Who can beat bloodlusted Flash

I dare to challenge the First Law

Of Comicvinics itself!!! Who can beat a bloodlusted Wally West other than Zoom and Barry Allen?? The biggest argument here is that even if the opponent had a switch that said WIN..how would they be able to press it before the speedsteal/blitz/IMP?? You decide!

RULES:

both competitors start 100 ft apart in an empty city.marvel or dc characters only.prep allowed.BEAT THE FLASH!!! on your marks, get set...GO!!

Spectre just one shots Flash ,his entire family, earth, solar system, galaxy and maybe the universe.

@nightwing444:

A banana peel.

Prep allowed?

Tons of people.

Thanos

Dr Doom

Reed Richards

Spawn

Ghost Rider

Despero

Odin

Silver Surfer

Scarlet Witch

Those are the ones in the top of my head that can beat Wally under these thread conditions.

Anyone one who can fly and has energy projection really......any foe on the ground he will most likely beat, if they fly then its not likely he will win. GL, Sentry, Thor, SM, SS, etc could all defeat him as long as they are up in the air, but on the ground they will most likely lose.

Flash can fight in space so I highly doubt flying opponents will be an issue for him.

Dr Manhattan

Obsidian

@nightwing444: Hypno Hustler

Obsidian can.

ITT: People speculating that characters who have no feats beating a speedster like Flash, with or without prep, would beat Flash because just because

Batman with Gl Ring.........And the insider.......

Any high level energy manipulator/reality warper and those wielding forces that put them far out of the Flashes league, the Phoenix force, power cosmic, Odin force etc.

No...

Obsidian entertainment

Yes?

Sentry with void, may be kid buu, and doomsday

Odin and any character above should Wally with no prep

Black Panther and above should beat Wally with prep.

Stayne.

@dratini1331: The op says they have to push a button to win. It's not like flash can do anything to Black Flash to put him down. He had to get Black Flash to follow him.

Black Panther? Lol that's cute.

Jmarshmallow

Besides the obvious people, anybody with hax-proof active or passive auto-defense shields; you can't speed blitz hax-proof auto-shields. This includes people like: Anybody from Tenchi Muyo with Light Hawk Wings; Top tier characters from JoJo's Bizarre adventure like Giorno Giovanna; Anybody with Dispel Bound from Bastard!!; etc. Anybody with shields like this would stomp Flash.

The lowest characters non bloodlusted that can beat a flash that is bloodlusted would be like Wonder Woman, Ms Marvel, She Hulk level, they can take almost anything he can dish out minus BFR, and they defiantly have the power to take him down once he makes a mistake. Anybody higher is overkill, and that's just being real

@moonman78: Wonder Woman, Ms Marvel and She Hulk would all lose. Flash would move faster than a instant and do millions of IMP. Also flash can tank monguls best bunches, which have been able to harm superman.

@bronze_surfer: That's fair. I didn't see that.

@moonman78: what?

WW is not stoping him.

@bronze_surfer:

Yes he absolutely does this every time he fights which is why he can beat a character like superman. Oops I'm sorry he never has, even if he imps or whatever it has been consistently proven that its not enough to ko a real top tier, he just doesn't have enough power even with all his speed.

@dratini1331:

Amazo is a vastly inconsistent character and he has been since the original one, but I guess this would count as a win against a top tier if u want it too even though he had help here.

@moonman78: He's blood lusted. He wants you dead. He will kill his opponent. The IMP or Infinite Mass Punch has the same power as if a white dwarf star hit you, which is near that of a neutron star. That would shatter a planet if he actually use it. Unlike superman who when he uses it knocks him out flash can do millions a second from the speed force connection. He could speed steel anyone you have listed and turn them into statues. Hell Jay Garick the slowest flash did a speed steel on superman. Or he can phase their brains out. Or dump them in the speed force. Or do the good old fashoined Infinite Mass Punch. No one you listed would win. Not to mention a blood lusted one who could jest grab them and send them to another planet in a femtosecond.

@moonman78: Alright, I'll sit here and wait while you post any reason why this wouldn't kill any of the characters you listed immediately, or at the bare minimum KO them. Seriously? "Well, I don't like how ComicVine praises flash" is not a legitimate argument. Even more so, you have no reason to even remotely believe the @#$% your spewing. Flash is VERY clearly so fast, that not a single character you said could even touch him, let alone hurt him.

Flash is quite overhyped on ComicVine, I'll totally give you that, but to think a bloodlusted Flash would lose to any of those people, when Hal Jordan, WW, and Superman have had trouble with beating Zoom, is actually just stupid.

This ^, and intangibles with ranged attacks, e.g. Tyki Mikk.

Definitely a no.

@enzeru: I think they had a debate on who was faster, and flash had better feats. Does he have all the same stats as SS though? As you could make an argument for flash if he does.

