Wonderweiss vs Ulquiorra

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TheBalance

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Round 1: base Ulquiorra vs base Wonderweiss

Round 2: Murcielago vs Extinguir

Round 3: Segunda Etapa vs Extinguir

  • In character
  • Battle in hueco Mundo
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SkySanji

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Ulquiorra

Ulquiorra

Ulquiorra

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RuthlessKiller

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Ulquiorra. Wonderwieiss was created to counter yamamoto's fire. Something Ulquiorra doesn't have.

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GoldHeretic

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Ulquiorra all rounds faster speed feats more destructive attacks and he has regent to boot

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WorldofRuin6

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Wonderweiss MAY take R2 if he can restrain Ulq and punch him into oblivion, but he loses the rest.

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cpt_nice

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Ulquiorra each round.

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FaradaySloth

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Ulquiorra all rounds

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LimitlessSigil

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Wasn't Yama shown to be affected at least somewhat from his punches? He'd beat Ulquiorra imo if thats the case.

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helloman

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Ulquiorra wins all rounds.

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Madscientist224

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Ulq all rounds

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ourmanuel

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Everyone here just fanboyed ulquiorra. Time to use some TheBalance scaling to correct this.

R1: wonderweiss

R2: wonderweiss

R3: ulquiorra

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LeoTheGreatest

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Everyone here just fanboyed ulquiorra. Time to use some TheBalance scaling to correct this.

R1: wonderweiss

R2: wonderweiss

R3: ulquiorra

lmao this.

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ourmanuel

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LeoTheGreatest

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#15  Edited By LeoTheGreatest

@ourmanuel:

Me too, I said lmao to the “Time to use some The Balance scaling to correct this“.

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TheBalance

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@ourmanuel: Actually IMO WW takes R3 aswell. Remember the Vizord captains could baisically match Starrk before he lit them up but still didn't do all that much damage. They were generally equal to Starrk tho, remember that my scaling also suggests that the vizord's (failed experiments/mock arrancars) hollowfication is approximately a 2.5× boost in power, well considering Kensei is equal in strength to the others, his bankai would be 4× the power the other vizord captains displayed (since that's a 10× boost). So say what you will about my scaling but WW>1st Ira form Yammy who is a bit stronger than you know who ? but who listens to me anyway.

And also considering Mashiro is similar in power to the other vizord lieutenants, and although she could push WW around (mind you he wasn't taking damage) he could neutralize her cero with his own, but even if we say he's stronger than Mashiro, I can't solidly prove he'd be superior to released Harribel but based off what we know, his reiatsu would be closer to that of released Harribel than base Harribel who's logically stronger than base Ulquiorra.

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ourmanuel

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TheBalance

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@ourmanuel:

Just an off topic statement that probably would make everyone not take me seriously after this, but here are the captains who's spiritual pressure are beyond VL Ichigo's:

Komamura (lol surprised me too)

Tousen

Kensei

Gin

Aizen (obviously)

Kenpachi

Byakuya (probably equal)

I don't remember anymore but these are all the people who's spiritual pressure should be atleast a bit above VL Ichigo based on the power they displayed. I'm not accounting for hypothetical bankais such as Shunsui's

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ourmanuel

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@thebalance: I’m guessing SAFWY would explain a lot of this right?

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TheBalance

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@ourmanuel: I'm uh, not familiar with that abbreviation

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alextheboss

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@ourmanuel said:

Everyone here just fanboyed ulquiorra. Time to use some TheBalance scaling to correct this.

R1: wonderweiss

R2: wonderweiss

R3: ulquiorra

lmao this.

I agree Wonderweiss is stronger in round 1 and 2, though Ulquiorra could arguably win by running and spamming ceros.

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ourmanuel

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#22  Edited By ourmanuel

@alextheboss: even hollow mask ichigo could see that cero coming(though he wasn’t fast enough to dodge) and he also survived one of them. Wonderweiss should be able to dodge it in base or outright tank it in ressurecion.

He’s already proven how good he is by beating ukitake(Though it was a surprise attack), hollow mask mashiro and bankai Kensei all in base. And in ressurecion could make yamamoto a little bit pressured(albeit his sword was sealed).

@thebalance said:

@ourmanuel: I'm uh, not familiar with that abbreviation

Spirits are forever with you

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JuzaCloud

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Wonderweiss is Kubo worst design ever. Extra bad.

