Avatar image for sy8000
#1 Edited by Sy8000 (34818 posts) - - Show Bio

Winter Soldier

No Caption Provided

vs

Shang-Chi

No Caption Provided

Rules:

  • In character.
  • Standard gear for Bucky.
  • No stark tech for Shang-Chi.
  • Win by death/KO/incap.
  • Current versions.
  • Fight takes place here:
No Caption Provided

Avatar image for sy8000
Avatar image for bump1010
#3 Posted by bump1010 (979 posts) - - Show Bio

Cool fight.

Avatar image for laflux
#4 Posted by laflux (24720 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably Bucky.

Avatar image for wolverine008
#5 Posted by Wolverine008 (51027 posts) - - Show Bio

Barnes. Just rolling with better combat based feats.

Avatar image for sy8000
#6 Posted by Sy8000 (34818 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

Probably Bucky.

Reasons?

Avatar image for laflux
#7 Posted by laflux (24720 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser:

Barnes. Just rolling with better combat based feats.

This. I think if Shang-Chi had his stark gear, it would be more interesting.

Avatar image for leo-343
#8 Posted by Leo-343 (30909 posts) - - Show Bio

Bucky better feats, Shang is all hype

Avatar image for sy8000
#9 Posted by Sy8000 (34818 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux:

This. I think if Shang-Chi had his stark gear, it would be more interesting.

Eh, I thought that would be a bit OP.

Avatar image for bump1010
#10 Posted by bump1010 (979 posts) - - Show Bio

Barnes. Just rolling with better combat based feats.

What makes you say Bucky has better combat feats?

Avatar image for slimj87d
#11 Edited by slimj87d (15634 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Bucky's gear gives him a advantage. Shane chi uses a shirt and pants. Bucky has bullet proof and impact resistant suit covering his whole body. Then you throw in that one shot power arm and his knives.

Shang has to hit him a lot for him to feel it, bucky just has to land a metal arm punch.

Avatar image for dondave
#12 Edited by dondave (41748 posts) - - Show Bio

James

Avatar image for higorm
#13 Edited by HigorM (8816 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

I think Bucky's gear gives him a advantage. Shane chi uses a shirt and pants. Bucky has bullet proof and impact resistant suit covering his whole body. Then you throw in that one shot power arm and his knives.

Shang has to hit him a lot for him to feel it, bucky just has to land a metal arm punch.

I agree with this.

Avatar image for sy8000
#14 Edited by Sy8000 (34818 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

Avatar image for bump1010
#15 Posted by bump1010 (979 posts) - - Show Bio
@slimj87d said:

I think Bucky's gear gives him a advantage. Shane chi uses a shirt and pants. Bucky has bullet proof and impact resistant suit covering his whole body. Then you throw in that one shot power arm and his knives.

Shang has to hit him a lot for him to feel it, bucky just has to land a metal arm punch.

Shang chi has some great striking power. Not sure if the armor will provide much protection.

Avatar image for slimj87d
#16 Edited by slimj87d (15634 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010: the thing is, he has to land a clean hit. With bucky holding knives and handguns it'd be hard for Shang chi to land a straight haymaker. Bucky took punches from 50s Cap, the guy was two times everything Steve is. Dr. Doom knocked bucky through a wall and book cases iirc also.

I think for Shang to land his best strike would be difficult. He could land jabs, etc, but it's going to be difficult as a boxer in a boxing match to just throw a top heavy punch because if you miss with a haymaker you leave yourself open.

Bucky doesn't really have that problem, he has a solid heavy metal arm that isn't slow and grants him superhuman speed in that arm. And he has knives. Shang chi is unarmed here.

Avatar image for bump1010
#17 Posted by bump1010 (979 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

@bump1010: the thing is, he has to land a clean hit. With bucky holding knives and handguns it'd be hard for Shang chi to land a straight haymaker. Bucky took punches from 50s Cap, the guy was two times everything Steve is. Dr. Doom knocked bucky through a wall and book cases iirc also.

