Who is the strongest Avenger Jean Grey can defeat? (comic book/616 universe)

as the title says, who is the most powerful Avenger Jean Grey (comic book) can beat? Can be a former member or member from a sub-team or whatever. As long as they are generally associated or were generally associated with the Avengers, they can be counted.

Jean doesn't have access to the phoenix but is not holding back her own powers anymore

Scenario 1: Jean and Avengers are in-character

Scenario 2: Jean and Avengers are bloodlusted

Hulk

Iron Man probably, but even then I'd not bet on her.

Honestly Hulk or Thor imo.

Black Widow

You mean FOX Jean Grey,right ?

If so I'd say Tony or even Thor. (Not sure about Strange,cause he seems to have more abilities and HAX besides his showings)

sorry i should have specified. I mean comic book versions :)

@thewatcherking: @thor_parker82: @supergoku17: dunno if this affects your answers or not but I mean 616/comic verisons, in case any of you thought I meant the movie version as someone metioned FOX Jean :)

@onsipin: I thought so, and thus my answer is the same.

Then I'd say Thor if he is in character,cause if Thor starts to fight like a true deity instaed of a brawler,he should be a tier above where he is now.

Is this worthy or unworthy thor

I'd say at Thor more so when bloodlusted.

Thor.

Round 1 - Wonder Man

Round 2 - Hulk or Thor

Scenario 1: It is a toss up. It depends on what kind of writer she has on her. If they specify her holding back like she was in most of her history, then those with defenses will halt her. So basically, it would range up to Wolverine/ Hulk.

Without holding back, her possibilities are endless. Even the likes of Thor, Wanda Maximoff, and World Breaker Hulk could find trouble with a no holding back Jean Grey in character. This doesn’t mean she has it in the bag since she is still in character, but she takes less bull crap when she doesn’t hold anything back.

Scenario 2: I highly doubt any Avenger could stop her. Thor’s May hold the mind of a god, but as X-Men Forever has shown (the early 2000’s one, not late), she could handle information from cosmic beings because of her experience with the Phoenix Force. Without any suitable psychics on the Avengers, the only people who maybe have a shot would be the Maximoff twins. Even then, Jean has caught Quicksilver with her telekinesis in her Marvel Girl days when she was the weakest member and Wanda has been susceptible to telepathy in the past.

@thor_parker82: You would lose then considering she has solo’d Iron Man before.

No one stands a chance against her. Maybe Wanda but she still needs boost in IW2.

OP states she is not holding back

She could beat Thor.

@onsipin: In that case, then only the last two paragraphs apply.

@whyzoserious: this is comic book versions not movie

Are the Avengers in character or going for the kill?

@evil-incarnate: hmm good question. I suppose it would be fair to have the avengers in-character in round 1 and also bloodlusted in round 2?

well, she cant beat full power docyor strange. Spectrum, it depends on a lot of things, does she blitz first,is jeans mind already in astral form ,depending on the situation, jean could beat her.im not sure about sentrym hes a high powered telepath and has other strong powers,dont think jean can beat him,

I think the easier way to answer this, is not who is the strongest Avenger Jean can beat, but rather which Avengers could beat Jean.

The answer is, not that many.

Sentry, Thor, Spectrum, Dr Strange, Scarlet Witch, Sersi and maybe Vision could all give Jean a run for her money. Some she could beat, some could beat her, it just depends on the storyline. But the vast majority of the Avengers She could take pretty handily.

Well recently Jean implied that the Phoenix was actually holding her back and keeping her from achieving her full potential, so theoretically she's more powerful now than ever.

Hard to say currently.

@ashetdust: Right. I agree

Bloodlusted, I would say she could take a win up to Wanda/Thor although at that point it might just depend on who can get the jump on the other. She could shutdown Thor or Wanda insatantly with TP (i don't think they have formidable TP resistance) or snap their necks or crush their hearts with TK. Likewise, wanda could do something similar to Jean or Thor could also perhaps blitz her. For a drawn out fight I would say Jean would be their equal as well. She would not be able to take the likes of Sentry or a fully powered Dr. Strange IMO, so yeah I'd put her at around 50/50 with people like Thor and Wanda

This.

The strongest she could defeat are probably Thor, Hulk, or Scarlet Witch.

@ashetdust: @del_torro: Spectrum is still debatable considering an unconscious Jean Grey was capable of not only repelling her after Monica shot an energy blast at the psychic cocoon, but she turned her physical all in self-defense underwater.

