hulk couldn't touch them as they're too quick and would speed blitz WWH. It will take a while, but eventually Hulk will go down, especially since a weakened sentry was able to take him down by himself.

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#32 Posted by silver_bullet23 (158 posts) - - Show Bio

If Glads actually backs up when using his eye beams so Hulk doesn't catch him he could win.

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#33 Edited by AtheistKnowledge (9595 posts) - - Show Bio

@jay_z94: Neither of them(especially Hyperion) have the speed feats to make them untouchable by Hulk. I want you to bring me a single speed feat from Hyperion that isn't travel speed that is too much for Hulk to handle. A weakened Sentry never took down WWH, and that "weakened" Sentry still had enough power to destroy everyone and everything around him and yet he still stalemated a holding back WWH. Though it's hard to even call it a stalemate since WWH was threatening to break a continent seconds later, while Bob was enjoying his coma.

@silver_bullet23 said:

If Glads actually backs up when using his eye beams so Hulk doesn't catch him he could win.

Or if Hulk actually jumps at him, instead of slowly walking towards him, he would have won even quicker.

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#34 Posted by Toratorn (6309 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn: I think you're referring to their first encounter. I'm actually citing his short encounter during Superior Spider-Man Team Up #1 where he clearly overpowered him physically and easily.

You mean when he was posessed by Carrion? When he hurt Hulk with heat vision, was throwing around Cap Marvel and Thor like nothing and casually shrugged off their attacks? And besides, Hulk didn't "clearly overpower him", he just smashed him into ground while he was distracted, and he laughed it off afterwards.

As per Gladiator, i don't know what you're talking about, he was fighting on equal ground against a weakened Hulk who had his healing factor taxed and his durability juming all over the place to the point of simple missiles harming him.

The only encounter of Hulk and Glad I remember was when Hulk hit him in ears casuing pain from loud sound, with Glad then burning through his chest with heatvision, but then becaming weakened because of flying into atomic reactor, and after that Hulk threw him in the core of reactor (and radiation is Glads' weakness), and after that Glads was blown away.

Moreover, if you're going to use AvX encounters you might as well acknowledge the fact Hulk was able to ground Emma Frost when she had half the Phoenix Force with a simple smash and was also completely impervious to her attacks.

Not really. She wasn't even hurt by that smash and immediately blasted him again. And if we remember other feats of Phoenix Five (Magik and Colossus stomping Thor, Namor taking an assault from Rulk, Thor, Thing, Strange, Giant-Man, tearing off Rulk's hand afterwards (not just breaking it like Doc Green did, but casually tearing it off with one arm while not even concentrating on Rulk and holding his palm, pretty awkward place for twisting it) and then no-selling Thor's hit from behind), Emma wrecking Thor, Cykes stopping Thor with a finger and then one-blasting him (damn, Thor sure couldn't catch a break from these assholes), someone of them ragdolling Rulk around, etc.) it becomes even more impressive that Glad was able to match Cyclops' blasts, dominate in fight against Colossus and take an extremely brutal beating from Colossus and Namor without passing out immediatly.

Squadron Sinister Hyperion isn't that great and he's been overpowered by Hulk as well, in classic days.

Not talking about Sinister Hype, but about classic Squadron good guy Hype. The one that matched Gladiator blow for blow, overpowered Wonder Man, who was at the time portrayed as Thor's equal, at half power dominated Supreme Power Hyperion (who was also at half of his power, but they should logically be comparable to each other at full), when SP Hype casually owned Ult. Thor, and exchanged blows with Thor on various occasions. But if we talk about Sinister Hyperion, who was outmatched by the good Hyperion btw, he was dominating Thor (hell, Thor is sure getting wrecked by a lot of people for the sake of comparison), making him resort to matter manipulation, and in recent Squadron Sinister (Secret Wars side story, and writer confirmed that this Hype was the same old Sinister Hype) straight-up one-shot SP Hype to death. And btw, Hulk didn't overpower him, he used thunderclap to hurt his ears.

Gladiator failed to harm Wonder Man significantly whereas Grey Hulk overpowered the shit out of him.

