The title aptly describes the thread.
Who is the strongest, most powerful character Carnage can defeat in a fight to the death?
@noone1996: maybe classic but they're kinda weak now and way to slow to ever touch Cletus/Norman (depending if current or not). They used to be decent but they are all dumber than a box of rocks. Plus their physicals are right around his anyway minus speed and agility which he lolstomps.
@leeharalsonjr: No, they are just as strong as their classic incarnations. Their stats and physicals are hilariously above Carnage. Wrecker has tagged Northstar who is a speedster much faster than Carnage:
This happened in the 90s I believe.
In that very same storyline, they were tanking hits from and hurting Sasquatch who has Thing/Red Hulk level stats.
Most people who don't have super durability, extremely heightened reflexes/speed or some ability to keep him at a distance, get cut to pieces pretty quickly.
This but as far as heightened reflexes go he can actually go against that somewhat, as he outclasses Spidey heavily.
@leeharalsonjr: Not that much stronger? Really? These guys consistently hurt high tiers like Hercules, Hulk, and Thor. Not to mention Namor, Thing, Colossus, etc. Those are characters WAY more durable than anyone Carnage has ever harmed. Hell, he wouldn't even be able to hurt any of them. Luke Cage is nowhere even remotely comparable to them. He's essentially another Spider-Man level street leveler. Owning him isn't really that impressive. Especially since, ultimately, Carnage still could never pierce his skin (which has been pierced by much less like diamond tipped blades and lasers). Spider-Man and Venom are also just street levelers. They may be higher end ones, but they pale in comparison to the Wrecking Crew. Also, everything that happened in Carnage USA was due to him being amped. I believe he's stronger when he eats more people or something to that effect. He cannot consistently take control of bricks like Thing.
@noone1996: He currently sits at around 90 tons strength. That should be more than enough combined with his speed , agility, and tentacles to take down the wrecking crew. Venom has been able to go toe to toe with bricks before without taking much damage, no reason a stronger deadly smybiote shouldnt. Especially since the crew has been taken down by street level before.
@leeharalsonjr: Can you prove that Carnage is a 90 tonner? Carnage doesn't have the offensive output necessary to even hurt the Wrecking Crew. I can prove you wrong just by using Luke Cage written under Bendis as a measuring stick here. With his whimpy 20-25 ton strength, he was able to one-shot Venom with the Wrecker's magically enchanted crowbar:
Not the first time he owned Venom under Bendis...
Now let's compare how the Wrecker fared against Bendis (written by the same exact writer):
Meanwhile, after over 4 pages of poking and hitting Luke Cage, Carnage ultimately couldn't do anything to Luke. Once again, this was written by the same writer. Venom and Carnage are a joke compared to the Wrecker, let alone the entire Wrecking Crew.
@leeharalsonjr: Show me a handbook entry saying he's a class 90. That sounds like total bull. You were the one that brought up Venom and how he fights bricks (as if that's good writing somehow). Carnage may be above Venom, but the gap isn't really that high. Not high enough, at least, to prove that a weaker character with Wrecker's crowbar one-shotting Venom is irrelevant to Cletus. Also, that scan of Deadpool and Spider-Man fighting the Wrecking Crew isn't a good showing for them. Peter and Wade were getting stomped until the Punisher came and saved them with gear from other supervillains. He ultimately used knocking gas to take them down. As for the scan of Iron Fist beating them, that was absolutely horrible writing. Considering the fact that Iron Fist casually stomped them like they were nothing more than street level thugs was just absurd. Iron Fist even managed to somehow break Thunderball's enchanted ball and chain despite not being able to do jack to it back in the day:
In fact, he does so horribly that he claims he can barely stand after fighting them, gives up (admits he can't beat them), and then resorts to hoping the Avengers will help him save his girlfriend.
And yeah, Wrecker has no-sold Iron Fist before as well:
Don't even get me started on the horrific writing of Toxin overpowering Wrecker and stomping him and Piledriver all in two pages... Even if you view that as good writing, Piledriver hit Wrecker and Toxin ultimately used the crowbar to take them down. Being forced to resort to using your opponent's weaponry against them doesn't prove that you are above them. Just like how Luke Cage could not possibly have any chance against Wrecker unless he somehow disarmed him and used the crowbar against him. Even at face value, that's only two of them.
They can be jobbers at times, but these guys were given Asgardian enchanted weaponry and power made to be a threat to Thor by Loki. They weren't intended to be street level threats. I know you will probably argue that "those were the classic times, but now they suck". It's not really true because they still have high tier feats in modern comics like fighting Alpha Flight, Hulk, Namor, Iron Man, and even Thor. Carnage and Venom have absolutely no business at all fighting those types of characters, let alone four of them at once.
@noone1996: you can't just ignore all the consistent lower showings cause you think they should be high.class bricks. They have been handled by street level before and if anything it's the rare high showing that is poor writing. And IF has harmed them more than not. They were taken down by cage wolvie fist and JJ. Wrecker has been ko by cap too. Argue toxin winning was pis but that's how I see it happening and frankly carnage can do the same. And just because you have a magic weapon doesn't mean you auto win. And I'll post the handbook scan in a sec.
@leeharalsonjr: Consistent lower showings? Really? I have demonstrated that the few outliers of them fighting street levelers, even though they more often than not fight mid tiers and high tiers like Hulk, Colossus, She-Hulk, Thor, etc., are ALL invalid because some dumb misinformed writers think they are street levelers too. When does Iron Fist "more often than not hurt them"? I just showed two instances where they were basically no-selling him and you showed one where he stomps them easier than the Hulk has. Unless you have more, Iron Fist doesn't hurt them more often than not. Cage only won due to using Wrecker's crowbar against him and had backup from teammates which took the Wrecker's full attention away from Cage giving him an advantage. The Wrecker ALONE took down a roster of Avengers which included Cage, Spider-Man, Wolverine, and Spider Woman at the same time. If not for her pheromones to distract him and give her teammates time to recover (since he casually KO'd all of them by himself), he would have gotten away or killed them. Cap has only "KO'd" a weakened Wrecker that was not only fighting off Iron Fist and Captain America at the same time, but who was taking a beating from the Avengers training program which was set on Thor's power level setting. What YOU are doing is lowballing and I'm pretty sure I can post WAY more instances of them performing at mid/high tiers than you can of them operating at street level.
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