Who do you think is more skilled (CQC) - MCU Captain America or MCU US Agent
I don’t think walker out skilled Sam he just abused his stats. And Relied a lot on the shield.
Rewatch the fight, honestly.
Buck and Sam both threw a punch. Walker parried both of them. Then Buck and Sam both threw a kick and Walker dodged both of them. And then kicked Sam. 5 seconds in the fight and Walker has already parried two hits and dodged two kicks and landed one of his own. In a 2v1. Where is the abuse of stats?
@rbt: yea agree on the beginning.yet almost at the end Bucky seemed holding his own against walker by himself.
@rbt: I think this skill gap issue should be answered next ep when we will see both buck & walker fighting flag smashers
@rbt: yea agree on the beginning.yet almost at the end Bucky seemed holding his own against walker by himself.
At no point did Buck not lose against Walker. After Buck tackled him from top of Sam, Walker still had him down and needed Sam to come in to save him. What happened after they broke his arm doesn't matter.
@rbt: I think this skill gap issue should be answered next ep when we will see both buck & walker fighting flag smashers
What happens after next episode is a different story. But as it currently stands, Walker is definitely more skilled than Cap, barring the inconsistent Ayo showing.
Walker was a straight up monster. He was ragdolling both Buck and Sam, next episode leaks supposedly show him VS 5 Flagsmashers.
Walker was dominating both Buck and Sam.
And yet, people are voting Cap. Nothing trumps that Cap fanboyism, I guess.
This is a ridiculous overstatement of Walker's performance. He is a beast of a super soldier, but he was not "dominating." You realize he lost the fight, right?
There were two instances where he launched Bucky with his superior stats, but other than that Bucky was giving him a decent fight even while Walker had the shield. And don't forget that Bucky brings him to his knees with punches after he tackles him to save Sam, at which point they break his arm and take the shield. After that, Bucky counters his punch, picks him up, and ragdolls him into the shield.
Walker also got straight up outskilled and ragdolled by Sam.
This is a ridiculous overstatement of Walker's performance. He is a beast of a super soldier, but he was not "dominating."
Yes, when you are in a 2v1 and you get multiple opportunities to kill both your combatants with them barely escaping those scenarios, then yes, its called dominating.
You realize he lost the fight, right?
I do.
@rbt: Starting the fight with a valuable weapon, then losing it after getting outskilled by the guy who's much weaker than you, then getting your arm broken, then getting KO'd is not dominating.
Again, he was a beast, but the fight went back and forth. The duo had opportunities to kill him as well, they just didn't try to take them because they weren't bloodlusted like he was.
Starting the fight with a valuable weapon, then losing it after getting outskilled by the guy who's much weaker than you, then getting your arm broken, then getting KO'd is not dominating.
Um, using a grappling hook to wrestle the shield away is an indication of Sam's h2h skill?
Good to know.
I still think there's always a clear difference in how Bucky fights and performs when he's in "winter soldier" state of mind so that and with Caps abundance of more feats puts him above for me by a mile
Starting the fight with a valuable weapon, then losing it after getting outskilled by the guy who's much weaker than you, then getting your arm broken, then getting KO'd is not dominating.
Um, using a grappling hook to wrestle the shield away is an indication of Sam's h2h skill?
Good to know.
I didn't say hand to hand, I just said outskilled, which he was. Sam used his aerial advantage and gear to ragdoll Walker and get the shield away from him despite a large stat gap. Unless you want to argue that Walker is weaker than Sam or something, yeah, that's skill.
Anyways, the point is, the fight went back and forth. The team put up an impressive performance considering that they were fighting with morals against a stronger, bloodlusted opponent. With their teamwork they never let him get a lethal shot off, while they had an actual opportunity to kill him and there was nothing he could have done to stop it.
To me, it showed that Walker is mostly brute force and relatively little skill.
I didn't say hand to hand
Fair. Because I was strictly arguing for cqc.
Walker by feats but Cap should be more skilled in-verse.
Walker nearly beat Bucky and Sam which is better than anything Steve has done.
Starting the fight with a valuable weapon, then losing it after getting outskilled by the guy who's much weaker than you, then getting your arm broken, then getting KO'd is not dominating.
Um, using a grappling hook to wrestle the shield away is an indication of Sam's h2h skill?
Good to know.
I didn't say hand to hand, I just said outskilled, which he was. Sam used his aerial advantage and gear to ragdoll Walker and get the shield away from him despite a large stat gap. Unless you want to argue that Walker is weaker than Sam or something, yeah, that's skill.
