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#201 Posted by Supermanthor (18823 posts) - - Show Bio

200 th post damn

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#202 Posted by Virtuozzo (940 posts) - - Show Bio

@empressofdread: Actually, we can, based on the on panel evidence. Saying the contrary, however, is going against the "evidence provided" and relying on assumptions which is not objective debating.

There is no panel evidence saying anything contradictory. Not an assumption, Superman was bloodlusted and not really holding back.

A lot of people sure. It didn't kill Wonder Woman though. It only KOD her for an instant, then she was brought back by the heat of reentry, Wonder Woman herself has stated it would take 3 hits from an all-out Superman to kill her, making the showing consistent with her previous statements.

It was a non-holding back attack, if Dianas durability didn't allow her to take 3 of those hits, she would have died and Superman wouldn't have cared less because he thought it was DD who just killed Lois.

I wouldn't call that argument great.

That's fine, i can't control your subjective opinion, nor do i want.

Sure. Like I said it doesn't affect your argument in any way, Hulks striking feat is better as he did it to Thor. I was just pointing out "one thing".

Exactly, my argument still remains unaffected.

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#203 Posted by Supermanthor (18823 posts) - - Show Bio

@virtuozzo: marvel solicits for feb 2019 will out today cant wait to see whats al ewing have for im hulk

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#204 Posted by Virtuozzo (940 posts) - - Show Bio
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#205 Edited by Supermanthor (18823 posts) - - Show Bio
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#206 Posted by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio

@brucerogers

Yes, she was. Ray Palmer straight up said so.

Just like the previous versions of Hulks are in here. She is weaker than Superman but still stronger than puny Hulk.


@virtuozzo No, this was Onslaught who had all those powers inside him.

"This is why the later version slapped Juggernaut from one country to another knocking him out and ripping off his Cyttorak Gem. As well as tanked the combined powers of all of Earths heroes, including Thor who was in Warrior Madness at the time. And Hulk didn't simply just damage his armor, he completely destroyed his physically form punching through reality as well which ended up separating him and Bruce into 2 bodies."

Actually it was the earliest version of Onslaught who slapped Juggernaut out with a magnetic blast.

Good for Hulk. He is slightly more powerful than Cyclops I guess.


"In fact this whole thing is confirmed by Marvels bio book"

Ah a bio which has never been shown in the comic itself.

Thor actually burst through Onslaught armor.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Uncanny-X-Men-1963/Issue-336?id=23038

While Onslaught had Xavier and Franklin inside of him.


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#207 Posted by dami24434 (4358 posts) - - Show Bio

The only right answer is Thor

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#208 Posted by EmpressOfDread (12367 posts) - - Show Bio

@virtuozzo:

There is no panel evidence saying anything contradictory. Not an assumption, Superman was bloodlusted and not really holding back.

Superman was going all out as Lois Lane was dead sure, but Supermans wanted him to suffer first (context). He wanted to kill him eventually but not with that punch.

It was a non-holding back attack,

Yes.

if Dianas durability didn't allow her to take 3 of those hits,

Last time she did not pass out with one hit. She got her bones broken badly but she just said 3 hits and she dies.

she would have died and Superman wouldn't have cared less because he thought it was DD who just killed Lois.

Yes, Superman wanted to kill her but in the same moment we have them nearly killing each other, so its official Superman did not throw her into the Sun (like the art and panel shows initially from both characters perspective) instead he tried to send him to Earth to continue the fight.

Making him suffer for Eternity - aka not killing.

No Caption Provided

That's fine, i can't control your subjective opinion, nor do i want.

Except it's your opinion that is subjective.

Exactly, my argument still remains unaffected.

No doubt there. But it was having a flawed statement about Superman was going to kill Wonder Woman with that particular hit. Thats all.

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#209 Posted by Supermanthor (18823 posts) - - Show Bio
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#210 Edited by Virtuozzo (940 posts) - - Show Bio

@boogie123: No, this was Onslaught who had all those powers inside him.

No it wasn't actually, Onslaught was yet to fully absorb all of the powers as well as being troubled by Xavier holding him back as i am about to show in a moment.

Actually it was the earliest version of Onslaught who slapped Juggernaut out with a magnetic blast.

It was an earlier version but a better mastery of his powers and without Xavier holding him back, which was stated many times is the reason he hasn't vaporized most of X-men on sight. Anyway he ripped the gem with his bare hands

No Caption Provided

He punched Juggernaut almost 900 miles away, there no indication he threw him with magnetic blast.

Good for Hulk. He is slightly more powerful than Cyclops I guess.