Sentry is an odd case for me. None of the telepaths that he has come across boast in power aside from Xavier, whom I believe Jean ranks above. Both have planetary level feats consistently and Sentry has an impenetrable mind that took Emma and Xavier to penetrate, which was still limited. Yet, Jean herself has penetrated psychic defenses made to stop telepaths as powerful as Xavier before, so that is a toss up to me if they were to go in psychic combat.

Dr. Strange is a good pick. While he has been affected by telepathy and mind tricks, he has consistently broken free of the influence. He has even defeated Moondragon. While I believe Jean ranks above Moondragon, I’m not so sure Jean could survive an experience with Stephen.

Sersi? This ones tricky for me to figure out. After research, she seems to have one planetary level telepathic feat of scanning the minds of Earth. Nothing new for Jean, but still notable. Don’t know what her psychic prowess is or on whether she can multitask her focus. It’s a toss up for me on that one.

Jeans molecular level telekinesis answers to Vision.

When and what's the context ?

@thor_parker82: Her mind was teleported to the counter-earth at the beginning of operation: zero tolerance (around the time of the heroes reborn arc after the onslaught saga). She ended up in Stark Industries through an unknown psionic Force. She basically shot Iron Man with a blast of telekinetic energy and knocked him down. The fight was cut short when Jean was sent back. Needless to say, Jean not only had Tony on the ropes, but was at this point in time known as the most powerful telepath in the world.

There is no way in hell Jean is losing to Tony in a random encounter.

Telepathy isn't a problem when it comes to Iron Man, his shielding has protected him from Red Onsalught's telepathy and him being badly damaged by a single telekinetic blast doesn't sound too consistent, not to mention he's become more powerful since Heroes Reborn, he was pretty much unaffected by Magneto's strikes whom was amping his punches with the sun and channeling other planetary objects, he has also tanked Thor's punches and kept fighting, so I don't think Jean would have him on the ropes with a single strike, certainly not post-extremis Iron Man.

Yes, she is.

All of them really... Jean CAN beat any of them. Maybe she wouldn't get a majority against every Avenger but she definitely has the ability to put down any and every Avenger I can think of.

@thor_parker82: Sure...

@thor_parker82: 1) Jean is an omega level mutant who has stopped holding back. She has only gotten stronger even after barely coming back from the dead.

2) Tony only was blocking passive telepathy. The minute he focused his powers on Tony, the tech couldn’t protect him.

3) Magneto vs Tony in A vs X #1?? Tony got by because he traded in the material of his armor for non-metal. After that, Magneto decided to copy Tony’s idea. Yeah, that was definitely something the Master of Magnetism would do, instead of maybe, using the satellites metals on Tony, or controlling rock, or stopping Tony with the electromagnetic fields. Not only was the fight bull crap, it was intervened by Magnetos inner conflict. Magneto didn’t put everything in that fight. (Or more accurately was written by a crap writer) Either way, because of Magneto’s inner conflict and the fact that Tony had off-screen prep, that diminishes his encounter with the Master of Magnetism.

4) Tanking Thor’s punches....Since you’d like to refer to Avengers bs X-Men, I guess I will do the same. Jean’s daughter Rachel Summers has fought Thor with her telekinesis, blocking his attacks with no effort. She eventually overpowers him. This was after he shot her with lightning, btw. If Rachel can do that, it isn’t that much of a stretch that Jean could as well.

5) Jeans telekinesis has only gotten stronger in her history after she decided to stop holding back and to start pushin her limits. She has blocked punches from Abomination (who has gone toe-to-Tie with the Hulk). She has blocked Island size explosions. She has held the top of a buildings antenna, which weighed thousands of tons according to Jean. She has held back Cyclops optic blast which can punch through mountains. She has blocked Black Bolts energy beams and punches. (Black Bolt has gone toe-to-toe with Hulk and Gladiator in his time and Jean blocked him with ease) There is no way Iron Man could compare even post Extremis.

Ironman

She eats all of the Avengers, I mean, alone the Phoenix Force made the Avengers run for their lives, in that scenario, the Phoenix influence was divided into numerous X-Men characters, the Avengers won't stand a single chance against Jean Grey in her unleashed form.

There is just noway, even all of them together and at their hypothetical composite version won't stand a chance against Jean Grey at her full potential, you can even put Wanda in the squad and still, there won't be any real impact.

Source: The Return of the Phoenix Force Vol.1, The Phoenix Five Vol.2.

@abstractraze: but there is no phoenix in this scenario

For both cases she would be at the top-tier Avenger level with the likes of Scarlet Witch and Thor

Can anyone tell me what Jean has done(without the Phoenix Force) that allows her to beat some high tier Avengers?

Like I've never seen her do ANYTHING that allows her to confront someone like Hulk or Thor in an all out battle, let alone defeat them.

