Who in Naruto could easily break out of this if caught?

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Saxz

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@daruma:

Bleach characters have reishi bodies, a totally different form of matter from the regular matter(kishi) of the living world. It doesn't matter if they have bodily functions, it doesn't make them any less of a soul.

They are souls from the afterlife who still take part in reincarnation, They need to posses bodies to properly interact with the human world.

2. My point exactly. If he could phase things in him, he should have being able to phase through Madara's seal or even the Minato seals that were right on his skin. But he probably can't due to the mechanics of his phasing.

Yeah I know chakra is half spiritual energy. That doesn't give it the abilities of reiatsu,if that's what you are suggesting, same way reiryoku doesn't have the abilities of Chakra.

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deactivated-5e3ad364a11c9

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@saxz: chakra is absolutely very similar to the spiritual energy in Bleach.

Both times he has seals placed on him it was because he wasn't intangible at the time, he can go intangible right before they use this seal it never lands.

Back to my point anyone stronger than this Aizen is too strong for this Seal.

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Cosmic_penguin

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Any Uchiha can use Izanagi can easily break out of this.

Aizen was sealed because he wished to be a normal Shinigami after he lost to Ichigo and the Hogyoku weaken him. this was his desire. if the Hogyoku didn't weaken him Aizen can break if he desires so but the Hogyoku wasn’t in effect at that point.

Also, Kyūjūrokkei Kakafūmetsu needs its own target weakened to activate.

Activating on its own when the target is weakened, it pierces them from the inside out with several cross-shaped beams of light, which merge into a single, vaguely star-shaped barrier, with the target sealed inside.

https://bleach.fandom.com/wiki/Ky%C5%ABj%C5%ABrokkei_Kakaf%C5%ABmetsu

Izanagi is a reality-warping power like Hogyoku, the Hogyoku materializes one's desires provided that the person has the capability to achieve it. while Izanagi gives the user temporary control of reality's flow.

From Izanagi wiki page:

With Izanagi, the user applies an illusion to reality itself, giving the user control over what is and is not real for as long as Izanagi is active. Users typically do this in order to protect themselves, negating any injuries they receive or even their deaths. When this happens, their injured self fades away as an illusion and their non-injured self immediately materialises in the previous self's place. In the anime, users are shown extending Izanagi's influence beyond their personal reality, affecting their surroundings and those within it.

If Izanagi power can negate the death of its user it can save the user from a seal that bounds the soul too.

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Saxz

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@daruma:

Yeah of course, he can evade the seals. That's not the question the OP asked though.

Chakra is not similar to spiritual energy at all, different energies, different mechanics,different abilities. What similarities are you seeing here. The only similarities you are getting here is the name "Spiritual energy " and that's it.

Anyone with a stronger soul resistance than Aizen,is too strong for the seal you mean.

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deactivated-5e3ad364a11c9

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@saxz:

No they're very similar they have a lot of similar mechanics and abilities.

No anyone stronger than him is plenty as chakra is spiritual so said person would have a stronger spirit.

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Saxz

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@daruma:

No their mechanics are crazy different. I really don't see the similarities reiatsu, chakra and Haki. All energies of the HST are fundamentally different. But I do understand the case of energy equalisation in battle. But the OP never equalised energies here.

Since when does stronger spiritual energy or Chakra = stronger soul/spirit in Narutoverse mechanics. Do you have a scan for that?

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deactivated-5e3ad364a11c9

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@saxz: What do I need a scan for? Chakra is literally energy from the spirit so a person with stronger chakra has a stronger spirit.

Name some things the Spiritual energy in Bleach can do that Chakra can't.

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Saxz

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@daruma:

Its not energy "from the spirit/soul".that's false. Its mental energy from the mind,achieved through hardwork and meditation and then combined with physical energy, no part of Narutoverse energy was specifically said to come from the soul or make their soul stronger. You can look it up if you want.

In contrast, bleachverse energy, is the energy emitted or posesed by the soul.

Things that they can't do? Well they are numerous differences

Reiryoku when exerted as reiatsu passively protects your soul ,Chakra doesn't.

You can deactivate a person Reiryoku permanently by stabbing him in two specific point on his torso. Chakra doesn't.

Chakra has pathways that circulate round the body, Reiryoku don't

Chakra has several elemental natures. Reiryoku don't.

A person reiryoku when exerted as reiatsu can't can destroy a weaker soul. Chakra can't.

Chakra can be used to connect people and even achieve telepathy. Reiryoku can't.

When a person loses all his Chakra they die, when a person loses all his reiatsu they don't die.

Having a certain amount of reiatsu makes you totally and passively impervious to harm from an extremely weaker person. Chakra doesn't have this rule.

A bleach character may have a stable reiryoku but wavering reiatsu. Which can change the individual power drastically by several tiers. Chakra doesn't have this rule,a Naruto character Chakra is always stable and has a set power level.

I could go on....

