who's smarter? reed richards,banner,stark,Dr strange,pym

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Tantani

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@kokemabb200: This list isn't true

Amadeus cho is formally number 7

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just_sayin

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@kokemabb200: Hey dude you are really selling Pym short. Reed gets the most press about his intelligence but think about their accomplishments for a moment:

When Reed wanted to fly he built a flying-car. Pym grew himself wings, not to mention surfboarding on the back of ants.

When Reed needs to travel to the other side of the planet, he gets in his fantasti-car. Pym transports in a second in his Pymporter, or infinite Avengers Mansion.

When Reed tried to keep Pym from getting into his home he set up his best tech to keep him out. Pym got in and got what he wanted.

When Reed tried to travel through sub-space he wound up in the negative zone. When Pym traveled to sub-space he got there. He found the microverse, and underspace. He even showed Reed where it was.

Reed created a prison that can hold hundreds in the negative zone. Pym created a prison that holds hundreds on a coffee table.

Reed has used his technology to explore a lot of places. He has racked up a lot of frequent flyer miles but not as many as Pym. Pym has traveled to virtually all of the dimensions in existence in Marvel continuity, including the realm of the Beyonders and overspace, where the cosmic entities hang out.

Reed has discovered new life forms. Pym created new life forms - A.I.

When Reed needs to invent something he rushes back to the baxter building to his lab. Pym keeps different labs for each discipline in his pocket.

To locate the other fantastic four members, Reed will shoot the fantasti-flare into the air to let people know where he is. Pym communicates with the ants, wasps, and other insects to find someone.

Reed made H.E.R.B.I.E. Pym made Ultron.

Pym hit Jan once when he was having a psychotic break. Mr Fantastic has hit Sue Storm more times than Mayweather has hit Pacquiao. And a lot harder too. Well, I guess Reed, does win that one.

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Noone301994

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#53  Edited By Noone301994

@kgb725 said:

@noone301994: Stark above Pym and Banner ? Your point is invalid. Banner has shut down Doom's armor while simultaneously out smarting him. Made a catalytic converter that Tony could only theorize. He has plenty of feats but you only look at statements smh

Where was Pym and Banner during the Incursion? While Gladiator's fleet was about to wipe out Earth? Who had to save the day with his intelligence again? Banner's only impressive intelligence feats come from smart characters making statements or from owning other smart people and that type of crap only recently started happening in modern comics. Funny how it never happened in any older ones?

@thedailybagel said:

@noone301994:

so somehow banner consistently outsmarting pretty much any other genius whenever he gets the chance is "bad writing" despite that being backed by feats he's done on his own and the other geniuses saying banner isn't one to mess with?

He's only done that in recent years. Can you provide a scan of him doing that anytime in the classic comics? Or even in the 90's? The writers have just randomly started writing him as some kind intelligent messiah. It's completely random. "Backed by feats he's done on his own." What kind of feats does he possibly have that put his intelligence at such a level that it makes it consistent and good writing for Banner to be casually and effortlessly outsmarting Reed Richards, Doom, or Stark?

But despite all lf that, banner turning doom into a brain damaged moron for months, outsmarting extremis enhanced tony twice as well as every other genius multiple times is bad writing? Despite near enough no low showings of his own?

Banner didn't turn Doom into a brain damaged moron. The Leader did. Maybe you can argue that Banner tricked Doom into absorbing the Cosmic Hulk's power, but that's reaching. Either way, that feat isn't his. When did he ever outsmart Extremis Tony?

Banner has pretty much the most hax tech ever in the gamma dome, which in a theoretical fight could shut down pretty much any suit stark brings, his Adamantium sentinels and his planet destroying doomsday weapon all at once just by banner flicking a switch, or a suit of armour (remind you of someone?) capable of stalemating Classic hulk and theorised as a bigger threat than hulk was. Combined with shielding that honestly makes Starks suits look like tin cans and you start to see he has feats of his own. Among other things he created a teleporter/time machine (like every other genius) and even has a tazer that can kill wolverine on a lower setting and keep Rulk down on a higher one, not to mention it even affects intangible enemy's.

The gamma dome has literally only been used once and on Doctor Doom, a guy who purposefully doesn't protect his armor against E.M.Ps because he's THAT cocky. I've asked you this before, what makes you think the 'gamma dome' isn't just some kind of gamma powered EMP device? Tony has shielded his armors from EMP's for years. Regardless, even if you somehow provide evidence that it isn't an EMP device, it still might not work on Tony's armors. At least not his recent liquid tech ones. The ones that have been stated to be so advanced that they were still being used 1,000 years in the future. Doom's armor simply isn't THAT advanced. So saying "Gamma dome >>>> Doom armor >>>> Iron Man armor" is invalid. The rest of those feats are hardly worth mentioning. They're impressive, but again, none of that puts them at a level that Banner's fanboys or writers put him at. He's smarter than Reed Richards?

Sure bud.