See this is why it's so easy to expose your raging fanboyism, earlier you compared Hulk to Quicksilver, now to Cyclops. It's this reason why it's so easy to expose your nonsense and overwhelming bias.

I already said to you before it's not Hulks fault or Marvels fault that Superman struggles to stop an elephant, gets run over by a steamroller, loses to a pterodactyl and gets KO'd by a whistle from Batman.

Ah a bio which has never been shown in the comic itself.

It was shown multiple times actually

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7

They threw everything at him and it all did nothing, Rogue additionally amped by Visions powers literally bounced of his chest as she tried to bullrush him.

Thor actually burst through Onslaught armor.

While Onslaught had Xavier and Franklin inside of him.

Yes, except as explained in the very next page all that did was actually unleash Onslaughts threw power as it freed him of Reed holding him back

No Caption Provided

So yes out of the entirety of Marvel, they resorted to using Hulk as the only one capable of not only matching Onslaughts physical power, but actually completely destroying his physical form with a punch that literally shattered reality and separated Bruce and Hulk.

No Caption Provided

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#211 Posted by IchiNiSanji (500 posts) - - Show Bio

RIght now I would say hulk

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#212 Posted by RisingBean (9797 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: Good to see you back around, my friend

Thanks. i stick my head in now and then. It's good to see you've stuck it out.

With that let me actually get on topic. I think highest end feats would see Thor winning this with Mjolnir.

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#213 Posted by Virtuozzo (940 posts) - - Show Bio

@empressofdread: Superman was going all out as Lois Lane was dead sure, but Supermans wanted him to suffer first (context). He wanted to kill him eventually but not with that punch.

Yes, but he was fighting WW who is not as durable as DD, so he was still delivering potential killing blows on her. Also you can kill someone while still wanting them to suffer forever.

Yes, Superman wanted to kill her but in the same moment we have them nearly killing each other,

Exactly my point.

Making him suffer for Eternity - aka not killing.

That does not mean you don't want to kill someone, that just means he wanted him to suffer for all eternity for killing Lois, you have people literally say that to death row inmates, it's a metaphorical statement.

Except it's your opinion that is subjective.

Both of our opinions are subjective dude lol.

No doubt there. But it was having a flawed statement about Superman was going to kill Wonder Woman with that particular hit. Thats all.

No it wasn't, it was a hit that KO'd her and sent her flying millions of miles, it could have been a fatal hit, especially since it is confirmed Superman didn't hold back.

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#214 Posted by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio

@virtuozzo:

Yes, it was a magnetic blast.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/lWb-xHoDCZR2Ldg-aXhQErupazW-MlzNL7E2_kGwLVaAUn58Bdn2cfDtk1foxWOrESq4PmsT3c2w=s1600

And it was all psychic tricks by Onslaught. Even Bishop powered by Invisible Woman overpowered Onslaught at that state.


"They threw everything at him and it all did nothing, Rogue additionally amped by Visions powers literally bounced of his chest as she tried to bullrush him"

Because mutants touching Onslaught increased his power. Thor actually caved in his armor.

How pathetic is that.

"explained in the very next page all that did was actually unleash Onslaughts threw power as it freed him of Reed holding him back:"

So you accept that the armor wasn't that tough and you lied?


"So yes out of the entirety of Marvel, they resorted to using Hulk as the only one capable of not only matching Onslaughts physical power, but actually completely destroying his physical form with a punch that literally shattered reality and separated Bruce and Hulk."

And who were all these powerhouses who actually tried to do it? Thor had already caved in his armor once before.

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#215 Posted by Virtuozzo (940 posts) - - Show Bio

@boogie123: Yes, it was a magnetic blast.

I thought you said using bio books that dont have the things they are saying in comics shouldn't be used?

And it was all psychic tricks by Onslaught. Even Bishop powered by Invisible Woman overpowered Onslaught at that state.

Exactly, it was much easier to harm Onslaught at that time.

Because mutants touching Onslaught increased his power. Thor actually caved in his armor.

Thor busted through his armor but never destroyed his physical form, in fact he just made him more powerful literally moments after.

So you accept that the armor wasn't that tough and you lied?

Excuse me? Are you daft? The armor that Hulk destroyed completely is tougher than anything before that, in fact all you did was prove that Thor busted through armor that was inferior. So you actually lied.

And who were all these powerhouses who actually tried to do it? Thor had already caved in his armor once before.

Literally all the characters pictured, Thor caved in an inferior armor and that's all he did, caved in the armor, Hulk completely obliterated his physical form with a punch that broke reality.

How pathetic is that.

