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Avatar image for shirso
#51 Posted by shirso (4493 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

You have no proof to suggest they're faster, Ulquiorra doesn't need to fly away to avoid the quakes, even so his flight speed is clearly faster than hypersonic+ he was blitzing a Masked Bankai Ichigo whilst flying

Real world quakes don't affect islands that far away so quickly. You can't really "dodge" the AoE of those quakes. He is pretty much introducing vibrations into the very air itself. The only argument to be made is if Ulquiorra just flies as far away as he can right at the beginning and spams nukes, which isn't ic.

Scan of this please.

No Caption Provided

It's even more impressive than I remembered. Seem WB intercepted him after he was already in his light form and starting to move.

We have no understanding of that title whatsoever, he could have achieved it decades ago and merely held onto the title without remaining the strongest. Akainu has what speed feats?

Whether old WB was stronger than the likes of Linlin or Kaido is quite controversial in the fanbase, but he was still portrayed as a top tier Yonko, in spite of his age, and mid diffed the strongest Admiral (Akainu) while half dead himself. I think it's safe to say Kaido can't blitz him as casually as he did Boundman Luffy. So at the very least he should scale above current Boundman Luffy in speed, if not to Kaido. That level of speed is more than enough to keep up.

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#52 Edited by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@limitlesssigil:

You have no proof to suggest they're faster, Ulquiorra doesn't need to fly away to avoid the quakes, even so his flight speed is clearly faster than hypersonic+ he was blitzing a Masked Bankai Ichigo whilst flying

Real world quakes don't affect islands that far away so quickly. You can't really "dodge" the AoE of those quakes. He is pretty much introducing vibrations into the very air itself. The only argument to be made is if Ulquiorra just flies as far away as he can right at the beginning and spams nukes, which isn't ic.

They can be dodged and Ulquiorra is more than fast enough to do so.

Scan of this please.

No Caption Provided

It's even more impressive than I remembered. Seem WB intercepted him after he was already in his light form and starting to move.

I can't really tell whats happening in that scan tbh, it just shows Whitebeard slicing Kizaru, infact it shows Kizaru still partially humanoid which means to me atleast that he hadn't fully begun to move in his light form.

We have no understanding of that title whatsoever, he could have achieved it decades ago and merely held onto the title without remaining the strongest. Akainu has what speed feats?

Whether old WB was stronger than the likes of Linlin or Kaido is quite controversial in the fanbase, but he was still portrayed as a top tier Yonko, in spite of his age, and mid diffed the strongest Admiral (Akainu) while half dead himself. I think it's safe to say Kaido can't blitz him as casually as he did Boundman Luffy. So at the very least he should scale above current Boundman Luffy in speed, if not to Kaido. That level of speed is more than enough to keep up.

I disagree, you don't need to be as fast as someone to rival them in power, Whitebeard to me at least has always been portrayed as a physically strong and a DC reliant fighter.

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#53 Posted by FaradaySloth (10091 posts) - - Show Bio

Akainu would get one-shotted from Ulquiorra so WB keeping up and matching him doesn't change anything.

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#55 Edited by Undre (3828 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: lol akainu was tanking his punches point blank i doubt they would do anything to ulqioria. When barrigan tanked 2 moutain busting attacks from soifon bankia

Scaling from Masked ichigo whos in the 4 digit machs he should easily blitz WB who has no speed feats

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#56 Posted by shirso (4493 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

They can be dodged and Ulquiorra is more than fast enough to do so.

He is making the air itself crack and vibrate with his powers, how do you dodge something like that? This is not a concentrated blast for instance that conventional "dodging" will work. He just punched the air and it made two massive tsunamis instantly. He grabbed the air and tilted tectonic plates. That's a level of AoE you can't dodge unless Ulquiorra literally starts the fight by flying miles away.

He can just punch the air in Ulquiorra's general direction which would at least leave him dazed and vulnerable to further attacks. Then a direct hit ends him. WB doing the same thing smashed two small mountain sized icebergs instantly.

No Caption Provided

So yeah all he needs to do is punch the air in Ulquiorra's general direction.

I can't really tell whats happening in that scan tbh, it just shows Whitebeard slicing Kizaru, infact it shows Kizaru still partially humanoid which means to me atleast that he hadn't fully begun to move in his light form.

You see Kizaru transforming into photos and the photons starting to go after Luffy when he says "I won't let you go" and then WB slices him.

I disagree, you don't need to be as fast as someone to rival them in power, Whitebeard to me at least has always been portrayed as a physically strong and a DC reliant fighter.

If he can't at least keep up with a drunk, casual Kaido, who blitzed the crap out of Boundman, Newgate would be irrelevant in the New World. He would be a statue to any other Yonko which is nonsensical. Let alone command the amount of respect and fear he still did. And he scales directly to Akainu.

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#57 Edited by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@limitlesssigil:

They can be dodged and Ulquiorra is more than fast enough to do so.

