Who's the most powerful Ghost Rider?

johnny

@Supermanwithatan01: they did fight and Ketch won, there is an issue dealing with the same :)

@demifiend said:

johnny

But Ketch has beaten Johnny , has killed many riders.. Johnny hasnt done so

i change my mind, ketch wins this, he beat galactus. 
 
   

Well Blaze is supposed to be Angelic according to the latest iteration, but his origins and powers are somewhat screwed up. I vote for Blaze since he has penance stare and other powers that he once did not have. Blaze has more time in service as well. He has been GR for much longer and shown considerable feats. Blaze would win, but it would be a slobberknocker.

@Killemall: You are talking about the Last Stand of the Spirits of Vengeance arc, and Ketch was boosted before finaly fighting Blaze, he was absorbing all those spirits because he couldn't confront Johnny directly, they were evenly matched and Dan needed more power to beat his brother, also if you read their fights in that arc you'll see that Blaze was doing really well against his brother even with all the power he had stolen from other Ghost Rider's, and Johnny was only beaten in the end because Kowalski shot him witha hellfire shotgun and then Dan drained Johhny of his powers.

@Supermanwithatan01: As for your questions, their origins and powers are really confuse so I'll do my best to explain, for Johnny, his power does come from Zarathos, at first it was tought that Mephisto was the one that had bounded it to him, but later it is revealed that it was Zadkiel that was behind it all, and for Dan, his soul is bound to Noble Kale who was the first Ghost Rider ever.

Their powers actually come from the Medallion of Power which was an ancient artifact of great power it contained the powers of not only Zarathos but also those of other Spirits of Vengeance, the power of the medallion was divided between two families, the Kale family and the Badilino family, currently the only active holders of this power are Johnny, Dan and Michael Badilino. Well at least that's what I can gather after reading so many comics with him in it, but for real it's hard to say exactly how it works since even the writers don't seem to know.

As for the fight, it is either a draw or a win for Blaze.

@TheMightyAvenger said:

@Killemall: You are talking about the Last Stand of the Spirits of Vengeance arc, and Ketch was boosted before finaly fighting Blaze, he was absorbing all those spirits because he couldn't confront Johnny directly, they were evenly matched and Dan needed more power to beat his brother, also if you read their fights in that arc you'll see that Blaze was doing really well against his brother even with all the power he had stolen from other Ghost Rider's, and Johnny was only beaten in the end because Kowalski shot him witha hellfire shotgun and then Dan drained Johhny of his powers.

@Supermanwithatan01: As for your questions, their origins and powers are really confuse so I'll do my best to explain, for Johnny, his power does come from Zarathos, at first it was tought that Mephisto was the one that had bounded it to him, but later it is revealed that it was Zadkiel that was behind it all, and for Dan, his soul is bound to Noble Kale who was the first Ghost Rider ever.

Their powers actually come from the Medallion of Power which was an ancient artifact of great power it contained the powers of not only Zarathos but also those of other Spirits of Vengeance, the power of the medallion was divided between two families, the Kale family and the Badilino family, currently the only active holders of this power are Johnny, Dan and Michael Badilino. Well at least that's what I can gather after reading so many comics with him in it, but for real it's hard to say exactly how it works since even the writers don't seem to know.

As for the fight, it is either a draw or a win for Blaze.

You. Are. My. Hero. Thanks a lot. ONE Last question if I may. When Johnny was talking to Zadkiel he said Only God can create a Rider and only God can destroy one. Under the forum from Marvel people that sounded pretty intelligent stated that technically for villains that have no link to Heaven, such as a weapon forged through holy means, should not be able to defeat any Ghost Rider. He can not be killed he just reforms, he can judge ANYONE with a soul that has ever done wrong, his power on more than one occasion has been implied limitless, and he seems to have to be defeated by PIS whenever he loses (which evidently isn't often). Soo my question(s) is/are if are these Forum posters correct? and Second question is I've seen Johnny Blaze (full power whatever that means) vs Silver Surfer, or vs Thor..  Some people (very few answered) that Surfer wins via speed blitz and thor is a god he's too strong and he's got better feats.. etc... But how do you defeat someone that can't be killed, is powered by God, can only be destroyed by God, and has no weakness' besides Truly Holy weapons...? (short of Bfr)
 
 
 
@Pokeysteve said:

@Supermanwithatan01: Johnny hasn't been bonded to Zarathos for a while. During his last series he was bonded with The Spirit of Vengence by Zadkiel. I haven't read his older stuff but I'm pretty sure that last series is when he was at his most powerful. Currently he's depowered.

