Wolverine & Captain America vs. Spider-Man & Daredevil

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#101 Posted by G-regula (22 posts) - - Show Bio

Wolverine takes Spider-man. I accept castleking's argument that Spidey and Logan have nearly evenly-matched power sets, with Spidey having a slight advantage. Feats take the day though, with Wolvie looking very impressive. Spidey doesn't seem as competent.
 
Which is what this boils down to. Logan and Cap have over 100 years of combined battle experience. They are both superhumanly strong and fast. Logan's the hardest to kill by far, with his skill, HF, and adamantium skeleton. DD and Spidey do have impressive talents/powers, and they do work well as a team, but I think team 1 pulls a clear victory out of this.

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#102 Posted by Rutger0 (4 posts) - - Show Bio

Spider-man and Logan are evenly matched it could go either way. Spider-man has speed, strength and webs. Logan has durability, fighting skills and claws. 
 
Bucky Cap stalemates DD. DD has enhanced senses Bucky has the shield. 
Steven Cap beats DD because he's stronger, faster, more durable and better stamina.  
 
Steven Cap should be able to hang in a while against Spider-man, but ultimately loose.  
Bucky Cap looses 9/10 to Spider-man (he might score a surprise win). 
    
DD shouldn't have much of a chanse against logan, he can hang in for a while trying to outsmart and outmanouvre him, but that's it.
 
Team1 (Bucky) wins 4-5/10
Team1 (Steven) wins 7/10

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#103 Posted by Satyrquaze (4539 posts) - - Show Bio

I kinda feel sorry for Spidey and DD here.
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#104 Posted by mv (2068 posts) - - Show Bio

Aye carumba this is still going ? Team 2 man just let it go people

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#105 Posted by castleking (24741 posts) - - Show Bio

seems to me your opinion is currently the minority here and on other sites

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#106 Posted by xan84 (4232 posts) - - Show Bio

Wolverine is = or > Spiderman and > DD 
Cap (rogers) is = spiderman and >DD 
 
Team 1 wins this
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#107 Posted by Static Shock (53046 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:
"stop with the BS excuse that spidey is always holding back routine its gotten old... 
It's the truth, actually. The only time he's not holding back is during Back in Black saga. It's pretty obvious, seeing that Kingpin was able to fighting years before Peter went damn near crazy (after Aunt May got shot) and beat Kingpin within an inch of his life. If he fought most of his human level opponents (Daredevil, Moon Knight, Shang Chi, and probably Iron Fist) like he did Kingpin during Back in Black, Spider-Man would win every time. No stalemates or anything. Even before the Back in Black saga, he goes all out on certain enemies, but doesn't put the same pressure on others. We see him go all out on people like Morlun (pound for pound), but he lets people like Iron Fist get the best of him? It's awfully obvious.
 
I'm aware of the fact that Wolverine punks Spider-Man on a regular basis, and that Spider-Man is afraid of Wolverine. But, it's just CIS, and it looks as if Spidey and Wolvie are always put together to size each other up. The whole thing about Spidey getting owned Wolverine's cannon fodder is a different issue, and I'm pretty sure that (without plot reasons) Spidey could take some of Wolverine's villains without a problem.
 
@castleking said:
" again you dont read comics.  spidey is slightly faster not enough to make a difference..  
a) logan has mirrored and matched spidey's reflex attacks and maneuvers.
 b) logan has used his own version of agility alongside spidey to avoid  lasers  
c) logan has outfought and out reflexive spidey in multiple showing with both characters facing the exact same opponent and in the exact same condition... and even logan's feats in that arena blow spidey's out of the water... spidey dodges and avoids 10 to 20 bank robbers or high tech soldiers.. logan evades thousands of them or 100 alien centurion all above peak human physiology and laser guns without taking a hit..   
 d) spidey has attacked logan numerous times without provocation and the majority of the time he got punked  by logan and gut checked for the easy win(*spidey backing down no longer wants to fight b/c he got the wind knocked out of his sails)
e)  strength dont mean squat logan allowed spidey to pound on him, spidey punched logan with all of his strength like a neumatic jack and couldnt stop logan from smiling at him and he even hurt his hand......   
you act like spidey has a major advantage when he barely has one slight iota of one. his comic showings with them both make them near equal with logan having the major higher feats against similar or the same enemies....  what it takes a whole day for spidey to beat one character it took logan a few panels to take out his most dangerous most powerful ones... and all b/c logan was worried for spidey...  only PIS here is that ppl seem to want to ignore mountains of marvel history and comparison to favor spidey when it says otherwise "
Addressing part C, maybe Wolverine did evade or outmaneuver alien centurion, but you can't compare that to bank robbers. Those are two different groups of enemies and Wolverine normally fights on a team that deals with higher scale threats, while Spidey is protecting New York and only New York, most of the time. In any case, I don't see why Spidey couldn't evade or outmaneuver the same plethora of enemies that Wolverine has, seeing that they are all peak-human and Spider-Man is superhuman with the strength, speed, agility, and reflexes to do so.  
 
