WIS vs PIS vs CIS who's got it worse? Marvel Edition

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Supermanwithatan01

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As I browse through Forums looking for Silver Surfer battle threads I see a constant. I've seen people argue that Silver Surfer's travel speed AND battle speed are/can be faster than light. He nearly (like Thor) ALWAYS holds back and is somewhat a pacifist. A Bloodlusted Surfer should be able to Handle just about anyone when depictions of him saying he's nighindestructable, one of the most durable characters ever, his Powerset can control molecules and even create time travel or dimension travel, vastly powerful planet busting attacks with little effort IF he was Bloodlusted, one of the fastest speed blitzers in all of Marvel, Cosmic awareness, the fact he can operate on several separate planes of existence, under-rated telekinesis and telepathy; amounting up to an arsenal that consists of some of the most powerful offensive moves or powers that a character could ever have, while also being incredible power defensively with his incredible reflexes and ftl battle speeds not even including intangibility. I'm not sure how it is possible for him to lose a battle UNLESS it's major PIS/WIS and or CIS. My vote says the Silver Surfer Post Annihilation but obviously not the depowered being he is now is the most abused power set character in marvel.

Soo do you agree? Who do you think is worse in a battle that jobbers? who else is HIGHLY under-rated to this degree?

My other possible contenders:

Ghost Rider, Thor, Captain Atom, Galactus (EVERY DAY haha), etc...

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tron_bonne

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#2  Edited By tron_bonne

WIS for current comics. 
PIS for classic comics that are not Silver Surfer titles. 
CIS for all Silver Surfer titles 
 
The same can be said about Dr. Strange but back in the Classic Era. Strange being more powerful than Surfer wasn't PIS/CIS nor WIS. It was just Marvel's golden rule.

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JediXMan

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#3  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator
@tron_bonne
 
Losing to Classic Strange wasn't even a bad showing. Lasting more than a panel against him was typically a good feat. The man was just that powerful back then.
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pooty

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#4  Edited By pooty

@Supermanwithatan01: @tron_bonne: All comics have a hierarchy. someone is written to be more powerful than the next person. Take Silver Surfer. He has lost to thanos 6/7 times. Surfer is faster, intangible, astral plane etc. So what? Thanos was created to be his superior by the writers so they portray it that way. Comics are about 22 pages long. they cant spend the whole comic with SS trying every power he has. Plus all they would do is give Thanos the ability to defeat any power SS shows. It would either make the comic too long or way too short. Or superman vs Darkseid. all i hear is speedblitz. a million hits in one second. No. They would just make Darkseid block every hit. It would cause already insanely powerful people to be even more powerful. The writers know a characters power set just as well as we do. They just don't have the space in a book to write it all out like we do. I don't understand how fans can think they know who should win better than the creators.

Does PIS/CIS/WIS exist. Oh hell yeah. but i think it is the exception not the norm

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Lance Bastro

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#5  Edited By Lance Bastro
@pooty said: 

I don't understand how fans can think they know who should win better than the creators.

its because of preference and wishful thinking. but youre right, neither the fans and the new generation writers do not know who should win over the creators, but you have to understand one thing. new generation writers are one of two things. one) a writer for hire with no background of comics or two) another fan. 
 
when people debate on this forum about who wins, know this, its fiction. there are no liars and there are no people who are telling the truth. it's just one opinion vs the other basically. no winners; no losers. the only thing that is fact, however is what you just said. it is the imagination of the creator and his ability to make his imagination real through illustrations. illustrations that we see as comics. when it comes to marvel, stan lee created the majority of these characters that we know today, but the writers nowadays, are allowed to use their imagination and opinions to change it. however, that doesn't change the history of the creator and it certainly doesn't change the origin of that character.
 
it makes me laugh just how these youngsters like to debate just to be right when in fact there is no right and wrong when debating about a character. all it is just opinion. one preference vs the other. when you take comics too literally and too serious, you are bound to be the victim of a hurt soul when new writers decide to change your preferenced character. how many people do you see complain about different arcs and specifically a power level of a certain character or how the events and character personality start to be inconsistent with one another. well. they can complain all they want, it's not the writers fault. it's the readers for taking STORY TELLING too literal.  comics are just a story, and just like life- stories change.
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dernman

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#6  Edited By dernman

I don't think its youngster. Debating characters has been going on for a long time. 
I don't see a problem with wanting consistency in characters abilities unless there something in story that effected the change and not just a writers whim. 
Doing it on a writers whim is just bad story telling in my opinion.

