World Breaker Hulk vs Captain Marvel (dc)

Since OP didn't state any rules, Cap would win via BFR.

But without BFR, Bruce would rip Billy apart.

WBH wins with zero effort

WBH isn't even needed.

lol people actually think cm would win! wb hulk would destroy him and the rest of the planet

If it's Pre-New 52 Captain Marvel he wins. He's way too fast for Hulk.

New 52 Shazam however would be crushed into paste.

WBH absolutely murderstomps

Billy gets stomped. Contrary to popular belief, Billy is not close to Clark.

lord-parallax: Yes he is. They have matched each other in direct confrontations numerous times.

We've already had this conversation, no Billy is not a match for Clark in any way. And he's not a match for the most powerful incarnation of Hulk who can one shot him without even directly touching him. Billy doesn't have planetary to solar system durability like Superman nor is he anywhere near as fast.

Is it popular belief on here still that Billy is still close to Clark?

hulk

WBH murderstomps.

@lvenger: Obviously it is.

The only reason Billy holds his own is because of Magic and that's it.

@lvenger: Captain Marvel endured 5D firestorms that were caused by Yz (Thunderbolt), and he has survived prolonged attacks from The Spectre without keeling over.

But those extravagant durability feats are redundant, because it was you who said that it doesn't take planetary level or Supernova level blasts to harm or KO Superman, and Captain Marvel has harmed and KO'd (twice) Superman.

Captain Marvel also has light speed feats (The Flash #162), and FTL speed feats (JLA #29, and The Flash #107 Underworld Unleashed tie-in)

Hulk thunderclaps his head off.

@nick1994:

Captain Marvel endured 5D firestorms that were caused by Yz (Thunderbolt)

As much of an outlier feat as Superman surviving the death of a universe or Hulk destroying Nightmare's dimension with a thunderclap. Highballed evidence is a poor choice.

and he has survived prolonged attacks from The Spectre without keeling over.

Spectre was actually giving Billy chances to step aside so that implies Spectre was still holding back. Of course you wouldn't have mentioned that even if you'd known being as deceptively biased towards Captain Marvel as you are.

But those extravagant durability feats are redundant, because it was you who said that it doesn't take planetary level or Supernova level blasts to harm or KO Superman, and Captain Marvel has harmed and KO'd (twice) Superman.

And Superman has KOed Captain Marvel twice as well, one time wasn't a sucker attack too. Doesn't matter because it does take planetary durability to survive WBH's gamma bursts and attacks and Billy is consistently not at the planetary/supernova level like Superman is. Thus WBH is likely to stomp Billy, if not one shot him. I dare you to argue Captain Marvel beating WBH against a Hulk expert, I can tag one if you want and you'll be debunked easily just as I've exposed your poor excuse for an argument.

Captain Marvel also has light speed feats (The Flash #162), and FTL speed feats (JLA #29, and The Flash #107 Underworld Unleashed tie-in)

You're absolutely wrong about CM having lightspeed feats. In The Flash #162 both Flash and CM are moving slower than the speed of light and CM states it's taking all the speed of Mercury for him to move that fast. Also, Flash describes their momentum as two 'supersonic trains' which further lessens your attempt to overplay that feat. Moreover, in the same issue, CM struggles to perceive Flash moving.

Gallery

There is no light speed feat in JLA #29 so I assume you meant JLA #31. How is Captain Marvel changing the weather patterns a lightspeed feat? There's no timeframe or distance given in that example.

As for The Flash #107, Billy calling Wally a slowpoke in a playful jest of banter or keeping pace with Wally at unknown travel speeds is not a lightspeed feat at all.

Gallery

Face it, Billy does not have Superman's level of combat speed or the ability to use his speed creatively and intelligently in combat to perform multiple actions or attacks on an opponent. Even if he is that fast, he doesn't use his speed in the same way Superman does, let alone a Flash like Barry or Wally. You'd only be lying to everyone and yourself if you really believe yourself. Captain Marvel can't beat WBH, he wouldn't even be able to handle WWH or even regular Hulk frankly.

