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#251 Posted by Nucleon (2318 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst: Lol. Wow. Did you seriously just say that Spiderman is faster than Superman and Flash? Wow...Just...wow...I am truly at a loss of words here.

No; I wrote that he is more agile and a better dodger. Speed has little to do with being tagged or not. Spider Man is a heckuva harder to hit than the Flash - and yes, you can quote me on this one.

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#252 Edited by Ashrym (2752 posts) - - Show Bio

@leonardsnart: Aquaman was shown capable against WW in n52 and rebirth so would either need to have similar skill or significantly higher physicals to compensate for her level of skill. She has definitely been portrayed high skill.

He also fought a few of Atlantis's greatest warriors simultaneously, made Cheshire look ineffective, fought Mera (who was trained as an assassin from an early age), stated to be beyond other Atlanteans, and used joint dislocation on Manta (who is also portrayed as extremely highly skilled).

I am not sure a person can state he is as skilled as Wolverine but he's no slouch and clearly so physically superior it should't matter.

The only real argument for Wolverine in this match is Arthur in character talking it out and letting Wolverine catch him by surprise. Given what Aquaman has taken in piercing and blades that he ignored that's not a guarantee either.

A serious Aquaman destroys Wolverine, no doubts.

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#253 Posted by comic_book_fan (10780 posts) - - Show Bio

@ashrym: wolverine beat namor who is faster and stronger on land than aquaman

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#254 Posted by Ashrym (2752 posts) - - Show Bio

@comic_book_fan: That's an opinion. You're entitled to it. I don't agree then Namor is faster or stronger on land.

Claiming Wolverine beats Aquaman because Wolverine has beaten Namor is false equivalency. The versions when this thread started would have Aquaman capable of a TP win, the fight takes place near water, and Aquaman is both faster and stronger on land than he is in water. Post-Flashpoint loses the TP and adds a magical trident as an answer to claws.

Aquaman is faster than Wolverine, stronger than Wolverine, more mobile than Wolverine, more durable than Wolverine, can summon monsters, has better senses, uses magical weapons, has telepathic powers, and even has his own fast-healing.

It's very one-sided against Wolverine. By a lot.

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#255 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (14256 posts) - - Show Bio

Wolverine doesn’t want that smoke.

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#256 Posted by somayareece (753 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure if this is a mismatch but Aquaman would beat him down pretty good

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#257 Posted by comic_book_fan (10780 posts) - - Show Bio

@ashrym: wolverine has telepathy defense capable of giving emma and psylocke problems Aquaman isn't getting through wolverine is more durable and has better healing Aquaman maybe stronger and faster but again namor is comparable i will leave the magic open i don't know much about his mystical powers but in a physical fight wolverine will win he has taken on stronger and comparable characters on the reg and held his own

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#258 Posted by DimlyLitLantern (675 posts) - - Show Bio

@comic_book_fan: Is Logan not consistently overpowered by the likes of Spider-Man and Black Panther because they are stronger and faster? The power difference should cement Aquaman's victory here.

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#259 Edited by Vertigo- (17490 posts) - - Show Bio

@comic_book_fan said:

@ashrym: wolverine has telepathy defense capable of giving emma and psylocke problems

In the same vein, Wolverine has also been read by Mr X and Gorgon multiple times in his own ongoings. Both pale in power to Emma.

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#260 Posted by Ashrym (2752 posts) - - Show Bio

@comic_book_fan: Aquaman's unique TP cut through powerful TP like white martians as if the defense did not exist and empowered MMH to break the link with Despero he was locked into. He's demonstrated planetary TP so giving Psylocke or Frost issues isn't stopping Aquaman. He's even got a feat manipulating individual blood cells or de-evolving an opponent thru TP but those are extreme cases.

Post Flashpoint Aquaman has not demonstrated that level of TP so current Aquaman does not warrant a TP win.

Wolverine has better healing but not better durability. Wolverine's bones can be dislocated or his flesh stripped from those bones. He takes damage from far less than Aquaman has taken.

I would argue Aquaman is faster than Namor or Wolverine. The magical nature of tge trident prevents Wolverine from simply cutting it. Magical weapons are often shown to be beyond adamantium. We've seen it amplify telepathy, commune with water, block and deflect energy and physical attacks, absorb or manipulate or counter magic, grant water breathing, and blast magical energy.

The main function of the Atlantean tident is typically the non-breaking cut-anyrhing style of combat Wolverine employs. Aquaman is low magic unless he has Poseidon's trident.

Speed places him avoiding attacks from Superman and Wonder Woman, speed tackling either, mini-sonic booms from his attacks, etc. That's out of the water. In the water he's clocked high hypersonic and his powerset states he's faster out of the water without the pressure and resistance.

Striking power has knocked Superman out of the Throne of Atlantis fight for significant time and shockwaves striking Superman that were destroying the ground around them in the rebirth fight they had.

I would argue that Aquaman can summon monsters beyond Wolverine because of the proximity to water.

Wolverine is simply far outclassed here. He's a brick buster while Aquaman is more than just a brick.