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alextheboss

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@ourmanuel: He beat bankai Kensei in base? Hmmm, then he would probably beat base Ulquiorra.

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TheBalance

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#25  Edited By TheBalance

@ourmanuel:

Spirits are forever with you

Actually, I've never read that novel, I'm using my scaling to conclude this. The only info I've caught from that novel is that VL Ichigo cannot be stronger than Yammy.

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ourmanuel

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Spirits are forever with you

Actually, I've never read that novel, I'm using my scaling to conclude this. The only info I've caught from that novel is that VL Ichigo cannot be stronger than Yammy.

How do you know that without reading the novel? Either way, yes, that’s what I meant.

@ourmanuel: He beat bankai Kensei in base? Hmmm, then he would probably beat base Ulquiorra.

He did. Which proves how strong he is.

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WhatamIseeing

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Wonderweiss would beat base Ulquiorra he beat bankai kensai. Ulquiorra wins the last round

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TheBalance

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@ourmanuel:

He’s already proven how good he is by beating ukitake(Though it was a surprise attack), hollow mask mashiro and bankai Kensei all in base

There's no way that WW defeated bankai Kensei without using his ressureccion. That would make Kensei weaker than the vizord lieutenants even with bankai. With the more logical approach to assume Kensei is equal in power to the other vizord captains, WW would definitely need to use ressureccion to have even a small chance and based on the duration of their battle, it's likely they were on par with each other for the most part.

Remember, the vizords had to be within a 2.5× difference in reiatsu from Starrk, both with and without their masks so even with just their shikai, they should already have power similar to released Baraggan or maybe a little lower or higher. Base WW would fall in the gap between the vizord lieutenants (who are near equals to released Harribel) and released Baraggan. I can't recall if he used a sonido against Mashiro but if he did and she reacted to it, he'd be closer to Harribel's level than Baraggan's which would make defeating even shikai Kensei next to impossible.

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ourmanuel

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@ourmanuel:

He’s already proven how good he is by beating ukitake(Though it was a surprise attack), hollow mask mashiro and bankai Kensei all in base

There's no way that WW defeated bankai Kensei without using his ressureccion. That would make Kensei weaker than the vizord lieutenants even with bankai. With the more logical approach to assume Kensei is equal in power to the other vizord captains, WW would definitely need to use ressureccion to have even a small chance and based on the duration of their battle, it's likely they were on par with each other for the most part.

Wonderweiss beating his bankai in base doesn’t seem that far fetched. Someone like grimmjow could manhandle Bankai Ichigo in base and Kensei wasn’t really that impressive. Though I guess your hypothesis is possible

Remember, the vizords had to be within a 2.5× difference in reiatsu from Starrk, both with and without their masks so even with just their shikai, they should already have power similar to released Baraggan or maybe a little lower or higher.

Released Barragan would be above R1 Ulquiorra who stomped ichigo. I doubt the visored are going to be on that level.

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TheEmperor95

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@ourmanuel: wonderweiss didn't beat him base? All we know is that he off paneled him and was shown again in his resurrection form so for all we know he beat him with his resurrection

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ourmanuel

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@theemperor95: we can assume he hadn’t entered ressurecion yet based on how Aizen introduced wonderweiss to yamamoto.

Not to mention, him beating Kensei in base isn’t that shocking really. He blindsided ukitake, almost did the same to urahara a while backand his resurrwction could take sword swings from yamamoto in base. If we scale it down, he was quite powerful. Kensei most likely got blitzed by him rather than overpowered.

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TheEmperor95

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@ourmanuel: blitzing an aware character and an unaware character. Look at when ichigo blitzed aizen after he tanked yama hado compared to aizen then blitzing him casually when he is paying attention

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ourmanuel

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@theemperor95: yeah, that’s why I said blindsided. But it should still somewhat count considering the fact that ukitake was facing wonderweiss and already knew he was a bad guy.

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TheBalance

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@ourmanuel:

Released Barragan would be above R1 Ulquiorra who stomped ichigo. I doubt the visored are going to be on that level.

But why not, when Harribel>R1 Ulquiorra and the vizord lieutenants are atleast near equals with her, then base Kensei>full powered vizord lieutenants. Not only that but the other vizord captains had to be only a little below released Starrk which would ultimately make them around released Barragan or higher even without their mask. And btw, with scaling equality among espada ranks, Base Baraggan should be above R1 Ulquiorra. When You have Hachigen reacting to released Baraggan you can't say the the captains which easily has more reiatsu, can't be at that level. I'm not just making stuff up as I go along, and I'm not second guessing anything. What I'm saying to you isn't an hypothesis, I've long passed that stage, I have a clear view of the differences in power among these guys and the random numbers aren't made up figures.