As I mentioned before, Gladiator had grown in power considerably over the years. Exchanging blows with Thor and stalemating classic Hype in old days is still better than losing to Wonder Man tho. Besides, WM losing to Grey Hulk sounds a lot like PIS for a Thor-level character.

Thanos didn't claim he was more dangerous but harder to deal with given he has the best physicals out of the Annihilators so he's a particularly special nuisance for Thanos, not that it matters because Thanos tanked several attacks that one shot'd both Thor and Gladiator in Infinity Finale.

He actually did. Still, the fact that Glads was considered stronger than BRB (who busted planets IIRC) is a good showing.

Do you really wanna go on just how "consistent" Gladiator operates on planetary scale? I can name several instances within an overwhemingly superior amount of feats that put him nowhere near Supernova nor planetary like you're suggesting. The feats you mentioned, although not applicable given how much of an outlier they are, are worthy of mention to claim he's not getting flat out humilliated here.

You see, I can say the same thing about Hulk being planetary. And considering how much more often Hulk appeared than Glads, his low ends will outweight his good feats considerably. I can admit that supernova thing is an outlier, but planet level Glads sure isn't. If he is, then planetary Hulk is also under a question.

Besides, why the hell is not busting a planet with three strikes, beating Thor-level opponents like Hyperion, one-shotting Binary, keeping up with Phoenix Five members, humilating Nova and Vulcan and other good stuff not enough for him to be planetary for you? Seems like too much for simple outliers.

He's not beating someone who can ground Thor-Caliber beings within 3 hits, shrug off continental attacks like nothing happened, tank hits from Thanos with a smile on his face, walk through planet shattering forces (the size of Mars) with a simple bloody nose.

Continental attacks are not something to worry about when you can bust planets with your bare hands. Not sure where are you getting the grounding-Thor-caliber-being-with-3-shots thing, but Glads encounter with Phoenix five puts him solidly above Thor. As for Thanos thing, when amped Annihilus beat Glads, Thanos remarked he did it much more efficently than he would have, plus Thanos not willing to fight Glads physically despite wrecking Annihilators also speaks volumes. And btw, Hulk smiling off Thanos' punch sure doesn't sound like outlier, considering several punches of Mad Titan were enough to KO Surfer and beat around Thor with warrior madness.

Also, i didn't mention it but moving a planet requires MUCH less force than completely busting it

Aaaand here you are wrong. You see, to overcome the kinetic energy of Earth-sized planet moving at velocity of 500000 mps you need to exert somewhere near 1.5E+35 joules (that's basic physics). To destroy Earth (or basically overcome Earths' gravitational binding energy) you need to exert 2.2E+32 joules (Earth's GBE, minimum energy to destroy it). So yeah, Hyperion stopping the Rogue Planet is much more impressive than simple planet-busting.

and even then, Hulk already overpowered a force capable of kicking a planet out of orbit while he was freshly transformed as Savage Hulk.

Fair enough. Not sure that would beat Hyperion's feat tho.

I'm not even going to address the Namor part on the paragraph above, he has increased his strength to the point he can punch Namor without trying that hard and shut him up with a broken nose as Savage Hulk,

Fair enough, I suppose. However, Namor had a lot of good feats in modern times as well (dominating Rulk underwater, hurting guys like Sentry, Ikaris and Herc with attacks, taking Black Bolt's scream and living), so Hyperion taking attacks from enraged Namor without any harm (while not even fully exerting himself during the fight) and then decapitating him in such a casual way is still a wildly impressive feat.

him is a prior to 2006 when he became permanently amped to the point of being catalogued as the strongest Marvel Earth hero.

Eh, everyone and their mother were called the strongest Marvel hero/person/being etc. Tho I get your point.

Do you know who also broke Red Hulk's arm quite easily? Doc Green, someone who is nowhere near Green Scar's level. You know what, i'm going into depth about this tonight.

Adressed above.

Damn, that's a huge lot of text.