Well shang chi has decapitated doom bots, broke swords with his hits, and has managed to kick down a radio tower. So I think he can still hurt Bucky at least. Thrown in with the fact he will be targeting sensitive areas like he normally does I think he will do fine. As for hand guns shag chi has been known to dodge bullets after they have been fired and block them so he is pretty fast. Has Bucky shot someone as fast as shang chi?

@slimj87d said:

I think for Shang to land his best strike would be difficult. He could land jabs, etc, but it's going to be difficult as a boxer in a boxing match to just throw a top heavy punch because if you miss with a haymaker you leave yourself open.

Bucky doesn't really have that problem, he has a solid heavy metal arm that isn't slow and grants him superhuman speed in that arm. And he has knives. Shang chi is unarmed here.

Well this might be up for @highaccuser to clarify but shang chi has been known at times to carry regular nunchucks pre stark tech. As for the speed of Buckys arm I think shang chi by feats is faster than Bucky.

Avatar image for the_titan_lord
#18 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (8897 posts) - - Show Bio

Bucky

Avatar image for slimj87d
#19 Edited by slimj87d (15634 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010: my point is, you have to hit someone cleanly. For example, if you punch someone in the face and they twist their neck fast enough, they can negate half or even more of the force.

I think Bucky can Dodge and move more swiftly than a Doom bot, the armor is a plus.

If Shang chi had his nunchaku, it would even it a lot more imo.

In regards to Bucky firing speed, he was able to shoot 3 of Hawkeye arrows fired on a dark rainy day behind his back when he was fighting Wolverine and DD.

Avatar image for pooty
#20 Posted by pooty (16236 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser: i think if you made a round with no gear that would be cool

Avatar image for retconcrisis
#21 Posted by RetconCrisis (5593 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343 said:

Bucky better feats, Shang is all hype

Avatar image for bump1010
#22 Posted by bump1010 (979 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

@bump1010: my point is, you have to hit someone cleanly. For example, if you punch someone in the face and they twist their neck fast enough, they can negate half or even more of the force.

I think Bucky can Dodge and move more swiftly than a Doom bot, the armor is a plus.

If Shang chi had his nunchaku, it would even it a lot more imo.

In regards to Bucky firing speed, he was able to shoot 3 of Hawkeye arrows fired on a dark rainy day behind his back when he was fighting Wolverine and DD.

I understand that but if shang chi is faster and more skilled would that be so easy?

Fair enough but I imagine the metal body of a doom bot would also be a lot tougher. I agree with the nunchucks, and in regards to shooting the arrows that is impressive but shag chi can dodge the individual bullets. Does Bucky have any feats of leading a target?

Avatar image for slimj87d
#23 Posted by slimj87d (15634 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010: shang shi dodging bullets didn't stop him from being hit by many other Street levelers, he's not a speedster like quicksilver. I don't think you can assume that that one time he dodged a bullet flying in mid air he can move faster than a bullet.

Bucky has blocked bullets fired at him with his metal arm that were fired by nick Fury and a firing squad behind his back when he was trying to kill the Iron nail. The Iron nail also beat jet black and beat Steve (Steve came back later and got him) and Bucky knocked him back and got a gun to his face.

What has Shang Chi done combat speed wise that makes you sure he's that much faster than Bucky? I haven't seen anything that suggest any extreme speed advantage. What has he done that makes him more skilled than Bucky?

Avatar image for bump1010
#24 Posted by bump1010 (979 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

@bump1010: shang shi dodging bullets didn't stop him from being hit by many other Street levelers, he's not a speedster like quicksilver. I don't think you can assume that that one time he dodged a bullet flying in mid air he can move faster than a bullet.