The stuff your saying is based totally on theory, it has never been proven. In comics we have to go mostly on feats, and flash has never displayed this kind of power when a superman level character steps to him this is what usually happens

Flash attacks

He gets one shotted

Flash attacks

He gets one shotted

Flash tries to attack and is one shotted

Flash attacks and is one shotted

Flash attempts to blitz and is hurt

Flash attacks amazo and is one shotted

Flash could not ever take on Amazo without help, he wouldn't even dream of it..

Kid flash attacks Deathstroke with all his speed yet, and gets one shotted

Wally attacks Deathstroke and is handled.

So You see flash is not on the level of a superman character he cant handle the really big threats by himself, and he consistently gets one shotted by these guys. How come he never uses speed steal or a hundred IMPs like half of you guys say he can use, ill tell you because that stuff doesn't work on these top level characters, unless you think hes too incompetent, Thor has powers that he doesn't use as smart as he should most of the time but at least we know Thors powers work at this level because they have, and they mostly always do when he uses them. Flash on the other hand NEVER has or hardly ever does because that stuff doesn't work against the really big dogs,.. sorry. There are almost no instances of that stuff happing successfully so im pretty sure the writers think he is below Supermans area of power in the pecking order of DC characters.

No they didn't have trouble beating Zoom, the only two fighting him was Flash and WW, and WW beat him and she was blind, go back and read the story and get the facts straight.

It doesn't matter what was said on Panel Flash has never displayed the power to destroy a planet, NEVER in his whole history. A lot of things are said on panel but until they are proven we cant state them as true. Spiderman, and most of the avengers said Sentry was the most powerful hero in the universe, and booster gold stated that Doomsday was faster than Flash.

@enzeru: I don't think so. SS on his board I think is equally fast, but I could also be very wrong.

@moonman78: this is the second time I've seen you totally get the feat wrong... The one I was referring to was the one during Sinestro core wars, I'm pretty sure someone already tagged you with it in another thread.

also, considering you can't read your own scans, I'm pretty sure I'm just gonna ignore you...

Hulk

@dratini1331:

What are you talking about, what feat, I've never talked to u about anything, if you wanna ignore clear facts that's fine, you have already been doing that.

When flash starts beating reputable characters then ill change my opinion, show me scans of something different from flash then

LMAO

Rip Hunter with prep.

@moonman78: Where do I start

Flash getting KO'd by smoething that KO'd Plastic Man, Kyle Rayner, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter isn't even a low showing.

I don't take it you know what oneshotted him, do you?

Did you even look at your own scan? Flash is literally whooping Black Adam's rear -- a guy who's easily Superman's level in durability -- then Black Adam thunderclaps and Jay isn't even affected. It blows his hat off and he rushes to save people from dying from the falling debris. How in the world did he get one shotted here? All I see is Black Adam desperately trying to stop Jay from tearing him to pieces like he was previously. Not to mention this is Jay Garrick, who's far inferior to Wally and doesn't have a tenth of his feats.

This is Bronze Age Barry Allen, is it not? I can tell from the Costume (straight belt, wings on boots) Back then, Flash was A: not as powerful as Wally becomes B: had not shown immunity to telepathy (hypnotic blast, in this case). So, different Flash from a Pre-Crisis, and you're applying it here.

This I believe is from the early 90s, again from before Flash even developed lightspeed additions to his powers. It's not relevant to Wally's later feats where he becomes significantly faster and more dangerous.

Also, which story is it from? Flash's costume is quite different. I get the feeling this is a non canon offshoot.

Amazo tagging Flash isn't PIS. Amazo is as fast as Flash. It's literally never PIS when Amazo does something impressive because of how his powers work.

Gallery

oh boy, Deathstroke scans. Deathstroke also hit a speedster with bullets (Which makes no sense as they see bullets in slow motion) and broke a greatly experienced, massively powered Kyle Rayner's hand and took his ring. Deathstroke has hurt super beings of enormous durability with normal kicks. Deathstroke is a walking PIS machine and has absurd feats vs basically every member of the Justice League. So yes, Flash has lost to Deathstroke a number of times. I don't strike it against him because of his jobber aura.

Also, I mean, the second one was Deathstroke surprising and stunning Wally after Wally singlehandedly beat him into uselessness and had the cops come pick him up. Deathstroke was completely helpless while Wally manhandled him. His triumph was one of surprise more than a failure of Flash's, who far outclassed him just a page before (Which you unceremoniously leave out because you have an agenda and don't actually want the context of your scans to be shown).

You might want to stick to scans from AFTER the point where Flash obtains FTL abilities, by the by. Posting stuff from before 1995 means you're posting them from before Wally merged with the Speed Force and gained his most notorious powerup. That'd be like me going back to the 1980s where Superman couldn't beat Flash in a race when Flash could only run like mach 5 and pointing out how slow Superman is -- he gets faster and more powerful as continuity went on. You show a fundamental misunderstanding of both lore and continuity and merely post out of context scans from stories you've never read, and in some cases literally don't even read your own scans (Jay Garrick vs Black Adam), to try to tell people how much you think Flash sucks.