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GhostRavage

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@conner_wolf: Banner has consistently humiliated Stark in smarts to the point of Stark questioning himself and telling to himself "You're still rich" meaning he already discarded the possibility of being smarter than Banner, Stark is like 4th or 5th, he's not close to Banner at all and even during their first moments together Stark was already jealous of Banner.

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Kokemabb200

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#55  Edited By Kokemabb200

@yify: And those are all great inventions, no doubt. But it doesn't disprove the scans or anything I said. Eternity basically said Hank stretches science to the point of magic, for no reason other than he can. AFTER saying Reed is smarter than him, but due to his unparalleled search for knowledge. Hank is not as smart as Reed, you can't just assert that without there being a scan that says so, because in Comicvine: scans >> conjecture.

However, as I said earlier, Hank is easily the most creative in how he uses his knowledge and understanding of science. Every other scientist is more utilitarian in their approach to science, especially Reed who only builds and designs technology for specific goals. Hank, by virtue of being more imaginative doesn't just settle on an invention to meet his needs, but tries to push the envelope a bit.

Hank created the Infinite Avengers Mansion; a headquarters capable of transporting any being from one place to another, regardless of current position.

In addition to the Mansions' spatial transporting abilities, it also acts as a way of maintaining the molecular integrity of Jan, who exists in alternate space. Hank used the mansion to work towards resurrecting Jan after her death during the Skrull Invasion.

Yes and no. The Infinite Mansion was limited to only teleporting individuals to places where he had installed a door, although he had nnumerous doors he didn't have one literally everywhere. And as cool as it is, Reed (along with many others) created actual teleporters that don't require you to hop between a dimension before taking you to where you're needed.

Furthermore, concerning the Mansion's properties of keeping Janet alive: Reed kept a dead Ben Grimm's body that had a hole through it stable without the need for an expansive dimension devoted to it.

Hank has developed Holographic Technology capable of fooling the Security of the Baxter Building and the sensors of Ultron.

Reed's security systems have been circumnavigated by Kitty Pryde in the past, for all the bluster they get they are only as reliable as the author. As for Ultron, that's just genuinely impressive.

He created an alternate reality for deceased individual's consciousness to dwell in that simulated a perfect existence for them. Effectively creating "Heaven" for his friend Bill Foster.

Reed has created numerous pocket dimensions before, so not that big a deal. But in regards to how he handles the death of Black Goliath, when Reed's friend was dead, he used a mess of technology to force a spark of life back into Ben, then physically travel to the actual heaven to retrieve Ben's soul from The One Above All.

Side note, for all the abstracts that Pym has come across, has he managed to visit, or even see TOAA?

Oh yeah. He also created Ultron.

I'm entirely unsure where you got this as a good feat from. Beast, Bruce Banner, Reed Richards, Dr. Doom, Tony Stark, and Amadeus Cho have all built AI's in the past? Do you know the only difference between the them and Hank? They were smart enough to control their creations, and they didn't produce maniacal, egoistic mass murderers, In other words, their's were successful. Hank modeled the AI after his own brainwaves, and it is revealed that the reason why Ultron is as evil as he is, is because of that fact. Hank's bi-polar disorder coupled with his inadequacy issues, and need to see humanity suffer for the perceived wrongdoings enacted on him where the reason Ultron became what it is. It's just an expression of Hank's darker personality and aspirations. Hank didn't make Ultron as smart as he is. He is a computer, and could amass literally infinite knowledge on his own accord. It could be analogous to Hank dropping an acorn into the dirt. forgetting about it and coming back several years to see a massive oak tree. Pym didn't instill Ultron's intellect, but he put it the appropriate situation to become what it did from its own accord.

No Caption Provided

Again, all nice feats. That's why I have him at three. But there are dozens of scans saying Reed is the smartest man on Earth, and one particular scan (which I've already provided) has ETERNITY (aka. the all-knowing and all-encompassing embodiment of the universe) explicitly saying "Reed is smarter than you". But if you could find a scan somewhere that explicitly has Eternity recanting what he said then I would happily withdraw my opinion. Until then, you're wrong about this.

EDIT: Hank Pym himself says Reed is smarter than him. How can you argue against that?

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GhostRavage

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@noone301994: Banner's mind on top of being rather equal to Reed, Pym and Doom, is so evolved it works as Amadeus Cho's and makes the same calculations as him unconsciously.

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thedailybagel

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#57 thedailybagel  Moderator

@noone301994: that's because he's pretty much only just started actually getting time to do anything, seeing as back in classic days prior to PAD, it was pretty much just banner moping around all the time never getting anything done because he's always the hulk, and during PADs run the calmer hulks took over like grey hulk and proffesor hulk, so banner never got any exposure. It's only in recent years with paks run that he's come to terms with the hulk and decided to stop trying to cure him, themes that were rampant throughtout waids, aarrons and paks runs.

It was pretty evident banner tricked him since he was 100% aware of what he was doing and even started mocking doom. He outsmarted extremis tony by making a code he couldn't hack, I'll have a loo for the issue.

It's been used several times, once he used it to cover a city sized area and it disintergrayed pretty much anything that tried to leave or enter it. Furthermore, regardless of dooms armour, the room was also covered in the tech of various members of intelligencia so dooms tech wasn't alone. But while we're here, has doom said he doesn't use anti emp devices in recent years?