@TheMightyAvenger said:

@Killemall: You are talking about the Last Stand of the Spirits of Vengeance arc, and Ketch was boosted before finaly fighting Blaze, he was absorbing all those spirits because he couldn't confront Johnny directly, they were evenly matched and Dan needed more power to beat his brother, also if you read their fights in that arc you'll see that Blaze was doing really well against his brother even with all the power he had stolen from other Ghost Rider's, and Johnny was only beaten in the end because Kowalski shot him witha hellfire shotgun and then Dan drained Johhny of his powers.

YEs that is the exact battle i am talking about, and yes he was amped up by the angel not the powers of a dead riders if i remember correctly. Besides that has pretty much always been the difference Ketch is more ruthless and willing to kill, Johnny despite having more stories on his name has always been rather subduded at using her powers. Besides, the whole purpose of the issue was to show who was the better rider evident by the name of the particular issue :)

the difference i see is, 2 riders of same powers, one's more rutheless and willing to be consumed by the power and the other a little subsuded by it. One craves the powers, the other despise it. As such i dont see Johnny being above Ketch.

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

You. Are. My. Hero. Thanks a lot. ONE Last question if I may. When Johnny was talking to Zadkiel he said Only God can create a Rider and only God can destroy one. Under the forum from Marvel people that sounded pretty intelligent stated that technically for villains that have no link to Heaven, such as a weapon forged through holy means, should not be able to defeat any Ghost Rider. He can not be killed he just reforms, he can judge ANYONE with a soul that has ever done wrong, his power on more than one occasion has been implied limitless, and he seems to have to be defeated by PIS whenever he loses (which evidently isn't often). Soo my question(s) is/are if are these Forum posters correct? and Second question is I've seen Johnny Blaze (full power whatever that means) vs Silver Surfer, or vs Thor.. Some people (very few answered) that Surfer wins via speed blitz and thor is a god he's too strong and he's got better feats.. etc... But how do you defeat someone that can't be killed, is powered by God, can only be destroyed by God, and has no weakness' besides Truly Holy weapons...? (short of Bfr)

Granted that this question wasnt aimed at me, i can still answer it for you if you like. Firstly, something being mentioned in a fight without any feats to back itself up with is generally considered hyperbole, therefore there is no hard and fast proof that only god can kill a ghost rider. In fact, Ketch did kill many ghost rider and he most definitely is not a god. Secondly, no there have been instances where Ghost Rider's power have failed to work: it did not work against Deadpool, it did not work against venom, and it did not work against Daredevil when he was possessed by the evil spirit of The Hand.

Regarding the other part, his powers are limitless ONLY WHEN the spirit of vengence takes over, even then since spirit of vengence is not a complete heavenly entity (he was cursed by the devil plus his powers mostly comes from the heaven, the spirit of vengence itself have been revealed to be a heavenly entity but GR parly is a bountry hunter of the devil) and when it is taking control he will be almost unstoppable (like Spectre from DC since Spectre is purely the spirit of vengence)but normally he is not as unstoppable.

Techinically unless BFR is allowed Silver Surfer should not be able to beat Ghost Rider at all, because unless you have holy weapons you should not be able to hurt Ghost Rider. Ghost rider has shown to recover instantly from any and all physical harms within seconds. He regenerated his cut off legs, he generated himself when he was shattered to pieces by a truck and to think of it every time he goes rider he ends up buring his skins which he regenerates once the turns back to human form. But what ppl will bring up is that Silver Surfer has more feats and thats pretty much it.

In regards to Thor beating GR i have absolutely no reason to believe Thor cannot beat him. Thor's hammer is , by all means, a heavenly weapon. and ppl a lot weaker than thor has been able to give GR a run for his money with simply heavenly weapon, given the stats of thor and his hammer, i see thor beating GR in a straight up fight.

@Killemall said:

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

In regards to Thor beating GR i have absolutely no reason to believe Thor cannot beat him. Thor's hammer is , by all means, a heavenly weapon. and ppl a lot weaker than thor has been able to give GR a run for his money with simply heavenly weapon, given the stats of thor and his hammer, i see thor beating GR in a straight up fight.

