@bones309 said:
@atheistknowledge said:
@bones309 said:
@atheistknowledge said:
@bones309: Back in the classic days, after that Hulk has received so many amps that even a weaker version of him that resides in Amadeus Cho resisted Enchantress trying to drop him like it was a walk in a park. So yea i wouldn't use that PIS/low showing from before. Since Hulk has resisted transmutations from beings on Thors to SS level. Bor did not have his magic defense up when Loki turned him into snow and judging by how Skyfathers are generally portrayed as overall physically weaker in strength and durability(something supported in the bio books) then someone like Thor(until they chose to magically amp themselves) i don't see Loki doing anything to Hulk.
Loki doesn't have a good way with dealing with the U-foes either, especially with all 4 of them at once.
Neither Loki nor Thor can take out Hulk, Hulk already even before his core breach amp has a positive track record against Thor and he also beat Loki twice before and this is WWH. I am tired of the too many powers nonsense argument when all Thor ever does is brawl especially in the past decade.
If Amadeus Cho can resist the Enchantress, it's not the same as Banner's Hulk. Captain America resisted her power right after she dropped the Hulk. Different people have different minds. Really I didn't want to get into the Hulk much here because this thread just stinks of another tired Hulk vs Thor thread that's masked with a few other people. I just found it silly that someone used the Enchantress vs Heimdall in this fight to argue the Hulk resisting Loki's power. Since the Enchantress has KILLED the Hulk with her powers. She's also not in this fight and Heimdall in the picture they used states it's the magic sword he has that stops her power.
You can argue the Hulk resisting some of Loki's powers but what defense do the U-Foes have against magic? Heck, what's to stop Loki from simply convincing them to help against the Hulk even without magic? What is the goal of the U-foes? Money? Power? To be turned normal again? Loki could easily offer them all and more. He's a master manipulator. Before someone says anything about prep time. He really wouldn't need it here. They already hate the Hulk I'm sure, Loki knows them, and they're hardly Thanos or Dr. Doom. If they refuse he can still likely use his magic to fool them into fighting the Hulk. The U-foes have either great durability or are pretty much intangible. It makes them good Hulk foes but Loki has powers that easily get past that. He could likely just turn them back to normal humans with ease.
I simply said they are more powerful than him. Something I'd think even the most diehard Hulk fan has to admit to some level. Just look up all their powers. How they'd fight him or how much their powers would effect him would clearly come down to the writers/editors to some degree. Loki and Thor could simplify teleport him into space. I'd say floating in space would count as incapacitating and there are no rules here against removing people from the battle field. Thor has done this twice to the Hulk that I know of, so it's not completely against his character.
But it is, the Hulk that Cho has is the one that Banner has. If Cap resisted her power it either works entirely different to conventional TP or it was PIS since Cap has nowhere near the same resistance to TP as Hulk. Needless to say Green Scars mind is a whole new level compared to Savage Hulks. Yes i understand that, but Enchantress killing Hulk some 40 years ago has about as much bearing as the time Abomination killed the Hulk.
Umm what? How is Loki gonna convince them to help them against Hulk? This is a team based fight and WWH and U-foes are on the same team, just how Loki and Thor are on the other, there is no "hey guys come join our team we got lemonade and stuff", i mean that's about as absurd as WWH convincing Thor to join him. U-foes don't really have much feats against magic as far as i know but neiter does Loki have against X-rays power which dropped Thor before.
Loki was never impressive to me outside prep, his feats are mostly wanked to be higher than they really are. Thor is more powerful than Hulk, that doesn't guarantee him the win since other factors outside of power go into play and it's funny you should mention that they have power Hulk can't overcome no matter how mad he gets considering that's exactly what he did in WWH when everyone was throwing all kinds of nonsense at him and he just went through all of it. It's even funnier when in the original script WWH was meant to fight OF Thor to a stalemate, but that's neither here nor there. When things like "incapacitation" are mentioned they usually don't mean incapacitation by BFR, though i can't read the OP's mind and tell you what he meant. I just know that Thor has teleported Hulk before but he has teleported himself together with Hulk and the way he teleports others is by opening a portal and pushing them through it, which doesn't seem like a viable strategy here, considering even the unstoppable Juggernaut had problems pushing WWH, let alone Thor.
Cho being a Hulk or not should not really matter when it comes to mental resistance. Really the Enchantress was also fall down drunk in when she dropped the Hulk but had issues with Cap. Neither Cap nor the Hulk have been clearly shown immune to mind control. All this stuff comes down to the whim of a writher/editor. I'm not going to get into the Hulk vs the Enchantress here, there are threads for that. I simply made a point based upon someone else's argument using her and a scan that seem about as old as when she killed him. Bottom line is someone made a dumb argument, I simply tried to counter it. You're best not to get too into it.
Seriously? Loki is a master manipulator. I simply argued that he'd use his well established skills to convince people who hate the Hulk to attack the Hulk. Because that'd be difficult?? I only made this argument to avoid trying to argue how a high end magic god could simply wave his hand and kill these people. If you are unable to see how much Loki is beyond these people...well what's the point here? Sure they might hurt him and might get a good hit in but he should be able to turn them into ice cream without any real difficulty. You know what, make a simple Loki vs the U-foes thread....see what we get. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was locked.