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#35 Posted by Toratorn (6309 posts) - - Show Bio

Well apart from Hulk already overpowering Hyperion, Hickman the guy that gave all those feats to Hyperion, straight up came out and said when asked about Hyperion, Hulk and Thor. He said Hulk is the strongest, Thor is the one he likes to write the most and Hyperion is the one he will give the most feats too seeing as he was the only one without a solo series at the time. The Gladiator feats are outliers and high end feats that don't bode well with his consistent feats where he operates on a much, much lower level then that. WWH stopped a crazy Sentry who according to the writer was about to destroy and kill everyone and everything, he took a beating from ZomStrange where ZomStrange had enough power to punch Hulk and shove his entire fist through his stomach, yet it didn't stop Hulk, he momentarily stopped Juggernaut with his physical strength alone, he inhaled a gas that releases as much energy inside him as 134 strongest punches Hercules can deliver, he took a planet shattering kinetic beam with nothing but a bloody nose, a 100 trillion ton punch with a smile, he took on teams and waves of heroes... Honestly Green Scar has consistently operated on a higher level then either Gladiator or Hyperion, in fact he was so crazy it finally took a Skyfather to bring him down.

Hickman also said that Hyperion tanking the destruction of two universes and then Hulk harming him was on purpose. Authors are not really a good proof of characters' power levels, especially when that's countradicted in story with such frequency.

Gladiator talk - look in my post above.

WWHulk didn't stop crazy Sentry, he stalemated with unstable Sentry. The one with least impressive feats. ZomStrange was holding back tremendously and was specifically not trying to kill Hulk. Hell, he even stated he can do that easily, but did not. He didn't stop Juggernaut (unless you mean depowered one, which is not impressive), he only redirected his path. Oh and btw. I know people are gonna bash on me for that, but hear me out. In WWH What-If (can already hear you shouting "non-canon!") where Thor fought WWHulk instead of Sentry, they were portrayed as equals and matched against each other fairly well. Now I know this isn't canon, however, considering the differentiation from the 616 universe happened only during WWH, it pretty much means that everything that happened on Earth-616 happened in that universe as well, with Thor and Hulk having the same feats like in canon. It basically means that canon Thor faced canon WWHulk, just in another universe. Point being, no, WWHulk doesn't operate on a level higher than Thor, Glads or Hype.

All these feats are good and all, but I have already explained above that Hyperion stopping Rogue Planet is way more impressive than that. Same with Glads punching planet apart in 3 blows and regulary keeping up with people equal or superior to Thor.

And what skyfather are you talking about? Sentry, who was unstable? Nah.

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#36 Posted by deactivated-59dfd33ed3601 (5575 posts) - - Show Bio

Team

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#37 Posted by APEX_pretador (19116 posts) - - Show Bio

team

Gladiator can take it alone IMO but wbh will destroy them.

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#38 Posted by never give up (24994 posts) - - Show Bio

team

Gladiator can take it alone IMO but wbh will destroy them.

Based on what?

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#39 Posted by phillip33 (3657 posts) - - Show Bio

Gladiator or hyperion should win one on one via speed blitz...

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#40 Edited by LlehDevil (7259 posts) - - Show Bio

@jay_z94 said:

Team.

Without PIS, Hulk couldn't touch them as they're too quick and would speed blitz WWH. It will take a while, but eventually Hulk will go down, especially since a weakened sentry was able to take him down by himself.

This.

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#41 Posted by 20damon (6022 posts) - - Show Bio

I was leaning towards team until convinced otherwise.

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#42 Posted by APEX_pretador (19116 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador said:

team

Gladiator can take it alone IMO but wbh will destroy them.

Based on what?

Planet busting punches + Blitz + flight

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#43 Edited by GhostRavage (14944 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn:

You mean when he was posessed by Carrion? When he hurt Hulk with heat vision, was throwing around Cap Marvel and Thor like nothing and casually shrugged off their attacks? And besides, Hulk didn't "clearly overpower him", he just smashed him into ground while he was distracted, and he laughed it off afterwar

Yes. He didn't hurt Hulk, in fact, Hulk wasn't harmed in 6 different series as Indestructible Hulk and not even receiving Thanos's punch to the face managed to made him bleed. An atom slicing weapon and a weapon capable of hosting a star/supernova inside of it was the sole thing that managed to harm him during Infinity. He obviously overpowered Hyperion, with his planet moving strength easily and for someone who was actually controlling Hyperion to an unrestrained point seems like a valid scenario to claim he did overpowered him. Regardless, of course he's going to laugh it off considering he just grounded him in asphalt, is not like Hulk actually punched him, oh wait, Hulk did in their first fight and he was the only one who was successfully harmed there.