As for Spidey taking a whole day to beat one character, haven't you noticed that Spidey jokes around with his enemies in battle, messing with their heads, while Wolverine goes in for the kill every time without playing around, not to mention that they are both written by two different writers? Both of them have their own way of dealing with enemies, and are portrayed been different people writing their books. Just because Wolverine can take out an enemy in a few panels doesn't exactly make him better than Spidey.
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#108 Posted by Static Shock (53046 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:
" i didnt realize spidey moved up from a few high tech bank robbers to facing a thousand ninjas.. "
Black Panther and several other people that aren't even on Spider-Man's level fought several ninjas. The Hand ninjas are cannon fodder, and dealing with them isn't a significant feat. They are no better than the Foot Soldiers from TMNT. LOL. Spidey could take them if he wanted. As a matter of fact, I remember Spidey fighting the Hand ninjas in a New Avengers comic book without any problems. That was before the Civil War, I might add.
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#109 Posted by castleking (24741 posts) - - Show Bio

your right i guess, but spidey struggles with dodging average joe schmoe bank robbers and thugs and yes he has bn hit beaten and shot by them....   to say he can replicate logans high end feats and putting him in the exact same setting and saying he wont be hit is over estimating spidey abilities and his character and decades worth of feats that say otherwise.. if he gets hit consistently by humans how can he possibly engage and alien army with powers and abilities and tech far above what he normally faces and not get hit when he regularly gets hit.
 
now saying that spidey always holds back and referencing kingpin doesnt say much for spidey.
 
kingpin isnt a meta with above peak or superhuman speed/reflex and MA skills he cant possibly be compared to shang chi, cat or ironfist they would have all killed him in one punch if needed to.
 
morlun is one of the few decent opponents that spidey has but he did horrible against someone with similar abilities as him who is more ruthless who isnt a moron.. and spidey knew what happens to him when his opponent doesnt hold back.. spidey didnt win b/c he is the better fighter or ruthless he won b/c he altered his blood he mutated became more then his normal state... logan faces opponents like  morlun on a regular bases..
 
big difference is logan is trained skilled he doesnt freak out when his opponent seems to over power him or rips out an eye he doesnt go into shock he doesnt scream like a baby he doesnt pray and think this is the end........ spidey countless times has given up or freaked out when he faces someone he cant  manhandle....

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#110 Posted by castleking (24741 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
" @castleking said:
" i didnt realize spidey moved up from a few high tech bank robbers to facing a thousand ninjas.. "
Black Panther and several other people that aren't even on Spider-Man's level fought several ninjas. The Hand ninjas are cannon fodder, and dealing with them isn't a significant feat. They are no better than the Foot Soldiers from TMNT. LOL. Spidey could take them if he wanted. As a matter of fact, I remember Spidey fighting the Hand ninjas in a New Avengers comic book without any problems. That was before the Civil War, I might add. "
your saying now that spidey can now fight thousands of hand ninjas without taking hits even though his comic career states otherwise?...
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#111 Posted by Static Shock (53046 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:
" your right i guess, but spidey struggles with dodging average joe schmoe bank robbers and thugs and yes he has bn hit beaten and shot by them....   to say he can replicate logans high end feats and putting him in the exact same setting and saying he wont be hit is over estimating spidey abilities and his character and decades worth of feats that say otherwise.. if he gets hit consistently by humans how can he possibly engage and alien army with powers and abilities and tech far above what he normally faces and not get hit when he regularly gets hit.
I've seen Spidey own those Joe Schmoes on a regular, and him not being able to is a low showing for his character. Not saying he can replicate everything that Wolverine has done, but I'm sure that if you put him in the a field of Alien Centurion, he could take them, based on how he's normally written. Getting hit consistently by humans are also low showings, maybe because Spidey holds, CIS is in effect, or PIS because technically, Spidey shouldn't have problems with them, and he normally doesn't anyway. PIS is PIS, even if it happens more frequently than it should in comparison to how Spidey is normally portrayed. My thing is, if you want people to accept Wolverine's high-end showings (and discarding his low-end PIS stuff), Spidey should also be held to the same standard. You and I both know that Wolverine has tons of BS with his character, too.
 