Her best bet is finding the strongest Avenger who doesn't have great TP defenses which could possibly include Thor(since his TP defenses are all over the place), it definitely excludes Hulk(since his TP defenses are very strong), other than that i guess Hyperion(has no TP defenses)? Blue Marvel(has one average TP resistance feat)?

I guess Hyperion and Blue Marvel are the highest she can probably go if she immediately goes for the TP.

@pyrofn:

1) Jean is an omega level mutant who has stopped holding back. She has only gotten stronger even after barely coming back from the dead.

Good for her, I am not lowballing her, I simply think higher of Iron Man than most people here give him credit for.

2) Tony only was blocking passive telepathy. The minute he focused his powers on Tony, the tech couldn’t protect him.

I don't know what you're talking about, Tony never got TP'ed in the entirety of AXIS and he used his tech to protect others from Red Skull, not only himself.

3) Magneto vs Tony in A vs X #1?? Tony got by because he traded in the material of his armor for non-metal. After that, Magneto decided to copy Tony’s idea. Yeah, that was definitely something the Master of Magnetism would do, instead of maybe, using the satellites metals on Tony, or controlling rock, or stopping Tony with the electromagnetic fields. Not only was the fight bull crap, it was intervened by Magnetos inner conflict. Magneto didn’t put everything in that fight. (Or more accurately was written by a crap writer) Either way, because of Magneto’s inner conflict and the fact that Tony had off-screen prep, that diminishes his encounter with the Master of Magnetism.

I agree that Magneto could have gone about it a different way, but that doesn't take away that Tony tanked his punches which were amped by planetary objects, while Tony himself was using Jupiter's magnetic field to amp his strikes, in a lot of fights characters don't do everything they could or should do, it's called CIS and it's present in almost every single fight in comic books.

4) Tanking Thor’s punches....Since you’d like to refer to Avengers bs X-Men, I guess I will do the same. Jean’s daughter Rachel Summers has fought Thor with her telekinesis, blocking his attacks with no effort. She eventually overpowers him. This was after he shot her with lightning, btw. If Rachel can do that, it isn’t that much of a stretch that Jean could as well.

Rachel didn't overpower him, she simply struck him with TK and then Namor interrupted the fight, then Thor continued fighting Namor

5) Jeans telekinesis has only gotten stronger in her history after she decided to stop holding back and to start pushin her limits. She has blocked punches from Abomination (who has gone toe-to-Tie with the Hulk).

It's been years since Abomination has gone toe to toe with Hulk who has grown more powerful, but if you want to go there, Thor one shotted Abomination with ease, yet had some trouble against BE Iron Man.

She has blocked Island size explosions.

Cool, Tony has tanked several nukes without shields and with 2% shielding.

She has held the top of a buildings antenna, which weighed thousands of tons according to Jean.

Tony has lifted buildings and cruise ships in his older and weaker armors.

She has held back Cyclops optic blast which can punch through mountains.

Tony has shattered mountains with his repulsor blasts and flew straight through a mountain of rocks the size of Manhattan, shattering it in the process.

She has blocked Black Bolts energy beams and punches. (Black Bolt has gone toe-to-toe with Hulk and Gladiator in his time and Jean blocked him with ease) There is no way Iron Man could compare even post Extremis.

As shown, Iron Man does compare and in some cases outshines Jean.

I am arguing against an in-character Jean btw, a morals off Jean would beat Tony.

@thor_parker82: blocking island busting attacks is way better than tanking nukes, since a nuke is only capable of destroying a mountain top(which is obviously way less impressive than destroying an island).

Tony tanked the nuke without shields and was unharmed, meaning he can tank way more before he gets significant damage, he has also come out unscratched by a nuclear blast with onyl 2% shielding, now imagine if it was at 100%.

@thor_parker82: 1) Fair Enough.

2) Crap. I meant started failing, considering Captain America stated Skull would be free of the dampeners at any moment.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YTEAJBbNyXs/VqcvjqjwEkI/AAAAAAAAPIc/HbkbZj86y3A/s1600-Ic42/RCO007.jpg

3) As bull crap as the fight was, you bring a good point.

4) That would be overpowering him since she is making use of a psychic force through her will after just being pinned in a stalemate with him vs her tk shield.

Note: While Thor was for all intent was likely underestimating her, yet your average Thor is still way above Iron Man without prep.

5) BE?

6) Which suit would that be and does that suit have psychic shielding?

7) Noted.

8) Also Noted.

9) I know your arguing for her in-character. It’s definitely not a stomp and I realize that now. Still don’t believe Tony could overcome her just yet. So far, he has only met her blow-for-blow with these feats. And I doubt that we’ve yet to reach the biggest feats for these characters either.