The only encounter of Hulk and Glad I remember was when Hulk hit him in ears casuing pain from loud sound, with Glad then burning through his chest with heatvision, but then becaming weakened because of flying into atomic reactor, and after that Hulk threw him in the core of reactor (and radiation is Glads' weakness), and after that Glads was blown away.

And that's actually their only encounter, the problem is Gladiator spent the entirety of the fight battling a weakened Hulk and they were just fine and dandy exchanging punches equally. Gladiator burned through his chest because he was weakened. Gladiator weakened himself after Hulk made him burst his heat vision inside of him thus making Hulk assume he's weak to some kind of radiation, ultimately exploiting it. That, however, doesn't change the fact Hulk was fighting him on equal ground for the entirety of the fight and no weakening was happening on Gladiator's side besides growing tired of fighting Hulk. Either way, i would encourage you to not mention that fight, it only serves Hulk's case here. Here's the context:

Hulk vs Gladiator

This is very often used instance by Superman supporters when arguing against Hulk, they say Hulk would be highly affected by Superman's heat vision because Hulk almost "died" by taking Gladiator's heat vision. The notion might seem applicable at first glance, but when a few contextual factors are mentioned then it doesn't seem right to claim such statements.

The statements start when this scan from Incredible Hulk Annual '97 is posted out of context in the forums...

No Caption Provided

In this issue Gladiator was fighting Hulk and the moment of using Gladiator's HV came and he was literally burning Hulk's insides quite easily with it, however, Hulk's powers were seriously fluctuating during this time, for the exact same reasons as Apocalypse restraining him... He was the nexus between 2 universes and the energies flowing through him were killing him. In fact, one of his most affected attributes was his durability which coincidentally was precisely what he lacked in this instance. This drop on his durability is first showcased in Deadpool #4 when he is harmed with with astonishingly ease...

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

The scans are self-explanatory, if Hulk is easily impaled by a street sign, then there's absolutely no doubt he was seriously affected. Which only makes Gladiator's instance even more impressive since Hulk fought Gladiator head on while having his durability and healing factor greatly dampened even taking his heat vision which is stated to burn as hot as the core of stars, which essentially, is even hotter than Superman's.

~GhostRavage

=================================================================================================================================================

Not really. She wasn't even hurt by that smash and immediately blasted him again. And if we remember other feats of Phoenix Five (Magik and Colossus stomping Thor, Namor taking an assault from Rulk, Thor, Thing, Strange, Giant-Man, tearing off Rulk's hand afterwards (not just breaking it like Doc Green did, but casually tearing it off with one arm while not even concentrating on Rulk and holding his palm, pretty awkward place for twisting it) and then no-selling Thor's hit from behind), Emma wrecking Thor, Cykes stopping Thor with a finger and then one-blasting him (damn, Thor sure couldn't catch a break from these assholes), someone of them ragdolling Rulk around, etc.) it becomes even more impressive that Glad was able to match Cyclops' blasts, dominate in fight against Colossus and take an extremely brutal beating from Colossus and Namor without passing out immediatly.

Of course she wasn't hurt, she had half the Phoenix Force inside of her and Colossus and Magik possesing just 1/4 of it managed to stomp the shit out of Thor. Either way, you're missing the point, Hulk wasn't harmed at all and actually stood there taking the full release of her attack head on without any visible damage whatsoever. Hell, let's analyze everything you're stating here.

  • Yes, Thor was stomped by both Colossus and Magik while having 1/4 of the Phoenix Force, but that was after he was beaten twice by the Phoenix Force itself as well as taking it against Namor and Rachel Summers.
  • Yes, Namor was actually taking on all those people and he was getting stomped like no one has ever stomped him before. In fact, he was getting harmed and bled quite a bit from every single attack he took including attacks from 90 toners like Thing.
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So let's not assume he as actually taking on everyone at the same time successfully. He was getting beaten, hard and buying all of their attacks to the point he was smacked down to the floor with a disfigured face. Regardless, he was concentrating on Red Hulk given that's his hand grabbing his thumb, but i do agree he was physically superior to break his arm easily, but not strong enough to take on Thor alone.