That was exactly my thought although i also see the problem with the word "heavenly" in a universe with a christian heaven and "pagan" heavens side by side.....you know what i mean? :-)

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

You. Are. My. Hero. Thanks a lot. ONE Last question if I may. When Johnny was talking to Zadkiel he said Only God can create a Rider and only God can destroy one. Under the forum from Marvel people that sounded pretty intelligent stated that technically for villains that have no link to Heaven, such as a weapon forged through holy means, should not be able to defeat any Ghost Rider. He can not be killed he just reforms, he can judge ANYONE with a soul that has ever done wrong, his power on more than one occasion has been implied limitless, and he seems to have to be defeated by PIS whenever he loses (which evidently isn't often). Soo my question(s) is/are if are these Forum posters correct? and Second question is I've seen Johnny Blaze (full power whatever that means) vs Silver Surfer, or vs Thor.. Some people (very few answered) that Surfer wins via speed blitz and thor is a god he's too strong and he's got better feats.. etc... But how do you defeat someone that can't be killed, is powered by God, can only be destroyed by God, and has no weakness' besides Truly Holy weapons...? (short of Bfr)

Granted that this question wasnt aimed at me, i can still answer it for you if you like. Firstly, something being mentioned in a fight without any feats to back itself up with is generally considered hyperbole, therefore there is no hard and fast proof that only god can kill a ghost rider. In fact, Ketch did kill many ghost rider and he most definitely is not a god. Secondly, no there have been instances where Ghost Rider's power have failed to work: it did not work against Deadpool, it did not work against venom, and it did not work against Daredevil when he was possessed by the evil spirit of The Hand.

Regarding the other part, his powers are limitless ONLY WHEN the spirit of vengence takes over, even then since spirit of vengence is not a complete heavenly entity (he was cursed by the devil plus his powers mostly comes from the heaven, the spirit of vengence itself have been revealed to be a heavenly entity but GR parly is a bountry hunter of the devil) and when it is taking control he will be almost unstoppable (like Spectre from DC since Spectre is purely the spirit of vengence)but normally he is not as unstoppable.

Techinically unless BFR is allowed Silver Surfer should not be able to beat Ghost Rider at all, because unless you have holy weapons you should not be able to hurt Ghost Rider. Ghost rider has shown to recover instantly from any and all physical harms within seconds. He regenerated his cut off legs, he generated himself when he was shattered to pieces by a truck and to think of it every time he goes rider he ends up buring his skins which he regenerates once the turns back to human form. But what ppl will bring up is that Silver Surfer has more feats and thats pretty much it.

In regards to Thor beating GR i have absolutely no reason to believe Thor cannot beat him. Thor's hammer is , by all means, a heavenly weapon. and ppl a lot weaker than thor has been able to give GR a run for his money with simply heavenly weapon, given the stats of thor and his hammer, i see thor beating GR in a straight up fight.

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

@Killemall said:
Thors hammer isn't a heavenly weapon it was created from Uru medal enchanted by Odin. Heavenly weapons are holy relics under the angels and demons based upon the praise or faith in the God not a god. Omnipotence over magic or enchanted immportals... IE One Above All angel zadkiel and demon mephisto etc.. I saw a scan from a fight when Ghost Rider fought the avengers or really just bypassed them and Thor tried to do some power hammer throw and Ghost Rider caught it. It didn't effect him at all. Thats why I asked. I give ya the Hyperbole but it was Zadkiels lesson and God was present. From what you say it seems like the guys and girls from the forum discussion board were correct in stating that Ghost Rider is surrounded by a LOT of PIS because of his particular powerset and creation in general.. Its a fine line of religion in Marvel. Agreed or Disagreed?

Agreed most part disagreed few.

Firstly it matter little how the weapon was created, secondly especially in comics Weapons with the powers of a god are generally considered heavenly. Odin Force is the life force of the all father; it has to be considered holy powers anyways. Besides, in Norse (Viking) mythology he is the main god. Odin force is all fathers’ life, force so that most definitely makes it holy.

Besides ghost rider has been harmed by bullets being dipped in holy water.

Thor’s hammer in many instances have been stated to be an enchanted mallet, and for me it should be more than capable of hurting ghost rider if need be.

One Above All is not really a god per say, he is the creator for comicvine users and in comics explained as the higher authority, which by itself does not make him a god. Indeed he would be way more powerful than a god, at least in his comics!!

