Witch King vs Darth Sidious

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izbighulk

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#1  Edited By izbighulk
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Witch King -vs-Darth Sidious

who wins ? place of battle Warworld

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Montaq

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#2  Edited By Montaq

Sidious either puts him in a worm hole or cuts him into hundreds of pieces.

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Doctordark

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#3  Edited By Doctordark

Witch King wins but Darth Sidious will give him a good fight

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ReVamp

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#4  Edited By ReVamp

Witch King feats?

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JediXMan

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#5  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator

And what can Witch King do?

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Doctordark

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#6  Edited By Doctordark

he matched if not even surpassed gandalf in power

destroyed the gates of minas tirith with his magic

he was the reason for the fall of the kingdoms ArnorArthedain, Rhudaur, and Cardolan

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m0ntyb0y

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#7  Edited By m0ntyb0y

Witch King "cannot be killed by a man" hehe...thus he lost to a Hobbit and a woman

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Chaos Prime

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#8  Edited By Chaos Prime

@Doctordark said:

he matched if not even surpassed gandalf in power

destroyed the gates of minas tirith with his magic

but on more than one occasion was made to flee the seen of battle..

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Doctordark

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#9  Edited By Doctordark
Loading Video...
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izbighulk

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#10  Edited By izbighulk

witch king is a master in black arts,has foresight and he is the strongest of the nazguls

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Phylos

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#11  Edited By Phylos

what abilities has the Witch King displayed in the books? izbighulk mentioned black arts, but thats not a real solid answer, what has he done with it?

im also not doubting/smashing the character, just want to know.

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Jedi Wolverine

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#12  Edited By Jedi Wolverine

Darth Sidious takes this, the Witch King is powerful and perhaps a hit or two from his weapons might make Sidious take stock of the situation but the Witch King isnt going to get 1 hit in before Sidious cuts his head from his shoulders.

Sidious has immense speed/lightsaber skill and agility and with precog i cant see the Witch King getting anywhere against him.

Sure the Witch King has his powers and magic but if Sidious unleashes lighning from the get go the Witch King is on the back foot straight away.Thats not even bringing into play his other force Powers.

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jeanroygrant

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#13  Edited By jeanroygrant

@m0ntyb0y said:

Witch King "cannot be killed by a man" hehe...thus he lost to a Hobbit and a woman

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Owie

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#14  Edited By Owie
@Doctordark said:

he matched if not even surpassed gandalf in power

destroyed the gates of minas tirith with his magic

he was the reason for the fall of the kingdoms ArnorArthedain, Rhudaur, and Cardolan

In what sense did he match Gandalf in power?  Gandalf is a Maiar, the WItch King is just the servant of Sauron, another Maiar.  He was very dangerous in reputation, but didn't have a lot of specific feats.
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m0ntyb0y

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#15  Edited By m0ntyb0y

Well, there's always the chance Sidious has an extra special secret

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izbighulk

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#16  Edited By izbighulk

@Jedi Wolverine said:

Darth Sidious takes this, the Witch King is powerful and perhaps a hit or two from his weapons might make Sidious take stock of the situation but the Witch King isnt going to get 1 hit in before Sidious cuts his head from his shoulders.

Sidious has immense speed/lightsaber skill and agility and with precog i cant see the Witch King getting anywhere against him.

Sure the Witch King has his powers and magic but if Sidious unleashes lighning from the get go the Witch King is on the back foot straight away.Thats not even bringing into play his other force Powers.

and what exactly will he cut air maybe even to heart him he needs and elven blade lightsaber is useless here

Witch king can produce lightning also

@Owie said:

@Doctordark said:

he matched if not even surpassed gandalf in power

destroyed the gates of minas tirith with his magic

he was the reason for the fall of the kingdoms ArnorArthedain, Rhudaur, and Cardolan

In what sense did he match Gandalf in power? Gandalf is a Maiar, the WItch King is just the servant of Sauron, another Maiar. He was very dangerous in reputation, but didn't have a lot of specific feats.

yeah but you forget that sauron is far above gandalf,sauron served morgoth,yes you are right about not having any feats but from the movie you can see how gandalf took the power from saurman breaking his staff the same thing happened to gandalf when he met witch king

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ReVamp

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#17  Edited By ReVamp

I thought this was the Litch King for a second...

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#18  Edited By SpidermanWins

The Witch King is a powerful sorcerer and, though he can even equal Gandalf's strength or overcome it, Darth Sidious' sheer force ability could dominate his magic. The Witch King was killed by Ewoyn who is a good warrior, but seriously? Darth Sidious' lightsaber would cut through the Witch King's weapons and he would dominate tWK in combat even without it. He is just superior in skill.