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#261 Edited by God_Spawn (42764 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst:

I'm sure I could go on because he has many h2h combat instances where he really isn't portrayed as a brawler whereas Wolverine has always been portrayed as a brawler, there are a few instances where he has used his h2h skills but there are far too many instances where his recklessness has cost him the victory, against the likes of Spiderman, Dr Octopus, Deadpool, Venom, and a lot more.

I haven't gone through the whole recent debate, but this caught my eye. Maybe I'm misreading something, but are we suggesting Wolverine is less skilled than Aquaman? And for Wolverine always being a brawler? I mean, him increasing his skill was crucial in his encounters like Ogun and Shingen and may stories back in the 80's and 90's. Him deciding that he needs to be more skilled to fight Sabretooth because he was realizing his animal side wasn't working. He sought out Shang-Chi to become a better fighter in a flashback story in First Class. He took lessons with Elektra when he was further mutating to keep his animal side in check. He sought out Shang and Iron Fist again to keep his skill up when he lost his healing. Manifest Destiny being another story in more modern times. Him getting a refresher course in swordplay because he needed it to beat Daken and he eventually became better than his teacher in the Silver Samurai. He has outskilled Iron Fist, Shang-Chi, Cap (twice), got the upperhand on Daredevil, Black Panther, Daken (twice), Lady Deathstrike (multiple times) all to name a few. He tried outfighting Gorgon, but couldn't since he wasn't better

And in regards to him not fighting with his skill causing him victories, sometimes, when it doesn't matter. His skill is what has kept him in fights with Spider-Man, considering Pete has only KO'd him once, and that was Superior Spider, but that showing was denounced once Yost wrote the stronger Spider in Kaine nearly breaking his hand just punching him, who would also compliment him later on in the same story. The only recklessness was him accidentally stabbing him, and him getting webbed when he got in Parker's face. I can't recall him fighting Doc Ock, only Superior Spider-Man, but I addressed that point already. Deadpool? He's only lost to Deadpool on 2 occasions, one when Logan has his bone claws and his healing factor was burnt out until after that fight and Wade could and did have to heal. He had a prolonged fight with bone claws and eventually got the better of Wade when Wade was acting delusional. Their other fight, Wolverine had Wade disarmed and pinned against a wall in 2-3 pages, Deadpool had the L there. Another fight when Wolverine got the edge up on Wade and didn't actually use his claws until Wade was on the ground and instead of stabbing his face, he stabbed the ground next to it. Wade just happened to have a gun with a bunch of highly potent tranq rounds meant to take down a T-Rex and capitalized when Wolverine let up. So Wade had prep there and still was on the losing end in the straight fight part of it. And the only other L for Logan with him was an in Origins where Wade prepped out the wazoo and still barely won and it was revealed Logan let him to draw out Daken. So no fight with Deadpool where Logan was in actual fighting shape did he get reckless that cost him the fight. And Venom? Physically superior and pretty much immune to Wolverine's only method of attack via the symbiote...and the fact is he's still managed to have extended fights with him. That does nothing against Logan. So none of those fights do anything to support your argument in terms of Logan being reckless since they have powersets or equipment that give them a heads up over him to begin with.

With that said, I'm not here to argue Wolverine wins, in fact, I think Arthur does. Telepathy to affect a white martian, fast enough to contend and just being straight up thousands fold stronger. But I think it is a big reach to completely detract Wolverine's skill and fighting abilities in comparison to Aquaman. I'll say Logan has gotten lazy at times, so you're not entirely wrong. It's been a point in stories before, many of which is involved with him getting coached or re-coached, but to say he's just always been a brawler and reckless is a false statement.

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#262 Posted by LeonardSnart (2478 posts) - - Show Bio

@ashrym: I'm only debating against Rampage's statement that Aquaman is more skilled than Wolverine "without a doubt" which is completly wrong, don't really care who wins here

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#263 Posted by comic_book_fan (10780 posts) - - Show Bio

@dimlylitlantern: wolverine usually does fight evenly with spiderman not saying spiderman isn't stronger and faster he is but the difference isn't nearly enough to make up for wolverine's durability edge and skill.

also panther isn't stronger or faster than wolverine speed is close wolverine is way stronger panther has only pushed wolverine into the x-men and made a quick escape in one issue and in his only other win against wolverine was had no healing was already pretty much dying and was broken mentally. in the only other fight they had of any length wolverine had him pinned and panther had to be saved by ben.

that being said Aquaman is stronger and faster in movement speed wolverine can keep up in in reaction speed and aquaman is more durable by a little in flesh and muscle density but wolverine is more resistant to damage that would kill he will take more punishment but he can take more punishement aquaman stabs wolverine in the head it bounces off his skull rattling him but he will live if wolverine stabs aquaman in the head it's over wolverine has beaten kid gladiator a stronger faster opponet than aquaman with pressure points he has beatan namor a comparable opponet multiple times he has beaten the hulk in there most recent fight and has beat him a few times hulk is way stronger than aquaman he has beaten hercules he has beaten the thing he has beaten rulk he all of them are stronger and more durable than Aquaman so to say this is a stomp in aquaman's favor is silly

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#264 Posted by RampageTheFirst (6570 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst: i already disproved the spiderock fight and iam not so sure spiderman couldn't beat aquaman anyway.

and since you want to lowball

There's a difference between lowballing and straight up posting PIS instances, Arthur clearly hits hit in the stomach on your second scan which is from Legends Of The DC Universe issue 27. A casual punch from Arthur can send the likes of Superboy and MMH flying, are you saying, that Batman tanked a punch that can hurt Kryptonians?