@castleking said:
"now saying that spidey always holds back and referencing kingpin doesnt say much for spidey.  kingpin isnt a meta with above peak or superhuman speed/reflex and MA skills he cant possibly be compared to shang chi, cat or ironfist they would have all killed him in one punch if needed to.
It says a lot. While Kingpin isn't a metahuman, or an excellent martial artist like Shang Chi, Cat, or Iron Fist, it shouldn't really matter. All of them (well, except of Iron Fist, who was closer to human-level than he is now at the time he fought Spidey) are still human-level, and don't possess the same level of superhuman physical abilities that Spidey has. If anything, Spidey shouldn't have any trouble tossing around these people, despite the fact that they are martial artists or not. You can throw Punisher in there, also.
 
 @castleking said:
"morlun is one of the few decent opponents that spidey has but he did horrible against someone with similar abilities as him who is more ruthless who isnt a moron.. and spidey knew what happens to him when his opponent doesnt hold back.. spidey didnt win b/c he is the better fighter or ruthless he won b/c he altered his blood he mutated became more then his normal state... logan faces opponents like  morlun on a regular bases.. 

There has to be a dramatic effect for Spidey's battles against his rogues. That's just how it is with comic books. Wolverine doesn't always beat his enemies just as easily, right? He's lost before, has he not? Also, Spidey is emotional, and it has a psychological effect on his performance in battle. At times, he's confident, and other times, he isn't. That's just me speculating, though, based on what I've seen. 
 
@castleking said:
"big difference is logan is trained skilled he doesnt freak out when his opponent seems to over power him or rips out an eye he doesnt go into shock he doesnt scream like a baby he doesnt pray and think this is the end........ spidey countless times has given up or freaked out when he faces someone he cant  manhandle.... "
Logan has been through more bullsh!t than Spidey has, and has lived longer than he has. Being highly trained in nearly 100% of the art of battle and having a healing factor makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? Spidey isn't trained in working through pain, but at times, he has fought battles that has left him looking pretty torn up, and won.
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#112 Posted by Static Shock (53046 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:
"your saying now that spidey can now fight thousands of hand ninjas without taking hits even though his comic career states otherwise?... "
I've seen it happen when he first joined New Avengers, before the Civil War, so it's not a stretch. Besides, if people below Spidey can do it, why not Spidey? He has the abilities on his side. He may not have fought thousands of them, but he fought a good number of them without a problem. As for what his comic career states, it's pretty consistent, if you're leaving out all of the low showings, and taking into account the ones that matter.
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#113 Edited by castleking (24741 posts) - - Show Bio

parker gets hit b/c of his CIS and being completely unskilled untrained in combat. that is something parker knows and has bn told about and is afraid it will one day kill him.
 
putting him in character in a space battle with the X mens high lvl threads solo or team he has a good chance of being killed.
 
spidey hides when he realizes he is out match he runs away you remove that option and force him to fight in a war he goes down in many of logan's scenarios where logan didnt rely on his "HF to get him through but focus training attittude the ability to cope with mayhem not being overwhelmed with danger...
 
spidey could possibly have his spidey sense overloaded in certain scenarios where logan had no problem.
 
 
spidey's power allows him to be a pseudo competent fighter.. MA fighters reach near his lvl by training...thats why they are able to manhandle spidey..
 
while spidey relies on his spidey sense agility and strenght.. the MA uses telegraph/hints nerve attack  techniques and thinking several steps thats why spidey does horrible b/c his abilities allow him to simply react to rather then plan and position himself for a follow up attack.

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#114 Posted by mv (2068 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:
" parker gets hit b/c of his CIS and being completely unskilled trained in combat. that is something parker knows and has bn told about and is afraid it will one day kill him.  putting him in character in a space battle with the X mens high lvl threads solo or team he has a good chance of being killed.  spidey hides when he realizes he is out match he runs away you remove that option and force him to fight in a war he goes down in many of logan's scenarios where logan didnt rely on his "HF to get him through but focus training attittude the ability to cope with mayhem not being overwhelmed with danger...  spidey could possibly have his spidey sense overloaded in certain scenarios where logan had no problem.   spidey's power allows him to be a pseudo competent fighter.. MA fighters reach near his lvl by training...thats why they are able to manhandle spidey..  while spidey relies on his spidey sense agility and strenght.. the MA uses telegraph/hints nerve attack  techniques and thinking several steps thats why spidey does horrible b/c his abilities allow him to simply react to rather then plan and position himself for a follow up attack. "
Whatever Spidey and DD win
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#115 Posted by castleking (24741 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah learn to debate before you post..

