so you think if it came down to him saving somebody you dont think he would do it he was pretty good at bringing the xmen back together and when took on gambit he was just laying around with him he does what he has to
Cyclops, no question. Wolverine knows this, and has always said he is a terrible leader. And he does have something of a hard time with keeping X-Force together, although not all of that is his fault.
"so you think if it came down to him saving somebody you dont think he would do it he was pretty good at bringing the xmen back together and when took on gambit he was just laying around with him he does what he has to"
The cartoon version in Wolverine of the X-men is not true to character of the comic version. He is more like Hugh Jackman in the X movies. Wolverine is not the leader type unless it is like an assassination or black ops mission, In the cartoon he is to tall, and throws too many kicks. They do not allow him to kill anyone. Wolvie isn't a boy scout like Scott, thats why he wouldn't be a good leader. He is moody and goes into his feral rages from time to time. Still he is a good guy with so much experience. But Scott is like Professor X's son. He was raised by him and follows all his teachings. Wolverine has some differing opinions. He is not afraid to kill some one when it is necessary. I could go on, but there is a long list of why Cyclops is a better leader, and it has been proven time and time again, in the comics and original cartoons.
cyckes is the best Xmen leader however wolverine is a strong leader too hes got the experience and tactics to lead a team but he doest really rally the boys.
summers is not a better leader than rogers nor than superman
I would consider among the top leaders ever wolverine is a second command guy and most likely the best #2 around
Scott is a natural leader. Logan is a natural loner.
Logan isn't a natural loner.He's a loner by circumstance.He leads a team now..so I don't see why people want to keep labeling him a loner...In fact he's been on more teams than half of Marvel.
I don't think so.I don't see what makes Scott a better leader."
You dont see what makes Cyclops a better leader then Wolverine? Intelligence for one. Wolverine has always been a charge in head first type of guy. His healing factor allows him to be reckless, not to mention he's kinda selfish. Even when he was on Weapon X with Creed and Maverick he wasn't the leader. Until X-Force, which is basically a team of expendables, he never led jack.
I don't think so.I don't see what makes Scott a better leader."
You dont see what makes Cyclops a better leader then Wolverine? Intelligence for one. Wolverine has always been a charge in head first type of guy. His healing factor allows him to be reckless, not to mention he's kinda selfish. Even when he was on Weapon X with Creed and Maverick he wasn't the leader. Until X-Force, which is basically a team of expendables, he never led jack. "
I don't think so.I don't see what makes Scott a better leader."
You dont see what makes Cyclops a better leader then Wolverine? Intelligence for one. Wolverine has always been a charge in head first type of guy. His healing factor allows him to be reckless, not to mention he's kinda selfish. Even when he was on Weapon X with Creed and Maverick he wasn't the leader. Until X-Force, which is basically a team of expendables, he never led jack. "
Mah..I know what makes him a better leader than Wolverine.You said Cyclops was the best leader in comics in your opinion.I disagreed saying I don't see what makes him a better leader (I meant to say "than Captain America'.
"What is it that makes Cyclops a better leader than Cap..In your opinion?"
Just opinion. Cyclops actually led people who needed it. Everyone on the Avengers could lead a team themselves. "
That comment alone makes Cap better. Being the leader of people who are capable of leading is waaaayyyyy better then leading people that need to be lead. Wouldn't you agree King of Kings
Scott is a natural leader. Logan is a natural loner.
Logan isn't a natural loner.He's a loner by circumstance.He leads a team now..so I don't see why people want to keep labeling him a loner...In fact he's been on more teams than half of Marvel."
It would be interesting, seeing as how Marvel has decided that Wolvy has evolved from, well, wolves, to give him a team of likewise instinctual characters with which he could develop a sort of pack mentality. I feel like that could be a pretty scary team, similar to X-Force, but possibly more dangerous.
Wolves are fairly social animals (despite the "loner" stereotype) and it actually makes a lot of sense when you think about Wolverine's character, that he would be descended from them. He often tries to separate himself from his teammates, but is usually unsuccessful, and to the contrary, developes very strong familial bonds with almost everyone he comes into contact with. While he does work well alone, he is at his best when he is within the security of a pack (team,) and while he is a strong member, I think he takes the "runt" stigma to heart, and most certainly isn't the "alpha dog," that's Cyke.