Not as pathetic as getting run over by a steamroller, struggling to stop an Indian elephant, getting beaten by a pterodactyl, getting KO'd by Batman whistling and almost dying to the heat of Earths core.

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#216 Edited by BruceRogers (17310 posts) - - Show Bio

@boogie123: Ray Palmer never says anything about going to the core of Quasar. And no, she isnt even as strong as Hulk, let alone stronger.

So you're not even going to deny parroting another user who has no clue what he is talking about? Damn shame.

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#217 Posted by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio
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#218 Posted by Virtuozzo (940 posts) - - Show Bio

@boogie123: I literally can't wait, hurry up i need all the laughter i can get.

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#219 Posted by BruceRogers (17310 posts) - - Show Bio

@boogie123: Well lets start with your powergirl argument - both of you keep spamming that same feat with twisted context in threads that have jack squat to do with her.

You both think throwing around boatloads of scans, without actually reading what they are about, constitutes an argument.

Among other things...

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#220 Edited by deactivated-5ca9389143922 (596 posts) - - Show Bio

Having speed behind your hits is irrelevant here, feats as in the end result is what matters, if anything it means Superman only hits as hard as Hulk and Thor because of his super speed, while they are much slower yet are able to compete with him just fine with their punches, so good job making an argument for why Superman needs super speed to compete in the striking department with these 2 guys

Dude.

Dude . . .

OT: They all seem pretty similar to me.

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#221 Posted by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio

@brucerogers: ah so because you can't debunk it its parroting?

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#222 Posted by BruceRogers (17310 posts) - - Show Bio

@brucerogers: ah so because you can't debunk it its parroting?

No, it's parroting because you're repeating it senselessly.

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#223 Posted by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio

@brucerogers: no you mean because Hulk doesnt have a feat coming close to it


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#224 Posted by Virtuozzo (940 posts) - - Show Bio

Having speed behind your hits is irrelevant here, feats as in the end result is what matters, if anything it means Superman only hits as hard as Hulk and Thor because of his super speed, while they are much slower yet are able to compete with him just fine with their punches, so good job making an argument for why Superman needs super speed to compete in the striking department with these 2 guys

Dude.

Dude . . .

OT: They all seem pretty similar to me.

Sweet, what does mine say?

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#225 Edited by deactivated-5ca9389143922 (596 posts) - - Show Bio

@virtuozzo: Fish and carrots, with a little bit of salt.

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#226 Edited by BruceRogers (17310 posts) - - Show Bio

@boogie123: Besides overcoming the force of a tear in space time that was functionally equivalent to a black hole, during Defenders (1972) #3?. He was not just preventing himself from getting sucked in - there were others as well. One of them was Silver Surfer, though he was without his board.

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#227 Posted by Virtuozzo (940 posts) - - Show Bio

@brucerogers: no you mean because Hulk doesnt have a feat coming close to it

Hulk has a feat of literally walking in a dimension with infinite gravity, which blows PG feat out the water even if we took it at face value, however nobody should be using either of those feats sincerely.

But here we are, you using a feat from PG as a feat for Superman and twisting the feat even further, your whole existence on this site is like walking on quick sand, every time i anticipate you sinking lower.

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#228 Posted by Lan_Fan (13164 posts) - - Show Bio

Having speed behind your hits is irrelevant here, feats as in the end result is what matters, if anything it means Superman only hits as hard as Hulk and Thor because of his super speed, while they are much slower yet are able to compete with him just fine with their punches, so good job making an argument for why Superman needs super speed to compete in the striking department with these 2 guys

Dude.

Dude . . .

LMAO xD

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#229 Posted by Supermanthor (18823 posts) - - Show Bio

I knew a thread featureing hulk will be long

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#230 Posted by King-Ragnar (3836 posts) - - Show Bio

Beta Ray Bill has similar striking power to to them.

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#231 Posted by EmpressOfDread (12367 posts) - - Show Bio

@virtuozzo:

Yes, but he was fighting WW who is not as durable as DD, so he was still delivering potential killing blows on her.

Doesn't imply he is going to be delivering killing blows on her. She ended up getting KOd but what we do have is that Superman intended not to kill Doomsday with that hit. Ergo, he wasn't trying to kill Doomsday which is my point, that he was not delivering killing blows.

Also you can kill someone while still wanting them to suffer forever.

Superman did want to kill but not after making him suffer, thats what he was doing with his hits, making him suffer not kill him. Which is my point.

Exactly my point.

No that isn't your point. Your point was to compare the striking power with a statement of Superman with the intention to kill performed his feat. Which is contradictory to on panel statements and showings.