I never said it did. I wasn't assuming he was always moving faster than a bullet Bucky has just never shot anyone as fast as shang chi before. As for speed feats here:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Bucky blocking bullets with his arm is cool, but I think shang chi using the little area on his wrist is better. He can also use the wrist blocker on his wrist to block bullets for other people. He can also do this:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

He has shown fairly consistently he can bullet time. I don't think he needs to be a speedster. I'm not arguing that Bucky will get blitzed but like how deathstroke beat batman due to being faster shang can do the same to Bucky more or less. Batman wasn't blitzed but Slade said his physicals gave him an edge. Its a similar idea here.

@slimj87d said:

Bucky has blocked bullets fired at him with his metal arm that were fired by nick Fury and a firing squad behind his back when he was trying to kill the Iron nail. The Iron nail also beat jet black and beat Steve (Steve came back later and got him) and Bucky knocked him back and got a gun to his face.

What has Shang Chi done combat speed wise that makes you sure he's that much faster than Bucky? I haven't seen anything that suggest any extreme speed advantage. What has he done that makes him more skilled than Bucky?

I already addressed the blocking bullets with his arm thing above as for skill here:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5
There pretending at first but like half way through the fight they both get serious and Danny comments he might need to use the iron fist to beat someone like shang chi
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6
VS Ghost maker.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5
I'm missing the next page where daredevil was pinned. Now all though yea he used tech on daredevil to win he also would have got a strike in earlier had it not been for daredevils armor.

He also has stalemated the cat, someone who curbstomped deadpool when they fought.

Avatar image for slimj87d
#25 Edited by slimj87d (15634 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010:

Without a doubt, shang-chi is a good bullet dodger from fodder or against people without shooting feats. Your argument is that he's good at dodging bullets, and Winter Soldier has never shot anyone as fast as shang-chi. I want to say that argument goes both ways. Those people you showed shooting at Shang-Chi are not on Bucky's level nor are they anywhere near his level. They don't have accuracy feats such as firing 3 of Hawkeye's (one of the best projectile shooters in marvel) out in mid air. Bucky's a very agile shooter, he won't just stand there and watch Shang-Chi dodge and close a gap. He's capable of firing and maneuvering. The last scan is just a speed shooting feat of him taking out 12 men with advanced martian armor using tranquilizers in vulnerable spots of their armor before Namor and Jim could turn around. The others showcase his ability to combat and shoot at the same time.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

Bucky's capable of catching Hawkeye's arrows with ease with either hand, he doesn't need to use his robotic hand. He's blocked gunfire just like Shang-Chi has with his bracelets. I think they are equal in the speed department, I don't think Shang-Chi outclasses Bucky.

What hurts Shang-Chi here is being unarmed. Although he has impressive striking feats against things like Doom bots, he hasn't shown to deliver that much power in combat. It's not easy to deliver those kinds of strikes using skill against someone that is formidable in combat themselves, not unless if you have superhuman attributes which the WS does.

Shang-Chi is coming in against Bucky unarmed. Bucky has various guns, explosives, smoke grenades, knives and his metal arm. His metal arm doesn't just give him striking capabilities, it gives him defensive capabilities as well as a electrical touch that can KO shield agents armored with Tony's tech.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

With the use of smoke, I haven't even gotten into Bucky's stealth capabilities. The guy has been able to figure out how to stalk Wolverine (who has far better senses than Shang-Chi), Sneak up on Wolverine and Handcuff him and trick Wolverine in following him and get gunned down.

They have similar reflexes, speed and agility due to their dodging, blocking and maneuvering out of the way of bullets. But what hurts Shang-Chi is that he's unarmed. Bucky's tech gives him a greater advantage over a unarmed Shang-Chi. Bucky has:

1. Impact and bullet proof suit: Bucky's armor will protect him better than Shang-Chi with a T-Shirt or shirtless.

2. Smoke grenades and explosives: Bucky is an expert in stealth. He's been able to sneak within feat of DD. He's followed Wolverine for months covering his own tracks. He's also used it twice to get a dominate position on Wolverine. Shang-Chi doesn't have senses on par with DD and Wolverine, although he has above average due to his training, he's just not on par.