In X-Force Slim is pretty much telling Wolverine what to do and he is like a Field Commander. To stay on topic Cyclops is a better leader then Wolverine
"What is it that makes Cyclops a better leader than Cap..In your opinion?"
Just opinion. Cyclops actually led people who needed it. Everyone on the Avengers could lead a team themselves. "
I don't know.Too me it seems that Cap would be the better leader because of the caliber of people he lead.Not to many people can give a god orders and they would actually be followed.Cyclops had trouble controlling Wolverine at times.
"What is it that makes Cyclops a better leader than Cap..In your opinion?"
Just opinion. Cyclops actually led people who needed it. Everyone on the Avengers could lead a team themselves. "
That comment alone makes Cap better. Being the leader of people who are capable of leading is waaaayyyyy better then leading people that need to be lead. Wouldn't you agree King of Kings "
"That comment alone makes Cap better. Being the leader of people who are capable of leading is waaaayyyyy better then leading people that need to be lead. Wouldn't you agree King of Kings "
No I don't agree. Leading people who are leaders themselves means your not really leading at all. Cap wasn't the sole leader of the Avengers, it was more like a coalition. Iron Man led just as much as Cap. Cyclops is leading the future generation of heroes/mutants/x-men. Cap isnt teaching anyone on the Avengers anything they don't already know or couldn't do themselves. Were Cyclops leads, and teaches those who need and depend on him.
"Cyclops had trouble controlling Wolverine at times."
So did Cap. Iron Man had to step between them. That's not a very good example in my opinion. You do have a point about Cap leading a god. But I think if Cyclops had been asked to do the same he could have.
Scott is a natural leader. Logan is a natural loner.
Logan isn't a natural loner.He's a loner by circumstance.He leads a team now..so I don't see why people want to keep labeling him a loner...In fact he's been on more teams than half of Marvel."
C'mon, that is a lame argument, he is on so many teams to SELL comics!! Terrible argument. He has been called out in more books for not towing the line and being a loner than he's been on teams.
Scott is a natural leader. Logan is a natural loner.
Logan isn't a natural loner.He's a loner by circumstance.He leads a team now..so I don't see why people want to keep labeling him a loner...In fact he's been on more teams than half of Marvel."
C'mon, that is a lame argument, he is on so many teams to SELL comics!! Terrible argument. He has been called out in more books for not towing the line and being a loner than he's been on teams. "
He's a loner by circumstance.People actually like Logan.He ends up alone because people get killed or he has a falling out with them.
Gambler said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Cyclops had trouble controlling Wolverine at times."
So did Cap. Iron Man had to step between them. That's not a very good example in my opinion. You do have a point about Cap leading a god. But I think if Cyclops had been asked to do the same he could have. "
When? Oh and I don't think Cyclops could have led the Avengers or the American army.
When? Oh and I don't think Cyclops could have led the Avengers or the American army.
"
Right at the start of New Avengers. After they return from the Savage Land. And I disagree. The only reason he couldn't lead the American Army is cause he's a mutant. But other then that there's no reason why he couldn't lead them, or the Avengers. But speaking on that, I seriously doubt Cap could lead the X-Men.
He's a loner by circumstance.People actually like Logan.He ends up alone because people get killed or he has a falling out with them.
"
He would go off on drinking binges, and just vanish. I have read a half dozen titles where he does that. Team players dont just disappear, 'cause they're sad and want to get ripped. Good leaders wouldn't even dream of it.
When? Oh and I don't think Cyclops could have led the Avengers or the American army.