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deactivated-5e3ad364a11c9

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@saxz: mental energy comes from the spirit you can read the manga if you want, the only thing you listed that's different is lack of chakra killing you and chakra having more nature's and telepathy everything else is similar.

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ManimalMan

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tayuya was using yin energy to form spirits and folks are still out here trying to argue that its not spiritual

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UltimateSage

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#111  Edited By UltimateSage

You can deactivate a person Reiryoku permanently by stabbing him in two specific point on his torso. Chakra doesn't.

does the hyuga clan not exist anymore??lmao

OT: any one above aizen breaks itt

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KingogKings777

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@ecoblitz said:

@wanderez: you’re biased if you think a majority of regular people vote for who they think will win in a CaV.

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AnimeFreak1

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#113  Edited By AnimeFreak1

@ultimatesage: Who's saying Chakra has no Spirit Energy?

Chakra IS part Spirit Energy, been stated many times

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UltimateSage

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ReaperTheGrim

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This kido only worked to begin with because Aizen was heavily weakened. It couldn’t even seal first form hogyoku Aizen. So anyone more powerful than him doesn’t get sealed.

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Saxz

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@animefreak1: @manimalman: @daruma: @ultimatesage:

I never argued that its not spiritual energy, I agreed that it was spiritual since it was clearly stated to be spiritual energy. What i am saying is; The fundamentals of spiritual energy in Narutoverse and bleachverse are different.

Bleachverse clearly states their spiritual energy comes from their souls and it's powered by their souls l . Which gives them a strong soul and resistances to soul attacks.

Narutoverse says something entirely different; spiritual energy comes from mental training and experience and has nothing to do with the power of the soul. It's right there, in the scan the dude posted above

If you guys think spiritual energy in the Narutoverse is the energy produced by the soul and therefore has the exact Same mechanics as the bleachverse. Then burden of proof is on you.

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Setrakian

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You can deactivate a person Reiryoku permanently by stabbing him in two specific point on his torso. Chakra doesn't.

does the hyuga clan not exist anymore??lmao

OT: any one above aizen breaks itt

gentle fist attacks don't permanently block chakra flow or its production. It just temporarily blocks the tenketsu to obstruct the flow of chakra

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Saxz

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#118  Edited By Saxz

@ultimatesage:

What the hyuga clan does is not the same thing.

The hyuga clan block chakra pathways,to temporarily disrupt Chakra flow and prevent you from properly molding chakra.

While in bleachverse,puncturing and destroying the reiatsu producing organs(IIRC). Would seize the production of reiatsu permanently.

A hyuga clan member can't replicate its feat against a bleach character cuz they don't have Chakra(energy) pathways.

Likewise stabbing a Naruto character at 2 specific points in the torso won't make them lose their Chakra permanently

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deactivated-5e3ad364a11c9

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@saxz: No it says word for word that mental energy comes from the spirit which is synonymous for the soul, you can deny it all you want but that's a fact. And everything you said Chakra can somewhat do.

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Saxz

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@daruma:

Oh you're right ,it does say energy that comes from the spirit, i admit i missed that phrase before. I was more focused on how their spiritual energy was acquired. The explanation sakura gave. Which is completely different from how spiritual energy is acquired in bleach

However my point hasnt changed. both spiritual energies are fundamentally different and operate on different mechanics.

Everything i said chakra can't do it.the only thing they have in common is they are both energies that power techniques. But they have diffrent rules,give different abilities and different resistances. You cant lump them together because they happen to have the same name.

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deactivated-5e3ad364a11c9

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@saxz: No everything you said Chakra can do on some level, it's not the exact same but it doesn't need to be they work similarly enough.

Chakra fan crush things and people. Chakra can protect the body/spirit. Chakra network can be shutdown. Etc.

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uchihaghost

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@saxz: fact is Aizen wasn't affected when he was at full power, he was only affected whilst he was weakened, so yea it is NOT hax if power could trump it, hax is hax when it ignores power level. So yes unless it has other feats of sealing higher/stronger opponents, we are still only going to use its upper limits which was sealing WEAKENED Aizen.

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Saxz

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@daruma:

Chakra can soul crush? When

Chakra passively protects the spirit? When .

Chakra does protect the body,only when used as a technique,but not passively as reiatsu does. Putting it in perspective; a low tier cant harm a high tier in bleach,Even if the high tier was sleeping.

But some fodder can stab naruto or Sasuke in his sleep and suceed.

Chakra network can be shutdown? Tempoarily not permanenetly and again completely different mechanics.

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Saxz

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@uchihaghost:

Aizen has soul hax resistance,he overcame the seal with soul hax resistance not just by power levels, while true that soul hax resistance is synonymous with power levels in verses like bleach, yuyu hakusho e.t.c.

However it doesn't apply to all verses automatically.

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Ymirgod

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#125  Edited By Ymirgod

@saxz said:

@daruma:

Its not energy "from the spirit/soul".that's false. Its mental energy from the mind,achieved through hardwork and meditation and then combined with physical energy, no part of Narutoverse energy was specifically said to come from the soul or make their soul stronger. You can look it up if you want.