3. Guns: Bucky is not your average fodder shooter. He's agile, fast and is capable of using the guns to keep Shang-Chi at bay. He's capable of using it to tire Shang-Chi out. Shang-Chi will have to continue to dodge and maneuver more than Bucky has to which will tire him. If it does go in a striking competition, Shang-Chi will already come in at a disadvantage. He's strained himself from moving around and dodging.

4. Knives: If Shang-Chi gets past the guns, With knives, Bucky doesn't need to perform some remarkable striking feat to damage Shang, he just needs a quick swift slash that doesn't require for him to throw all his weight into the swing.

5. Mechanical Arm: Unlike the gun and knives, Bucky's mechanical arm cannot be detached nor does Shang-Chi have anything to deactivate it. The arm grants him the ability to rip the bottom of cars in half, punch through metal doors, robots and a mutant monsters chest. He doesn't just use it for offensive capabilities, but like Shang-Chi, he has dodged bullets, caught arrows, knives and blocked sword strikes from Taskmaster, etc. On top of that, lets not forget just by touching a person he could KO them with his arm.

Shang-Chi is a very skilled H2H guy that is trying to bum rush a very skilled stealth assassin, marksman, knife fighter and H2H combatant himself. There are too many things Shang-Chi has to get past to win this. He has to strike past Bucky's armor, which Bucky will be playing defensive himself while blocking and evading. He'll have to dodge multiple gunfire shots. He'll have to deal with a knife wielding Bucky. He'll have to deal with a superhuman arm that can one shot Shang-Chi. When you think about it, Shang-Chi has to work much harder than Bucky to win this. He has to knock Bucky out. Bucky has more ways of attacking Shang-Chi with stealth, guns, knives or just going H2H with Shang-Chi.

Every scenario you put it, the tech just gives Bucky too much of a advantage against an unarmed Shang-Chi.

Avatar image for bump1010
#26 Edited by bump1010 (979 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: I know those people don't have accuracy feats as good as Bucky's but he is dodging and reacting to the bullet after it is fired. Shang chis ability to dodge bullets isn't in question when he can consistently react to the bullets after they are fired. What is in question is Bucky's ability to lead a target, which is what he needs to shoot someone like shang chi. Punisher doesn't shoot people like spider-man, wolverine, and burn out by shooting where they are, he shoots those people by shooting where there going to go for example. This is why I asked if Buckey has any feats of anticipation. Because thats what he needs to shoot someone who consistently reacts to bullets after they are fired. Sure Bucky is an agile shooter but he only has so many bullets. If he runs out of bullets before he can tag shang chi than this is going to end up in a melee fight even if Bucky does keep his distance the entire time.

As I said I find deflecting a bullet with a small wrist bracer more impressive than using your entire arm to block bullets. And bullets are typically faster than arrows. Not only that but you need to take into account that shang chi has also intercepted a bullet and blocked it for other people. Buckys arm is impressive, and the only counter shang chi has is to avoid it. I think he can possibly manage.

Sure Bucky has gotten the drop on wolverine which is impressive but shang chi got the drop on gorgon during there fight (hence the question mark):

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

I know shang chi lost the fight but thats besides the point.

So shang chi can actually take advantage of the smoke grenades if needed and hide himself. Unlike gorgon Bucky isn't a telepath. As for tiring honestly the location has some decent cover and the OP never specified starting distance so going by default battle forum rules they begin up close. As for knives, he's managed to disarm someone like ghostmaker before so he could possibly do the same thing to Bucky. As for the metal arm sure shang chi needs to avoid it, but he also has some good durability. He once used chi to catch a punch from one of hulks war bound for example. It did a lot of damage sure, but bucky doesn't hit that hard either.

Avatar image for bump1010
#27 Posted by bump1010 (979 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser: So it shang chi unarmed here or does he get some nunchucks?

Avatar image for slimj87d
#28 Posted by slimj87d (15634 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010: I believe Gorgon fights generally blindfolded or with his eyes closed, so I don't think that's as impressive. Gorgon has never shown to have inhuman senses on Wolverine's ability like hearing, etc.