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ourmanuel

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@thebalance: that...actually makes sense.

Oh well, I still stand by what I said. If wonderweiss could beat people like kensei(whether in base or not) and pressure yamamoto, he should comfortably be able to beat R1 Ulquiorra

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Earendill

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Everyone here just fanboyed ulquiorra. Time to use some TheBalance scaling to correct this.

R1: wonderweiss

R2: wonderweiss

R3: ulquiorra

This

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PhantomRant

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Round 1: Ulquiorra stomps. WW was getting handled by Masked mashiro and base kensei.

Round 2: About the same level, Ulquiorra should take it on account of range, firepower, and being way more competent. High-diff.

Round 3: Ulquiorra stomps

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BossDarkseid

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Ulq all rounds for reasons already stated

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deactivated-5c9011bc9c6e9

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r1: WW

r2: Ulquiorra he will just cero spam

r3: Ulquiorra

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TheBalance

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Bump

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TheBalance

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@phantomrant:

Round 1: Ulquiorra stomps. WW was getting handled by Masked mashiro and base kensei.

Did you notice the level the masked lieutenants were operating at? Released Harribel level plus Mashiro's cero was overwhelmed by his own cero which meant his spiritual pressure is higher than her's. She wasn't even doing any real damage to him. I could see R1 Ulquiorra getting some hits on WW but he shouldn't even hurt him as much as Mashiro so you see exactly where that puts base Ulquiorra, actually lower than the level Mashiro was at when WW one shotted her so he's better off not taking a single hit and at the same time his attacks are almost completely ineffective. Strike that, the difference is as much as 10× or more, nothing is going to happen if he hits WW.

Round 2: About the same level, Ulquiorra should take it on account of range, firepower, and being way more competent. High-diff.

Actually I should have kept base WW for round two and only use his ressureccion in R3 and you'll see why in the next line.

Round 3: Ulquiorra stomps

Well from previous scaling, Yammy (1st level Ira) is 3× stronger than Starrk. From the spirits are always with you, VL Ichigo is most certainly in that gap between Yammy and Starrk and I'll explain why.

One major key factor that plays a surprisingly large role is Azashiro calling Kenpachi and Cien (VL Ichigo level arrancar) 'weak'. That's important because it would suggest that the power they displayed was lower than the strength of his shikai. Stick a pin here.

Sealed Kenpachi in FKT arc was stronger than 1st Ira form Yammy but weaker than his 2nd form which is 2× stronger than the first form, and Kenpachi's inferiority is based on Byakuya's injuries along with Kenny's attitude to the battle (he was deemed too weak to fight Yammy alone so Byakuya tried to help and that took the fun right out of the battle). Stick a pin here

Since Azashiro's shikai is stronger than Cien's ressureccion it means at full power he's more than 10× stronger with bankai and released Kenpachi should be comparable. But at the same time, released Kenpachi isn't even as much as 5× stronger than his sealed state going off the proceedings of the Nnoitra fight: he was stronger than Nnoitra then removed his eyepatch, Nnoitra used ressureccion but was a little stronger than his released state. I can conclude that the eyepatch seals somewhere around 3× his reiatsu. If you go 3× down from a number greater than 10 you'll get a number greater than 3.3. So one way or another Kenpachi was more than 3.3× stronger than Cien and at the same time, Yammy was less than 2× weaker than this Kenpachi. This would mean Yammy is more than 1.6× stronger than Vasto Lorde Ichigo but he can't be as much as 3× stronger or more since that would go against the zero espada rank (it would lap over Starrk and make the zero rank obsolete).