In contrast, bleachverse energy, is the energy emitted or posesed by the soul.

Things that they can't do? Well they are numerous differences

Reiryoku when exerted as reiatsu passively protects your soul ,Chakra doesn't.

You can deactivate a person Reiryoku permanently by stabbing him in two specific point on his torso. Chakra doesn't.

Chakra has pathways that circulate round the body, Reiryoku don't

Chakra has several elemental natures. Reiryoku don't.

A person reiryoku when exerted as reiatsu can't can destroy a weaker soul. Chakra can't.

Chakra can be used to connect people and even achieve telepathy. Reiryoku can't.

When a person loses all his Chakra they die, when a person loses all his reiatsu they don't die.

Having a certain amount of reiatsu makes you totally and passively impervious to harm from an extremely weaker person. Chakra doesn't have this rule.

A bleach character may have a stable reiryoku but wavering reiatsu. Which can change the individual power drastically by several tiers. Chakra doesn't have this rule,a Naruto character Chakra is always stable and has a set power level.

I could go on....

exactly... and why is he even asking that since bleach has far more variety of different powers than just elemental jutsus and eyeball powers.

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deactivated-5e3ad364a11c9

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@saxz:

When did I say soul crush? I said people and things.

Since Chakra is 1/2 spiritual power which is tied to everything in the verse, chakra can protect people therefore their soul. That's why Nagato can kill thousands via soul ripping but not Naruto.

So if someone who can't Regen has his chakra points completely destroyed it's only temporary? Yeah no.

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OG1stSquadCap

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Nobody it's a soul sealing technique.

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OG1stSquadCap

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@ecoblitz said:

@wanderez: you’re biased if you think a majority of regular people vote for who they think will win in a CaV.

I vote for whoever actually presents a decent argument. I could go into the CaV biased but if the character I was rooting for is backed by someone who's not so bright well....................

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KingogKings777

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@ecoblitz said:

@wanderez: you’re biased if you think a majority of regular people vote for who they think will win in a CaV.

I vote for whoever actually presents a decent argument. I could go into the CaV biased but if the character I was rooting for is backed by someone who's not so bright well....................

Also don't forget about how they format it.

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OG1stSquadCap

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@og1stsquadcap said:
@ecoblitz said:

@wanderez: you’re biased if you think a majority of regular people vote for who they think will win in a CaV.

I vote for whoever actually presents a decent argument. I could go into the CaV biased but if the character I was rooting for is backed by someone who's not so bright well....................

Also don't forget about how they format it.

Nah I don't really care about that personally, as long as I can read your argument and it can make sense I'll give credit, you gotta remember some of these kids around here are probably still in high school lmao.

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KingogKings777

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@kingogkings777 said:
@og1stsquadcap said:
@ecoblitz said:

@wanderez: you’re biased if you think a majority of regular people vote for who they think will win in a CaV.

I vote for whoever actually presents a decent argument. I could go into the CaV biased but if the character I was rooting for is backed by someone who's not so bright well....................

Also don't forget about how they format it.

Nah I don't really care about that personally, as long as I can read your argument and it can make sense I'll give credit, you gotta remember some of these kids around here are probably still in high school lmao.

Ah okay, with 3rd grade reading comprehension

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JOVIOLMA

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Amenotejikara GG

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Saxz

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#133  Edited By Saxz

@daruma:

Intimidating people/killing intent or crushing things by emitting your energy is a common anime trope. Its completely different from what reiatsu crush does.

Dude, its all in the mechanics.,Naruto was able to somewhat resist having his soul(i think) pulled out because he could physically grab onto it and ensue a tug of war, not because he has some or a lot of chakra. Orochimaru was able to replicate that feat and in both cases they never won and they were likely going to lose if it wasn't for plot. But the point here is they never resisted because "chakra protect thier souls". If they did, then kurama who has astronomical levels of chakra should have no-sell the death god technique(since orochimaru resisted) and Hanzo- a Kage level shinobi shouldn't be just as terrified of Nagato soul rip as average shinobi. It was never implied that chakra grants soul protection.

What makes you think chakra points can be completly destroyed? They are just pathways

Following chakra mechanics ,you cant completely destroy the production of chakra without killing a person. Chakra is a combination of energy from the physical body and spirit,produced from the trillions human cells and mental energy. How exactly do you destroy that,without killing the person.

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Saxz

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@joviolma:

The seal would just follow sasuke anywhere he goes. Izanagi is still the only winner here.

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JOVIOLMA

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#135  Edited By JOVIOLMA

@saxz: Why it would, if Sasuke already escaped things that stabbed him such as the rods Jigen used to pierce him ?

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AGrape

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#136  Edited By AGrape

Part 1 Naruto no sells with 1 tail

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Saxz

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@joviolma:

Good point actually. I forgot about that feat. But then again unlike the rods,this seal stabs you from inside out and will continue to do so till you are completely sealed. The stabs are just an effect of the seal. The real seal is some sort of technique on his soul.