Wonder Woman vs Captain Marvel (Billy Batson)

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AbelHsu

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  • Post Crisis versions
  • Standard versions
  • Gear : WW has her sword + standard gear ( bracers,lasso,tiara)
  • Blood lusted
  • Morals off
  • Win by killing or KO,BFR allowed(but isn't a way of winning)
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AbelHsu

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#2  Edited By AbelHsu

bump

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seastone98

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my money is on billy [could go either way tho]

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KingHype

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#4  Edited By KingHype

Captain Marvel.

Stronger, faster, higher invulnerability etc.

WW is a much better H2H fighter, but I recall WW and blood lusted Superman having a hell of a fight where she had to slit his throat just to catch a break so he could kill Maxwell Lord whom was mind controlling. Still, Superman had WW to her absolute limits to the point she needed to use her brains to gain an advantage.

It basically be WW fighting a magical Superman though she might be able to win via her combat experience and exploiting the fact he's a kid.

I'll back The Big Red Cheese though. CA takes it 7/10

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SPYDA-MAN

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I'd go with ww.

I like billy more and think he has more natural tools to bring to the table but the fact he is a kid in this superhero body I think works against him in a bloodlust confrontation like this. I think this is a moment where the older mind can take care of the younger one.

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MightyKalEl

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Diana in a good fight.

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Stormdriven

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Could go either way, but I'll lean Diana

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AbelHsu

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#8  Edited By AbelHsu

(๑´•.̫ • `๑)

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Klaus

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#9  Edited By Klaus

@kinghype: Wonder Woman was at no point at her limits in that fight. Superman was fighting all out trying to kill her, while she was only trying to stop him long enough to release him from the mind control.

In fact, during the fight Wonder Woman stated that she was holding back regardless of whether it was barely, she had plenty of opportunities to kill Superman during that fight and she didn't take any of them. When she slit his throat he was incapacitated for quite a bit of time, during which she could have tied him up with the lasso and snapped his neck, or used her Tiara to just straight up decapitate him. She took the best of what Superman could dish out, fought him off, landed more blows on him, injured him while holding back and released him from mind-control because she didn't want to kill him. Now imagine if she was truly going all out.

Billy does NOT have better strength feats than Wonder Woman, and aside from being bullet-proof he doesn't have better durability feats than her. She also has superior combat speed, and unless someone can show scans that prove otherwise, she can fly faster also.

And here is the best part. At the end of that era, just before the New 52, Diana could channel the lighting of Zeus, which means she can turn Billy back into a boy any time she pleases.

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Beast_mode999

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Someone remind me what the S and Shazam stands for -_-

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KingHype

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@klaus said:

@kinghype: Wonder Woman was at no point at her limits in that fight. Superman was fighting all out trying to kill her, while she was only trying to stop him long enough to release him from the mind control.

In fact, during the fight Wonder Woman stated that she was holding back regardless of whether it was barely, she had plenty of opportunities to kill Superman during that fight and she didn't take any of them. When she slit his throat he was incapacitated for quite a bit of time, during which she could have tied him up with the lasso and snapped his neck, or used her Tiara to just straight up decapitate him. She took the best of what Superman could dish out, fought him off, landed more blows on him, injured him while holding back and released him from mind-control because she didn't want to kill him. Now imagine if she was truly going all out.

Billy does NOT have better strength feats than Wonder Woman, and aside from being bullet-proof he doesn't have better durability feats than her. She also has superior combat speed, and unless someone can show scans that prove otherwise, she can fly faster also.

And here is the best part. At the end of that era, just before the New 52, Diana could channel the lighting of Zeus, which means she can turn Billy back into a boy any time she pleases.

Well, if the thing about the lightning bolt is true and can indeed turn Billy back automatically. Then it is a bad match up for CA in a way. She has the advantage. And apologies on my part for misremembering the battle between the blood lusted SS and WW, it has been awhile.

All I really remembered was Superman tearing at her and trying to fling her into the sun before she came up with some excellent counters to slow him down.

Durability wise.

I'll still give the edge to Billy.

You may correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there an instance where he got hit with something called The Tesseract Bomb in which he was turned inside out. He was able to shrug it off quite quickly though it was stated outright it would have killed the others. This includes Wonder Woman

I believe his magical invulnerability gives him higher durability to shrug off certain attacks that m

http://i.imgur.com/CdUkPQv.jpg

I'm not a very good debater, so I'll stop while I'm ahead. As I said if the lightning bolt thing is true then WW will take it 9/10

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Mooty_Pass

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Wonder Woman should be able to handle him only because she is no stranger in fighting someone strong as Superman.

Wonder Woman wins due to better fighter, better gear.

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Ultra_beleco

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Wonder Woman.

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Sly_141

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Just asking

But can Diana lasso Billy then force him to say Shazam?

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Amendment50

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agent41

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@kinghype: shazam is not faster than her. And durability wise and strength wise they are comparable. Shazam is not Superman's equal in power. So i think it's better to leave him out of this since he is not in this fight.