Nice, and I never lowballed him, it has happened on multiple occasions, the overall outcome of the fight may have been different but he still got KO'd by Spiderman and on multiple occasions that is. At least learn to lowball properly.

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#265 Posted by DimlyLitLantern (675 posts) - - Show Bio

@comic_book_fan: Can Wolverine break out of solid ice or does he have a telepathic resistance beyond a white martians? Spider-Man is able to dance around Wolverine and overpower him. Arthur should be able to do the same. His trident also allows for teleportation to the sea. Somewhere where Wolverine doesn’t shine quite as well. There is also the fact that Hulk doesn’t really fight akin to Aquaman. Arthur should be able to give Logan a concussion with repeated non held back blows to the head like Hulk did. Even Deathstroke, someone statistically similar to Wolverine can hardly get past his raw power. Aquaman should win this battle just fine.

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#266 Posted by Supermanthor (10190 posts) - - Show Bio
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#267 Edited by Nucleon (2318 posts) - - Show Bio

@ashrym said:

@comic_book_fan: That's an opinion. You're entitled to it. I don't agree then Namor is faster or stronger on land.

Claiming Wolverine beats Aquaman because Wolverine has beaten Namor is false equivalency. The versions when this thread started would have Aquaman capable of a TP win, the fight takes place near water, and Aquaman is both faster and stronger on land than he is in water. Post-Flashpoint loses the TP and adds a magical trident as an answer to claws.

Aquaman is faster than Wolverine, stronger than Wolverine, more mobile than Wolverine, more durable than Wolverine, can summon monsters, has better senses, uses magical weapons, has telepathic powers, and even has his own fast-healing.

It's very one-sided against Wolverine. By a lot.

Waitaminute here: Namor was, is, and always will be a Superman relative, ever since he was created. In the Defenders he was regularly taking on the Hulk - He is also a regular opponent of Hercules, and in both cases, he didn't often lost. These are the Big Bad Leagues in the Art of Bricking down at Marvel's, and the Submariner's part of it since its very inception.

Aquaman is stronger than Wolverine, he's got a mentalist aspect and he can have backup in the ocean. That's what he got over Wolverine, who's got animal-like senses, animal-like reflexes, some of the most feared edged weapons in 616 (which can't be disarmed), ridiculous durability (he's un-killeable as far as Aquaman is concerned) and the skill of the best martial artists.

Wolverine isn't a street-leveler: He first appeared as an opponent for the Hulk. He is an perfectly synergetic anti-brick, and Aquaman is basically a mediocre brick plus some ocean-based extras. Sure, he won't get one-shotted by Wolverine, but every blow he will suffer will diminish him while Wolverine just gets more feral as he heals everything. The longer this fight lasts, the better are Wolverine's odds.

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#268 Posted by Nucleon (2318 posts) - - Show Bio

@dimlylitlantern: Is Logan not consistently overpowered by the likes of Spider-Man and Black Panther because they are stronger and faster? The power difference should cement Aquaman's victory here.

At Marvel's power isn't linear like that. It's more of a rock-paper-scissors thing. Wolverine being efficient against bricks doesn't mean he is as good against agile types like Spider Man and the Black Panther, who are no slouches in both cases, BTW - IMO both of them would beat Aquaman too.

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#269 Posted by RampageTheFirst (6570 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol...What am I reading, I've lost so many braincells reading posts from users who don't know what they're talking about.

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#270 Edited by hurricanefunnel (1853 posts) - - Show Bio

@decoy_elite said:

Aqua Man is Superman level strength wise. He punches Wolverine into another state, I can post scans if proof is needed.

copy that [despite this post = unbiased -- at least the copy part]

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#271 Edited by comic_book_fan (10780 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst: lol batman has fought etrigan lobo and wonderwoman in similar instances he has also beat grundy twice and oneshotted him the last time it's not really pis granted he lost to them ultimately but they are all stronger than Aquaman i mean now everyone who has superstrength in dc is now superman lol Aquaman might be strong enough to fight superman but he isn't nearly as strong as superman. and i showed wolverine ultimately had spiderman beat in the fight that your talking about and he was holding back.

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#272 Posted by LeonardSnart (2478 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst: so we're ignoring the part where your claim about Aquaman "without a doubt" being more skilled than Wolverine was debunked? Okay

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#273 Posted by jay_z94 (7796 posts) - - Show Bio

Wolverine wins if this fight takes place on land.

