vs
Rules:
- In character.
- Standard gear for Bucky.
- No stark tech for Shang-Chi.
- Win by death/KO/incap.
- Current versions.
- Fight takes place here:
Winter Soldier vs Shang-chi
@slimj87d said:
@bump1010: shang shi dodging bullets didn't stop him from being hit by many other Street levelers, he's not a speedster like quicksilver. I don't think you can assume that that one time he dodged a bullet flying in mid air he can move faster than a bullet.
I never said it did. I wasn't assuming he was always moving faster than a bullet Bucky has just never shot anyone as fast as shang chi before. As for speed feats here:
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Bucky blocking bullets with his arm is cool, but I think shang chi using the little area on his wrist is better. He can also use the wrist blocker on his wrist to block bullets for other people. He can also do this:
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He has shown fairly consistently he can bullet time. I don't think he needs to be a speedster. I'm not arguing that Bucky will get blitzed but like how deathstroke beat batman due to being faster shang can do the same to Bucky more or less. Batman wasn't blitzed but Slade said his physicals gave him an edge. Its a similar idea here.
@slimj87d said:
Bucky has blocked bullets fired at him with his metal arm that were fired by nick Fury and a firing squad behind his back when he was trying to kill the Iron nail. The Iron nail also beat jet black and beat Steve (Steve came back later and got him) and Bucky knocked him back and got a gun to his face.
What has Shang Chi done combat speed wise that makes you sure he's that much faster than Bucky? I haven't seen anything that suggest any extreme speed advantage. What has he done that makes him more skilled than Bucky?
I already addressed the blocking bullets with his arm thing above as for skill here:
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He also has stalemated the cat, someone who curbstomped deadpool when they fought.
Without a doubt, shang-chi is a good bullet dodger from fodder or against people without shooting feats. Your argument is that he's good at dodging bullets, and Winter Soldier has never shot anyone as fast as shang-chi. I want to say that argument goes both ways. Those people you showed shooting at Shang-Chi are not on Bucky's level nor are they anywhere near his level. They don't have accuracy feats such as firing 3 of Hawkeye's (one of the best projectile shooters in marvel) out in mid air. Bucky's a very agile shooter, he won't just stand there and watch Shang-Chi dodge and close a gap. He's capable of firing and maneuvering. The last scan is just a speed shooting feat of him taking out 12 men with advanced martian armor using tranquilizers in vulnerable spots of their armor before Namor and Jim could turn around. The others showcase his ability to combat and shoot at the same time.
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Bucky's capable of catching Hawkeye's arrows with ease with either hand, he doesn't need to use his robotic hand. He's blocked gunfire just like Shang-Chi has with his bracelets. I think they are equal in the speed department, I don't think Shang-Chi outclasses Bucky.
What hurts Shang-Chi here is being unarmed. Although he has impressive striking feats against things like Doom bots, he hasn't shown to deliver that much power in combat. It's not easy to deliver those kinds of strikes using skill against someone that is formidable in combat themselves, not unless if you have superhuman attributes which the WS does.
Shang-Chi is coming in against Bucky unarmed. Bucky has various guns, explosives, smoke grenades, knives and his metal arm. His metal arm doesn't just give him striking capabilities, it gives him defensive capabilities as well as a electrical touch that can KO shield agents armored with Tony's tech.
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With the use of smoke, I haven't even gotten into Bucky's stealth capabilities. The guy has been able to figure out how to stalk Wolverine (who has far better senses than Shang-Chi), Sneak up on Wolverine and Handcuff him and trick Wolverine in following him and get gunned down.
They have similar reflexes, speed and agility due to their dodging, blocking and maneuvering out of the way of bullets. But what hurts Shang-Chi is that he's unarmed. Bucky's tech gives him a greater advantage over a unarmed Shang-Chi. Bucky has:
1. Impact and bullet proof suit: Bucky's armor will protect him better than Shang-Chi with a T-Shirt or shirtless.
2. Smoke grenades and explosives: Bucky is an expert in stealth. He's been able to sneak within feat of DD. He's followed Wolverine for months covering his own tracks. He's also used it twice to get a dominate position on Wolverine. Shang-Chi doesn't have senses on par with DD and Wolverine, although he has above average due to his training, he's just not on par.