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agent41

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@sly_141 said:

Just asking

But can Diana lasso Billy then force him to say Shazam?

Yes. And she also has the lightning of Zeus. But in a battle with just their physical stats(strength, speed, durability). There is no reason to believe Diana can't take a majority. Since they are comparable in stats, but Diana has better reflexes and is much more skilled.

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agent41

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#18  Edited By agent41

@stormphoenix: I hope you realize that shazam is not as powerful as Superman. They are in Superman's ballpark. But Superman is above both in overall stats.

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Beast_mode999

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@amendment50:

Ah I see.... so ummm why are people u dermining this and saying that he's a man Child?

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MarvelBro

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@sly_141 said:

Just asking

But can Diana lasso Billy then force him to say Shazam?

That's a really good idea. Never thought about that lol

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KingHype

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#21  Edited By KingHype

@agent41 said:

@stormphoenix: I hope you realize that shazam is not as powerful as Superman. They are in Superman's ballpark. But Superman is above both in overall stats.

I believe that's another debate in itself regarding Superman and Captain Marvel. Billy's shown multiple times he's more than able to keep up with a more serious Superman and a powered up Superman on multiple occasions.

Superman is probably a little stronger physically based on arm wrestling and cause Supes has better overall feats due to more appearances.

But I think Billy's magic and roughy being the same in stats closes the gap enough. I'll give Billy an edge over Superman or at least a straight coin toss WW on the other hand I'll say she takes CM due to lasso and lightning .

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agent41

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@kinghype: More appearances don't always mean better feats. In Superman's case he just has better feats. And there are characters with less appearances than shazam with better feats than him, Superman or Wonder Woman.

Wonder Woman has also shown to be capable to keep up with a serrious Superman in battle. There is no reason to beliee shazam can take a majority against Superman. Clark has overall better stats and is the better fighter.

In a battle with just their physical stats(strength, speed, durability). There is no reason to believe Diana can't take a majority over shazam. Since they are comparable in stats, and Diana has better reflexes and is much more skilled.

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_Logos_

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Captain Marvel wins in a god fight. (No pun-intended hueuhuehue)

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agent41

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Captain Marvel wins in a god fight. (No pun-intended hueuhuehue)

Why?. The same can be said about Wonder Woman.

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AbelHsu

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@marvelbro Not saying who wins(since this is my thread,Lol) but the lasso is a dangerous equipment ,it can also cut through people like MMH or some demon lords.And it's also capable at canceling intangibility/phasing .

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Yarva

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Billy was my favorite character at one point but putting that aside I'd have to pick WW. She has the speed and strength to battle him but the sword and lasso put her over the top.

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ITouchedTheBoat

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#27  Edited By ITouchedTheBoat

Wonder Woman. giving her her equipment is kind of over kill from what I've learned recently

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The_Dog_of_War

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@kinghype:

[Superman is probably a little stronger physically based on arm wrestling]

Captain Marvel stalemated Superman twice in arm wrestling.

•Superman: The Man of Tomorrow #4

•The Power of SHAZAM! #46

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Mooty_Pass

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#29  Edited By Mooty_Pass

@agent41 said:

@stormphoenix: I hope you realize that shazam is not as powerful as Superman. They are in Superman's ballpark. But Superman is above both in overall stats.

That's debatable and not true. Shazam(Captain Marvel) is and has always been directly in Superman's ballpark especially in stats. There are feats that say otherwise.

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blackpantherisb

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WW 6/10

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AbelHsu

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Actually I'm willing to to a CaV,anyone interested in that ?

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agent41

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@agent41 said:

@stormphoenix: I hope you realize that shazam is not as powerful as Superman. They are in Superman's ballpark. But Superman is above both in overall stats.

That's debatable and not true. Shazam(Captain Marvel) is and has always been directly in Superman's ballpark especially in stats. There are feats that say otherwise.

I said both shazam and Wonder Woman are in Superman's ballpark. But he is overall above them in raw power, which is true. shazam vs Wonder Woman. It's a fight between 2 characters with comparable stats. The better fighter should take a majority.

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Mooty_Pass

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@agent41 said:
@stormphoenix said:
@agent41 said:

@stormphoenix: I hope you realize that shazam is not as powerful as Superman. They are in Superman's ballpark. But Superman is above both in overall stats.

That's debatable and not true. Shazam(Captain Marvel) is and has always been directly in Superman's ballpark especially in stats. There are feats that say otherwise.

I said both shazam and Wonder Woman are in Superman's ballpark. But he is overall above them in raw power, which is true. shazam vs Wonder Woman. It's a fight between 2 characters with comparable stats. The better fighter should take a majority.

Again Debatable I personally would say Billy and Clark are equal in terms of every stats for the simple fact they have fought more times and stalemated each other constantly. Wonder Woman is a big threat because she KNOWS how to fight not by her powers. I don't believe Diana is as strong as Clark or Billy yes, Diana has great strength feats, but its not on par with Clark or Billy.

I can agree that the better fighter should win the majority. That's why Wonder Woman wins this fight not becasue how strong she is or how fast she is or how durable, but because she can fight and USE their powers against them. THAT'S what makes Wonder Woman so deadly.......