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#274 Posted by DimlyLitLantern (675 posts) - - Show Bio

@nucleon: Spider-Man and BP beating Aquaman? That's not super far off from saying they beat Wonder Woman or Superman as well. I understand Wolverine is durable, but he is completely outclassed by Arthur in nearly every single way. His trident can harm Darkseid, freeze people, summon lightning, and allow him to teleport. His telepathy can even shut down white martians as well as briefly match Despero. Even if we just stick to New 52 beyond showings, Arthur's raw strength should be something Wolverine can't cope with. Sure Wolverine can trade with Hulk, but Hulk isn't quite as fast as Arthur and they don't have comparable fighting styles. Arthur getting him close and hitting Logan's head numerous time similar to how WWH did seems like a pretty effective way of giving Logan a concussion and leave him out of the fight. Even Deathstroke could barely put a dent in Arthur and he has similar stats to Logan. Wolverine's speed isn't helping him as AM can keep up with the much faster Wonder Woman and his durability isn't a saving grace as, even on land, Arthur can harm Superman and has a trident that can pierce just about anything.

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#275 Edited by Nucleon (2318 posts) - - Show Bio

@dimlylitlantern: Spider-Man and BP beating Aquaman? That's not super far off from saying they beat Wonder Woman or Superman as well.

Spider Man can't hurt neither, but otherwise he'd dominate the fight in terms of scoring. Black Panther can also hurt WW quite a bit with his vibranium claws, and maybe even Arthur. Spider is much more efficient than people give him credit for, notably his strength. Spidey gave Namor a couple of good fights.

I understand Wolverine is durable, but he is completely outclassed by Arthur in nearly every single way. His trident can harm Darkseid, freeze people, summon lightning, and allow him to teleport. His telepathy can even shut down white martians as well as briefly match Despero. Even if we just stick to New 52 beyond showings, Arthur's raw strength should be something Wolverine can't cope with. Sure Wolverine can trade with Hulk, but Hulk isn't quite as fast as Arthur and they don't have comparable fighting styles.

First, the Hulk, any Hulk, is damn fast. In combat speed (not travel speed), IMO he is way faster than many people, including Aquaman, who isn't even renowned in combat speed. The bit with the White Martians was a bit of a PIS stretch, to be honest (and not the only one in this story), but yeah, some of Aquaman's trident features could reasonably hinder Wolverine, but cannot put him down. Wolverine regularly gets hit by the Hulk and he's still there to tell about it. He's a helluva tanker, consistantly.

Arthur getting him close and hitting Logan's head numerous time similar to how WWH did seems like a pretty effective way of giving Logan a concussion and leave him out of the fight.

Please, Aquaman is miles away from WWH.

Even Deathstroke could barely put a dent in Arthur and he has similar stats to Logan. Wolverine's speed isn't helping him as AM can keep up with the much faster Wonder Woman and his durability isn't a saving grace as, even on land, Arthur can harm Superman and has a trident that can pierce just about anything.

Deathstroke has no adamantium skeleton and claws. Wolverine is comparable to WW in combat speed, and martial skill, except WW lacks the piercing durability to survive Wolverine. Aquaman is admitedly better equipped in this domain and for this fight, but like I've wrote he is going to feel Wolverine's adamantium edge - there's no way he can no-sell it. There won't be any cheap shots like a throat thing or a one-shot, but tear and wear that will eventually take its toll on Aquaman, IMO.

Here's a little something just for fun. =)

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#276 Posted by DimlyLitLantern (675 posts) - - Show Bio

@nucleon:

Spider is much more efficient than people give him credit for, notably his strength.

Spidey gave Namor a couple of good fights.

I am not harping on Spider-Man. It is just that he should be at least a couple tiers behind Aquaman. Peter's max is maybe 58 tons while Aquaman is a casual multi-thousand tonner even on land.

Namor isn't Aquaman.

First, the Hulk, any Hulk, is damn fast. IMO he is way faster than many people, including Aquaman, who isn't even renowned in combat speed.

I rather doubt he could keep up with WW in close quarters combat. He also likely isn't fast enough to keep up with MMH or white martians. Aquaman is quick when he needs to be. He is faster than Superman underwater and can briefly overwhelm MMH and WW in similar conditions.

The bit with the White Martians was a bit of a PIS stretch, to be honest

How so? He was also able to briefly match Despero with his own TP and can even resist beings with great telepathic ability.

but yeah, some of Aquaman's trident features could reasonably hinder Wolverine,

Can Wolverine break out of solid ice on his own?

Wolverine regularly gets hit by the Hulk and he's still there to tell about it. He's a helluva tanker, consistantly.

Please, Aquaman is miles away from WWH.

When Hulk fought Logan intelligently and hit him repeatedly in the head, that rather incapacitated him. What is keeping Arthur from doing something similar? He doesn't really need to be on Hulk's level. He only needs to be physically strong enough to restrain him and hit him with multi-thousand ton blows to the head.

Wolverine is comparable to WW in combat speed, and martial skill, except WW lacks the piercing durability to survive Wolverine.

Is Wolverine was faster than light by a significant margin or even hypersonic or does he have numerous feats of outpacing blood-lusted kryptonians? Is Logan listed as one of Marvel's fastest beings? Saying Wolverine is as fast as WW is like saying Captain America is as fast as Flash or Superman.

Aquaman is admitedly better equipped, but like I've wrote he is going to feel Wolverine's adamantium edge - there's no way he can no-sell it. There won't be any cheap shots like a throat thing or a one-shot, but tear and wear that will eventually take its toll on Aquaman, IMO.