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#116 Posted by mv (2068 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:
" yeah learn to debate before you post.. "
Learn to actually read up on character's before you reply
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#117 Edited by castleking (24741 posts) - - Show Bio

i do. thats why spidey is one of the biggest superhero loser with extremely large number of losses by extremely inferior ppl compared to others.
 
i probably know more then ur stupid ignorant @$$.... 
 
if you took ur own advice u know logan has beaten parker more often then not and manhandled various villians from spidey's rogue gallery...while spidey bn beaten by his

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#118 Edited by k4tzm4n (41766 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:

"i do. thats why spidey is one of the biggest superhero loser with extremely large number of losses by extremely inferior ppl compared to others.  i probably know more then ur stupid ignorant @$$....  "


I'd say his loss record is attributed to the combination of his long histroy in comics and CIS.  Would you really read a comic where Parker defeats the villain in the first encounter, destroying any potential for conflict/plot after?
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#119 Posted by castleking (24741 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n said:
" @castleking said:

"i do. thats why spidey is one of the biggest superhero loser with extremely large number of losses by extremely inferior ppl compared to others.  i probably know more then ur stupid ignorant @$$....  "

I'd say his loss record is attributed to the combination of his long histroy in comics and CIS.  Would you really read a comic where Parker defeats the villain in the first encounter, destroying any potential for conflict/plot after? "
well maybe if it happen once or twice maybe a third time but losing repeatedly to the character loses the need to want to pick up the comic. especially when his villian is as unskilled as parker and 
 suffers from dementia  and lower stats then him... hell it gets old watching him fight the same character and exploiting the same exact weakness and the villain never learns from their decades worth encounters. hell its worse win the villain doesnt realize his own weakness or parkers and the same do the same dance till either character lights go on and realize how they beat each other last time.
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#120 Posted by 9th Wonder (214 posts) - - Show Bio
@Rutger0 said:
" Spider-man and Logan are evenly matched it could go either way. Spider-man has speed, strength and webs. Logan has durability, fighting skills and claws.  Bucky Cap stalemates DD. DD has enhanced senses Bucky has the shield. Steven Cap beats DD because he's stronger, faster, more durable and better stamina.   Steven Cap should be able to hang in a while against Spider-man, but ultimately loose.  Bucky Cap looses 9/10 to Spider-man (he might score a surprise win).     DD shouldn't have much of a chanse against logan, he can hang in for a while trying to outsmart and outmanouvre him, but that's it. Team1 (Bucky) wins 4-5/10Team1 (Steven) wins 7/10 "
Bucky stalemates DD? 
Spider-Man and Logan are evenly matched? 
Bucky having a shield makes up for DD's enhanced senses? 
 
How much dumb sh#t can you fit into one post? Is that the game we're playing here?
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#121 Posted by k4tzm4n (41766 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:
" @k4tzm4n said:
" @castleking said:

"i do. thats why spidey is one of the biggest superhero loser with extremely large number of losses by extremely inferior ppl compared to others.  i probably know more then ur stupid ignorant @$$....  "

I'd say his loss record is attributed to the combination of his long histroy in comics and CIS.  Would you really read a comic where Parker defeats the villain in the first encounter, destroying any potential for conflict/plot after? "
well maybe if it happen once or twice maybe a third time but losing repeatedly to the character loses the need to want to pick up the comic. especially when his villian is as unskilled as parker and   suffers from dementia  and lower stats then him... hell it gets old watching him fight the same character and exploiting the same exact weakness and the villain never learns from their decades worth encounters. hell its worse win the villain doesnt realize his own weakness or parkers and the same do the same dance till either character lights go on and realize how they beat each other last time. "

Well, it's his rogues gallery after all...Many of them have a fan following, which explains their constant reappearances.  Wolverine has the same situation.  We've seen him lose to many of his foes plenty of times...Heck, we've even seen him lose to Gambit, The Punisher and The Hood.  There are plenty more that I havent mentioned.
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#122 Posted by mv (2068 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:  Who cares if  Spidey lost to wolvie's rouge gallery? If that's what determines who's better i could say Logan struggled with fighting Daken, but Spidey beat him.
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#123 Posted by k4tzm4n (41766 posts) - - Show Bio
@MTS said:
" @castleking said:  Who cares if  Spidey lost to wolvie's rouge gallery? If that's what determines who's better i could say Logan struggled with fighting Daken, but Spidey beat him. "

That doesn't really pertain either, though... 
1) Daken was literally toying with him. 
2) Spider-Man won via use of the environment.  
 
At any rate, you're just comparing who beat who again....But said that didn't matter in the first sentence ;)
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#124 Posted by mv (2068 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n said:
" @MTS said:
" @castleking said:  Who cares if  Spidey lost to wolvie's rouge gallery? If that's what determines who's better i could say Logan struggled with fighting Daken, but Spidey beat him. "
That doesn't really pertain either, though... 1) Daken was literally toying with him. 2) Spider-Man won via use of the environment.   At any rate, you're just comparing who beat who again....But said that didn't matter in the first sentence ;) "
That's what i'm saying who beat who isn't much of an argument
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#125 Posted by 9th Wonder (214 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:
" i do. thats why spidey is one of the biggest superhero loser with extremely large number of losses by extremely inferior ppl compared to others.  i probably know more then ur stupid ignorant @$$....   if you took ur own advice u know logan has beaten parker more often then not and manhandled various villians from spidey's rogue gallery...while spidey bn beaten by his "
Wolverine doesn't lose to his Rouge Gallery? C'mon with the bullsh#t Castleking.
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#126 Posted by castleking (24741 posts) - - Show Bio