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Doctordark

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#19  Edited By Doctordark

@SpidermanWins said:

The Witch King is a powerful sorcerer and, though he can even equal Gandalf's strength or overcome it, Darth Sidious' sheer force ability could dominate his magic. The Witch King was killed by Ewoyn who is a good warrior, but seriously? Darth Sidious' lightsaber would cut through the Witch King's weapons and he would dominate tWK in combat even without it. He is just superior in skill.

yeah but will at all be enough to give him a chance of winning

but what if witch king does the same thing what he did whit gandalf staff when he destroyed it and use it on palpatins lightsaber

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SpidermanWins

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#20  Edited By SpidermanWins

@Doctordark said:

@SpidermanWins said:

The Witch King is a powerful sorcerer and, though he can even equal Gandalf's strength or overcome it, Darth Sidious' sheer force ability could dominate his magic. The Witch King was killed by Ewoyn who is a good warrior, but seriously? Darth Sidious' lightsaber would cut through the Witch King's weapons and he would dominate tWK in combat even without it. He is just superior in skill.

yeah but will at all be enough to give him a chance of winning

but what if witch king does the same thing what he did whit gandalf staff when he destroyed it and use it on palpatins lightsaber

Somehow I doubt he can do that. A lightsaber=way harder to break than a staff and he has no feats to show he is capable of such a achievement.

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Doctordark

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#21  Edited By Doctordark

it's not an ordinary staff and i think he could pull it off

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Owie

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#22  Edited By Owie
@izbighulk said:


@Owie said:

@Doctordark said:

he matched if not even surpassed gandalf in power

destroyed the gates of minas tirith with his magic

he was the reason for the fall of the kingdoms ArnorArthedain, Rhudaur, and Cardolan

In what sense did he match Gandalf in power? Gandalf is a Maiar, the WItch King is just the servant of Sauron, another Maiar. He was very dangerous in reputation, but didn't have a lot of specific feats.

yeah but you forget that sauron is far above gandalf,sauron served morgoth,yes you are right about not having any feats but from the movie you can see how gandalf took the power from saurman breaking his staff the same thing happened to gandalf when he met witch king

There certainly are different levels of Maiar, that's true, and does explain the difference between Sauron and Galdalf.  When the Witch King broke Gandalf's staff in the movie, that was silly, and didn't happen in the book.  In the book, he only lost his staff to the Balrog, which is much less of a mismatch (since Balrogs are yet another kind of Maiar).
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Freefa11

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#23  Edited By Freefa11

LotR characters like Gandalf, Sauron, and the Witch King are not very well suited to battle forum rules. We know they are powerful, but a lot of that power is hinted at, not explicitly shown. There also isn't much of anything on middle earth that compares in scale to some of the things in Star Wars (could Gandalf take out a Stardestroyer? I don't think there's anything he ever shown that approaches that level of overt force. On the other hand, Sidious can for sure). Basically, I think there's too much guesswork for these guys to reliably put them up against other very powerful characters. I believe I once heard about an old article in Dungeon Magazine (probably from the late 70's or early 80's), that basically claimed nearly everything Gandalf did in the books could have been accomplished by a 6th or 7th level wizard (aside from Gandalf actually being able to use a sword proficiently in melee).

If we're restricted to G-canon Sidious, and we can use the movies as well as the books for LotR, then it might be more even. Plus, the Witch King is a spirit that can't really die under normal circumstances, which should help.

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Sci_Fi_Rulez

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#24  Edited By Sci_Fi_Rulez

Sidious takes this.He haves the force and sith magic that can wipe him out quick and clean..

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kingkronos

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#25  Edited By kingkronos

Witch king solo's easily. His mere presence corrupts people and ofcourse his sword and wraith. The witch king is also immune to all magic and is indestructible. He even pwned Gandalf in the movie, but it was in the extended addition.......If somebody wants the video I'll post it.

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Strider1992

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#26  Edited By Strider1992

Well the Witch King can't be killed by a man so......well I guess the end of this fight is pretty clear.

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Baldy

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#27  Edited By Baldy

@kingkronos said:

Witch king solo's easily. His mere presence corrupts people and ofcourse his sword and wraith. The witch king is also immune to all magic and is indestructible. He even pwned Gandalf in the movie, but it was in the extended addition.......If somebody wants the video I'll post it.

Yeah, that's why he was owned by a woman and hobbit. Both less than stellar warriors and not very powerful. Saying he pwned Gandalf and thus should win against Sidious is like saying that Captain America can beat Red Skull and thus obviously would win against Superman.

I'm guessing that he got ripped apart in the end pretty much ends any question of whether he's invincible or not. Even if Sidious' gender was truly a problem he could just force storm the punk into a black hole.

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ShootingNova

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#28  Edited By ShootingNova

From given feats? Sidious annihilates him in a fraction of a second.

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ShootingNova

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#29  Edited By ShootingNova

@kingkronos said:

Witch king solo's easily. His mere presence corrupts people and ofcourse his sword and wraith. The witch king is also immune to all magic and is indestructible. He even pwned Gandalf in the movie, but it was in the extended addition.......If somebody wants the video I'll post it.

The book is just as canon, and more original. The scene was deleted, while the book has it that Gandalf and him stalemated. From given feats, Sidious utterly destroys him.