Aquaman is stronger, faster, and far more versatile than Logan. How is he going to stop Arthur from teleporting to the ocean? Can he break out of being frozen solid? Can he resist high tier telepathy? How many blows can he tank before he starts to feel the concussion? Can he fend off a being as powerful as Topo? Really the only thing that keeps him as a threat are his claws which Aquaman should be able to avoid with moderate thought. The stat difference is too large.

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#277 Posted by butterflykyss (5739 posts) - - Show Bio

why isnt this closed. wolverine would lose horribly

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#278 Posted by TheVivas (18975 posts) - - Show Bio

Still Aquaman, still easily. It’s laughable this has been pushed to six pages.

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#279 Posted by IntoTheVoid (869 posts) - - Show Bio

Still don't see why Arthur can't just slap him miles away.

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#280 Posted by Nucleon (2318 posts) - - Show Bio

@dimlylitlantern: Namor >>> Aquaman. Namor isn't "second only to Superman"; Namor is a Superman contemporary, and has always been in his class. And yet even he isn't auto-winning on Logan. Wolverine first appeared as a Hulk opponent; He is made to fight bricks, bricks much more potent than poor ol' Arthur, guys like the Hulk and the Juggernaut. If anything stronger than Wolverine could beat him, then Wolverine would be beaten by 99% of Marvel characters.

Sure, Arthur's got an array of lesser, inconsistant powers, but unless PIS is involved, there's no way these can durably affect Wolverine, who can resist the X-Men's numerous bona fide TPs and TKs on a regular basis. I don't put too much stock on Aquaman, the ice energy projector, for lack of concept and consistancy - DC is often known to pull random powers out their characters' arses, only to never been seen again, and among these Morrisson's work is central. Let us stick with consistency.

Yes, Aquaman can give Wolverine a good fight, but he can't put him down, whereas Wolverine certainly can put Aquaman down. Wolverine is way faster in combat speed (which is much more important than travel speed in a fight), he is much more skilled, and what he lacks in term of strength is overcompensated with adamantium.

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#281 Posted by jay_z94 (7796 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't see how Aquaman stomps if they are fighting on land.

Logan is much more skilled, can tank most of his hits and can one-shot Arthur.

Speed-wise, I haven't see anything from Arthur to suggest he's faster than Logan in combat speed.

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#282 Posted by gunchar16 (1676 posts) - - Show Bio

@nucleon said:

@dimlylitlantern: Spider-Man and BP beating Aquaman? That's not super far off from saying they beat Wonder Woman or Superman as well.

Spider Man can't hurt neither, but otherwise he'd dominate the fight in terms of scoring. Black Panther can also hurt WW quite a bit with his vibranium claws, and maybe even Arthur. Spider is much more efficient than people give him credit for, notably his strength. Spidey gave Namor a couple of good fights.

I understand Wolverine is durable, but he is completely outclassed by Arthur in nearly every single way. His trident can harm Darkseid, freeze people, summon lightning, and allow him to teleport. His telepathy can even shut down white martians as well as briefly match Despero. Even if we just stick to New 52 beyond showings, Arthur's raw strength should be something Wolverine can't cope with. Sure Wolverine can trade with Hulk, but Hulk isn't quite as fast as Arthur and they don't have comparable fighting styles.

First, the Hulk, any Hulk, is damn fast. In combat speed (not travel speed), IMO he is way faster than many people, including Aquaman, who isn't even renowned in combat speed. The bit with the White Martians was a bit of a PIS stretch, to be honest (and not the only one in this story), but yeah, some of Aquaman's trident features could reasonably hinder Wolverine, but cannot put him down. Wolverine regularly gets hit by the Hulk and he's still there to tell about it. He's a helluva tanker, consistantly.

Arthur getting him close and hitting Logan's head numerous time similar to how WWH did seems like a pretty effective way of giving Logan a concussion and leave him out of the fight.

Please, Aquaman is miles away from WWH.

Even Deathstroke could barely put a dent in Arthur and he has similar stats to Logan. Wolverine's speed isn't helping him as AM can keep up with the much faster Wonder Woman and his durability isn't a saving grace as, even on land, Arthur can harm Superman and has a trident that can pierce just about anything.

Deathstroke has no adamantium skeleton and claws. Wolverine is comparable to WW in combat speed, and martial skill, except WW lacks the piercing durability to survive Wolverine. Aquaman is admitedly better equipped in this domain and for this fight, but like I've wrote he is going to feel Wolverine's adamantium edge - there's no way he can no-sell it. There won't be any cheap shots like a throat thing or a one-shot, but tear and wear that will eventually take its toll on Aquaman, IMO.

Here's a little something just for fun. =)

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No Caption Provided

That post just gave me cancer and Aquaman stomps.

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#283 Edited by DimlyLitLantern (675 posts) - - Show Bio

@nucleon:

Namor >>> Aquaman.

I don't think so.

Namor isn't "second only to Superman"; Namor is a Superman contemporary, and has always been in his class.