That does not mean you don't want to kill someone,

That is what it means, he wanted him to suffer first before dying.

that just means he wanted him to suffer for all eternity for killing Lois,

Yes, he wanted him to suffer "first".

you have people literally say that to death row inmates, it's a metaphorical statement.

Yeah, people say all kinds of things, but what Supermans and Wonder Woman's statements in the comic give context, to the fight, what they want, how much they held back etc.

Both of our opinions are subjective dude lol.

I disagree. Superman could have delivered blows that he thinks would kill Doomsday in that instant but he didn't. That means he was not trying to kill in that instant with his hit.

No it wasn't,

Yes, it was.

it was a hit that KO'd her and sent her flying millions of miles,

Yes, that it did.

it could have been a fatal hit,

Could've for Wonder Woman. Since she is not Doomsday, but Superman did not intend to kill with his hit, this is a claim you made in your argument which is relying on wrong evidence. You did use it in your argument even though it doesn't affect the conclusion that Hulks striking (Immortal Hulks) is better.

No Caption Provided

especially since it is confirmed Superman didn't hold back.

Yeah, no doubt. Superman was no holding back and wanted to kill Doomsday no doubt. But my point is that Superman "with that hit" did not intend to kill that's all. He did want to kill for sure, he wanted to kill him but wanted him to suffer first.

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#232 Posted by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio

@virtuozzo: The comic never said it was a punch and Onslaught didn't have a physical body at that point to punch Juggernaut.

"Exactly, it was much easier to harm Onslaught at that time."

His armor was never stated to be tougher at any point later.

Hulk didn't destroy Onslaught physical body either. Onslaught tricked the heroes to crack his armor when he was always just a psychic entity.

Where did you prove that the armor was tougher than before to begin with?

So a lot of sub class 100 characters none of which were shown hitting Onslaught armor?

Onslaught never had a physical body in the first place.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SQMZlMb7QkQ/W8C1OU_DLPI/AAAAAAAAI0o/2G9JIkEvicYIelNHB1KCphl1rWpr58PMgCHMYCw/s1600/RCO028.jpg

His armor was only a shell.

Try again, your existence is on this site is like walking on quick sand, every time i anticipate you sinking lower. you're dismissed

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#233 Posted by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio

@brucerogers:

Yes, Ray Palmer did.

He isn't even as strong as Power Girl

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#234 Edited by BruceRogers (17310 posts) - - Show Bio

@boogie123: Ray Palmer doesnt mention that anywhere in the issue.

Come back when Power Girl can pull and hold a planet together, when in a weakened state. And thats not even getting into his more ridiculous feats.

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#235 Posted by Battle123axe (8981 posts) - - Show Bio
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#236 Posted by Virtuozzo (940 posts) - - Show Bio

@empressofdread: This is all pointless, just going in circles and debating semantics, the one thing that interest me is this

No that isn't your point. Your point was to compare the striking power with a statement of Superman with the intention to kill performed his feat. Which is contradictory to on panel statements and showings.

First off go back, that was not my point. That was my ORIGINAL point that i retracted, the point i made afterwards is the one i am referring to.

Secondly show me where does it say on panel statements and showings that Supermans punch on WW wasn't meant to kill.

Finally explain to me how a non-holding back character punch is different to a punch meant to kill.

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#237 Posted by Virtuozzo (940 posts) - - Show Bio

@boogie123: The comic never said it was a punch and Onslaught didn't have a physical body at that point to punch Juggernaut.

You are not answering my question, why are you using statements outside of the comic to support something you said when you said we shouldn't use statements outside of comics?

His armor was never stated to be tougher at any point later.

Why does such an obvious thing need to be stated, when he grew in power in every way?

Hulk didn't destroy Onslaught physical body either. Onslaught tricked the heroes to crack his armor when he was always just a psychic entity.

He literally did, why are you lying right now? He didn't trick anyone and the heroes didn't destroy his armor, it was Hulk all by himself. He did however thing that his body being destroyed he would be unstoppable so the heroes screwed themselves over which was obviously not true since he was defeated moments later precisely because he didn't have a physical body anymore.

Where did you prove that the armor was tougher than before to begin with?

When Cyclops alone was able to damage his armor, while later on he together with dozen other heroes attacking him failed to damage it again.

So a lot of sub class 100 characters none of which were shown hitting Onslaught armor?

Actually a few class 100, most of which couldn't even get through his shields to get to his armor, only Rogue amped with Vision could and she literally just bounced off him.

Onslaught never had a physical body in the first place.

Yes he did, this is a blatant lie.

His armor was only a shell.