"
Right at the start of New Avengers. After they return from the Savage Land. And I disagree. The only reason he couldn't lead the American Army is cause he's a mutant. But other then that there's no reason why he couldn't lead them, or the Avengers. But speaking on that, I seriously doubt Cap could lead the X-Men. "
I think Cap more so than anyone else as a leader took a personal interest in individual members.Alot of good fighters ARE good fighters because Cap took the Initiative and trained them,whether they liked it or not.Cap made characters well rounded.Remember during Civil War when he broke Hawkeye's bow in the flashback and then kicked the sh#t out of him? He told Hawkeye he was going to teach him to fight and not just hide behind his abilities and trick weaponry.Now look at him.Cap did the same with Iron Man and She-Hulk and other characters who were only good for what their powers could do and nothing else.He was preparing them for the worst.How many heroes owe their level of fighting skill to Cap? How many characters admire him for his leadership? How many characters..that weren't Avengers did he teach to be good heroes? Cap left a lasting impression on alot of people.Cyclops on the other hand he's just the leader,nobody owes him gratitude for helping them find direction,how many people weren't good fighters until they met Cyclops? How many characters who aren't X-men ever mention Cyclops's leadership?
Batman is the best so far as i know. This guy could make even the most dysfunctional team working together with maximum effort....course all that is based on lies, manipulation and knows just when to push the right buttons lol
When? Oh and I don't think Cyclops could have led the Avengers or the American army.
"
Right at the start of New Avengers. After they return from the Savage Land. And I disagree. The only reason he couldn't lead the American Army is cause he's a mutant. But other then that there's no reason why he couldn't lead them, or the Avengers. But speaking on that, I seriously doubt Cap could lead the X-Men. "
I think Cap more so than anyone else as a leader took a personal interest in individual members.Alot of good fighters ARE good fighters because Cap took the Initiative and trained them,whether they liked it or not.Cap made characters well rounded.Remember during Civil War when he broke Hawkeye's bow in the flashback and then kicked the sh#t out of him? He told Hawkeye he was going to teach him to fight and not just hide behind his abilities and trick weaponry.Now look at him.Cap did the same with Iron Man and She-Hulk and other characters who were only good for what their powers could do and nothing else.He was preparing them for the worst.How many heroes owe their level of fighting skill to Cap? How many characters admire him for his leadership? How many characters..that weren't Avengers did he teach to be good heroes? Cap left a lasting impression on alot of people.Cyclops on the other hand he's just the leader,nobody owes him gratitude for helping them find direction,how many people weren't good fighters until they met Cyclops? How many characters who aren't X-men ever mention Cyclops's leadership?"
He's a loner by circumstance.People actually like Logan.He ends up alone because people get killed or he has a falling out with them.
"
He would go off on drinking binges, and just vanish. I have read a half dozen titles where he does that. Team players dont just disappear, 'cause they're sad and want to get ripped. Good leaders wouldn't even dream of it."
Going off to get ripped doesn't make you a loner.I'm sure Xavier didn't want a trashed Wolverine in the Mansion.That doesn't make him any less of a team player.Since he's been a leader he hasn't abandoned the team once.
When? Oh and I don't think Cyclops could have led the Avengers or the American army.
"
Right at the start of New Avengers. After they return from the Savage Land. And I disagree. The only reason he couldn't lead the American Army is cause he's a mutant. But other then that there's no reason why he couldn't lead them, or the Avengers. But speaking on that, I seriously doubt Cap could lead the X-Men. "
I think Cap more so than anyone else as a leader took a personal interest in individual members.Alot of good fighters ARE good fighters because Cap took the Initiative and trained them,whether they liked it or not.Cap made characters well rounded.Remember during Civil War when he broke Hawkeye's bow in the flashback and then kicked the sh#t out of him? He told Hawkeye he was going to teach him to fight and not just hide behind his abilities and trick weaponry.Now look at him.Cap did the same with Iron Man and She-Hulk and other characters who were only good for what their powers could do and nothing else.He was preparing them for the worst.How many heroes owe their level of fighting skill to Cap? How many characters admire him for his leadership? How many characters..that weren't Avengers did he teach to be good heroes? Cap left a lasting impression on alot of people.Cyclops on the other hand he's just the leader,nobody owes him gratitude for helping them find direction,how many people weren't good fighters until they met Cyclops? How many characters who aren't X-men ever mention Cyclops's leadership?"
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