Namor with Superman? That is a pretty bold statement. Namor has been one shotted by bare handed Thor at least twice, and I don't even believe Thor's strength without Mjolnir is on Superman's level. Has Namor ever lifted, dragged, thrown, or destroyed a planet on his own? Can he survive the destruction of a planet or 8 while weakened?

Wolverine first appeared as a Hulk opponent; He is made to fight bricks, bricks much more potent than poor ol' Arthur, guys like the Hulk and the Juggernaut

Aquaman isn't a brick, he is quite swift when he needs to be.

If anything stronger than Wolverine could beat him, then Wolverine would be beaten by 99% of Marvel characters.

Aquaman is stronger, faster, more versatile, and has access to weapons that can even harm skyfather class beings.

Sure, Arthur's got an array of lesser, inconsistant powers, but unless PIS is involved, there's no way these can durably affect Wolverine,

Arthur could just drown him. Teleport them to any body of water and win easily. Even on land, Wolverine shouldn't be a massive threat to Arthur.

who can resist the X-Men's numerous bona fide TPs and TKs on a regular basis.

Are they as strong as white martians?

I don't put too much stock on Aquaman, the ice energy projector, for lack of concept and consistancy - DC is often known to pull random powers out their characters' arses

He can do that with his trident if he has it. Can Wolverine break out of being frozen solid? And besides, Marvel characters do that too. Thor? Silver Surfer?

Yes, Aquaman can give Wolverine a good fight, but he can't put him down, whereas Wolverine certainly can put Aquaman down. Wolverine is way faster in combat speed (which is much more important than travel speed in a fight)

Can Wolverine consistently keep up with casual hypersonic+++ opponents like Wonder Woman, Superman, White Martians, or MMH? If so, who?

he is much more skilled, and what he lacks in term of strength is overcompensated with adamantium.

Skill doesn't really matter when your opponent is over a thousand times stronger than you. Besides, Aquaman is a rather skilled fighter.

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#284 Posted by JOVIOLMA (4901 posts) - - Show Bio

By my knowledge, Aquaman

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#285 Posted by destinyman75 (13312 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't even know why this is a debate. Logan doesn't stand but one tiny chance here and that if Logan is able to suprise then put claws directly into his eye sockets into the brain that's a tiny chance. Other then that Aquaman should easily put Logan down he's on another tier

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#286 Edited by jay_z94 (7796 posts) - - Show Bio

@destinyman75 said:

I don't even know why this is a debate. Logan doesn't stand but one tiny chance here and that if Logan is able to surprise then put claws directly into his eye sockets into the brain that's a tiny chance. Other then that Aquaman should easily put Logan down he's on another tier

How does Logan not stand a chance? On land I haven't seen anything from Arthur to suggest he's faster than Logan in combat speed. On top of this Logan is much more skilled and would be able to take some hits too.

No, Logan doesn't need to put his claws into Arthur's eye sockets. His adamantium claws will easily cut through Arthur's flesh and bone. Can Arthur regrow limbs or vital organs?

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#287 Posted by agent41 (14917 posts) - - Show Bio

@jay_z94 said:
@destinyman75 said:

I don't even know why this is a debate. Logan doesn't stand but one tiny chance here and that if Logan is able to surprise then put claws directly into his eye sockets into the brain that's a tiny chance. Other then that Aquaman should easily put Logan down he's on another tier

How does Logan not stand a chance? On land I haven't seen anything from Arthur to suggest he's faster than Logan in combat speed. On top of this Logan is much more skilled and would be able to take some hits too.

No, Logan doesn't need to put his claws into Arthur's eye sockets. His adamantium claws will easily cut through Arthur's flesh and bone. Can Arthur regrow limbs or vital organs?

He is far stronger and durable than logan. His speed on land is not below wolverine. He has TP powers, his trident etc.

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#288 Posted by agent41 (14917 posts) - - Show Bio

@ashrym said:

@leonardsnart: Aquaman was shown capable against WW in n52 and rebirth so would either need to have similar skill or significantly higher physicals to compensate for her level of skill. She has definitely been portrayed high skill.

He also fought a few of Atlantis's greatest warriors simultaneously, made Cheshire look ineffective, fought Mera (who was trained as an assassin from an early age), stated to be beyond other Atlanteans, and used joint dislocation on Manta (who is also portrayed as extremely highly skilled).

I am not sure a person can state he is as skilled as Wolverine but he's no slouch and clearly so physically superior it should't matter.

The only real argument for Wolverine in this match is Arthur in character talking it out and letting Wolverine catch him by surprise. Given what Aquaman has taken in piercing and blades that he ignored that's not a guarantee either.

A serious Aquaman destroys Wolverine, no doubts.

I have never seen aquaman portrayed as stronger or more powerful than WW in New 52. She is more powerful and skilled than him.

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#289 Edited by jay_z94 (7796 posts) - - Show Bio

@agent41 said:
@jay_z94 said:
@destinyman75 said:

I don't even know why this is a debate. Logan doesn't stand but one tiny chance here and that if Logan is able to surprise then put claws directly into his eye sockets into the brain that's a tiny chance. Other then that Aquaman should easily put Logan down he's on another tier

How does Logan not stand a chance? On land I haven't seen anything from Arthur to suggest he's faster than Logan in combat speed. On top of this Logan is much more skilled and would be able to take some hits too.