@MTS 
your debating skills are horrible..the daken example is wone of the biggest PIS and counter CIS ive ever seen and to say he didnt struggle with daken is  a joke reread the issue.
 
daken went against his CIS retracted his claws and decided to merely hit him and bring him alive giving spidey the chance he needed to win and managing to toss him into a generator.
 
idiot.
 
 
what? logan loses only to the ones that clearly outmatch and he has no way of injuring them.. logan's rogue gallery are killers and murderers with stats above spidey.  i had made threads with them and spidey and had various threads shut down due to spite.
 
logan can defeat the majority of spidey enemies without plot and the few he cant parker cant take them either without pis and use of terrain.
 
saying he lost the hood isnt viable hood shot logan knocked him back echange some words logan got up almost immediately but the hood escaped. that is not a win in my book thats a famous hit in run tactic that ppl like spidey are known to pull and viners consider wins.
 
yes, gambit has managed to beat logan in danger room scenario.. but gambit also held his own and was toying with spider man when spidey interrupted one of his robberies.. that was also gambit lower his charges so not to cause noise and injure spidey...
 
the punisher incident, logan later tracked town pun in another story arc beat his @$$ trash talked pun  humiliated him told him last time  they fought punisher had protection and major luck and it would never happen again. he called him a queer and told him if he ever tried anything like that again he would kill him that he was a nobody.  parker has lost to punisher repeatedly by the way.

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#127 Posted by mv (2068 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:
" @MTS  your debating skills are horrible..the daken example is wone of the biggest PIS and counter CIS ive ever seen and to say he didnt struggle with daken is  a joke reread the issue.  daken went against his CIS retracted his claws and decided to merely hit him and bring him alive giving spidey the chance he needed to win and managing to toss him into a generator.  idiot.   what? logan loses only to the ones that clearly outmatch and he has no way of injuring them.. logan's rogue gallery are killers and murderers with stats above spidey.  i had made threads with them and spidey and had various threads shut down due to spite.  logan can defeat the majority of spidey enemies without plot and the few he cant parker cant take them either without pis and use of terrain.  saying he lost the hood isnt viable hood shot logan knocked him back echange some words logan got up almost immediately but the hood escaped. that is not a win in my book thats a famous hit in run tactic that ppl like spidey are known to pull and viners consider wins.  yes, gambit has managed to beat logan in danger room scenario.. but gambit also held his own and was toying with spider man when spidey interrupted one of his robberies.. that was also gambit lower his charges so not to cause noise and injure spidey...  the punisher incident, logan later tracked town pun in another story arc beat his @$$ trash talked pun  humiliated him told him last time  they fought punisher had protection and major luck and it would never happen again. he called him a queer and told him if he ever tried anything like that again he would kill him that he was a nobody.  parker has lost to punisher repeatedly by the way. "
That's why i said who beat who isn't much of an argument dude LOL
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#128 Posted by 9th Wonder (214 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:
" @MTS  your debating skills are horrible..the daken example is wone of the biggest PIS and counter CIS ive ever seen and to say he didnt struggle with daken is  a joke reread the issue.  daken went against his CIS retracted his claws and decided to merely hit him and bring him alive giving spidey the chance he needed to win and managing to toss him into a generator.  idiot.   what? logan loses only to the ones that clearly outmatch and he has no way of injuring them.. logan's rogue gallery are killers and murderers with stats above spidey.  i had made threads with them and spidey and had various threads shut down due to spite.  logan can defeat the majority of spidey enemies without plot and the few he cant parker cant take them either without pis and use of terrain.  saying he lost the hood isnt viable hood shot logan knocked him back echange some words logan got up almost immediately but the hood escaped. that is not a win in my book thats a famous hit in run tactic that ppl like spidey are known to pull and viners consider wins.  yes, gambit has managed to beat logan in danger room scenario.. but gambit also held his own and was toying with spider man when spidey interrupted one of his robberies.. that was also gambit lower his charges so not to cause noise and injure spidey...  the punisher incident, logan later tracked town pun in another story arc beat his @$$ trash talked pun  humiliated him told him last time  they fought punisher had protection and major luck and it would never happen again. he called him a queer and told him if he ever tried anything like that again he would kill him that he was a nobody.  parker has lost to punisher repeatedly by the way. "
LOL @ you.
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#129 Posted by castleking (24741 posts) - - Show Bio

what i am trying to show here is logan and parker stats and attributes and how each hold up against similar or same opponents.
 