Could you show me his liquid tech armour capabilites as well please?

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makhai

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Reed Richards' knowledge of science = Dr. Strange's Knowledge of Magic

Just in regards to Science, it's Reed > Banner > Stark > Strange

Shameless plug. check out this list: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/kokemabb200/lists/smartest-characters-marvel-sciences/58557/

Smartest Characters Marvel [Sciences]

1. Mr. Fantastic
2. Doctor Doom
3. Hank Pym
4. Black Panther
5. Hulk
6. Kang
7. Iron Man
8. Leader
9. High Evolutionary
10. Valeria Richards
11. Beast
12. Amadeus Cho
13. Blue Marvel
14. Spider-Man
15. Mad Thinker

Nice list. How did you get it to look like that?

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Thunderbol2

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I totally agree with the list...... I mean why wasn't Iron Man helping build the life raft in Secret Wars?? Because he isnt smart enough ha ha derp

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Rag_man

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Reed is the science gizmo king.

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SmashCountdown

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When did Blue Marvel become one of the greatest minds in the MU?

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SoA

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its reed richards at number #1, i personally feel doom is above him by a marginal hair (DOOM IS ABOVE ALL) banner is under reed in 2nd/3rd with stark and pym tie after that then Tchalla, blue marvel then somwhere on the bottom beast. not saying he is dumb but compared to the rest yes he is .

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Kokemabb200

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#63  Edited By Kokemabb200
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makhai

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@kokemabb200: Quick question though: I read once that Valeria Richards was said to be more intelligent than her father. Has this been proven false or did you put her low on the list for a lack of feats?

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Kokemabb200

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@just_sayin: Hey, sorry if it seems like I'm undercutting Pym's genius, I honestly think he is ridiculously skilled and often under-used. I was never arguing against him being a genius. Just that he isn't as smart as Reed Richards. There are numerous scans that say Reed is the smartest person on Earth and Eternity even says that Reed is smarter than Hank.

The feats you listed are in line with what Eternity said about Hank, He may not be smarter than Reed, but he is far more creative and uses his knowledge if more diverse ways. Every other genius has a utilitarian approach to science, but Pym does not. His approach is to stretch the capabilities in new and unique ways, often times the things he does are things others wouldn't think to do--not because they couldn't--but because they often lack the imagination.

If you re-visit the list I have Hank placed at three only because Doom is equal to Reed in intellect. Otherwise, if this were just heroes then he would be directly behind Richards.

I totally agree with the list...... I mean why wasn't Iron Man helping build the life raft in Secret Wars?? Because he isnt smart enough ha ha derp

Thanks for agreeing with the list, but Stark not helping was sue to his "Superior Iron-Man" phase where he was being a douche. I think they would've gladly accepted his help otherwise.

@tantani said:

@kokemabb200: This list isn't true

Amadeus cho is formally number 7

Not really, I remember him saying he was. But his list excluded the likes of Hank Pym so I'm not sure how viable it is. I think it served as him saying he considered himself the 7th smartest, but it was his opinion and not objective, here's the scan:

No Caption Provided

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Kokemabb200

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#66  Edited By Kokemabb200

@makhai: I definitely tried to placed her where her feats put her. The scan had Valeria saying she was smarter than Reed, but people like Doom, Mole Man, the Wizard, Kang and Mad Thinker (probably many others) have all purported to be smarter than Reed at one point.

But here's the scan:

No Caption Provided

I'm not sure where it is. but I remember there being a scan where someone says Valeria has the potential to be smarter than Reed.

I think is she had more showings, she would probably rise higher on the list.

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Thunderbol2

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@kokemabb200: She and her brother a intensely smarter and she helps build the life raft which i think is a showing.

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Kokemabb200

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@smashcountdown said:

When did Blue Marvel become one of the greatest minds in the MU?

He was able to create a stable anti-matter reactor, something both Reed and Tony had only theorized, and was able to figure out a way to de-power and defeat Anti-Man when neither Reed, Tony, or Pym could. His specialty is with anti-matter but he also has a well rounded knowledge base, and seems fairly gifted in physics and energy and molecular manipulation as well as dimensional exploration

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Kokemabb200

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#69  Edited By Kokemabb200

@thunderbol2: Franklin is nowhere near as smart as either Valeria or Reed. It's arguable that he may become smarter than Reed when he's older, but he's also immortal so I'm not definitive on that. As for Valeria, she helped coordinate the building of the raft with the rest of the Future Foundation (all of which are students of Reed's). Them helping to build it isn't as impressive as it being designed by Reed and T'Challa.

Just like the people responsible for assembling an phone can't be as accredited as those who designed it.

I think Valeria, when she comes back in time with Franklin to help stop the Mad Celestials is smarter than Reed. But that's her in the future, as of now she's still just a child.