  • Emma wrecking Thor? Did we read the same issue? Thor stomped the shit out of her without breaking a sweat the entire fight and it was till her shattered pieces exploded up into orbit that she took him by surprise and ended the fight when he couldn't defend himself... I mean, i think you're twisting the fight quite a bit considering Thor took a really big dump on her previously.
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C'mon now, you're overrating Gladiator way too much while also underselling a character that isn't even involved in this match, even more so when you're actually counting every single time he was beaten. Is not like they overpowered Thor through physical means, they were clearly using the haxer part of their newly acquired powerset to beat him whereas Gladiator, well, they exchanged punches and they were all busting his face rather easily and he couldn't take a single one with him when Thor already beat the shit out of one of them solo and was about to do so again on Namor.

I sincerely don't know what's impressive about taking a beating, he surely didn't harm any of them whereas Thor:

  1. Beat the shit out of Emma Frost.
  2. Was taking on both Colossus and Magik while having 1/4 of the Phoenix Force each for a prolonged fight.
  3. Harmed Namor and was fighting on equal ground against him.
  4. Beat the Phoenix Force the first time they fought each other.

If there's anyone impressive is Thor and the fact Emma while having half the phoenix Force couldn't even scratch Hulk is much more impressive than taking a beating into helplessness, i mean, he couldn't even send Cyclops flying whereas Hulk put Emma underwater through several layers of ground with a smash.

Not talking about Sinister Hype, but about classic Squadron good guy Hype. The one that matched Gladiator blow for blow, overpowered Wonder Man, who was at the time portrayed as Thor's equal, at half power dominated Supreme Power Hyperion (who was also at half of his power, but they should logically be comparable to each other at full), when SP Hype casually owned Ult. Thor, and exchanged blows with Thor on various occasions. But if we talk about Sinister Hyperion, who was outmatched by the good Hyperion btw, he was dominating Thor (hell, Thor is sure getting wrecked by a lot of people for the sake of comparison), making him resort to matter manipulation, and in recent Squadron Sinister (Secret Wars side story, and writer confirmed that this Hype was the same old Sinister Hype) straight-up one-shot SP Hype to death. And btw, Hulk didn't overpower him, he used thunderclap to hurt his ears.

The only classic Hyperion is Squadron Sinister's Hyperion, Earth-616 Hyperion who is actually more impressive than Earth-712 Hyperion, who Gladiator stomped when he actually tried. The same Hyperion was unable to overpower Thor during Avengers vol.3 #5 and he was easily smacked away and actually needed help from power princess to overpower him. Also, in the same issue he was battling Ionic Wonder Man toe to toe without any overpowering the other and the same character failed to harm Hulk when he was teamed up with Vision, Iron Man and Scarlet Witch during Hulk #7...

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I wonder when Earth-712 Hyperion battled Wonder Man outside the previously mentioned issue because if you're referring to Wonder Man almost having all his bones broken in a single hit, it was also Squadron Sinister Hyperion who then again was overpowered by Hulk during Defenders vol.1 #13 and the narration clearly confirms so when Valkyrie is failing to do anything whereas Hulk is doing "plenty" and Hyperion is seeing overpowered after clashing into seismic chaos with Hulk. The fight you're referring to happened in Defenders Annual #4 and Hulk not only overpowered him with a thunderclap, but actually KO'd him as well, i don't know, that doesn't speak much for Earth-616 Hyperion to be honest.

As I mentioned before, Gladiator had grown in power considerably over the years. Exchanging blows with Thor and stalemating classic Hype in old days is still better than losing to Wonder Man tho. Besides, WM losing to Grey Hulk sounds a lot like PIS for a Thor-level character.

Likewise, as i mentioned before, Hulk has also grown in power and this is a growth in power that is actually directly addressed in both World War Hulk: Gamma Files and Marvel Fact Files #5 respectively, the latter flat out confirming he's the strongest hero while reaching his highest level of strength possible.