it seems to me that enemies that parker has trouble due to possessing the same exact stats logan seem to be able to hit and counter with less trouble then spidey has bn shown capable of..
 
spidey struggles with vermin due to similar stats logan doesnt and pawns him without injury or healing factor.
spidey struggles with puma logan does not without injury or healing factor
spidey gets beaten by a prime sentinel with help by marrow due to their physical upgrades and onboard counter measures to attacks logan solo's the prime sentinels and with a team without injury or hf..
 
my point is that spidey skills reaction time are nice but without actual skill and combat knowledge he is useless and struggles with ppl logan doesnt. now putting them both in a face off logan should logically take the majority seeing as logan has already manhandled and beaten spidey in various on panel depiction in fights that spidey escalated and attacking logan without warning.

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#130 Posted by mv (2068 posts) - - Show Bio

Spidey has enough skill to take down wolverine that's for sure, i don't know about puma and those guys ...i think he beat puma before actually got him arrested or something like that. Anywhoo i think spidey's agility speed and strength should be enough to at least KO wolverine for a bit.

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#131 Posted by Dark_Slayor (225 posts) - - Show Bio

This seems like an endless argument, so how about this? 
 
CIS on: Cap and Logan 
CIS off: DD and Spidey 

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#132 Posted by mv (2068 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark_Slayor said:
" This seems like an endless argument, so how about this?  CIS on: Cap and Logan CIS off: DD and Spidey  "
LOL
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#133 Posted by vance_astro (90093 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:
" what i am trying to show here is logan and parker stats and attributes and how each hold up against similar or same opponents.  it seems to me that enemies that parker has trouble due to possessing the same exact stats logan seem to be able to hit and counter with less trouble then spidey has bn shown capable of..  spidey struggles with vermin due to similar stats logan doesnt and pawns him without injury or healing factor. spidey struggles with puma logan does not without injury or healing factor spidey gets beaten by a prime sentinel with help by marrow due to their physical upgrades and onboard counter measures to attacks logan solo's the prime sentinels and with a team without injury or hf..  my point is that spidey skills reaction time are nice but without actual skill and combat knowledge he is useless and struggles with ppl logan doesnt. now putting them both in a face off logan should logically take the majority seeing as logan has already manhandled and beaten spidey in various on panel depiction in fights that spidey escalated and attacking logan without warning. "
What you're doing is still using ABC logic.Wolverine has different advantages over his Rouge Gallery than Spider-Man does.Spidey relies on physical ability while Wolverine is one of the best fighters in Marvel.Spider-Man has trouble with his rouge gallery,yes...but so does Wolverine.Don't even try and act like Sabretooth is an easy fight for Wolverine or ever was.Same with Lady Deathstrike,Omega Red,Cyber,Mister X,even Deadpool.Just in case you still think this argument you're making is valid.I'm going to use Daredevil as an example again.He has beaten alot of people in Spider-Man's Rouge Gallery with less problem than Spider-Man...some of them 3 times or over.He's physically below both Spider-Man and Wolverine yet he still pulls it off? Why? Because Spider-Man is simply trying to outsmart his opponents in the heat of battle and he's not very skilled where as Daredevil and Wolverine are alot more skilled than Spider-Man's Rouges they only have to make up for the physical ability and means to actually cause damage to them. 
 
You also have to realize that Spider-Man has people in his Rouge Gallery specifically made to go against his powers.It's the same as any character.So when a character is created with all the right tools to beat one person it's obvious that at some point he won't have the abilities to take another. 
 
Logan cannot beat Spider-Man.First of all stop acting like Wolverine beat Spider-Man in all of their encounters.Second of all stop acting like Spider-Man isn't far stronger than Wolverine.Not only is Spider-Man faster than Wolverine he has the long range advantage with webbing and Spider-Man has tied up and held down people alot stronger than Wolverine.Logan manhandling anyone who at least class 10 is bullsh#t and you know it.
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#134 Posted by WeaponX510 (1096 posts) - - Show Bio
@MTS said:
" Spidey has enough skill to take down wolverine that's for sure, i don't know about puma and those guys ...i think he beat puma before actually got him arrested or something like that. Anywhoo i think spidey's agility speed and strength should be enough to at least KO wolverine for a bit. "
wolverine whooped spidey so many times the most ive ever seen spidey do to him is web his claws to his head.....and he broke out....before anybody says somthing else just know spidey cant beat wolverine
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#135 Posted by vance_astro (90093 posts) - - Show Bio
@WeaponX510 said:
" @MTS said:
" Spidey has enough skill to take down wolverine that's for sure, i don't know about puma and those guys ...i think he beat puma before actually got him arrested or something like that. Anywhoo i think spidey's agility speed and strength should be enough to at least KO wolverine for a bit. "
wolverine whooped spidey so many times the most ive ever seen spidey do to him is web his claws to his head.....and he broke out....before anybody says somthing else just know spidey cant beat wolverine "
I've seen Spider-Man do way less than that to people less skilled and less physically dominant than Wolverine.It's the writing that saves them not the character.
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#136 Posted by Matezoide2 (16064 posts) - - Show Bio
@WeaponX510 said:
" @MTS said:
" Spidey has enough skill to take down wolverine that's for sure, i don't know about puma and those guys ...i think he beat puma before actually got him arrested or something like that. Anywhoo i think spidey's agility speed and strength should be enough to at least KO wolverine for a bit. "
wolverine whooped spidey so many times the most ive ever seen spidey do to him is web his claws to his head.....and he broke out....before anybody says somthing else just know spidey cant beat wolverine "
yeah,Wolvie break free
 