@lvenger said:

@nick1994:

Captain Marvel endured 5D firestorms that were caused by Yz (Thunderbolt)

As much of an outlier feat as Superman surviving the death of a universe or Hulk destroying Nightmare's dimension with a thunderclap. Highballed evidence is a poor choice.

and he has survived prolonged attacks from The Spectre without keeling over.

Spectre was actually giving Billy chances to step aside so that implies Spectre was still holding back. Of course you wouldn't have mentioned that even if you'd known being as deceptively biased towards Captain Marvel as you are.

But those extravagant durability feats are redundant, because it was you who said that it doesn't take planetary level or Supernova level blasts to harm or KO Superman, and Captain Marvel has harmed and KO'd (twice) Superman.

And Superman has KOed Captain Marvel twice as well, one time wasn't a sucker attack too. Doesn't matter because it does take planetary durability to survive WBH's gamma bursts and attacks and Billy is consistently not at the planetary/supernova level like Superman is. Thus WBH is likely to stomp Billy, if not one shot him. I dare you to argue Captain Marvel beating WBH against a Hulk expert, I can tag one if you want and you'll be debunked easily just as I've exposed your poor excuse for an argument.

Captain Marvel also has light speed feats (The Flash #162), and FTL speed feats (JLA #29, and The Flash #107 Underworld Unleashed tie-in)

You're absolutely wrong about CM having lightspeed feats. In The Flash #162 both Flash and CM are moving slower than the speed of light and CM states it's taking all the speed of Mercury for him to move that fast. Also, Flash describes their momentum as two 'supersonic trains' which further lessens your attempt to overplay that feat. Moreover, in the same issue, CM struggles to perceive Flash moving.

Gallery

There is no light speed feat in JLA #29 so I assume you meant JLA #31. How is Captain Marvel changing the weather patterns a lightspeed feat? There's no timeframe or distance given in that example.

As for The Flash #107, Billy calling Wally a slowpoke in a playful jest of banter or keeping pace with Wally at unknown travel speeds is not a lightspeed feat at all.

Gallery

Face it, Billy does not have Superman's level of combat speed or the ability to use his speed creatively and intelligently in combat to perform multiple actions or attacks on an opponent. Even if he is that fast, he doesn't use his speed in the same way Superman does, let alone a Flash like Barry or Wally. You'd only be lying to everyone and yourself if you really believe yourself. Captain Marvel can't beat WBH, he wouldn't even be able to handle WWH or even regular Hulk frankly.

This

No just no.

Billy dies. No version of CM is close to WBH.

Pre-Crisis would die.

Post Crisis would die.

N52 would get one shot.

Not sure about DC One Million.

Even when he became the new Shazam he got his ass handed to him by Black Adam and his own sister.

WBH stomps.

@lvenger:

[As much of an outlier feat as Superman surviving the death of a universe or Hulk destroying Nightmare's dimension with a thunderclap. Highballed evidence is a poor choice.]

Still proves he's capable of surviving attacks from a 5D being. But as I said before those extravagant durability feats are redundant, because Superman and Captain Marvel have both harmed and KO'd each other.

[Spectre was actually giving Billy chances to step aside so that implies Spectre was still holding back. Of course you wouldn't have mentioned that even if you'd known being as deceptively biased towards Captain Marvel as you are.]

The Spectre asking Captain Marvel to give up could have be an admission of being unable to kill or even KO Captain Marvel, or the Spectre was just trying to being merciful.

It can be interpreted both ways I guess, but what was shown is that the Spectre was smacking Captain Marvel around, and Cap wasn't keeling over.

Also the Spectre even admitted that he had no idea how much magical power Captain Marvel.

He said this:

"You're filled with so much raw, wild magic--I had no idea. It may take a while to cook it out of you."

It was also said that Captain Marvel can survive the Spectre's attacks as long as his power source holds out.

[And Superman has KOed Captain Marvel twice as well, one time wasn't a sucker attack too.]

If you're talking about the Brave and the Bold fight it can be argued that Batman's kick is what caused Captain Marvel to revert back to Billy which would be obvious PIS.

Also Billy wasn't knocked out. He was faking being unconscious to trick Batman.

[You're absolutely wrong about CM having lightspeed feats. In The Flash #162 both Flash and CM are moving slower than the speed of light and CM states it's taking all the speed of Mercury for him to move that fast. Also, Flash describes their momentum as two 'supersonic trains' which further lessens your attempt to overplay that feat. Moreover, in the same issue, CM struggles to perceive Flash moving.]