Honestly the WWHulk story was PIS on steroids. I simply used the idea of teleportation to avoid nonsense arguments based upon such feats. Loki and Thor can teleport people without pushing them. Loki can at least that I know of. If the person who made this fight didn't want this option, I don't really care. They left the loophole and I used it to avoid some tired arguments that have no real answer. Do you honestly want to argue post after post as to if Loki can do what Dormammu did to the Hulk or just simply except that technically he can teleport him away?
It does matter actually because Cho was stated to not be able to get as angry as Bruce and it's not his primary driving force either and the reason Hulk resists most mental attacks is precisely because of that rage. Cap is nowhere near immune to mind control, Hulk has been actually flat out called immune to it on a few occasions and powerful telepaths failed to affect him several times. So what you are telling me is someone made a dumb argument, sure i can agree with that, but you countered that dumb argument by making your own dumb argument? Is that what i am supposed to extrapolate?
OMG, it's not about whether or not Loki can convince them, in normal circumstances he would but this is a battle thread in which case there is no space for convincing others or whatnot, it's why you have threads where random villains and heroes are on the same teams, or you have threads where family members fight to the death. Yea and X-ray waves his hand and kills him as well or Vector blows him into oblivion, i mean i can make that same argument as well since Loki has no feats against negative gamma rays that already dropped his more durable brother. I can guarantee you that if you made Loki vs U-foes thread it wouldn't be locked, in fact the winners would probably be the U-foes.
No it wasn't i've heard this excuse multiple times and i ALWAYS slapped it away so hard the people claiming PIS never tried to again. The story has CIS which is normal and the reason why any event even works in the first place, but that were hardly any instances of PIS. No they didn't leave a loophole, then again i guess it speaks volumes about those that want to exploit loopholes instead of relying on better arguments. Loki is not Dormamu(not even close lol) and all Dormamu did was freeze him temporarily not turn him into ice or whatnot on top of that Hulk has already resisted matter manipulation from characters more powerful then Loki.
Someone did make a dumb argument and you had to butt into it. One could argue that Cho and Cap have greater will power than Bruce...The Hulk has been mind controlled quit a few times if I'm not mistaken. Wasn't there a fairly resent issue(last decade at least) where he was mind controlled by EX Nihilo(or his crew)? Let's face it, the Enchantress controlled him but had an issue with Captain America. This took place at the same time. Say what you will about his mental resistance but you're arguing against something that literally happened.
It's a battle thread, I simply argued that arguably the most known manipulator would...well, manipulate people. Be it strait forward or using his powers. You argue that Thor is more durable than Loki but just off the top of my head. Loki has resisted Rogue's power with ease., while Thor was taken down by it. Heck, Loki has had his head cut off and simply put it back on. Really, Loki is as powerful as a plot needs him to be. A quick example of his power is the Tri-Sentinal. Something Loki created with a finger snap and as only a middle finger to his failed Acts of Vengeance. It took the Captain Universe powered Spider-man to "stop" it. A Spider-man who punched the Hulk into orbit by accident. This didn't even stop the Tri-Sentinal. It later reformed it's self. Back to the U-Foes, lets simply consider this. Do you think Loki has a way to block, deflect, or tank their powers? Now consider it the other way. Do they have any way to block, dodge, or tank his powers? Make a Loki vs the U-foes thread. I can't guarantee it being blocked but I can't see many people favoring the U-Foes. I like the U-Foes! They're just are not Loki level. We're also assuming Loki will take them on. Thor has shown that his hammer can block their power and take them out if I'm not mistaken.
In all honestly, I can see a raged out Hulk being an issue for some people. Morals on helps a lot but let's just consider Dr Strange. Him having any issue with the Hulk is just dumb. For some reason in that story he did something really dumb and took on the power of Zom? Only to get into a fist fight with the Hulk?? A guy who's hurt Galactus and faces Dormamu, etc. Seriously, he could have sent the Hulk to some crazy demention till he had time to think at the very least. This just seemed silly. Even Reed Richards should have been able to handle him better. They already committed to the idea of sending him away. Both Reed and Strange should be able to send him to some alternate world for a few years with ease. The plot had both Reed and Strange using plans that were just dumb for the sake of the plot. Stark's plan was sabotaged If I remember correct. Blackbolt was a Skull...
No where in the rules does it say that anyone can not be teleported into space leaving them incapacitated. I think it speaks more about those who take issue with those simply using the powers of one side to show how they'd win. If you're looking for excuses in the rules that are not there....sorry, there is no rule against these two dumping the Hulk in orbit.
Dormamu turned the Hulk into crystal, while pretty much laughing at him. He was only saved by someone else's power if I'm not mistaken. The Hulk can resist being transformed but he is clearly not immune. You can argue the power of Loki vs Dormamu, but really this is why I simply pointed out that both Thor and Loki can dump him into space. Why argue some debatable nonsense when I can simply point out that they can teleport him into dead space to win? Seriously, both have the power to win here with ease using the rules provided. You just don't like it. Can Loki turn this Hulk into snow...don't matter...he doesn't need to. You're only making an issue of it because you've got no real counter argument. Again, these two are in reality just more powerful. Do you want some rule that makes this fact debatable? It's still a fact, even if there were some rule against it.
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