No, Logan doesn't need to put his claws into Arthur's eye sockets. His adamantium claws will easily cut through Arthur's flesh and bone. Can Arthur regrow limbs or vital organs?

He is far stronger and durable than logan. His speed on land is not below wolverine. He has TP powers, his trident etc.

Yes he is stronger, but strength isn't that important when you're fighting Logan.

His durability can easily be bypassed by Logan's claws.

I never said he's slower, I just I haven't seen anything to suggest that Arthur is faster than Logan on land in combat speed. On top of this, Logan is far more skilled.

With TP and similar hax, then yeah, Arthur would take the majority. I'm not saying that Logan definitely wins, I just feel like he's being under-estimated here, while Arthur is being over-estimated, especially in regards to his speed.

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#290 Posted by agent41 (14917 posts) - - Show Bio

@jay_z94 said:
@agent41 said:
@jay_z94 said:
@destinyman75 said:

I don't even know why this is a debate. Logan doesn't stand but one tiny chance here and that if Logan is able to surprise then put claws directly into his eye sockets into the brain that's a tiny chance. Other then that Aquaman should easily put Logan down he's on another tier

How does Logan not stand a chance? On land I haven't seen anything from Arthur to suggest he's faster than Logan in combat speed. On top of this Logan is much more skilled and would be able to take some hits too.

No, Logan doesn't need to put his claws into Arthur's eye sockets. His adamantium claws will easily cut through Arthur's flesh and bone. Can Arthur regrow limbs or vital organs?

He is far stronger and durable than logan. His speed on land is not below wolverine. He has TP powers, his trident etc.

Yes he is stronger, but strength isn't that important when you're fighting Logan.

His durability can easily be bypassed by Logan's claws.

I never said he's slower, I just I haven't seen anything to suggest that Arthur is faster than Logan on land in combat speed. On top of this, Logan is far more skilled.

With TP and similar hax, then yeah, Arthur would take the majority. I'm not saying that Logan definitely wins, I just feel like he's being under-estimated here, while Arthur is being over-estimated, especially in regards to his speed.

With the people saying wolverine wins, that namor is Supeman level, that wolverine is as fast as Wonder Woman. I don't think wolverine is the one being understimated here.

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#291 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@jay_z94:

With TP and similar hax, then yeah, Arthur would take the majority. I'm not saying that Logan definitely wins, I just feel like he's being under-estimated here, while Arthur is being over-estimated, especially in regards to his speed.

This sounds fair, although I agree Aquaman should take a majority even without hax. But I’m no Aquaman expert.

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#292 Edited by comic_book_fan (10780 posts) - - Show Bio

@agent41: ractionspeed wolverine can match most of diana's feats and all of Aquamans look when did Aquaman become manhunter let alone superman in stats saying wolverine can fight superman is silly namor isn't superman but he is just as close as Aquaman superman could duplicate Aquaman's best strength feat with his pinky Aquaman lasting more than 2 hits against a serious superman is utterly ridicules he shouldn't last 5 minutes against wonder woman and using quantifible feats namor is every bit as as strong durable and as fast as aquaman and going by ABC logic batman has beaten all 3 more times than i can count and sometimes all at once. but thats besides the point.

could wolverine beat superman no could he beat wonder woman not for a majority but he could steal a few can he beat Aquaman yes wolverine takes a slight majority .

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#293 Posted by agent41 (14917 posts) - - Show Bio

@agent41: ractionspeed wolverine can match most of diana's feats and all of Aquamans look when did Aquaman become manhunter let alone superman in stats saying wolverine can fight superman is silly namor isn't superman but he is just as close as Aquaman superman could duplicate Aquaman's best strength feat with his pinky Aquaman lasting more than 2 hits against a serious superman is utterly ridicules he shouldn't last 5 minutes against wonder woman and using quantifible feats namor is every bit as as strong durable and as fast as aquaman and going by ABC logic batman has beaten all 3 more times than i can count and sometimes all at once. but thats besides the point.

could wolverine beat superman no could he beat wonder woman not for a majority but he could steal a few can he beat Aquaman yes wolverine takes a slight majority .

No he can't.

Unless PIS is involvced wolverine has no business fighting WW.

Aquaman far surpassess wolverine in strength. He also has access to strong TP, he has gear and he is not unskilled in terms of fighting.

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#294 Posted by comic_book_fan (10780 posts) - - Show Bio

@agent41: a feat isn't pis just because you don't like it.

pis is where the writer writes themselves into a corner and has to make something stupid up to have the happy ending like the onslaught ending or thanos leaving the ig on the ground and traiding ig power for eternities powers for no good reason or cyclops just happening to find Apocalypse's weakspot by chance

wolverine doesnt need pis to beat aquaman he has the consistant feats to do it

i decided to explain and show an example of pis because alot of people just use the term to explain away feats they dont like even though it's a major part of the character and has been consistent for foreever

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#295 Posted by foxerdes (9773 posts) - - Show Bio

Dis a fight?

Online
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#296 Posted by Mooty_Pass (9475 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman for the Win.