I heard from other people that he was moving at light speed along with Wally, but I could be wrong.

I asked Mark Waid on Twitter if Captain Marvel was moving at light speed, so if he replies I'll let you know and we'll get confirmation.

[There is no light speed feat in JLA #29]

After Captain Marvel KO'd Superman with those two sucker punches he went off to enter the 5th Dimension, and he did so via speed.

It required Captain Marvel to go faster than the speed necessary for time travel, and time is of the 4th Dimension as stated by Hourman Captain Marvel entered the 5th Dimension.

So it was a FTL speed feat since you have to go faster than light for time travel.

[As for The Flash #107, Billy calling Wally a slowpoke in a playful jest of banter or keeping pace with Wally at unknown travel speeds is not a lightspeed feat at all.]

I'm talking about when Captain Marvel was carrying a train he was moving faster than gravity, because the rear cars weren't being brought down by gravity.

That's also a FTL speed feat since the speed of gravity (gravitational waves) is equal to light speed.

[Face it, Billy does not have Superman's level of combat speed or the ability to use his speed creatively and intelligently in combat to perform multiple actions or attacks on an opponent.]

Captain Marvel speed blitzed Superman in Brave and the Bold.

Superman didn't even see it coming, but Superman has speed blitzed Captain Marvel before too.

So Captain Marvel is fast enough to catch Superman by surprise.

@nerevarine_11: Wellll Pre Crisis Captain Marvel might be close to WBH since he was approximately equal to Pre Crisis Superman. I don't just mean by statements but their fights actually showed them to be equals, physically at least. Having said that, the opinion that Post Crisis Captain Marvel is a match for WBH is rubbish as is the argument I'm about to debunk.

@nick1994:

Still proves he's capable of surviving attacks from a 5D being. But as I said before those extravagant durability feats are redundant, because Superman and Captain Marvel have both harmed and KO'd each other.

Only if you want to highball the character rather than look at what they're capable of consistently. Please stop sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring criticism, you're just sounding more and more foolish. Captain Marvel and Supes can harm each other but they've mainly KOed each other via sucker attacks. In a straight fair fight Superman is more likely to KO Billy due to his superior striking power. I can show you numerous feats of Superman's striking power that are better than Billy's without even having to use the 3 moon busting feats.

The Spectre asking Captain Marvel to give up could have be an admission of being unable to kill or even KO Captain Marvel, or the Spectre was just trying to being merciful.

It can be interpreted both ways I guess, but what was shown is that the Spectre was smacking Captain Marvel around, and Cap wasn't keeling over.

Also the Spectre even admitted that he had no idea how much magical power Captain Marvel.

He said this:

"You're filled with so much raw, wild magic--I had no idea. It may take a while to cook it out of you."

It was also said that Captain Marvel can survive the Spectre's attacks as long as his power source holds out.

Oh FFS are you really making the argument that a cosmic abstract, Spectre, was unable to kill a high tier powerhouse, Captain Marvel?

I don't even know where to start on your next lot of silliness. For starters, Detective Chimp stated that Captain Marvel facing Spectre was like a paraplegic child vs a heavyweight fighter. And secondly, Spectre simply depowered Billy immediately in their next fight so that proves how easily Spectre could have killed him had he wanted to.

Gallery

These are the cold hard facts you are routinely incapable of handling despite my attempts to remind you.

If you're talking about the Brave and the Bold fight it can be argued that Batman's kick is what caused Captain Marvel to revert back to Billy which would be obvious PIS.

Also Billy wasn't knocked out. He was faking being unconscious to trick Batman.

It's from Superman/Batman 3 actually and it would be huge PIS if Batman's kick caused Billy to be knocked out. It is clearly Superman's throw that KOs him.

He was faking being unconscious to Batman but how did he turn back into Captain Marvel again with blood on his face? Why would he need to transform to trick Batman when he could overpower him? Your logic makes no sense.

I heard from other people that he was moving at light speed along with Wally, but I could be wrong.

