WWE/WCW battle: John Cena vs Goldberg

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Army2442

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DQ is on

No outside interference

This is a One fall match. Pin fall or submission

WWE/WCW feats only

elimination.

Battlefield:

Hell in a cell ring

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Sovereign91001

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Eh, I'll go Goldberg.

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MasterAction

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#3  Edited By MasterAction

Yeah Goldberg- Cena rarely gets his ass handed to him, but Goldberg is something else

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Patera_All

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#4  Edited By Patera_All

If this is a prime '98 Goldberg, he was ALL about winning, thus the 100+ victories. Cena would have been fodder. Passed that, Goldberg would be the obstacle for Cena to overcome after an initial defeat.

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Mije_101

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Even if Cena was scripted to win, Goldberg would.

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Cregan_Stark

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If the WCW writers were doing it then Goldberg would curbstomp him and finish the match within 3 minutes like all of his other matches.

If WWE is writing it then Cena might lose the first match then in the rematch, Cena would be losing and fight back against all odds to win. You know, their go to John Cen story.

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IndomitableRegal

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Goldberg at the height of his popularity would destroy Cena regardless of who was scripting it. He was Brock Lesnar before Brock Lesnar. I don't mean current Lesnar, but Brock in his prime. That dude was an absolute beast. I think everyone forgets that the AA used to be called the FU and that was supposed to be Cena's version/answer to the F5 (back when Cena was a joke). Goldberg wasn't about gimmicks, that dude just won.

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dernman

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#9  Edited By dernman

@cregan_stark said:

If the WCW writers were doing it then Goldberg would curbstomp him and finish the match within 3 minutes like all of his other matches.

If WWE is writing it then Cena might lose the first match then in the rematch, Cena would be losing and fight back against all odds to win. You know, their go to John Cen story.

Considering WWE now owns WCW. :P

@indomitableregal said:

Goldberg at the height of his popularity would destroy Cena regardless of who was scripting it. He was Brock Lesnar before Brock Lesnar. I don't mean current Lesnar, but Brock in his prime. That dude was an absolute beast. I think everyone forgets that the AA used to be called the FU and that was supposed to be Cena's version/answer to the F5 (back when Cena was a joke). Goldberg wasn't about gimmicks, that dude just won.

Shhhh Wrestling is faaaaaake. He was a beast because that's what the scripters made him just like they could easily decide to have Cena win.

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IndomitableRegal

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@dernman: That's my point. At his height, he simply wasn't supposed to lose. Maybe this is more accurate: that guy was a "beast" (do the quotation marks help?).

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DBVSE7

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So is Batman not a god because his fights are written for him to win? :P DWIJK

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dernman

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#12  Edited By dernman

@indomitableregal said:

@dernman: That's my point. At his height, he simply wasn't supposed to lose. Maybe this is more accurate: that guy was a "beast" (do the quotation marks help?).

and John Cena is the face who overcomes. Cena might lose one match with an opponent but he'll win in another. They both have their things. It's like previous posters have said. If you're going to factor in one set of writers and how they script someone you have to use the other and how they script that person. It's like how they say now. It's like they are saying now John Cena has dominated in WWE the longer than anyone.

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dernman

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#13  Edited By dernman
@dbvse7 said:

So is Batman not a god because his fights are written for him to win? :P DWIJK

Nobody writes for Batman. The word of the Bat is shared.

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DBVSE7

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@leo-343 said:

I swear Goldberg never lost a match...

This. He won like 150 matches in a row without losing.

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IndomitableRegal

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@dernman said:

@indomitableregal said:

@dernman: That's my point. At his height, he simply wasn't supposed to lose. Maybe this is more accurate: that guy was a "beast" (do the quotation marks help?).

and John Cena is the face who overcomes. Cena might lose one match with an opponent but he'll win in another. They both have their things. It's like previous posters have said. If you're going to factor in one set of writers and how they script someone you have to use the other and how they script that person. It's like how they say now. It's like they are saying now John Cena has dominated in WWE the longer than anyone.

Yeah, but when Cena does legitimately lose, it's always to a powerhouse (like Lesnar, Undertaker, Batista or Sheamus) or he loses to a face that's even more popular than him (like Randy Orton, CM Punk, or The Rock). Goldberg at his height was both of these things. They wouldn't let Cena win. He'd beat Cena and they'd move on to have feuds with separate heels.

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ComicStooge

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Goldberg made fodder out of other top tier wrestlers like Sting.