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Where are those statements of Thor, Hyperion and others? You clearly stated everyone and their mothers have confirmation like this. Anyways, Wonder Man losing to Hulk might be living proof he's not actually a Thor level character... Probably much below him. I do agree Gladiator is a Thor tiered character, but i also can confirm Hulk is considerably stronger than that in this incarnation, in fact, in anything after the Core-Breach in Sakaar barring Doc Green.

He actually did. Still, the fact that Glads was considered stronger than BRB (who busted planets IIRC) is a good showing.

Is not a good showing to be BFR'd to be dealt with you later. Much less when the guy is absolutely and without a question stronger, more durable and deadlier than him. Either way, you're right, he did state that, not that he actually meant it IMO but the statement isn't unique, he stated the same about Hulk and how he always looks forward to avoid conflict with him.

You see, I can say the same thing about Hulk being planetary. And considering how much more often Hulk appeared than Glads, his low ends will outweight his good feats considerably. I can admit that supernova thing is an outlier, but planet level Glads sure isn't. If he is, then planetary Hulk is also under a question.

Not really, because the incarnation used here consistently operated on that caliber, like, pulling a planet 1/3 bigger than Earth together overpowering the seismic phenomena of a collapsing planet and shrugged off planet shattering beams of kinetic energy and they were big enough to be seen from Earth. He also busted a planet by cutting loose and fighting an equally powerful being, although, previously threatening the whole planet 3 times prior to that fight. Can you show me just HOW MANY TIMES has Gladiator operated on planetary caliber? Because i can show you him losing to Eric Masterson, failing to KO Wonder Man and getting knocked down by him, losing to Cannonball, getting KO'd by Colossus (issue written by his own creator), getting KO'd by Gambit's deck of cards (also written by his creator) losing to Hulk, taken out of the fight by Black Bolt and so on... All of that just seems incredibly consistent with him and portrays him nowhere near planetary as that single issue from Marvel Comics Presents #49 inconsistently portrays him... But i guess Marvel Comics Presents surely is reliable when showcasing those one-time instances considering Grey Hulk in Marvel Comics Presents #52 busted an asteroid twice the size of Earth with minor discomfort.

Hulk on the other hand has 8 different planetary feats and considering his caliber of strength varies depending on the situation, it is justificable for him to not be punching planets away all the time, much less when he subconsciously holds back through Banner. Gladiator clearly has 100% confidence at the start and during fights unless stated otherwise and operates nowhere near the level you're selling him here.

Besides, why the hell is not busting a planet with three strikes, beating Thor-level opponents like Hyperion, one-shotting Binary, keeping up with Phoenix Five members, humilating Nova and Vulcan and other good stuff not enough for him to be planetary for you? Seems like too much for simple outliers.

Ok, let me list you the reasons why he doesn't seem to be planetary according to those feats:

  1. He busted a planet in a single issue, as a guest character in a 5 page story, under a writer than never wrote him and he never did anything particularly similar under other writers including his creator who also happened to write most of his issues.
  2. Hyperion is not a Thor-Level character for a number of reasons and he surely lacks feats besides weak ABC logic to even fathom in putting him there. King Hyperion was taking a shit on him and the same guy failed to overpower a depowered Juggernaut, the same Juggernaut who also happened to almost die against a holding back World War Hulk.
  3. Binary is a Glass Canon, she has no durability feats to suggest she can withstand physical hits like other powerhouses.
  4. He didn't keep up, he barely fought them for a seemingly short amount of time before getting manhandled by 2 of them. He also failed to handle 1 of them whereas Thor literally scattered one of them into pieces all the way up into orbit without breaking a sweat and took on 2 of them powered up even further for a prolonged time not to mention, none of them have feats to suggest they are planetary. Gladiator seems to be below Thor and Hulk here, sorry.
  5. Hulk literally one shot'd Nova across the United States as Kluh.
  6. Vulcan is the only feat worth the mention here and i sincerely don't know why it should be enough to put him on planetary scale if Vulcan has no planetary level feats in the physical department to compare with Gladiator.

Those feats are not outliers, you're picturing them to be too high instead of what they truly are.