I asked Mark Waid on Twitter if Captain Marvel was moving at light speed, so if he replies I'll let you know and we'll get confirmation.

Well there's your problem trusting other people blindly without checking it yourself.

If he does I'd like to see his answer please to see if it lines up with what he originally wrote.

After Captain Marvel KO'd Superman with those two sucker punches he went off to enter the 5th Dimension, and he did so via speed.

It required Captain Marvel to go faster than the speed necessary for time travel, and time is of the 4th Dimension as stated by Hourman Captain Marvel entered the 5th Dimension.

So it was a FTL speed feat since you have to go faster than light for time travel.

What? That's not what happened in the comic at all. Billy sucker punched Superman, talked with Hourman and then popped into the 5th Dimension being watched by The Quintessence. If anything it was either Marvel's natural magic abilities that enabled him to visist the 5th Dimension or he used a JLA teleporter. Where's all this non-existent faster than the speed of time travel come from?

I'm talking about when Captain Marvel was carrying a train he was moving faster than gravity, because the rear cars weren't being brought down by gravity.

That's also a FTL speed feat since the speed of gravity (gravitational waves) is equal to light speed.

Prove that please. I have sincere doubts about the validity of the speed of gravity in the context you're falsely using it in.

Captain Marvel speed blitzed Superman in Brave and the Bold.

Superman didn't even see it coming, but Superman has speed blitzed Captain Marvel before too.

So Captain Marvel is fast enough to catch Superman by surprise.

An off guard, Kryptonite weakened Superman? Is Captain Marvel fast enough to catch dozens or hundreds of bullets? Is he fast enough to perceive light speed events? Is he fast enough to set off sonic booms when he throws punches? Is he fast enough to react in milliseconds, microseconds, nanoseconds? I have seen none of these feats from Captain Marvel that Superman, Wonder Woman and even Black Adam have done some of these. Captain Marvel does not have these combat applicable showings so you are factually incorrect in stating Captain Marvel is fast enough to keep up with Superman.

@lvenger: [Oh FFS are you really making the argument that a cosmic abstract, Spectre, was unable to kill a high tier powerhouse, Captain Marvel?]

No I'm not. Captain Marvel was clearly losing, but what was shown on panel is that the Spectre wasn't able to kill him quickly, or even knock him out.

Spectre even admitted it would take a while to cook all of Captain Marvel's power out of him.

[I don't even know where to start on your next lot of silliness. For starters, Detective Chimp stated that Captain Marvel facing Spectre was like a paraplegic child vs a heavyweight fighter. And secondly, Spectre simply depowered Billy immediately in their next fight so that proves how easily Spectre could have killed him had he wanted to.]

Yeah Captain Marvel was fighting a losing battle he knew, and everyone else knew it, but he wasn't able to be killed quickly.

Also the Spectre depowered Captain Marvel because he didn't want another dragged out fight.

Spectre even said he didn't want Captain Marvel to impede him anymore, so he transformed Cap back to Billy.

[It's from Superman/Batman 3 actually and it would be huge PIS if Batman's kick caused Billy to be knocked out. It is clearly Superman's throw that KOs him.]

[He was faking being unconscious to Batman but how did he turn back into Captain Marvel again with blood on his face? Why would he need to transform to trick Batman when he could overpower him? Your logic makes no sense.]

I actually just found a quote from Jeff Loeb addressing this very thing.

"Jeph Loeb: Um... sorry if this wasn't clear, it was to many, many readers -- but for the sake of clarity, HERE GOES:. S & B decided to castle. They switched partners. Yes, Superman could've thrown Captain Marvel into the mountain, but he didn't, he used Batman as sort of a soccer move or a volley ball move -- set up and then have Bats score. I thought it was cool. McGuinness did too and drew it cool. All Batman's kick did was redirect where CM was headed, perhaps catching him off guard -- Batman's kick DID NOT accelerate CM or cause him to revert back to Billy. The switch to Billy was Captain Marvel's switch back on them (ref: Hawkman's line and Batman's surprise at finding the boy). When CM made impact on the mountain there's a small BURST (some folks have said that CM always has a giant bolt of lightning, but he changes in public, in buildings, so there are various degrees of what that would look like (and subject to the artist's interpretation). By appearing as a boy "around Robin's age" Marvel actually took advantage of one Batman's few vulnerable moments so he could then zap him. But, again, THE STORY IS NOT OVER. Hope that helps -- and I really hope that folks enjoyed the rest of the issue and that this single moment didn't take away the thrilled packed adventure that has been and will still come! YEESH!"