His armor was a PHYSICAL shell you dimwit.

you're dismissed

That's cute, i think getting your ass spanked when you got things wrong about Old Asgard and the Infinity stones messed even further with your dwindling mind.

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#238 Posted by FireStarLord73194 (5037 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Thor. In the most recent Avengers issue he (a weakened, jobbing, semi worthy thor) hit a large ball of steel scrap so hard that it flew from earth to the sun. I think his striking power is pretty insane

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#239 Posted by EmpressOfDread (12367 posts) - - Show Bio

@virtuozzo:

Secondly show me where does it say on panel statements and showings that Supermans punch on WW wasn't meant to kill.

Wonder Woman isn't Doomsday. But Superman did not want to kill with that punch. It was not his intent with that punch.

No Caption Provided

Finally explain to me how a non-holding back character punch is different to a punch meant to kill.

When you are fighting in character with a mindset of not holding back you mean to hurt your opponents, that exactly what Superman wanted to do, doesn't mean they are delivering kill shots, as for that single punch (from that entire fight) he did not want to kill that much he did not do "with that particular punch" Superman did not want to kill with that hit, he was not holding back in his fight, but a fight is longer than one punch, it also involves heat vision, frost breath etc. Which Supermans used later.

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#240 Posted by RedHeathen (2241 posts) - - Show Bio

@lan_fan said:

@supermanthor: Both are normal Thor.

No Caption Provided

@lan_fan said:

@supermanthor: Both are normal Thor.

well with hammer should have said that

This has to be Thor. Thor is a god and Supes is god-like. Mew-Mew just gives Thor the edge.

I know this has no bearing on this battle, but remember when Superman had the power of Thor because he wielded Mjolnir in addition to his own power? He seemed to really enjoy it. 2003 JLA/Avengers issue 4:

No Caption Provided

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#241 Posted by Virtuozzo (940 posts) - - Show Bio

@empressofdread:

Wonder Woman isn't Doomsday. But Superman did not want to kill with that punch. It was not his intent with that punch.

That literally says nothing about the particular punch, just the overall fight Supeman had there and it was recap he had afterwards.

When you are fighting in character with a mindset of not holding back you mean to hurt your opponents, that exactly what Superman wanted to do, doesn't mean they are delivering kill shots, as for that single punch (from that entire fight) he did not want to kill that much he did not do "with that particular punch" Superman did not want to kill with that hit, he was not holding back in his fight, but a fight is longer than one punch, it also involves heat vision, frost breath etc. Which Supermans used later.

You can hurt your opponents just as easily while holding back, the whole point of not holding back means you run the risk of killing someone. Because there is literally no place higher to go then no holding back. A no holding back punch is the strongest punch you can deliver. So i am not seeing where Superman did not intend to kill with that punch, other than pure assumptions. Superman was bloodlusted, out of his mind with anger and not holding back, any punch he delivered was deadly, unless the opponent has the durability to tank it.

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#242 Posted by Supermanthor (18823 posts) - - Show Bio
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#243 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (16114 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor

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#244 Posted by RedHeathen (2241 posts) - - Show Bio
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#245 Posted by destinyman75 (14240 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor with mjolnir obviously. Without may be different but with definitely Thor

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#246 Posted by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio

@brucerogers:

Yes, he did.

"If you can't get us inside the nexus of this event, universe is finished".

Exact words

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#247 Posted by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio

@virtuozzo: "He literally did, why are you lying right now? He didn't trick anyone and the heroes didn't destroy his armor, it was Hulk all by himself. He did however thing that his body being destroyed he would be unstoppable so the heroes screwed themselves over which was obviously not true since he was defeated moments later precisely because he didn't have a physical body anymore."

Reed flat out said that it was Onslaught plan all along and he never had a physical body.

Lying again, eh?

"When Cyclops alone was able to damage his armor, while later on he together with dozen other heroes attacking him failed to damage it again."

But they were attacking the force field and not his armor. And Cyclops damaged final form Onslaught, he didn't get more powerful later.

"Actually a few class 100, most of which couldn't even get through his shields to get to his armor, only Rogue amped with Vision could and she literally just bounced off him."

And neither did Hulk break the shield . Wolverine sliced the same force field with his bone claws.

Rogue made Onslaught stronger as she was a mutant.

"Yes he did, this is a blatant lie."

No, he didn't. Reed straight up said so.

Onslaught never had a physical body.

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#248 Posted by Lan_Fan (13164 posts) - - Show Bio
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#249 Posted by jashugan (6276 posts) - - Show Bio

How can any sane human see punching time or dimensions as a "striking" feat? You can't touch time

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#250 Posted by Supermanthor (18823 posts) - - Show Bio