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kgb725

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@noone301994: You do realize he usually just tried to cure the Hulk and nothing else right ? And you do know that some of the Hulks' feats count as his own as well

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AtheistKnowledge

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#71  Edited By AtheistKnowledge

God I hate the wanking of Banner's intelligence. The sad thing is even the writers have been doing it in recent years. And they don't even do it by showing Banner do clever stuff or make him look really smart in his own rite. Instead, they just show him getting complimented by other smart heroes or show him intellectually owning other smart heroes through some bad writing or plot device. "Richards has admitted that Banner is smarter" Christ... Based on what?

And then the fans... Ugh.. "Imagine if he hadn't turned into the Hulk! Herp derp. His intelligence feats would even dwarf Richards'!" Right.. Keep telling yourselves that... I doubt even his best feat of intellect comes close to what Stark, Pym, Doom, or Richards can casually come up with.

Of the people mentioned in the title, here's my list in order:

Richards

Doom (can't exclude him)

Stark

Pym (or him)

Banner

Stephen

Triggered.

I could go into detail here but you are a smart fellow and hopefully you can agree with me(whether we agree that Banner is smarter then this or that guy) unlike most people here he has had a very limited time of having to show his intelligence, because of obvious reasons.

However if you are looking for feats in his Indestructible Hulk series he build a bomb that was suppose to be the cure for the Terrigan mist and he only had 24 hours to do so. In the end the bomb failed but Pym, Stark and Hank Mccoy all noted that if they only gave him a little bit more time he would have managed it and they where highly impressed by the bomb itself remarking how none of them would have thought of it or pulled of a cure themselves.

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Zerdn

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I really don't see how it can be argued that Stark is smarter than Banner. Unless of course we're going by quantitative approach, meaning number of inventions.

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mr_ingenuity

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#73 mr_ingenuity  Moderator

Don't know why Strange is here. Banner is only in competition with Pym & Stark but it usually is Pym or Stark then Banner. While Reed stomps all.

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mr_ingenuity

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#74 mr_ingenuity  Moderator

@thedailybagel:

But despite all lf that, banner turning doom into a brain damaged moron for months, outsmarting extremis enhanced tony twice as well as every other genius multiple times is bad writing? Despite near enough no low showings of his own?

When has any of this happened?

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thedailybagel

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#75 thedailybagel  Moderator

@mr_ingenuity: most of it was paks run, the latter occured once in waids one as well IIRC.

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jrupert1

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#76  Edited By jrupert1

Reed might be regarded as the overall smartest but when it comes purely to the field of science, Pym has him beat.

Also, if this is about science and technology Strange, brilliant of a surgeon as he was, has no reason to be here counted among them.

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mr_ingenuity

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#77  Edited By mr_ingenuity  Moderator

@thedailybagel: I remember the Intelligencia poisoning the energy Doom absorbed.

And I don't remember Extremis Stark having any feuds with Banner considering Stark lost the extremis virus in secret invasion. I'm sure (although I willing to be wrong) Bleeding Edge never fought Banner.

I'm doubtful Banner has taken on the more enhanced versions of Stark.

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InsidiousX13

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Reed Richards Is officially is the smartest earth bound character in Marvel.

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XiiX

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@yify said:

Yeah the 1st scan is basically a d!ck measuring contest, nothing here....moving on.

Haha, I always thought the same thing.

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XiiX

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Who is smarter is not a cut and dry subject as people seem to be thinking. "Smartness" by definition is an abstract notion which by definition can't always be ranked in a particular order specially against peers.

That being said the title of world's smartest has normally been deign to Reed Richards. How much would the title count, I am unsure.

@zerdn said:

This really depends on what you consider smart, and if smart = intelligent to you, also meaning what you understand to be intelligence.

I personally see intelligence as the multilayered process of apprehending large amounts of information fast and devising a plan that is both efficient and effective to respond to the situation at hand. The success of processes are usually a mix of intelligence + discipline (executing the plan without hick-ups and distractions) + perseverance (not giving up and being willing to reapprehend information once you fail, and trying to fix the previous mistakes).

Meaning, that taking out discipline and perseverance, the smartest would be who can understand better situations and come up with theories to explain them and fix them.

In that regard, Pym single-handedly understood a whole new phenomenon of particle physics and shortly after discovering it, also devised a way to manipulate them for his use. I am unaware if Banner's breakthroughs with gamma radiation are that significant, but he's certainly a recognised authority and he should be greatly considered. I am unfamiliar with Richards' technical feats but his plans to consistently be able to face Doom's plans in spite of having severe disadvantages in 1-on-1 combat speaks highly of him. Finding a way to depower Surfer's board is really no small feat, nor is being able to understand quite rapidly the dimension of the threat Galactus represented, and even devising a way to counter him.

I'd say the least impressive is Stark really. I'm not sure if he even invented the Arc reactor tech (that'd be a real plus to him) or if he simply learnt it from his father. For the rest, his accomplishments are more about accumulative engineering than real discovery or qualitative leaps, and he's never been a real breakthrough strategist.