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FoolsGold

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Goldberg lost to Booker T clean after he attacked him and Booker had fought a previous match. I'm sure Cena has beaten Booker before. Plus Chris Jericho put Goldberg in a Headlock backstage and John Cena has never been pinned by Chris Jericho. In fact John Cena pinned Chris Jericho in his first ever Pay Per View match.

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ComicStooge

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Goldberg lost to Booker T clean after he attacked him and Booker had fought a previous match. I'm sure Cena has beaten Booker before. Plus Chris Jericho put Goldberg in a Headlock backstage and John Cena has never been pinned by Chris Jericho. In fact John Cena pinned Chris Jericho in his first ever Pay Per View match.

Non-Kayfabe doesn't count.

Cena's been submitted by Jericho though.

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ComicStooge

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Goldberg lost to Booker T clean after he attacked him and Booker had fought a previous match. I'm sure Cena has beaten Booker before. Plus Chris Jericho put Goldberg in a Headlock backstage and John Cena has never been pinned by Chris Jericho. In fact John Cena pinned Chris Jericho in his first ever Pay Per View match.

I could just as easily give you at least 2 matches where HHH beat Cena clean, yet I don't think he could ever take Goldberg without help.

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Jbosh91

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#22  Edited By Jbosh91

Goldberg not even in his prime defeated Brock Lesnar at Wrestlelmania 20... Fast forward 10 years and you have Brock Lesnar dominating John Cena! This was all WWE writers as well.

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@foolsgold said:

Goldberg lost to Booker T clean after he attacked him and Booker had fought a previous match. I'm sure Cena has beaten Booker before. Plus Chris Jericho put Goldberg in a Headlock backstage and John Cena has never been pinned by Chris Jericho. In fact John Cena pinned Chris Jericho in his first ever Pay Per View match.

Non-Kayfabe doesn't count.

Cena's been submitted by Jericho though.

Really? I thought that Cena has only ever tapped to Benoit...

And Reign of Terror needed help to beat Orton and Benoit. Ironicially he did beat Booker clean at WM.

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No interference? DQ on? Goldberg takes it. There is a consistent theme to every match Goldberg has lost, and that's that the winner needs help. Whether it be a steel plate, a sledgehammer, or the nWo, all Goldberg's losses are to outside factors. Sure, the match is in Hell in a Cell, but both the match stipulations and Cena's CIS prevent him from doing what needs to be done to conquer Goldberg.

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dernman

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#25  Edited By dernman

@indomitableregal said:
@dernman said:

@indomitableregal said:

@dernman: That's my point. At his height, he simply wasn't supposed to lose. Maybe this is more accurate: that guy was a "beast" (do the quotation marks help?).

and John Cena is the face who overcomes. Cena might lose one match with an opponent but he'll win in another. They both have their things. It's like previous posters have said. If you're going to factor in one set of writers and how they script someone you have to use the other and how they script that person. It's like how they say now. It's like they are saying now John Cena has dominated in WWE the longer than anyone.

Yeah, but when Cena does legitimately lose, it's always to a powerhouse (like Lesnar, Undertaker, Batista or Sheamus) or he loses to a face that's even more popular than him (like Randy Orton, CM Punk, or The Rock). Goldberg at his height was both of these things. They wouldn't let Cena win. He'd beat Cena and they'd move on to have feuds with separate heels.

You're still not factoring how WWE scrips Cena. WWE always scrips Cena so he gets his rematch to those he loses then winning. It's as much a part of his shtick as Golberg. There wouldn't be any moving on. That's why I find picking a side silly. At least with comics characters you have more to go on than whose shtick is stronger.

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@comicstooge- Seen it. It was after the match. Doesn't count :P

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@comicstooge said:

@foolsgold said:

Goldberg lost to Booker T clean after he attacked him and Booker had fought a previous match. I'm sure Cena has beaten Booker before. Plus Chris Jericho put Goldberg in a Headlock backstage and John Cena has never been pinned by Chris Jericho. In fact John Cena pinned Chris Jericho in his first ever Pay Per View match.

Non-Kayfabe doesn't count.

Cena's been submitted by Jericho though.

Really? I thought that Cena has only ever tapped to Benoit...

And Reign of Terror needed help to beat Orton and Benoit. Ironicially he did beat Booker clean at WM.

Loading Video...

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dernman

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#28  Edited By dernman

Cena pinning Brock for the hell of it.