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#297 Posted by jay_z94 (7796 posts) - - Show Bio

@agent41: Saying Namor is Superman level isn't highballing Wolverine. The number of people saying Wolverine is as fast as Diana (like 2 people?) is dwarfed by the number of people saying Arthur Stomps.

We know the advantages they hold over each other. What I'm most interested in, is how people came to the conclusion that Arthur is faster than Logan in combat speed on land.

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#298 Posted by Ashrym (2752 posts) - - Show Bio

@nucleon: @jay_z94: @comic_book_fan:

It's a mismatch due to telepathy. Assuming TP was not meant to be used it's a stomp for Aquaman because Aquaman's speed, strength, and durability are far higher than you seem to realized. Strength doesn't seem to be much in contention but lifting city blocks is easily far, far, far beyond Wolverine. Dropping a building on Wolverine beats him. Durability on Wolverine's skeleton does not mean durability on flesh, which is pretty standard, although I don't disagree adamantium should bypass Aquaman's durability. Aquaman has his best feats against blunt and energy, and while it takes special weapons to injure him he can be injured.

I would add that he took an energy blast that one-shot Orion, was stated that he could punch MMH back to Mars, and pulled a leg lock on new gods with the statement he was strong enough to break their necks. The comment earlier that Aquaman has a little more muscle density than Wolverine was also ridiculous. Aquaman has muscle density 10 time that of a human and similar to steel. Marvel Asgardians have muscle density 3 times that of a human and similar to concrete. Aquaman has muscle density about 3 times that of a Marvel Asgardian. That's a hellalot more than a little bit.

The bigger issue is that you don't understand how fast Aquaman actually is. You have him pegged somewhere in the super-soldier level from what I can see when he's far, far, far beyond that too. I am not sure how familiar you are with the Sovereign Seven, particularly Finale or Reflex, but those are characters who are faster than Wolverine. Aquaman speed >> Finale's speed. To back that up:

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I included those images because of the distance Reflex covers after the shots were fired to beat the bullets to a point blank target and Finale matching that speed to disable the police shooting. The second two are just a couple images of Reflex using his speed. I can give more on Reflex speed vs bullets. What's more impressive is Reflex hanging with Impulse.

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Reflex is capable of punking Impulse when Reflex pushes it as Reflex dodges Impulse repeatedly and then tags Impulse with ease. Finale is capable of solo ground crewing a forest fire after the rest of her team is disabled. That's speed and focus.

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Finale is capable defeating Reflex's speed, strength, and reflexes in training exercises.

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I do not believe Finale is as fast as Reflex. I see a combination of her own speed, reflexes, agility, and manipulation of her opponent in those images. She is fast enough as demonstrated, however, to be beyond high street level speeds. Finale sees people who move faster than the eye can follow in slow motion; and not fodder eyes other members of the S7's.

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Finale has speed, reflexes, and perception above Wolverine. She's nothing compared to Aquaman.

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Aquaman is too fast for her to perceive as he cuts her faster than she can comprehend. She is an alien who's has adapted to deep ocean living on her home world who has superhuman levels of speed, strength, durability, and perceptions and not at a disadvantage fighting in the water. Aquaman, OTH, has always been faster and stronger on land without the water pressure and resistance.

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Aquaman has always been faster and stronger outside of the ocean depths. Any speed or strength feat is applicable on land. As you can see, he can use that speed outside of the water. Every time I see someone comment about Aquaman on land feats it looks to me like that person does not know or is unwilling to accept how his powers work.

Aside from the version in the OP being capable of a telepathic win and having overwhelming speed (and other physicals), all he has to do is leap away into the water where he gains maneuverability and better healing rate while he summons sea creatures at will to overwhelm Wolverine while he can strike at whatever opportunities he desires.

That version of Aquaman has legit wins over gods like Triton and powerful beings like Tiamat. Again, Aquaman has this easily.

@agent41:

I have never seen aquaman portrayed as stronger or more powerful than WW in New 52. She is more powerful and skilled than him.

Aquaman has been shown to be on Wonder Woman's level post flashpoint multiple times. She's even stated as much.

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We have his showings facing the trinity in Throne of Atlantis, their battle in Aquaman Annual 2, and the recent Justice League face off where they fought each other to a standstill to back that up. We also have his fights with Superman, Swamp Thing, Hercules, and Martian Manhunter backing it up. And we have side by sides such as Wonder Woman and Aquaman against Rao saving Superman.

I can give scans and examples. There was a clear move to establish him up in that ballpark. It's not possible for him to fight on her level without either being of comparable skill and power, or else if either of those is significantly the lower then that other would need to be higher to compensate. Before MMH rejoined the team, he was the only character supposedly capable of a physical fight against Superman other than Wonder Woman from the writers' comments in interviews.

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#299 Posted by Koays (10145 posts) - - Show Bio

I....what???

Wolverine gets stomped.

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#300 Edited by agent41 (14917 posts) - - Show Bio

@ashrym: We have never seen an all out fight between them in new 52 and onwards. My respond was due to your other comment that seemed to suggest he is stronger or more powerful than her and that is not the case. Which is why i said i have never seen him portrayed as more powerful than WW in new 52 and onwards. He is definitely not above her.