Doom is hard to judge since a significant portion of his capabilities are also magic, which is something that is not about cerebral power, but rather spiritual attunement (although spiritual depth is also a form of intelligence in its way). But the strategic placing of Doombots (themselves a real marvel of engineering with no parallel in their complexity), the way to seize powers from entities such as Silver Surfer and Beyonder, really is something else.

To be honest, the list the other poster added is quite good. I can't say I really think Richards is smarter than Doom, after all both of them have beaten each other in different challenges (only Doom was able to find a way to save Sue while giving birth after all), but I'd place both of them high regardless of position. Pym and his discoveries are nothing short of incredible, yet he seems to take long periods of time to utilize them, so he should come third. Why T'challa is above Banner, I'm not sure. He is certainly capable of outsmarting Stark, and he seems to understand better than anyone vibranium, but again, I'd agree they are numbers 4-5.

To sum-up, the list is good as it is when it comes to common sense-information processing-ingenuity.

If we add in spiritual and theological understanding, it will easily be Doom as number 1, with Strange as number 2.

Best/most accurate answers so far.

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Noone301994

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#82  Edited By Noone301994

@thedailybagel said:

@noone301994:

that's because he's pretty much only just started actually getting time to do anything, seeing as back in classic days prior to PAD, it was pretty much just banner moping around all the time never getting anything done because he's always the hulk, and during PADs run the calmer hulks took over like grey hulk and proffesor hulk, so banner never got any exposure. It's only in recent years with paks run that he's come to terms with the hulk and decided to stop trying to cure him, themes that were rampant throughtout waids, aarrons and paks runs.

Such a lame excuse... Banner wasn't always the Hulk. Where were his 'smartest man in the world' feats back then?

It was pretty evident banner tricked him since he was 100% aware of what he was doing and even started mocking doom. He outsmarted extremis tony by making a code he couldn't hack, I'll have a loo for the issue.

I just re-read the scuffle. He didn't trick him at all. I thought that maybe, since my memory of the fight was a little fuzzy, that Banner controlled the Hulk-bot and purposefully attacked Doom knowing that he'd absorb the robot's cosmic energy which would in turn make him dumb, but he didn't. If he did, then I can see how you can reach and say, "Banner still somewhat played a role in owning Doom", but again, he didn't. He had nothing to do with what happened to Doom. The Leader was controlling the Cosmic Hulk AND he used the dumb ray on Doom. Banner was just gloating about how Doom fell for the Leader's trick (MODOK also helped).

The instance with Banner outhacking Stark is exactly what I'm talking about when referring to the writers wanking Banner in recent comics. It's just ridiculous. You realize that Stark is the best hacker on Marvel Earth right? He's hacked Reed Richards' tech, Doom's tech, Kree, Skrull, and even once overrode the High Evolutionary's tech, yet in that story, somehow, out of nowhere, he's a better hacker than Stark is? I mean talk about out of the blue! When has Banner ever shown the ability to be an expert hacker? Let alone outhack arguably the best hacker on Marvel Earth? And they didn't even make it a close match either. Stark admits that he got his a$$ kicked! Lmao. It's just ludicrous... Also, Iron Man didn't have Extremis when he dawned his black and gold suit.

It's been used several times, once he used it to cover a city sized area and it disintergrayed pretty much anything that tried to leave or enter it. Furthermore, regardless of dooms armour, the room was also covered in the tech of various members of intelligencia so dooms tech wasn't alone.

But there was no other tech within the area of his gamma dome. Only Doom's and Banner's. In fact, the Cosmic Hulk was outside of the dome. He eventually turned his dome off to let it back in to continue attacking Doom.

But while we're here, has doom said he doesn't use anti emp devices in recent years?

He's never stated it, but Storm has been able to short circuit his suit before with lightning bolts. He's a really arrogant and powerful man. I assume he doesn't care to protect himself from electrical magnetic disruption because he still has magic to fall back on. Hell, that's evident even when Banner disrupts his armor. He didn't care. He still had spells. But I'll show you the scans:

Could you show me his liquid tech armour capabilites as well please?

Well firstly, Iron Man was inspired by Iron Lad's liquid neuro-kinetic tech and then he replicated it perfectly. This was in the Extremis days. After Iron Man got rid of his Extremis suit he moved right on to the liquid Bleeding-Edge armor.

This scan explains Iron Man's role in the liquid tech:

No Caption Provided

It's also implied that Stark was the one to actually invent the liquid tech. "It turns out, it was amazing because I built it. And the tech I invented here, today, is still in use all those centuries from now."

More like around 10 centuries from now but you know... Tomato, tomato...

Here are some capabilities of his Bleeding-Edge liquid tech:

Armor recedes from the hollow of his bones. These scans alone prove that his tech is more advanced than Doom's. But I want to post more.
Can morph a repulsor cannon from his own arms, can morph clothing and armor with his tech, his tech allows him super hearing, and again another example of his tech receding from his body (descriptions were all in order of scans).
Not to mention the power source for this liquid tech is considered a man-made star.
Not to mention the power source for this liquid tech is considered a man-made star.

When Stark shows Reed how much 'juice' he's pumping into his head, Reed literally takes it all in and it's so much that his head expands and stretches.