when the web dissoved (1 hour)
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#137 Posted by kajitatsu (534 posts) - - Show Bio
@WeaponX510: Something everybody seems to ignore, Spider-man never tries to kill anybody. He is always pulling punches and actually trying to take it easy. Yet he can still knock people around without effort, whenever Logan's around an enemy he tries to kill them. There are very few instances Pete's actually killed, he's a great guy.
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#138 Posted by Rothschild (1305 posts) - - Show Bio

^^ True... Spidey is like the Jackie Chan of MU... The way he fights that is

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#139 Posted by vance_astro (90093 posts) - - Show Bio
@kajitatsu said:
" @WeaponX510: Something everybody seems to ignore, Spider-man never tries to kill anybody. He is always pulling punches and actually trying to take it easy. Yet he can still knock people around without effort, whenever Logan's around an enemy he tries to kill them. There are very few instances Pete's actually killed, he's a great guy. "
This isn't entirely true.Wolverine doesn't hold back but he doesn't try to kill either.If he did he would have killed a crapload of major characters.
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#140 Posted by castleking (24741 posts) - - Show Bio

logan has gone completely out of character and refuse to kill a major player in marvel even when he has it coming....at times for that sole reason the character manages to BFR himself or logan while logan is being indecisive and out of character.

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#141 Posted by The Mjolnir Wielder (8467 posts) - - Show Bio
@Morpheus_ said:
"Yep. His spider sense is clearly overrated. To the point that it pin points the person he's looking for, but has never even seen before, in a crowed subway. 

 

 
 

 
And there is a point between understanding what is written for laughs, and what isn't. You can't. "

What issue was this scan from?
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#142 Posted by Static Shock (53046 posts) - - Show Bio
@castleking said:
" parker gets hit b/c of his CIS and being completely unskilled untrained in combat. that is something parker knows and has bn told about and is afraid it will one day kill him.
Even still, human level opponents shouldn't even be able to contend with him, keep up with him, or hurt him.
 
@castleking said:
"putting him in character in a space battle with the X mens high lvl threads solo or team he has a good chance of being killed.
I don't think Alien Centurion are too much for Spidey, though.
 
@castleking said:
"spidey hides when he realizes he is out match he runs away you remove that option and force him to fight in a war he goes down in many of logan's scenarios where logan didnt rely on his "HF to get him through but focus training attittude the ability to cope with mayhem not being overwhelmed with danger...

Like I said, Wolverine has been through more bullsh!t in his life. 
 
@castleking said:
"spidey could possibly have his spidey sense overloaded in certain scenarios where logan had no problem.
I've never seen this happen. When has Spidey's Spider-Sense been overloaded?
 
@castleking said:
"i probably know more then ur stupid ignorant @$$.... "

Don't let emotions get the best of you. 
 
@castleking said:
" pspidey's power allows him to be a pseudo competent fighter.. MA fighters reach near his lvl by training...thats why they are able to manhandle spidey.. 
Again, human level opponents shouldn't be able to. Even if Spidey is a 'pseudo competent fighter', he has a habit of holding back when he should be. 
 
@castleking said:
"while spidey relies on his spidey sense agility and strenght.. the MA uses telegraph/hints nerve attack  techniques and thinking several steps thats why spidey does horrible b/c his abilities allow him to simply react to rather then plan and position himself for a follow up attack. "

Makes sense, but my point stands.
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#143 Posted by Static Shock (53046 posts) - - Show Bio
@Morpheus_ said:
" Yep. His spider sense is clearly overrated. To the point that it pin points the person he's looking for, but has never even seen before, in a crowed subway. 