3. Guns: Bucky is not your average fodder shooter. He's agile, fast and is capable of using the guns to keep Shang-Chi at bay. He's capable of using it to tire Shang-Chi out. Shang-Chi will have to continue to dodge and maneuver more than Bucky has to which will tire him. If it does go in a striking competition, Shang-Chi will already come in at a disadvantage. He's strained himself from moving around and dodging.
4. Knives: If Shang-Chi gets past the guns, With knives, Bucky doesn't need to perform some remarkable striking feat to damage Shang, he just needs a quick swift slash that doesn't require for him to throw all his weight into the swing.
5. Mechanical Arm: Unlike the gun and knives, Bucky's mechanical arm cannot be detached nor does Shang-Chi have anything to deactivate it. The arm grants him the ability to rip the bottom of cars in half, punch through metal doors, robots and a mutant monsters chest. He doesn't just use it for offensive capabilities, but like Shang-Chi, he has dodged bullets, caught arrows, knives and blocked sword strikes from Taskmaster, etc. On top of that, lets not forget just by touching a person he could KO them with his arm.
Shang-Chi is a very skilled H2H guy that is trying to bum rush a very skilled stealth assassin, marksman, knife fighter and H2H combatant himself. There are too many things Shang-Chi has to get past to win this. He has to strike past Bucky's armor, which Bucky will be playing defensive himself while blocking and evading. He'll have to dodge multiple gunfire shots. He'll have to deal with a knife wielding Bucky. He'll have to deal with a superhuman arm that can one shot Shang-Chi. When you think about it, Shang-Chi has to work much harder than Bucky to win this. He has to knock Bucky out. Bucky has more ways of attacking Shang-Chi with stealth, guns, knives or just going H2H with Shang-Chi.
Every scenario you put it, the tech just gives Bucky too much of a advantage against an unarmed Shang-Chi.
@slimj87d: I know those people don't have accuracy feats as good as Bucky's but he is dodging and reacting to the bullet after it is fired. Shang chis ability to dodge bullets isn't in question when he can consistently react to the bullets after they are fired. What is in question is Bucky's ability to lead a target, which is what he needs to shoot someone like shang chi. Punisher doesn't shoot people like spider-man, wolverine, and burn out by shooting where they are, he shoots those people by shooting where there going to go for example. This is why I asked if Buckey has any feats of anticipation. Because thats what he needs to shoot someone who consistently reacts to bullets after they are fired. Sure Bucky is an agile shooter but he only has so many bullets. If he runs out of bullets before he can tag shang chi than this is going to end up in a melee fight even if Bucky does keep his distance the entire time.
As I said I find deflecting a bullet with a small wrist bracer more impressive than using your entire arm to block bullets. And bullets are typically faster than arrows. Not only that but you need to take into account that shang chi has also intercepted a bullet and blocked it for other people. Buckys arm is impressive, and the only counter shang chi has is to avoid it. I think he can possibly manage.
Sure Bucky has gotten the drop on wolverine which is impressive but shang chi got the drop on gorgon during there fight (hence the question mark):
I know shang chi lost the fight but thats besides the point.
So shang chi can actually take advantage of the smoke grenades if needed and hide himself. Unlike gorgon Bucky isn't a telepath. As for tiring honestly the location has some decent cover and the OP never specified starting distance so going by default battle forum rules they begin up close. As for knives, he's managed to disarm someone like ghostmaker before so he could possibly do the same thing to Bucky. As for the metal arm sure shang chi needs to avoid it, but he also has some good durability. He once used chi to catch a punch from one of hulks war bound for example. It did a lot of damage sure, but bucky doesn't hit that hard either.
@bump1010: I don't see why your leading the target thing is such a big deal for someone of Bucky's marksmanship, don't forget about the time he was Captain America and all his shield tossing feats, but here Bucky is running after a Russian Assassin trying to talk to him and get some information. While running and jumping over a lady, he shoots this mans gun under his arm and blows it up.
It's easy to underestimate this feat, but the difficulty of sprinting while shooting and predicting when and where the gun will be.
Bucky does have some intercepting bullet feats as well. He's thrown a shield in the way of a senator's face intercepting the bullet.
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It still goes both ways like I said, as of right now I can't recall Bucky shooting someone like Shang-Chi because a lot of his career was as Captain America a hero. But I don't think Shang-Chi has evaded and easily dodged and punched someone like the Winter Soldier either.
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