So it was neither Batman's kick or Superman's throw that caused Cap to revert back to Billy, and Billy wasn't knocked out.

I got the quote from the Superman Homepage just so you know.

[What? That's not what happened in the comic at all. Billy sucker punched Superman, talked with Hourman and then popped into the 5th Dimension being watched by The Quintessence. If anything it was either Marvel's natural magic abilities that enabled him to visist the 5th Dimension or he used a JLA teleporter.]

Captain Marvel doesn't have any teleportation powers, and he popped in the 5th Dimension via pure speed.

[Where's all this non-existent faster than the speed of time travel come from?]

Time is of the 4th Dimension as stated by Hourman, and Captain Marvel entered the 5th Dimension.

He did so by going faster than the speed necessary for time travel, and faster than time itself for that matter.

Also in The Power of SHAZAM! #27 C.C. Batson who was Captain Marvel at the time was capable of time traveling via pure speed.

[Prove that please. I have sincere doubts about the validity of the speed of gravity in the context you're falsely using it in.]

Prove that the speed of gravity is equal to light speed, or show scans of Captain Marvel carrying the train?

[An off guard, Kryptonite weakened Superman?]

It wasn't confirmed if Superman was being weakened by the kryptonite asteroid or not.

Superman only felt something in the air, and Power Girl also seemed unaffected.

Also if Superman had superior reaction time how did Captain Marvel surprise him?

Isn't the point of a fast reaction time being able to react to something you're not prepared for?

Shazam wins..

Poor billy :(

Hulks strength and durability is much more than Shazams and Hulk was able to catch up to silver surfer who goes 50 times faster than the speed of light so speed shouldn't be a problem for Hulk so Hulk should win

@nerevarine_11: I disagree with Pre-Crisis, but I agree with the rest.

Six years ago Captain Marvel was favored victor but now The Hulk is...I wonder if six years from now it will change again?

@kinghype: If he is, I hope it's because of the state of comics and not the state of the board.

WBH

Maybe against Savage Hulk, that'd be a good fight. But people are actually realizing just how above the likes of Savage Hulk the Worldbreaker incarnation actually is. It's not even in the same league.

Difference in power between Savage Hulk and worldbreaker mode is similar to the difference between Bruce Banner and Savage Hulk >.>

Billy since Superman considers him his equal

Hulk stomps.

I honestly don't know why people think Capt. Marvel aka Shazam or by Extension Superman could beat the Hulk. They can't.

I hate to say this but DC fanboys need to face facts, Kal-El and Billy by extension are nothing more than Batteries, plain and simple. They will never be stronger than they are at the start of a fight. They will tire out and weaken. Countless battles in the comics have proven this. Bruce is a Generator, he keeps producing power and not only that his power increases as he fights. There's no Battery that will outlast a Generator. Hulk wins and it's not even close.

Now for the DC fanboys that can't accept that and come up with something lame like "Oh oh superman will fly hulk into the sun, game over." Err not so much. Remember Hulk has Survived Johnny Storms Nova Flame which is as hot if not hotter than the Sun. So yeah. Also Hulk adapts to his environment as we've seen countless times, like when he was in Space, his body adapted and he no longer needed Oxygen, or when he was underwater he developed an air bladder.

The cold hard truth is that Hulk smashes superman all day, every day, 24/7. 365, and every 4 years, 366 days. You don't have to like it but that won't change this from being the truth.

Hulk

Why do threads here keep getting bumped with bad reasoning?

Hulk treats the kid like fodder

Welcome to another ouny thread where wbh is underestimated

WBH literally stomps Captain Marvel.

Hulk punches his head off

Hulk.

Fixed it for you.

WBH pre ezy

shazan would win after a close fight

LoL at the Viners 9 years ago the low-ball is Oscar worthy

i agree with you, but this didn't need to be bumped.

@captaincoolade: yeah but after reading this I can't stop myself for doing that lol

Mismatch.