Most definitely Ghost Rider is surrounded by PIS because think of it this way, he sold his soul to the devil and was turned into a devil’s bounty hunter. Hence he has the HELL FIRE! In him which is powered from pits of hell, and have other endowed powers from hell. On top of that, spirit of vengeance in him comes from heaven, which by itself has boundless energy. Spirit of vengeance is better depicted in Spectre in DC, and we all know, unless he is jobbing or horrible written, how powerful he actually is. Now consider it, with powers from both should he not be more powerful than Spectre himself? If that remains correctly pretty much no one on Marvel Earth should be able to hurt him, much less beat him.

But therein lies the problem, heaven and hell do not join well. So I am assuming because of heaven and hell powers combined within him, he does not get full access to either.

If you say God was present, which god are we talking about?? Ares is a god, so is Thor, so is Ares’s son, so is Hercules. Can they all kill ghost rider and Zadkiel who is much more powerful than them but is not a god can’t kill him?? Add to that the fact that Ketch killed so many ghost riders and he is not a god in any sense whatsoever.

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

@Killemall said:
Thors hammer isn't a heavenly weapon it was created from Uru medal enchanted by Odin. Heavenly weapons are holy relics under the angels and demons based upon the praise or faith in the God not a god. Omnipotence over magic or enchanted immportals... IE One Above All angel zadkiel and demon mephisto etc.. I saw a scan from a fight when Ghost Rider fought the avengers or really just bypassed them and Thor tried to do some power hammer throw and Ghost Rider caught it. It didn't effect him at all. Thats why I asked. I give ya the Hyperbole but it was Zadkiels lesson and God was present. From what you say it seems like the guys and girls from the forum discussion board were correct in stating that Ghost Rider is surrounded by a LOT of PIS because of his particular powerset and creation in general.. Its a fine line of religion in Marvel. Agreed or Disagreed?

Agreed most part disagreed few.

Firstly it matter little how the weapon was created, secondly especially in comics Weapons with the powers of a god are generally considered heavenly. Odin Force is the life force of the all father; it has to be considered holy powers anyways. Besides, in Norse (Viking) mythology he is the main god. Odin force is all fathers’ life, force so that most definitely makes it holy.

Besides ghost rider has been harmed by bullets being dipped in holy water.

Thor’s hammer in many instances have been stated to be an enchanted mallet, and for me it should be more than capable of hurting ghost rider if need be.

One Above All is not really a god per say, he is the creator for comicvine users and in comics explained as the higher authority, which by itself does not make him a god. Indeed he would be way more powerful than a god, at least in his comics!!

Most definitely Ghost Rider is surrounded by PIS because think of it this way, he sold his soul to the devil and was turned into a devil’s bounty hunter. Hence he has the HELL FIRE! In him which is powered from pits of hell, and have other endowed powers from hell. On top of that, spirit of vengeance in him comes from heaven, which by itself has boundless energy. Spirit of vengeance is better depicted in Spectre in DC, and we all know, unless he is jobbing or horrible written, how powerful he actually is. Now consider it, with powers from both should he not be more powerful than Spectre himself? If that remains correctly pretty much no one on Marvel Earth should be able to hurt him, much less beat him.

But therein lies the problem, heaven and hell do not join well. So I am assuming because of heaven and hell powers combined within him, he does not get full access to either.

If you say God was present, which god are we talking about?? Ares is a god, so is Thor, so is Ares’s son, so is Hercules. Can they all kill ghost rider and Zadkiel who is much more powerful than them but is not a god can’t kill him?? Add to that the fact that Ketch killed so many ghost riders and he is not a god in any sense whatsoever.

@Supermanwithatan01: That is sth you are missing, ODIN is the be all and end all in Norse mythology so no there cannot be a small G and a Big G. Odin is called the ALL FATHER because he created everything using ODIN FORCE :), at least under his mythology, the powers of god. When we talk about god in comics, in Marvel specially and the one you are referring to is the god in heaven right?? So would u claim he is over The one above all?? No that's the thing.

Well i dont know man Shadowland DD god possessed by the hand's demon. GR fought him, all his weapons were useless. Hellfire didnt work at all. DD looked mega gega powerful but Elektra was able to talk to him, he got his arse kicked by Iron Fist when he finally use his chi and thats the reason its considered PIS. GR should be able to kick the shit out of Iron Fist . The chi helps him gain control over the monster and he kills himself , but his corpse disappears hinting that Elektra took it (perhaps to have $ex with it or revive it, dont know man)

Other useless stuff that happend was a bunch of ninjas were able to beat juggernaut, so Andy Diggle the write most likely was high on crack.