Take that information and link it to my theory about the VL mask being the same boost as the vizord mask there would be a small issue if we didn't pay attention to the cloak. If you remembered correctly, Ichigo was about equal to Yammy when he released his getsuga. Pay close attention to the cloak:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

It's covering about 2× more of his upper body so the unknown number above 1.6 and below 3 is about 2. So Yammy is 2× stronger than VL Ichigo but he's 3× stronger than Starrk using general equivalence in scaling the espadas which means VL Ichigo is only 1.5× stronger than Starrk

Now the Vizord captains with their shikai+hollow mask demonstrated they had spiritual pressure comparable to released Starrk by knocking away his ceros and tanking multiple attacks even more powerful than them. They were generally equal to him in terms of reiatsu. Their masks are a general 2.5× increase from both statements and scaling so with their masks in shikai, they are 1.5× weaker than Vasto Lorde Ichigo. Kensei should easily be comparable to the other vizord captains and he used bankai which would be as much as 4× stronger than his masked shikai which makes him 2.6× stronger than VL Ichigo.

WW had power similar to or even greater than this with his ressureccion so he should smack on VL Ichigo who could effortlessly obliterate R2 Ulquiorra.

Btw Ulquiorra is scaled below released Baraggan so he's a little below released Baraggan and VL Ichigo is a little above released Starrk.

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hurricanefunnel

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character 1 wins based on abilities and strength

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PhantomRant

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@thebalance: Yeah I'm not going to read all of that nonsense. Although you seem to be more sensible in round 1 so I'll address that.

Did you notice the level the masked lieutenants were operating at? Released Harribel level

Not only does this have nothing to do with Mashiro, but the only thing they are comparable to Hallibel in are reactions. Nothing suggests the girls are top Espada-level in overall ability, since Hitsugaya + Lisa + Hiyori combined couldn't overpower her after she got out of Hyoten Hyakkaso. Says nothing for WW when Mashiro is demonstrably faster than him, also

plus Mashiro's cero was overwhelmed by his own cero which meant his spiritual pressure is higher than her's.

Yes, not like it says anything for WW aside from arbitrarily being Espada-level.

She wasn't even doing any real damage to him.

She sorta was, and she was stronger and faster than him in CQC which is all that matters for Ulquiorra to beat him down.

And the rest of what you posted was headcanon bs that I know better not to even entertain.

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TheBalance

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@phantomrant: Harribel was pressed by them individually. Hiyori sent her plummeting to the ground at mach speeds.

Hitsugaya + Lisa + Hiyori combined couldn't overpower her after she got out of Hyoten Hyakkaso

They were pressing her, if you haven't noticed, please tell me how much damage Hiyori and Lisa left that fight with. Switch the roles to any 1 of them against the three and the results would be similar, they attack in an alternating manner and all that is required is a parry and a quick preparation for the next attack.

Masked Shikai Lisa, Masked Shikai Hiyori, Bankai Toshiro- they weren't equal to her until all three entered these forms

She sorta was, and she was stronger and faster than him in CQC which is all that matters for Ulquiorra to beat him down.

what's the difference between Harribel and Ulquiorra?

In CQC Mashiro didn't overpower him. Pay closer attention it was never a case where she stopped his attacks like Kensei did, all that happened was that she attacked before he did or completely avoided his attacks then countered. Listen to your own words, he had greater spiritual pressure but she was stronger than him? I know you're not good with Bleach analysis but this is kinda pathetic

These so called 'head canon bs' are about the only thing that can give a clear view of the differences between the characters. If Mashiro has comparable spiritual pressure to both Lisa and Hiyori then base WW is most definitely stronger than R1 Ulquiorra, likely as strong as released Harribel in just base. That kinda mutes anything base Ulquiorra can do

You're comparing Mashiro's performance to dictate how well Ulquiorra would do but the fact of the matter is, even his 1st ressureccion wouldn't do as well as what Mashiro did.

Ofc it helps Ulquiorra's case that WW is a nut but you should know that an arrancar's base strength pales in comparison to his ressureccion and Mashiro had power greater than that so base Ulquiorra cannot 'stomp' him in combat.

When there are people as clueless about Bleach scaling as you are, there's no short and simple way to explain things, I'd have to go through each character thoroughly for you to see things like I do. Judging destruction never works, judging tenacity or the element of intimidation is in the same boat that won't get you anywhere. You're hooked on: 'Mashiro is weak because she didn't 'seem' impressive. You're subconsciously judging by the portrayal of her character rather than her level of power and you don't even know it. What even made you think Ulquiorra was 100% stronger than her in the 1st place? It's stuff like this why people even think Bleach is inconsistent because some random fodder looking guy can outdo someone who 'seems' more powerful.

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Uryuishidasama

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We only know wonderwiess is no pushover oneshotting ikutake and shishui is no joke then beating bankia kensie although kensie was always a disappointment.