 

No Caption Provided

 
And there is a point between understanding what is written for laughs, and what isn't. You can't. "
I find this impressive, but you and I both know that Spidey can't do this anymore. LOL.
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#144 Posted by xan84 (4232 posts) - - Show Bio
@MTS said:
"Spidey has enough skill to take down wolverine that's for sure, i don't know about puma and those guys ...i think he beat puma before actually got him arrested or something like that. Anywhoo i think spidey's agility speed and strength should be enough to at least KO wolverine for a bit. "

If WW Hulk was unable to do it afther he hit Logan in the face over and over again what makes you think Spiderman can ? WW Hulk can hold 2 tectonic plates togeder, spiderman has problems lifting a car :P. I gues this whas one of Logans better showings but still ...
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#145 Posted by sevennames27 (1589 posts) - - Show Bio
@Xan said:
"@MTS said:
"Spidey has enough skill to take down wolverine that's for sure, i don't know about puma and those guys ...i think he beat puma before actually got him arrested or something like that. Anywhoo i think spidey's agility speed and strength should be enough to at least KO wolverine for a bit. "
If WW Hulk was unable to do it afther he hit Logan in the face over and over again what makes you think Spiderman can ? WW Hulk can hold 2 tectonic plates togeder, spiderman has problems lifting a car :P. I gues this whas one of Logans better showings but still ... "

That fight was total PIS.........
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#146 Edited by kajitatsu (534 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:

" @kajitatsu said:

" @WeaponX510: Something everybody seems to ignore, Spider-man never tries to kill anybody. He is always pulling punches and actually trying to take it easy. Yet he can still knock people around without effort, whenever Logan's around an enemy he tries to kill them. There are very few instances Pete's actually killed, he's a great guy. "
This isn't entirely true.Wolverine doesn't hold back but he doesn't try to kill either.If he did he would have killed a crapload of major characters. "
Good point but I think Wolverine puts more [physical] effort in because he tries to kill more, whereas Spidey doesn't really. It's one of the reasons Spider-man looks for creative solutions and doesn't always use brute strength.
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#147 Posted by sevennames27 (1589 posts) - - Show Bio

Why I hate Wolverine: 
He is to powerful for what he is and, 

 
 

 
 
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#148 Posted by xan84 (4232 posts) - - Show Bio
@sevennames27 said:
"@Xan said:
"@MTS said:
"Spidey has enough skill to take down wolverine that's for sure, i don't know about puma and those guys ...i think he beat puma before actually got him arrested or something like that. Anywhoo i think spidey's agility speed and strength should be enough to at least KO wolverine for a bit. "
If WW Hulk was unable to do it afther he hit Logan in the face over and over again what makes you think Spiderman can ? WW Hulk can hold 2 tectonic plates togeder, spiderman has problems lifting a car :P. I gues this whas one of Logans better showings but still ... "
That fight was total PIS......... "

Why ? Its not the first time Logan fights gods, demons and the likes. Do try to find something better then PIS.
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#149 Posted by sevennames27 (1589 posts) - - Show Bio
@Xan said:
"@sevennames27 said:
"@Xan said:
"@MTS said:
"Spidey has enough skill to take down wolverine that's for sure, i don't know about puma and those guys ...i think he beat puma before actually got him arrested or something like that. Anywhoo i think spidey's agility speed and strength should be enough to at least KO wolverine for a bit. "
If WW Hulk was unable to do it afther he hit Logan in the face over and over again what makes you think Spiderman can ? WW Hulk can hold 2 tectonic plates togeder, spiderman has problems lifting a car :P. I gues this whas one of Logans better showings but still ... "
That fight was total PIS......... "
Why ? Its not the first time Logan fights gods, demons and the likes. Do try to find something better then PIS. "

Wolverine has become nothing but walking PIS, I though he was cool in the beginning, but now I have trouble reading comics with him in.

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#150 Edited by Morpheus_ (34796 posts) - - Show Bio

 
 
@The Mjolnir Wielder said:

" @Morpheus_ said:

"Yep. His spider sense is clearly overrated. To the point that it pin points the person he's looking for, but has never even seen before, in a crowed subway. 

 

No Caption Provided

 
And there is a point between understanding what is written for laughs, and what isn't. You can't. "
What issue was this scan from? "

 Amazing Spider-man # 540.
 

@Static Shock

said:

" @Morpheus_ said:

" Yep. His spider sense is clearly overrated. To the point that it pin points the person he's looking for, but has never even seen before, in a crowed subway. 

 

No Caption Provided

 
And there is a point between understanding what is written for laughs, and what isn't. You can't. "
I find this impressive, but you and I both know that Spidey can't do this anymore. LOL. "
It is as viable, as Peter getting knocked down by a fun character. ("evidence" used previously to prove why Wolverine is superior)
 
 
Spider-man has used his spider sense to locate items/people pre-the Other anyway. So, what you stated may be true because he cannot  use his spider sense at that level anymore, but he surely can use it very effectively, even now. And surely more effectively than people here tried to misleadingly present it.