@Supermanwithatan01: As for your other question, Killemall answered most of them, though I have a slithtly different point of view on the Riders power, their real or full power is only achieved when the spirit that powers them is in control, a great deal of the times when he is beaten is because Blaze is control not the spirit. A spirit of vengeance can't be killed but it's host can for example, Blaze can die but the spirit that powers him cannot. Also I do believe that vast cosmic powers and magic might be able to incapacitate a spirit of vengeance . And yes Shadowland was so full of PIS I want to forget it happened. Ghost |Rider would wipe the floor with Daredevil with or without the Beast.

@Killemall: No in the issue it is stated that Dan was killing the hosts not the actual Spirits, and absorbing the spirits to become stronger so he could destroy the walls of heaven. There is no reason to believe that Ghost Rider at full power would be lie the Spectre as there is no evidence to assume that the God they mean in Ghost Rider's comics is TOAA or another entity.

Technically speaking wouldn't Zarathos be the most powerful rider...or is that for another subject?

@Supermanwithatan01: As for your other question, Killemall answered most of them, though I have a slithtly different point of view on the Riders power, their real or full power is only achieved when the spirit that powers them is in control, a great deal of the times when he is beaten is because Blaze is control not the spirit. A spirit of vengeance can't be killed but it's host can for example, Blaze can die but the spirit that powers him cannot. Also I do believe that vast cosmic powers and magic might be able to incapacitate a spirit of vengeance . And yes Shadowland was so full of PIS I want to forget it happened. Ghost |Rider would wipe the floor with Daredevil with or without the Beast.

@Killemall: No in the issue it is stated that Dan was killing the hosts not the actual Spirits, and absorbing the spirits to become stronger so he could destroy the walls of heaven. There is no reason to believe that Ghost Rider at full power would be lie the Spectre as there is no evidence to assume that the God they mean in Ghost Rider's comics is TOAA or another entity.

@Outside_85: Zarathos is not a Rider he's one of the spirits that powers them.

@Supermanwithatan01: I don't know if he can be killed but he has been hurt before.

@TheMightyAvenger said:

@Killemall: No in the issue it is stated that Dan was killing the hosts not the actual Spirits, and absorbing the spirits to become stronger so he could destroy the walls of heaven. There is no reason to believe that Ghost Rider at full power would be lie the Spectre as there is no evidence to assume that the God they mean in Ghost Rider's comics is TOAA or another entity.

Yes of course, I mean you can kill a human but you still can’t kill a human’s spirit, let alone the spirit of the ghost rider so I got to agree.

In regards to the other part since both the characters are actually derived from the Christian mythology, and let me go a bit overboard and explain what I mean. In catholic Christianity a person is forbidden by the god to engage in “mutual retaliation of evil” (take revenge). It also says that if someone actually harms an innocent and if that “vindictive” (evil) spirit goes unpunished it shall face the wrath of god (also later addressed as the spirit of vengeance)

Since both the characters are explained as the spirit of vengeance I assumed they had the same origin. However, that being said, we know that same character can have 2 different power levels, look at Marvel/Dc Hercules, Areas, etc. and hence your argument is very well acknowledged.

@TheMightyAvenger said:

@Supermanwithatan01: I don't know if he can be killed but he has been hurt before.

Has ghost rider been hurt before and was unable to regenerate himself, without the aid of holy weapon? This i am completely unaware of, could u be kind enough to post a scan or perhaps name the issue so i would go check it out myself.

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

@TheMightyAvenger said:

But Johnny can't be killed in his Ghost Rider form right?? Thats why he reforms and whatnot unless he is killed with a holy weapon or some sort of terrible PIS right?

AND @Killemall: I get what you're saying but what I'm trying to exlain is in all belief systems there are depictions of the most powerful. But God will always be (in any literature) >>>>> any god such as Zeus, Odin, or Saturn. It's just how writing works. Odin is the allfather because he resides over the 9 realms but he didn't create earth or frost giants or humans or etc... Odin himself as well as the rest of the Universe are/were created by the Marvel God (cap G) or TOAA. And the retired poster "Zoom" (smartest poster i've ever met no offense to anyone) cleared up the holy weapon thing. Pantheon gods aren't considered holy. A Monotheistic Deity that reigns as the only TRUE Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, and Omnibenevolent entity. That is holy worship. He created the Riders. He is the only one to have power over their destruction according to Fear Itself. It was explained a lot better than I can explain it. But

In regards to your first part, I really think so because I personally haven’t seen a ghost rider being hurt and not able to regenerate almost immediately, unless a holy weapon is involved. But then TheMightyAvenger says he has been hurt before so I am yet to receive his reply. If anything that might have been a PIS because the source of rider’s power comes from both heaven and hell and unless those powers are somehow cut off (which I have never seen happen) or destroyed (destroying both heaven and hell, unlikely to happen) Ghost rider is not going to run out of power.