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Supermanwithatan01

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This is about Characters with certain powersets and how writers are ignorant of the applications of them for the sake of the story or their characters like Hulk lifting Mjolnir or Thanos defeating an angry Silver Surfer. Its not about people being upset about who lost a fight its about a character losing a fight. I can understand Character Induced Stupidity it can happen. But WIS should be unacceptable, PIS is just annoying to EVERYONE. If they would give explanations like Doom siphoning powers is not PIS given his powerset and specific characterization. It's perfectly plausable that he could/has done those things. Stealing power from the PR Beyonder was CIS (acceptable to a degree) but also made sense to a point.

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pooty

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#8  Edited By pooty

@Supermanwithatan01: Hulk lifting Mjolnir was in another reality wasn't it? I hope it was or that was WIS because we know the rules for lifting Mjolnir. But Thanos beating Surfer is not a one time PIS. That has been going on for years. Surfer has had many more showings. Giving him the chance to show more powers. But the writers know what SS can do. And they still choose to have him lose time after time. Even without showing all of Thanos powerset they are showing you that in the end THanos is superior. I know what your saying. Your saying Thanos has not been shown to have counters for all that the surfer can do. If they had time and space in a comic Thanos would be given powers to deal with Surfer in every way. But they don't have the time or space so they are hoping that we can tell by the outcome that Thanos is meant to be superior.

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Supermanwithatan01

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@pooty said:

@Supermanwithatan01: Hulk lifting Mjolnir was in another reality wasn't it? I hope it was or that was WIS because we know the rules for lifting Mjolnir. But Thanos beating Surfer is not a one time PIS. That has been going on for years. Surfer has had many more showings. Giving him the chance to show more powers. But the writers know what SS can do. And they still choose to have him lose time after time. Even without showing all of Thanos powerset they are showing you that in the end THanos is superior. I know what your saying. Your saying Thanos has not been shown to have counters for all that the surfer can do. If they had time and space in a comic Thanos would be given powers to deal with Surfer in every way. But they don't have the time or space so they are hoping that we can tell by the outcome that Thanos is meant to be superior.

Your aren't understanding. I'm talking about right here on comicvine battles, fact is when it's logic and the characters ACTUAL powerset then Surfer should defeat Thanos 10/10 when Thanos doesnt have prep. Its like I trained US Delta Force soldier with all his weapons losing to a NYPD cop with handcuffs and a gun. One person that has a vast amount of potential to win jobbers to a character that we "want" to win for the sake of saying so. Character wise I accept and understand the losses. Logically its CALLED PIS when a character wins on a battle thread when he has no defense or offensive feats to destroy the other character before he/she can defeat him/her.

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pooty

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#10  Edited By pooty

@Supermanwithatan01: No i understand. You're saying Thanos has never shown to have the speed of Surfer or hit an intangible opponent or defeat Surfer in the astral plane. So why doesn't SS do those things when he fights Thanos? You're saying: Just because Thanos beats SS in the books doesn't mean Thanos should win in a battle thread. Is that what you're saying?

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Supermanwithatan01

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@pooty said:

@Supermanwithatan01: No i understand. You're saying Thanos has never shown to have the speed of Surfer or hit an intangible opponent or defeat Surfer in the astral plane. So why doesn't SS do those things when he fights Thanos? You're saying: Just because Thanos beats SS in the books doesn't mean Thanos should win in a battle thread. Is that what you're saying?

Alright.. You absolutely know what I'm saying haha my bad.

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ReVamp

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#12  Edited By ReVamp

Spiderman has got it for CIS.

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Fetts

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#13  Edited By Fetts

Excuse me for the extremely unnerdy question but what is WIS?

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Supermanwithatan01

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@Fetts said:

Excuse me for the extremely unnerdy question but what is WIS?

Writer Induced Stupidity - Ignorant writers ignoring a character's actual powerset, history, characteristics etc. Typically WIS causes PIS and CIS (plot and character induced stupidity).