Avatar image for sy8000
#29 Posted by Sy8000 (34818 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for bump1010
#30 Edited by bump1010 (979 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

@bump1010: I believe Gorgon fights generally blindfolded or with his eyes closed, so I don't think that's as impressive. Gorgon has never shown to have inhuman senses on Wolverine's ability like hearing, etc.

But as you said he fights blindfolded. So wouldn't that mean he relies more on his other senses?

Avatar image for keenko
#31 Posted by Keenko (5185 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343 said:

Bucky better feats, Shang is all hype

Avatar image for slimj87d
#32 Posted by slimj87d (15634 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010: Possibly his telepathy but only when he knows where the target is. @wolverine08 knows a lot more on Gorgon.

Avatar image for bump1010
#33 Edited by bump1010 (979 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

@bump1010: Possibly his telepathy but only when he knows where the target is. @wolverine08 knows a lot more on Gorgon.

How would he know where the target is if he is wearing a blind fold constantly though? I assume he would need good senses otherwise he would be bumping into walls and stuff?

Avatar image for slimj87d
#34 Edited by slimj87d (15634 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010: LOL at Gorgon bumping into walls. I actually don't even know if he's really blind folded or actually just wearing a screen because he uses sun glasses. So I don't think he's actually blind folded my bad, I forgot about the sun glasses. When he took over as Wolverine he never fought blind either. But again, where has Gorgon shown senses on par with DD and Wolverine such as smelling and hearing?

Avatar image for dagmar_merrill
#35 Posted by dagmar_merrill (12701 posts) - - Show Bio

Bucky

Avatar image for bump1010
#36 Posted by bump1010 (979 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

@bump1010: LOL at Gorgon bumping into walls. I actually don't even know if he's really blind folded or actually just wearing a screen because he uses sun glasses. So I don't think he's actually blind folded my bad, I forgot about the sun glasses. When he took over as Wolverine he never fought blind either. But again, where has Gorgon shown senses on par with DD and Wolverine such as smelling and hearing?

Well we know he can fight with a blind fold so thats something. I wasn't saying shang chis stealth is as good as Buckys but I don't think it needs to be. It only needs to be good enough to hide from Bucky.

All though another thing to consider is that there aren't to many hiding places here and its day light by the looks of things. So I don't think stealth will play to big of a role.

Avatar image for slimj87d
#37 Edited by slimj87d (15634 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010: I don't see why your leading the target thing is such a big deal for someone of Bucky's marksmanship, don't forget about the time he was Captain America and all his shield tossing feats, but here Bucky is running after a Russian Assassin trying to talk to him and get some information. While running and jumping over a lady, he shoots this mans gun under his arm and blows it up.

It's easy to underestimate this feat, but the difficulty of sprinting while shooting and predicting when and where the gun will be.

No Caption Provided

Bucky does have some intercepting bullet feats as well. He's thrown a shield in the way of a senator's face intercepting the bullet.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

It still goes both ways like I said, as of right now I can't recall Bucky shooting someone like Shang-Chi because a lot of his career was as Captain America a hero. But I don't think Shang-Chi has evaded and easily dodged and punched someone like the Winter Soldier either.

Avatar image for bump1010
#38 Posted by bump1010 (979 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: The reason my leading the target point is a big deal is because I think this is the most important skill in terms of marksmanship. Shooting at shang chi isn't going to work because he can dodge Buckys actual bullets. He needs to be able to set him up in order to shoot him.

Your second point is fair.

Avatar image for phoenixtitan
#39 Posted by PhoenixTitan (732 posts) - - Show Bio

CLose fight.

Avatar image for the_magister
#40 Posted by The_Magister (13075 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for heirtothekingdom
#41 Posted by HeirToTheKingdom (9201 posts) - - Show Bio

Shang-Chi.

Avatar image for morpheus_
#42 Posted by Morpheus_ (34033 posts) - - Show Bio

Shang-Chi. Different tier.