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I'm gonna actually say Cena on this. A great deal of Goldbergs' wins were against jobbers, and Hell, William Regal made Goldberg look like nothing for the first part of their match. Not to say Cena is even close to the skill of Regal, but I think his achievements and victories along with his own skill put him ahead of Goldberg.

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Loading Video...

John Cena pinning the Rock just so you can have him pining Brock and the Rock. :p

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@scouterv: If it was shoot I would agree 100%, as despite all the chants, Cena can wrestle really damn well. But given we're using WWE/WCW feats, Goldberg did win that match with Regal, and as has been said, prime Goldberg doesn't lose clean.

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ComicStooge

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@dernman said:

Cena pinning Brock for the hell of it.

Goldberg also pinned Brock too.

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#34  Edited By tensor
Loading Video...

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deactivated-59c716930b8a6

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Goldberg CURBSTOMP.

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#36  Edited By dernman
@comicstooge said:

@dernman said:

Cena pinning Brock for the hell of it.

Goldberg also pinned Brock too.

What's your point? I didn't show that as a reason to say John will win. I made what I thought about wrestling battles pretty clear in my last statement to indom.....something.

Edit: That sounded ruder than I intended.

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tensor

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#37  Edited By tensor

Goldberg is a monster.He was just fun to watch.

He would stomp John Cena.

Fear the spear.

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Goldberg

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IndomitableRegal

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#39  Edited By IndomitableRegal
@dernman said:

@indomitableregal said:
@dernman said:

@indomitableregal said:

@dernman: That's my point. At his height, he simply wasn't supposed to lose. Maybe this is more accurate: that guy was a "beast" (do the quotation marks help?).

and John Cena is the face who overcomes. Cena might lose one match with an opponent but he'll win in another. They both have their things. It's like previous posters have said. If you're going to factor in one set of writers and how they script someone you have to use the other and how they script that person. It's like how they say now. It's like they are saying now John Cena has dominated in WWE the longer than anyone.

Yeah, but when Cena does legitimately lose, it's always to a powerhouse (like Lesnar, Undertaker, Batista or Sheamus) or he loses to a face that's even more popular than him (like Randy Orton, CM Punk, or The Rock). Goldberg at his height was both of these things. They wouldn't let Cena win. He'd beat Cena and they'd move on to have feuds with separate heels.

You're still not factoring how WWE scrips Cena. WWE always scrips Cena so he gets his rematch to those he loses then winning. It's as much a part of his shtick as Golberg. There wouldn't be any moving on. That's why I find picking a side silly. At least with comics characters you have more to go on than whose shtick is stronger.

This isn't always the case when John is facing another...face. Sometimes, he just legitimately moves on. The fact of the matter remains that Goldberg at his height was an entity capable of beating John Cena clean. John Cena has a habit of getting his ass handed to him for the majority of the match, and then somehow overcoming insurmountable odds and winning anyway (barring some sort of interference or DQ). This is usually the case except for the conditions I already mentioned. If WCW is scripting it, Cena gets beat down. If WWE is scripting it, it has weeks, probably months of buildup. It takes place at some major PPV with a sold out arena. It becomes a "classic" and "one of the greatest matches of all time" as Goldberg manages to barely defeat John Cena via pinfall (and of course he can't fully stand right away). Cena sits up, but doesn't get out of the ring immediately. If their feud was more akin to a rivalry or just who's better, John may even get up, shake Goldberg's hand, and raise his arm in victory. If they truly "didn't like each other", Cena will admit the next night on Raw that Goldberg beat him fair and square and then some heel will come out to set up his next feud. If there's a rematch, it won't be for quite awhile. How much more do you want me to factor in the scripting?

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dernman

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@dernman said:

@indomitableregal said:
@dernman said:

@indomitableregal said:

@dernman: That's my point. At his height, he simply wasn't supposed to lose. Maybe this is more accurate: that guy was a "beast" (do the quotation marks help?).

and John Cena is the face who overcomes. Cena might lose one match with an opponent but he'll win in another. They both have their things. It's like previous posters have said. If you're going to factor in one set of writers and how they script someone you have to use the other and how they script that person. It's like how they say now. It's like they are saying now John Cena has dominated in WWE the longer than anyone.

Yeah, but when Cena does legitimately lose, it's always to a powerhouse (like Lesnar, Undertaker, Batista or Sheamus) or he loses to a face that's even more popular than him (like Randy Orton, CM Punk, or The Rock). Goldberg at his height was both of these things. They wouldn't let Cena win. He'd beat Cena and they'd move on to have feuds with separate heels.