No Caption Provided

@atheistknowledge said:

Triggered.

I could go into detail here but you are a smart fellow and hopefully you can agree with me(whether we agree that Banner is smarter then this or that guy) unlike most people here he has had a very limited time of having to show his intelligence, because of obvious reasons.

However if you are looking for feats in his Indestructible Hulk series he build a bomb that was suppose to be the cure for the Terrigan mist and he only had 24 hours to do so. In the end the bomb failed but Pym, Stark and Hank Mccoy all noted that if they only gave him a little bit more time he would have managed it and they where highly impressed by the bomb itself remarking how none of them would have thought of it or pulled of a cure themselves.

No offense, but aren't you overdramatizing how Pym, Stark, and McCoy reacted to the bomb? They (Stark and McCoy) admitted that using chronometal radiation was brilliant, but they never said that if he had more time he could have done it. Nor did they say that they wouldn't be able to do it themselves.

@kgb725 said:

@noone301994: You do realize he usually just tried to cure the Hulk and nothing else right ? And you do know that some of the Hulks' feats count as his own as well

Excuses, excuses. So just because he was 'too busy with a cure' that explains why he hasn't done anything notable in the classic days? What about before turning into the Hulk? Where are his "smarter than Reed Richards" feats of intelligence before he became the Hulk? If Banner has always been so smart then why is it that only in recent comics do intelligent characters acknowledge Banner as being "smarter than them" like Richards apparently did? You really don't think that's B.S.? There was even an instance where Banner, in his own book, somehow effortlessly stomped Stark in a hacking contest. Like.. what?? Iron Man has out-hacked Doom, Richards, the Kree, the Skrulls, the High Evolutionary, yet there, in that random instance he just became a hacking expert out of the blue? You really don't see that as writers wanking his intelligence? Or having Stark being 'intimidated' by Banner's simple words (un-true ones, might I add)?

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@kokemabb200: are you trying to say that freaking black panther is smarter then stark???? Tony should be second or third on the list not 7th

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Reed>Banner>>>Pym>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Stark

I don't know where Strange fits into this.

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@noone301994: if you read thanos vs hulk#2 banner was able to adapt and use annihiluses virtual technology on the fly, to help hulk fight thanos. Thanos remarked that banner was one of the most intelligent beings of earth.

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mr. bean is the smartest

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@phantomjolt: I'm not ignorant to all of Banner's impressive intelligence feats. I'm just saying how stupid it is that all of a sudden the writers are portraying him as this intellectual messiah in the Marvel universe. Why didn't he ever have feats like those before? These "smarter than Richards" feats just started happening a couple of years ago. Before that, as in, for a majority of Marvel comic history (1962-2012ish), his best feat of intelligence would have been creating a cutting edge gamma bomb or something.

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#88 thedailybagel  Moderator

@noone301994: it's not a lame excuse, being the hulk was part of his character prior to paks run and often times he spent entire issues running around as the green guy, whenever he came out hed work on a cure. That was how banner was treated back then. It's only just started happening in recent years because banner only came to terms with hulk in paks run (2005 onwards) and decided that it's a waste of time trying to cure him, so wanted to focus on other things. That's why. It's not a lame excuse, it's literally the reason banner only just started doing worthwhile things.

We don't know many of banners feats prior to the gamma bomb that even stark was impressed by (add to the fact that stark was envious of banner throughout their teenage years and he himself had only made weaponry up to that point in time, weapons that banners bomb could surpass). Aside from that he's made a suit called the red robot, I'm not 100% sure if it was before or after becoming hulk but it was able to go toe to toe with classic hulk and not recieve a scratch, so performed better than most of tonys suits did.

Eh, I'll have to re-read the instance myself but banner just knowing about what they were doing is a good feat.

I don't find it ridiculous at all to be honest, banner was finally getting recognition for his intelligence and that was just another showing of how smart he really was when not worrying about hulk. Moreover it wouldn't be the first time he's outsmarted other geniuses seeing as he had to save all of them after they all got hulked out.

I just did some research and doom does carry anti emp devices, I don't know why or how storm short circuited him but his suit has been able to resist a high tech Wakandan emp, presumably designed by black panther himself. So banner disabling it is a good feat. And the fact that he had to take down the gamma dome to let the cosmic hulk in just shows how potent it is, seeing as it would have taken that down as well.

Doom does use anti emps.

Yea, his armour does seem very high tech. Granted, just because he invented the tech in the first place doesn't mean that it's the exact same models being used in the future, there are mostly likely advancements made to it and whatnot, but regardless, it still is a very good feat. Although banner has also genetically engineered animals whilst he was crazy and seperated from hulk that could take poundings from an angry hulk that shook the entire planet, and even after hulk finished with them they were fine (but stuck) in the core of the earth. And that barely took him a few days to do.

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Of the people mentioned in the title, here's my list in order:

Richards

Doom (can't exclude him)

Stark

Pym (or him)

Banner

Stephen

I would put Stark, Pym, and Banner very close together though.