Anyways, the point is, the fight went back and forth. The team put up an impressive performance considering that they were fighting with morals against a stronger, bloodlusted opponent. With their teamwork they never let him get a lethal shot off, while they had an actual opportunity to kill him and there was nothing he could have done to stop it.
To me, it showed that Walker is mostly brute force and relatively little skill.
Walker had the chance to kill them both 2-3 times each respectively, if this was a 1v1 in both case's he'd be the victor via decapitation.
Starting the fight with a valuable weapon, then losing it after getting outskilled by the guy who's much weaker than you, then getting your arm broken, then getting KO'd is not dominating.
Um, using a grappling hook to wrestle the shield away is an indication of Sam's h2h skill?
Good to know.
I didn't say hand to hand, I just said outskilled, which he was. Sam used his aerial advantage and gear to ragdoll Walker and get the shield away from him despite a large stat gap. Unless you want to argue that Walker is weaker than Sam or something, yeah, that's skill.
Anyways, the point is, the fight went back and forth. The team put up an impressive performance considering that they were fighting with morals against a stronger, bloodlusted opponent. With their teamwork they never let him get a lethal shot off, while they had an actual opportunity to kill him and there was nothing he could have done to stop it.
To me, it showed that Walker is mostly brute force and relatively little skill.
Walker had the chance to kill them both 2-3 times each respectively, if this was a 1v1 in both case's he'd be the victor via decapitation.
Maybe, but it was almost all because of brute strength. The fact that Sam did as well as he did is a sign of Walker's lack of skill.
Also, I don't think Sam would fight the same way in a 1v1. He's gonna be more comfortable engaging a super soldier when he has a super soldier on his side, too. I think a case could be made for Sam winning that 1v1.
Hang on, inconsistent compared to what? It's not like Walker has a great repertoire of skill feats to outweigh that scene. In his fights with the Flagsmashers, he kinda fights like a brute.
I don't think the Ayo scene should be dismissed. It was an important character moment where Walker realizes he needs the serum because he can't even outskill non-super soldiers.
Cap is the most skilled martial artist in the MCU, right next to T’Challa. He’s definitely a lot more skilled and has superior skill feats. I still wouldn’t put Walker over the post-training Sam’s level of skill.
Walker could get better in the future though.
I still think there's always a clear difference in how Bucky fights and performs when he's in "winter soldier" state of mind so that and with Caps abundance of more feats puts him above for me by a mile
Captain America is my favorite superhero ever but I think his skill is overrated in the MCU there's a lot of proof that any Punisher or above level combatant could be on his level with the super soldier serum.
At this point, from the perspective of on screen evidence, Walker is superior to Steve not only in stats but probably in skill too. I mean it's hard to deny what happened on screen. Steve could never do what Walker did to Bucky and not just Bucky, Walker nearly beat Sam and Buck together and Bucky had a vibranium hand this time around
However, I'm gonna reserve my final verdict after the season finale. I mean, Steve still has a ton of feats in which he fought characters superior to Bucky and did relatively well. Steve has schooled rookie Spiderman who handled Bucky casually. Steve nearly beat Stark in H2H if not for his AI. Steve gave Ultron a respectable fight. Steve also has been clearly established to be superior to Thor in skill. By in universe logic, Steve is one of the most skilled people in the MCU.
So, its too early for a definitive verdict right now
@samjackson: 100% agree
@rbt: actually i think bucky held his own well on this sequence before Walker used the shield to gain the upperhand again
@mexcomics2078: That's an entirety of 2 seconds where they both exchanged same amounts of hits. And no, it wasn't just the shield. Walker landed a rib shot that downed Buck and gave Walker all the time to land that shield smack on his face.
@rbt: agree but without the shield the outcome could be different. my point is that if walker didnt have the shield there buck could keep fighting due to skill
Steve would never be embarrassed by a single Dora. That fight between Walker, and Sam and Buck was BS.
I think John has probably more actual CQC training but Cap has more experience fighting as a super soldier.
People say in verse cap should be more skilled. however Cap was basically nothing until ge got super serum, yeah he may get a lot of training after it, but other than godo hearth and serum and normal training that was his skill.
Walker however withotu serum was basically stated to be the best human alive pretty much, THEN he got serum.
Best human +serum > Human with training + serum
So i tmakes sense that walker is superior.
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