Continental attacks are not something to worry about when you can bust planets with your bare hands. Not sure where are you getting the grounding-Thor-caliber-being-with-3-shots thing, but Glads encounter with Phoenix five puts him solidly above Thor. As for Thanos thing, when amped Annihilus beat Glads, Thanos remarked he did it much more efficently than he would have, plus Thanos not willing to fight Glads physically despite wrecking Annihilators also speaks volumes. And btw, Hulk smiling off Thanos' punch sure doesn't sound like outlier, considering several punches of Mad Titan were enough to KO Surfer and beat around Thor with warrior madness.

Oh sure, like he did that one time in that single issue... I'm getting the grounding Thor caliber characters within 3 hits from Incredible Hulk #110 when he literally hit Hercules just 3 times and he was already turned into a pulp, barely able to move and with a broken voice. Likewise, he took 133 of the strongest punches Hercules could deliver at the same time and he was briefly turned back to Banner and powered up rather instantly. Gladiator is not delivering that amount of force to even have an upperhand here, sorry.

As per Thanos, he almost KILLED Silver Surfer within 8 hits, he was exchanging punches with Warrior's Madness Thor when Thor had the Power Gem and he couldn't overpower him, in fact, in the same issue Infinity #6 Thanos not only humiliated the shit out of Thor, but also took him out of the fight with an eye beam and forwardly grounded him with a hook and blew him away later on with AoE energy release... All of this is accurate but that doesn't change the fact i'm arguing from a standpoint Hulk is much more durable and also significantly stronger than Thor, Gladiator, Hyperion and other characters so i don't see it as an outlier unless you're neglecting the fact he became much stronger after 2006, moreover, Hulk kept fighting with the weight of a star on his back, if doing the exact same thing Hyperion did while freshly transformed is not enough, doing something about 300,000 times greater is enough for you?

Aaaand here you are wrong. You see, to overcome the kinetic energy of Earth-sized planet moving at velocity of 500000 mps you need to exert somewhere near 1.5E+35 joules (that's basic physics). To destroy Earth (or basically overcome Earths' gravitational binding energy) you need to exert 2.2E+32 joules (Earth's GBE, minimum energy to destroy it). So yeah, Hyperion stopping the Rogue Planet is much more impressive than simple planet-busting.

You're right here and i honestly don't know why i stated otherwise... In fact, i did support this fact almost 2 years ago. Ironic right?

Fair enough, I suppose. However, Namor had a lot of good feats in modern times as well (dominating Rulk underwater, hurting guys like Sentry, Ikaris and Herc with attacks, taking Black Bolt's scream and living), so Hyperion taking attacks from enraged Namor without any harm (while not even fully exerting himself during the fight) and then decapitating him in such a casual way is still a wildly impressive feat.

It is impressive, not impressive when arguing against Marvel's strongest Earth hero, which also includes Thor, Hyperion, Blue Marvel, Juggernaut, Starbrand and a bunch of others, much less when those feats are easily replicable by any of the aforementioned on a normal sunday.

Eh, everyone and their mother were called the strongest Marvel hero/person/being etc. Tho I get your point.

Any reliable confirmation? Because as far as i'm aware, Thor already claimed Hulk was stronger than him, prior to the permanent amplification in power he received in 2006. Go ahead, i'll be waiting.

Adressed above.

Damn, that's a huge lot of text.

Yes it was. Hopefully this intensifies, being a long time without delivering a proper and insightful Hulk debate.

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#44 Posted by Khael (15331 posts) - - Show Bio

Gladiator or hyperion should win one on one via speed blitz...

Yep

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#45 Posted by reaverlation (25767 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn @ghostravage. But yet Superman would beat Hulk...you rustled yet???

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#46 Edited by Toratorn (6309 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: damn, son, you clearly took your time. I'm gonna read that and reply later cause my lack of sleep makes me see things already.

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#47 Posted by GhostRavage (14944 posts) - - Show Bio
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#48 Posted by reaverlation (25767 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Posted by GhostRavage (14944 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Posted by christianrapper (6008 posts) - - Show Bio

wow, these threads. he could lose to these guys one on one. together they destroy him.