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#92  Edited By Noone301994

@thedailybagel said:

@noone301994:

it's not a lame excuse, being the hulk was part of his character prior to paks run and often times he spent entire issues running around as the green guy, whenever he came out hed work on a cure. That was how banner was treated back then. It's only just started happening in recent years because banner only came to terms with hulk in paks run (2005 onwards) and decided that it's a waste of time trying to cure him, so wanted to focus on other things. That's why. It's not a lame excuse, it's literally the reason banner only just started doing worthwhile things.

It is one because it's partially untrue. Banner wasn't ALWAYS trying to find a cure, if that was true he couldn't have had time to build the Red Robot in the classic days. He did have potential and enough time to build something great or do something brilliant, but he never did. Stan Lee created the Hulk/Bruce Banner and he never wrote him as an intellect far greater than Reed Richards like you, and every other Hulk fanboy here is implying, so why should I not complain about it when they randomly attempt to do it in current comics?

I think this quote by Doctor Doom explains Banner in a nutshell:

No Caption Provided

He used the Hulk as an excuse (similar to how everyone in this thread is doing) for his 'supposed' burden. Makes a lot of sense to me.

We don't know many of banners feats prior to the gamma bomb that even stark was impressed by (add to the fact that stark was envious of banner throughout their teenage years and he himself had only made weaponry up to that point in time, weapons that banners bomb could surpass).

Stan Lee and Jack Kirby never showed Bruce Banner as having these extraordinary supergenius feats of intelligence because that's not how they intended him to be. You really think if I asked Stan Lee who the smartest superhero is he'd say Bruce Banner? Also, give me a break with the "Stark was envious of him". How do you know that? Was it written by some dolt Hulk fanboy writer last year or a little bit earlier than that? What a joke. If you read Iron Man's first comics you actually see how spectacular his intellect really was based on his feats (creating anti-gravity machines that could move mountains, creating tech that could effortlessly drill to the center of Earth, disintegrator beams that could destroy cities with a brief flash of light, etc.) and that Banner wasn't even an afterthought to him. Even when Banner or Hulk were in the comics with him, the narrator or Stark never showed any signs whatsoever of jealousy or intense admiration like they do currently. That crap was literally just made up out of nowhere recently to make Banner look good. Like when Banner "intimidated" Stark and he had to leave the room because he couldn't handle it. Ridiculous. Especially when the statements Banner was making about Stark being "one-sided" in his inventions were completely false. "You only build what you know". Apparently creating a new element, an AIDS vaccine, time machines, skin cell sized cameras, etc. All of that is just building what he already knows apparently... Everyone acts like he just builds armors or repulsor technology..

The stupid current Hulk fanboy writers are trying to make Banner a powerhouse intellect and it's sad because it's come out of nowhere and they mostly have to cut down other smart characters to show how smart Banner 'really is'.

Aside from that he's made a suit called the red robot, I'm not 100% sure if it was before or after becoming hulk but it was able to go toe to toe with classic hulk and not recieve a scratch,

The Red Robot receives it's power from absorbing gamma radiation. That's the only reason why it was able to do so well against the Hulk. It's almost the same situation as with Iron Man's Thorbuster suit against King Thor. It absorbed Thor's Odin Force power to amp his suit further. Just like the Red Robot.

so performed better than most of tonys suits did.

Iron Man's armors (classic ones) did always get damaged by classic Hulk, but it's not like he one-shotted Tony. In fact, he simply couldn't. It always took more than a handful of hits to damage his suits and that's impressive. Those suits had above nuke durability. They could tank blasts from Silver Surfer, Doctor Doom, hits from Graviton, a mountain busting machine (not even nukes can bust mountains), Count Nefaria, a multiple-mountain busting blast that was felt on the other side of the world, etc. His classic suits were far more powerful than you give them credit for. But, again, the Red Robot was built specifically to take on the Hulk and by absorbing the gamma radiation. Iron Man's suits weren't. I think that counts for something.

Eh, I'll have to re-read the instance myself but banner just knowing about what they were doing is a good feat.

But not as good as you are implying... He didn't trick Doctor Doom whereas Stark has. Many times.

I don't find it ridiculous at all to be honest, banner was finally getting recognition for his intelligence and that was just another showing of how smart he really was when not worrying about hulk. Moreover it wouldn't be the first time he's outsmarted other geniuses seeing as he had to save all of them after they all got hulked out.

Again, that sort of stuff has only started happening in recent comics and I think Greg Pak is the one to blame for this new trend of writing Banner as the supergenius that makes everyone look bad. Could you really look me in the eye and tell me that you don't think that Pak is a fanboy of Hulk? Or that he doesn't have a bias for the Hulk? I mean that stuff is so evident in his stories...

Doom does use anti emps. I just did some research and doom does carry anti emp devices, I don't know why or how storm short circuited him but his suit has been able to resist a high tech Wakandan emp, presumably designed by black panther himself. So banner disabling it is a good feat.

Do you have scans of him resisting the Wakandan EMP's? It just makes no sense that a lightning bolt could short circuit his suit (twice), but he is resistant to a wakandan electromagnetic pulse lol.