You're still not factoring how WWE scrips Cena. WWE always scrips Cena so he gets his rematch to those he loses then winning. It's as much a part of his shtick as Golberg. There wouldn't be any moving on. That's why I find picking a side silly. At least with comics characters you have more to go on than whose shtick is stronger.

This isn't always the case when John is facing another...face. Sometimes, he just legitimately moves on. The fact of the matter remains that Goldberg at his height was an entity capable of beating John Cena clean. John Cena has a habit of getting his ass handed to him for the majority of the match, and then somehow overcoming insurmountable odds and winning anyway (barring some sort of interference or DQ). This is usually the case except for the conditions I already mentioned. If WCW is scripting it, Cena gets beat down. If WWE is scripting it, it has weeks, probably months of buildup. It takes place at some major PPV with a sold out arena. It becomes a "classic" and "one of the greatest matches of all time" as Goldberg manages to barely defeat John Cena via pinfall (and of course he can't fully stand right away). Cena sits up, but doesn't get out of the ring immediately. If their feud was more akin to a rivalry or just who's better, John may even get up, shake Goldberg's hand, and raise his arm in victory. If they truly "didn't like each other", Cena will admit the next night on Raw that Goldberg beat him fair and square and then some heel will come out to set up his next feud. If there's a rematch, it won't be for quite awhile. How much more do you want me to factor in the scripting?

Didn't read. I wish you could see how silly this is to me. I thought I made that clear in the last post. Come back to me when you have something more than my schtick is bigger than yours.

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IndomitableRegal

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@dernman said:

@indomitableregal said:
@dernman said:

@indomitableregal said:
@dernman said:

@indomitableregal said:

@dernman: That's my point. At his height, he simply wasn't supposed to lose. Maybe this is more accurate: that guy was a "beast" (do the quotation marks help?).

and John Cena is the face who overcomes. Cena might lose one match with an opponent but he'll win in another. They both have their things. It's like previous posters have said. If you're going to factor in one set of writers and how they script someone you have to use the other and how they script that person. It's like how they say now. It's like they are saying now John Cena has dominated in WWE the longer than anyone.

Yeah, but when Cena does legitimately lose, it's always to a powerhouse (like Lesnar, Undertaker, Batista or Sheamus) or he loses to a face that's even more popular than him (like Randy Orton, CM Punk, or The Rock). Goldberg at his height was both of these things. They wouldn't let Cena win. He'd beat Cena and they'd move on to have feuds with separate heels.

You're still not factoring how WWE scrips Cena. WWE always scrips Cena so he gets his rematch to those he loses then winning. It's as much a part of his shtick as Golberg. There wouldn't be any moving on. That's why I find picking a side silly. At least with comics characters you have more to go on than whose shtick is stronger.

This isn't always the case when John is facing another...face. Sometimes, he just legitimately moves on. The fact of the matter remains that Goldberg at his height was an entity capable of beating John Cena clean. John Cena has a habit of getting his ass handed to him for the majority of the match, and then somehow overcoming insurmountable odds and winning anyway (barring some sort of interference or DQ). This is usually the case except for the conditions I already mentioned. If WCW is scripting it, Cena gets beat down. If WWE is scripting it, it has weeks, probably months of buildup. It takes place at some major PPV with a sold out arena. It becomes a "classic" and "one of the greatest matches of all time" as Goldberg manages to barely defeat John Cena via pinfall (and of course he can't fully stand right away). Cena sits up, but doesn't get out of the ring immediately. If their feud was more akin to a rivalry or just who's better, John may even get up, shake Goldberg's hand, and raise his arm in victory. If they truly "didn't like each other", Cena will admit the next night on Raw that Goldberg beat him fair and square and then some heel will come out to set up his next feud. If there's a rematch, it won't be for quite awhile. How much more do you want me to factor in the scripting?

Didn't read. I wish you could see how silly this is to me. I thought I made that clear in the last post. Come back to me when you have something more than my schtick is bigger than yours.

Here's a question: why are you here? You responded to a comment I made and all you've done is complain about "scripting" this and "shtick" that, both of which I took into account in the first place. The only reason I went into more detail is because you apparently couldn't comprehend that a popular face that always mounts a comeback loses to an even more popular face that simply doesn't lose. If it's all silly then you shouldn't have responded in the first place and should just stick to the threads about the 100% fictional characters that change depending on who's writing them. I guess you won't read this either since you clearly lack the attention span.