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hermankeson

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#30  Edited By hermankeson

How Witch King beat Gandalf but still got owned by a woman and a hobbit was ridiculous, but if he can't be beaten by a man then he should win against Sidious

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ShootingNova

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#31  Edited By ShootingNova

@hermankeson said:

How Witch King beat Gandalf but still got owned by a woman and a hobbit was ridiculous, but if he can't be beaten by a man then he should win against Sidious

Sidious throws him into a wormhole. The deleted scene in the movie is just rubbish, he stalemated in the novels, which is impressive already.

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steelhound56

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#32  Edited By steelhound56

Sidious is far faster if we're going by movies, and would likely just blitz the Witch King.

If we go by the books, EU Sidious destroys him. The Witch King is hinted at being pretty powerful, but never has any actual feats aside from stalemating Gandalf. Sidious has tons of feats that show him displaying overt force, and other, more insidious Sith Magic and life force draining powers.

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nefarious

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#33  Edited By nefarious

Darth Sidious.

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#34  Edited By Phylos

I don't think anyone has elaborated on the magic the Witch King has utilized. Unless the whole 'corruption' & 'fear" thing is the actual proof? Because Sidious can mirror that, if not, trump it.

But egh, I'd like to vote for him but Sidious has more feats.

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ShootingNova

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#35  Edited By ShootingNova

@Phylos said:

I don't think anyone has elaborated on the magic the Witch King has utilized. Unless the whole 'corruption' & 'fear" thing is the actual proof? Because Sidious can mirror that, if not, trump it.

But egh, I'd like to vote for him but Sidious has more feats.

Sidious corrupted entire worlds.... Sidious ruled a galactic empire, not an army that covered less than half a world.

His feats are far superior anyways.

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JediWaffles

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#36  Edited By JediWaffles

If you take into consideration that the Witch King cannot be killed by man, and that statement defines a power of his, then Sidious can't really kill him.

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ShootingNova

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#37  Edited By ShootingNova

@JediWaffles: He can throw him into a wormhole.

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JediWaffles

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#38  Edited By JediWaffles

@ShootingNova: Yeah, but BFR's gay and i don't generally consider it a win-con. Lol.

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ShootingNova

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#39  Edited By ShootingNova

@JediWaffles said:

@ShootingNova: Yeah, but BFR's gay and i don't generally consider it a win-con. Lol.

His force-storms can be minute.

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JediWaffles

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#40  Edited By JediWaffles

@ShootingNova: Yeah, but he still can't technically kill him.

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ShootingNova

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#41  Edited By ShootingNova

@JediWaffles: Technically, Witch-King of Angmar has been killed by a race of man. Technically, it throws him into a place that rips through time-space continuum so he never existed, meaning he dies.

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JediWaffles

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#42  Edited By JediWaffles

@ShootingNova: Well it never said he could be killed by the race of man, just man. It can be assumed it means a male human. So it still stands that he can't be killed by Sidious. ;)

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ShootingNova

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#43  Edited By ShootingNova

@JediWaffles: TBH, that could be exaggerated. In any sense, Sidious can send him through a wormhole that rips through time-space continuum and bye-bye Witch-King of Angmar.

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JediWaffles

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#44  Edited By JediWaffles

@ShootingNova: Eh well, arguing a technicality can only get you so far. I'm not really arguing for the witch-king's sake here you know haha.

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ShootingNova

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#45  Edited By ShootingNova

@JediWaffles: LOL. TBH, technically, Sidious can kill him, with the Force, not by his own blade or his own body.

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xan84

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#46  Edited By xan84

@JediWaffles What they say is more or less irrelevant... What durability feats does he have? What if this was PR Beyonder... That guy was human male so he can't kill him to? I can find other male human reality warpers to ... Hell just dump some fire on him and see him run like a chiken :P

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JediWaffles

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#47  Edited By JediWaffles

@ShootingNova: But the usage of the Force still stemmed from Sidious himself. The actual killing is done by the Force, but the killer is still Sidious, so my "point" still stands. Your argument is like like saying any male human could have killed the Witch-King with a sword, because it was the sword that killed him rather than the wielder.

@xan84 said:

@JediWaffles What they say is more or less irrelevant... What durability feats does he have? What if this was PR Beyonder... That guy was human male so he can't kill him to? I can find other male human reality warpers to ... Hell just dump some fire on him and see him run like a chiken :P

The beyonder wasn't a human male, but he was still a male, so i guess it still stands? Lol honestly the witch-king loses instantly if you disregard his semi-invulernability, but for the sake of argument, i'm trying to debate this point, which is the only chance he has.

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ShootingNova

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#48  Edited By ShootingNova

@JediWaffles: Honestly, I don't see the Witch-King having an answer to the Force given that he has no knowledge or prior encounters with it.

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#49  Edited By JediWaffles

@ShootingNova: Of course not, the Force absolutely destroys him. If it was wielded by a woman.

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#50  Edited By ShootingNova

Wow. I still don't see how he survives Sidious' force storm. It warps him through time/space, so he never existed. He's gone.