And the fact that he had to take down the gamma dome to let the cosmic hulk in just shows how potent it is, seeing as it would have taken that down as well.

Well the Cosmic Hulk was still temporarily incapacitated after Doom absorbed its cosmic energy. Banner just opened up the shield right as it recovered so it could attack Doom. Although Banner's gamma dome did then proceed to tank a blast from the Cosmic Hulk after it grabbed Doom, but still. The whole point is that Doom's tech was the only one that was disrupted in the dome.

Yea, his armour does seem very high tech. Granted, just because he invented the tech in the first place doesn't mean that it's the exact same models being used in the future, there are mostly likely advancements made to it and whatnot, but regardless, it still is a very good feat. Although banner has also genetically engineered animals whilst he was crazy and seperated from hulk that could take poundings from an angry hulk that shook the entire planet, and even after hulk finished with them they were fine (but stuck) in the core of the earth. And that barely took him a few days to do.

Me mentioning it wasn't really a d!ck measuring contest, it was to prove that his tech is far superior and more advanced than Doom's tech and that the gamma dome might not work on something so bleeding edge like Tony's suit. But yeah, I guess it's an impressive intellect feat too.

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Reed

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Richards, Doom and Pym.

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@zerdn said:

This really depends on what you consider smart, and if smart = intelligent to you, also meaning what you understand to be intelligence.

I personally see intelligence as the multilayered process of apprehending large amounts of information fast and devising a plan that is both efficient and effective to respond to the situation at hand. The success of processes are usually a mix of intelligence + discipline (executing the plan without hick-ups and distractions) + perseverance (not giving up and being willing to reapprehend information once you fail, and trying to fix the previous mistakes).

Meaning, that taking out discipline and perseverance, the smartest would be who can understand better situations and come up with theories to explain them and fix them.

In that regard, Pym single-handedly understood a whole new phenomenon of particle physics and shortly after discovering it, also devised a way to manipulate them for his use. I am unaware if Banner's breakthroughs with gamma radiation are that significant, but he's certainly a recognised authority and he should be greatly considered. I am unfamiliar with Richards' technical feats but his plans to consistently be able to face Doom's plans in spite of having severe disadvantages in 1-on-1 combat speaks highly of him. Finding a way to depower Surfer's board is really no small feat, nor is being able to understand quite rapidly the dimension of the threat Galactus represented, and even devising a way to counter him.

I'd say the least impressive is Stark really. I'm not sure if he even invented the Arc reactor tech (that'd be a real plus to him) or if he simply learnt it from his father. For the rest, his accomplishments are more about accumulative engineering than real discovery or qualitative leaps, and he's never been a real breakthrough strategist.

Doom is hard to judge since a significant portion of his capabilities are also magic, which is something that is not about cerebral power, but rather spiritual attunement (although spiritual depth is also a form of intelligence in its way). But the strategic placing of Doombots (themselves a real marvel of engineering with no parallel in their complexity), the way to seize powers from entities such as Silver Surfer and Beyonder, really is something else.

To be honest, the list the other poster added is quite good. I can't say I really think Richards is smarter than Doom, after all both of them have beaten each other in different challenges (only Doom was able to find a way to save Sue while giving birth after all), but I'd place both of them high regardless of position. Pym and his discoveries are nothing short of incredible, yet he seems to take long periods of time to utilize them, so he should come third. Why T'challa is above Banner, I'm not sure. He is certainly capable of outsmarting Stark, and he seems to understand better than anyone vibranium, but again, I'd agree they are numbers 4-5.

To sum-up, the list is good as it is when it comes to common sense-information processing-ingenuity.

If we add in spiritual and theological understanding, it will easily be Doom as number 1, with Strange as number 2.

Holy s**t! I was going to write something, but you took the words out of my mouth.

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This thread is full of Banner tolling who is not close to Reed (neither is Stark or Pym).

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They're all smart in their own different fields.

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@asgardianbrony: I think you are underestimating Reed. He was always in a debate with Doom on who's smartest.

Feats:

  • Owen Reece said that Reed would be much more creative with his powers andwould use them much better than Doom.
  • Said always to be smartest man in the world by people in the world.
  • Stark said that Reed is smarter than him.
  • Inteligencia (MODOK and Leader) called Reed smartest if not second smartest in the world.
  • Escaped the Celestials whp tried to kill him.
  • Created a time machine which can chance the time stream without creating alternate realities.
  • Created a portal to negative zone.
  • Was able to use Celestial Tech.
  • Escaped the dying universe.
  • Created quantum device which can generate universal energy.
  • Was able to understand Vibranium (at least on some level)
  • Outsmarted Doom and beating him time and time again
  • Created a device which can bend space itself
  • Outsmarted Pym
  • Understands Quantium Physics
  • Understands Cosmic Energy
  • Understands Pym Patricles almost as good as Pym
  • Created a device to locate every verinsion of himlfin the Multiverse and taallk to them whilee all of them are still in their own universe
  • Device which allows him to travel to Multiversal nexus
  • Said by Galactus and Eternity to be smartest hero in the world
  • And much more