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ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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Lol at people saying goldberg, he was a steriod abuser who couldnt wrestle and was one of the main reasons wcw fell so quickly

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#44  Edited By dernman

@indomitableregal:

Here's a question: why are you here? You responded to a comment I made and all you've done is complain about "scripting" this and "shtick" that,

Because I was curious how posters were going to debate this. Making a valid point about writing battles is not complaining but I guess that would be easier for you to think so.

both of which I took into account in the first place.

That's the thing. I don't think it's something that should be taken into account very much and without that what is left

The only reason I went into more detail is because you apparently couldn't comprehend that a popular face that always mounts a comeback loses to an even more popular face that simply doesn't lose.

What you can't comprehend is that all Goldbergs non losing scripting is only valid for WCW. Nor his account for his limited career or Cena's scripting to get his rematches and winning them. Further more as I pointed out I find it a ridiculous point. Give me something more than him not losing is his thing. You know who else doesn't lose. Undertaker at Wrestlemania...oh wait. Only difference between the two was his unwillingness to put anyone over and his short career ending because he was so difficult backstage.

If it's all silly then you shouldn't have responded

Who says? I responded because I thought your logic was faulty, silly which is half the reason people get into debates on a forum you debate on. I gave you a chance to do more with it, to change my mind and show me there is a good way. Isn't my fault you couldn't.

in the first place and should just stick to the threads about the 100% fictional characters that change depending on who's writing them.

OMG the irony is killing me. Like wrestling characters are at all real and don't change on a whim.

I guess you won't read this either since you clearly lack the attention span.

I actually did read it this time and I thank you for the laugh. No joke, not saying it for any other reason but I legit laughed at that last bit.

I went from mildly eye rolling to glad I came here.

Edit: That was so good that I'm going to leave here. It was a perfect high note to end things on. :D

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#45  Edited By TehStranger

Goldberg dominates the entire match and hits Cena with all his finishers only to have him kick out at 2 and hit the "FU" "Attitude Adjustment" "From out of nowhere" to pin Goldberg for the win.

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@dernman said:

@indomitableregal:

Here's a question: why are you here? You responded to a comment I made and all you've done is complain about "scripting" this and "shtick" that,

Because I was curious how posters were going to debate this. Making a valid point about writing battles is not complaining but I guess that would be easier for you to think so.

both of which I took into account in the first place.

That's the thing. I don't think it's something that should be taken into account very much and without that what is left

The only reason I went into more detail is because you apparently couldn't comprehend that a popular face that always mounts a comeback loses to an even more popular face that simply doesn't lose.

What you can't comprehend is that all Goldbergs non losing scripting is only valid for WCW. Nor his account for his limited career or Cena's scripting to get his rematches and winning them. Further more as I pointed out I find it a ridiculous point. Give me something more than him not losing is his thing. You know who else doesn't lose. Undertaker at Wrestlemania...oh wait. Only difference between the two was his unwillingness to put anyone over and his short career ending because he was so difficult backstage.

If it's all silly then you shouldn't have responded

Who says? I responded because I thought your logic was faulty, silly which is half the reason people get into debates on a forum you debate on. I gave you a chance to do more with it, to change my mind and show me there is a good way. Isn't my fault you couldn't.

in the first place and should just stick to the threads about the 100% fictional characters that change depending on who's writing them.

OMG the irony is killing me. Like wrestling characters are at all real and don't change on a whim.

I guess you won't read this either since you clearly lack the attention span.

I actually did read it this time and I thank you for the laugh. No joke, not saying it for any other reason but I legit laughed at that last bit.

I went from mildly eye rolling to glad I came here.

Edit: That was so good that I'm going to leave here. It was a perfect high note to end things on. :D

Wow. This guy...truly doesn't get it. I'm torn between leaving a real response and feeding the troll, or simply walking away. You realize that the parallel between wrestling and comics (i.e., changing based on the writer) was intentional right? I'd respond to your other "points", but I think I'm going to go with option B. What a waste of time....

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terry2012

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#47  Edited By terry2012

If the WCW writers were doing it then Goldberg would curbstomp him and finish the match within 3 minutes like all of his other matches.

If WWE is writing it then Cena might lose the first match then in the rematch, Cena would be losing and fight back against all odds to win. You know, their go to John Cen story.

Exactly.

@tensor said:

Goldberg is a monster.He was just fun to watch.

He would stomp John Cena.

Fear the spear.

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Drew_Tan

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Goldberg spears Cena right after Cena taunts him and pins him right after. Goldberg is Cena's physical superior and always will be.