Besides his healing factor can even put deadpool to shame:

· He has regenerate his arms in seconds

· He has regenerated his legs in seconds

· He was totally smashed by a truck and he regenerated in seconds

· His head was blow off and he regenerated in seconds

I have all the scans if ever required :)

[ As a side note ,Conventional magic cannot really overpower ghost rider because at one instance he was able to defeat Dr. Strange. Granted that strange was more interested in calming him down, strange back then was over powerful]

So unless holy weapon is involved I don’t see how a being as such can even be hurt.

Secondly, in terms of second part no one should be offended by you mentioning Zoom as the smartest person here, expect perhaps Buckshot. Just kidding, Buckshot is the other debater, not yet retired, who is very well informed and makes amazing arguments. In regards to the thing you mentioned about ghost rider, frankly, it’s something new I learned today from you and it totally makes sense.

@Supermanwithatan01: He has been hurt but never really killed, I mean the spirit wasn't, if you remember the host can be killed even in his Ghost Rider form, but the spirit will change to another body until it's mission is acomplished, it happened in Last Stand of The Spirits of Vengeance. The host himself can be killed, but Johnny and Dan are more powerfull than other riders because they actually posses a piece of the Medallion so apparently their powers are greater, well at least that's what makes sense from all I've read with him in it.

@Killemall: Could you please post those scans I have them on comic but I can't scan them, I would like to have it. And yes that thing about christianity makes sense, although I'm not a really religious guy I have some knowledge about different religions, since it's something that intrigues me. And yes there is no evidence that Ghost Rider and Spectre have the same origin, and even if they do they do not seem to be on the same power level.

@TheMightyAvenger: Ok lets see what i have:

Gallery

That's him being able to regenerate his skull,this is from ghost rider, The Hammer Lane Part 3, and the title was chain of fools.

Gallery

This is where the devil pull off his legs and he is able to regenerate it within seconds.

The last one, where he was able to regenerate the whole body, i apparently cant find. Will post it once i find them.

Hope this helps.

While we're on the topic of the "Vengeance of God" - the Living Tribunal, confirmed servant and representative of the One-Above-All has actually worked with DC's Sceptre, or Wrath of God. So I think it is fair to argue that TOAA IS actually a close counterpart of the Judeo-Christian God...and besides, come on, it's more an issue of common sense more than anything, if you ask me...

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

I saw a scan from a fight when Ghost Rider fought the avengers or really just bypassed them and Thor tried to do some power hammer throw and Ghost Rider caught it. It didn't effect him at all. Thats why I asked. I give ya the Hyperbole but it was Zadkiels lesson and God was present. From what you say it seems like the guys and girls from the forum discussion board were correct in stating that Ghost Rider is surrounded by a LOT of PIS because of his particular powerset and creation in general.. Its a fine line of religion in Marvel. Agreed or Disagreed?

So did GR actually pwn Thor with the hammer catch or is this PIS??

@Pokeysteve: whos more powerful sov or zara?

@xxdeathmakerxx: Zath took down Mephisto in his own realm. I can't remember SOV doing anything comparable. Rather I can't remember how powerful Zadkiel was.

@Pokeysteve: kale one shotted blackheart in his own realm and nightmare the guy who beat eternity in his own realm

@spiderbuck1: it did happen zara outsmarted thor

@xxdeathmakerxx: I haven't read any of Kale's stuff. What issues was that story?

@Pokeysteve: sry currently out of states

That was in ghost rider vol2 issue 94

Basically kale one shotted blackheart in hell and became the new lord till mephisto came back to punish his back stabbing son

@Pokeysteve: as for the nightmare arc cant remember

But nightmare trapped eternity so he is Crazy powerful yet he didnt have the power To keep up with kale

@themightyavenger: can Johnny Blaze be killed in his Ghost Rider form? Or because he's got half of the medallion does he have a special connection with Zarathos that prevents his death?

I'm just curious because I'm thinking to myself, "let's say Johnny is in his GR form and fighting someone like Thor or Wonder Woman or anyone with godly weapons. Can they kill Johnny or would Zarathos take over and eat them alive?

bump