It's fine, we don't care. You're a dime a dozen. You are not the first person to make horrendous posts about a character they know nothing about because you don't like people saying who wins in a hypothetical battle. Whoopdee doo. If you hate us all so much for exalting Flash then you're welcome to stop posting.

Since I posted the "Auto Win button - Wally' scenario in another Battle thread let me defend it here as well...

firstly...

this is important... all those bolded points are why I said a Wally, especially bloodlusted and not held back by PIS/CIS/WIS, would be so hard to beat....

firstly what you are showing as evidence is a comic book, which to tell a story is filled with CIS, PIS, WIS etc. I direct you to the battles forum rules:Battle Forum Rules. and I will quote a few paragraphs...

"PIS and CIS

These are terms commonly used on battle forums on other sites and most of us know what they mean. For those who don’t, PIS is “plot induced stupidity” and CIS is “character induced stupidity”. PIS/”jobbing” is when a character loses for the sake of plot despite the fact that they should be able to win. CIS is when a character loses because an aspect of the character (usually a lack of intelligence) gets in his own way. Superman losing to Batman would be PIS is most cases since Superman is perfectly capable of beating Batman in a number of ways before he can react. Sandman losing to Spider-Man is CIS because Sandman isn’t all that smart so Spider-Man, who is less powerful and should be easy to beat, can outsmart him and find victory.

Determining what is done for the plot and what is done because of the characters involved can be hard for some people. Superman is a prime case. In comics, Superman rarely uses his speed offensively. This is done for plot, to prolong the story and make it interesting (though it can also be said that it's a part of his character and not done solely because it benefits the story). In comics, Superman doesn’t kill. He does not spare his enemies because of the plot, he spares them because it’s part of his character not to kill thanks to how he was raised. In battles on the forum we include CIS, but not PIS, so Superman uses his speed but generally doesn’t kill unless otherwise stated. (“Bloodlust”)

This kind of gets into “bad writing”. It’s a term that gets thrown around a lot but one I don’t think always applies. Not every fight where the more powerful/capable character loses is bad writing. Situations can determine the winner just as much as the characters themselves so those should be taken into account before judging if a win “should” have happened or not."

... many of your scans show PIS sir. It is great for a story but in a battle forum (such as Comic Vine) where bloodlusted Wally will not be hindered, by a story or PIS/CIS, would be hard to win against. That is why we have Battle forums, to eliminate stories and such and get to the gist of whether A can beat B, otherwise we would just read the comics themselves.

If Flash has a power, attosecond/femtosecond/nanosecond etc speed powered by some seemingly omniversal mysterious Speed Force that allows him to IMP, speed steal, speed lend etc and has demonstrated the ability to do it before (this is where scans come in), with some consistency as well (not a once off come from nowhere type of power... #lookingatyouSentry) then Flash can do it here in a Battle Forum. Just because a comic, which must adhere to PIS and such for a story, shows Flash being tripped and beaten by Deathstroke =/= Deathstroke actually has a chance against Flash for real. After all if Flash was moving at attosecond speeds how would Deathstroke even trip him? As for the others where you post various incarnations of Flash (or different aged Flash) umm yeah...

So it is not a theory but a fact... Flash has said power, he has demonstrated such power = he can do such power. Just because he does not utilize such a power in a comic for the sake of a story doesn't invalidate the former.

Flash is on the level of Superman characters, many characters get defeated by other characters that should not even breathe air next to them, why? Because it is a story.

The reason he doesn't IMP thousands of times, speed steals etc half the time is because WHO WOULD BUY THAT COMIC? A one panel comic where it shows the villian, then attosecond Wally, then 'THE END'. No story, nothing but 'wham, bam and thank you ma'am' (actually not even that just "ma'am"). It's the reason everyone does that, Superman/ WW/ Thor/ SS/ Galuctus/ Odin/ Darkseid etcnever utilize their full powers and abilities from the get go because that would be a boring comic. Also what proof you do you have that he couldn't do that to Superman level characters?

As for the Thor comment, you are being egregious sir. You account for Thor using various powers even when he forgets he can do said such powers, and forget that Wally has done said powers against people like Mongul/AMAZO (with the JLA powers)/Spectre/ Hal etc and also doesn't do it at other times, never mind that he has held his own so your never comment is wrong.

We use logic sir PRIMARILY, and feats to gauge a character's strengths and weaknesses. Not PIS, inconsistencies etc. If Thor can bfr via a vortex then he can bfr an opponent via a vortex... just because he doesn't do it to hulk =/= Thor is less than Hulk. On panel is not the be all and end all, logic is. That is why PIS exists, because on panel scans can be illogical.

good day