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termiteone4ever

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WW got this

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agent41

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#35  Edited By agent41

@stormphoenix: Don't come here with duble standard. Saying shazam is equal to Superman but not WW. When feats don't support your claim that shazam is Superman's equal. shazam has no feats to say he is as durable or as fast as Superman. And strength wise SM also has better feats and has overpowered shazam in battle. WW is a threat to both power wise because she is in thier tier and has the power output to damage them. shazam is not faster than Wonder Woman or more durable than her. And Diana has better individual strength feats than shazam. Superman is stronger than both.

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ThePunisherGuns

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@agent41: He is faster than her and stronger and more durable

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JohnAnderson

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@thepunisherguns: Do you have feats to prove he's stronger except fighting Superman?And faster is also debatable, if you look at the feats WW has done.

Skill wise she is way skilled, gear wise she has the lasso that can easily teleport him away or cut him just like it did to MMH

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Mooty_Pass

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@agent41 said:

@stormphoenix: Don't come here with duble standard. Saying shazam is equal to Superman but not WW. When feats don't support your claim that shazam is Superman's equal. shazam has no feats to say he is as durable or as fast as Superman. And strength wise SM also has better feats and has overpowered shazam in battle. WW is a threat to both power wise because she is in thier tier and has the power output to damage them. shazam is not faster than Wonder Woman or more durable than her. And Diana has better individual strength feats than shazam. Superman is stronger than both.

It's not a double standard Shazam has stalemated Superman every time they fight or get serious. Yes their are feats the prove so User @nick1994 has posted them once before in another thread that clearly shows Shazam is just as equal to Superman. I wouldn't exactly say Wonder Woman is not on par with Superman and Shazam. Yes she has the means and powers to do so, but that doesn't make her their equal. Just because you can fight top tiers doesn't automatically MAKE you a TOP Tier this argument is always used for Ironman and it's not the case. Stop using Tier's as excuses that's ALL opinionated. I can say WW is not a Top Tier becasue she can't bust a planet. To me a top tier would be someone who could bust a planet and Wonder Woman can't. THAT'S how easy WW can be knocked down to a Mid-Tier so don't keep using Tier scaling.

WW is a threat because she knows how to fight them she has enough skill to put them down. Her strength and speed and reaction are all the things that helps her counter and be a contender against Superman so he won't blitz her every time they fight.

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AbelHsu

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#39  Edited By AbelHsu

@stormphoenix: Mid tier is someone like Danvers or Namor. Top tier is someone like Majestros,Superman,Thor,BRB,Hulk... blah blah.

High tier is someone like CM or WW...Apex_pretador's Marvel Tier list has something similar. And IIRC CM didn't bust a planet .

Again, not saying who wins.

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agent41

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#40  Edited By agent41

@thepunisherguns said:

@agent41: He is faster than her and stronger and more durable

Based on individual feats she has bettr strength feats, reflexes and combat speed feats, etc.

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agent41

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@stormphoenix: By that logic shazam falls in mid tier too since he hasn't busted a planet either. So.

Who is power scaling here?. I'm not the one bringing up Superman to make a case for Wonder Woman in this battle. I said SM is above both. You are the one saying shazam did this against this character so A=B>C. That's what you are doing, scaling. Wonder Woman is a powerhouse. Superman already overpowered shazam in battle proving to be stronger. And even then, even if he had equal strength to SM. That is only ONE power. In terms of speed and durability. Superman is faster and more durable. He has the feats to prove it. Yet you ignore that and come for WW calling her inferior to shazam. That's double standard. She has better reflexes feats than shazam. She has beter individual strength feats than shazam as well. But it seems that means nothing to you.

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AbelHsu

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@agent41: dude, just some "knowledge",but Post Crisis Billy is called Captain Marvel,Shazam is New 52 Billy(just point out this in case someone get confused). And the gauntlet thread, could you provide feats/debate?I'm on a nearly broken phone now, thanks.

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agent41

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@abelhsu: i prefer to call him shazam.

What gauntlet thread?. There are many.

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AbelHsu

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agent41

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@abelhsu said:

@agent41: The one made by Yarva.

The Wonder Woman runs a gauntlet?. Didn't you post feats there already?.

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AbelHsu

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@agent41: I have some trouble now, I can't quote/post feats because of a garbage phone, and those doesn’t seem enough,so if you have time, thanks.

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ThePunisherGuns

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@johnanderson: I am not saying he win but he has great power and with great power comes great responsability

Wonder woman win

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ThePunisherGuns

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#48  Edited By ThePunisherGuns

@agent41: Ok but his durability is better

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agent41

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@abelhsu: What kind of feats?. I posted speed feats in page 1. Post number 12. Super speed feats. I think everybody knows she is stronger and more durable than any character in that gauntlet. But you think more strength and durability feats should be posted?.

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AbelHsu

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@agent41: kind of, take your time... and I think I’m roughly off topic now, if you have some questions about what I mean, could you PM ?