He is making the air itself crack and vibrate with his powers, how do you dodge something like that? This is not a concentrated blast for instance that conventional "dodging" will work. He just punched the air and it made two massive tsunamis instantly. He grabbed the air and tilted tectonic plates. That's a level of AoE you can't dodge unless Ulquiorra literally starts the fight by flying miles away.

You say it like it's invisible, but this clearly isn't the case. When whitebeard fired a quake at the execution stand literally everyone there remarked about it and the 3 admirals intercepted it.

He can just punch the air in Ulquiorra's general direction which would at least leave him dazed and vulnerable to further attacks. Then a direct hit ends him. WB doing the same thing smashed two small mountain sized icebergs instantly.

No Caption Provided

So yeah all he needs to do is punch the air in Ulquiorra's general direction.

I can't really tell whats happening in that scan tbh, it just shows Whitebeard slicing Kizaru, infact it shows Kizaru still partially humanoid which means to me atleast that he hadn't fully begun to move in his light form.

You see Kizaru transforming into photos and the photons starting to go after Luffy when he says "I won't let you go" and then WB slices him.

So he hadn't actually started movie when he was sliced by Whitebeard.

I disagree, you don't need to be as fast as someone to rival them in power, Whitebeard to me at least has always been portrayed as a physically strong and a DC reliant fighter.

If he can't at least keep up with a drunk, casual Kaido, who blitzed the crap out of Boundman, Newgate would be irrelevant in the New World. He would be a statue to any other Yonko which is nonsensical. Let alone command the amount of respect and fear he still did. And he scales directly to Akainu.

Again, you don't need to be as fast as someone to rival them in power, who in the Yonko except Shanks would actually try and dodge an attack from Whitebeard?

Kaido? Nope

Big Mom? Nope

Shanks? Maybe

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#58 Edited by SkySanji (4909 posts) - - Show Bio

@valorknight said:

@skysanji:

No because you are deliberately lowballing at this point.

I can't be lowballing, as he literally got shot and died. I'm not extrapolating anything, as that's exactly what happened.

Again we are talking about a Healthy Whitebeard here hence your lowballing by using his feats from when he was sick....

Strongest man in the world doesn't just mean physical strength.....we are talking about overall power and we know we are talking about overall power because he got this after Roger died so it has nothing to do with his devil fruit.

Prove that it meant overall power. Give me a scan with a character saying that. If you can't, then it obviously isn't talking about overall strength considering the feats we were given.

No Caption Provided

That's the end of that arguement, he's the world's strongest pirate.

and we saw Rayleigh fight Kizaru to a stand still and even had him retreat

Again, Rayleigh isn't Whitebeard; they don't scale at all whatsoever.

Already went over this Whitebeard is the world's strongest Pirate he's more powerful than Rayleigh and there is no refuting it, It's Even Worse When Whitebeard fought Roger to a stand still and Rayleigh is Roger's right handman clearly he Is weaker than both Whitebeard and Roger

Is a healthy Whitebeard slower than Rayleigh and Kizaru now?

Do you have feats to prove otherwise? No? Alright then.

No feats,but statements from Buggy who was on the Pirate kings ship And Witnessed all of it first hand telling us Whitebeard and Roger fought at and stand still, now that Roger passed Whitebeard is the strongest in the world

Even though he was labeled the strongest man in the world after Roger passed.

Strongest, not fastest or most durable.

So what i'm getting from you us if the author doesn't outright say he's faster, more durable or vastly outstats a character even though he's given the title the world's strongest and fought with the Pirate kings to a stand still then he isn't, do you see how nonsensical that sounds?

Your basically reaching and saying "his title says he's the strongest therefore they are only talking about physicals" which makes no sense whatsoever because again he fought Roger to a stand still and was still considered weaker than him until Roger passed and then he got the title

You see that's the problem your using his actual feats meaning you are using a sick Whitebeard here since that's all we saw, he's Healthy here.

You can't prove that he was faster or more durable while healthy. It's as simple as that. If you can show me actual feats, I'll drop my argument right now.

He has no feats since he was sick at the time he was introduced in the story but through scaling and statements he's the strongest barring Gold d. Roger so he's above characters who would Ragdoll Ulquiorra

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#60 Posted by FaradaySloth (10091 posts) - - Show Bio

There isn't a single OP character that could "ragdoll" Ulquiorra, time to get out of the echo chamber...

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#61 Posted by shirso (4493 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

You say it like it's invisible, but this clearly isn't the case. When whitebeard fired a quake at the execution stand literally everyone there remarked about it and the 3 admirals intercepted it.

Yeah they felt the vibrations travelling through the air, they didn't see it. The Admirals intercepted it, not dodge.

Nobody ever dodged a quake punch from WB because you can't dodge an attack like that. Dodging WB's quake punch is equivalent to dodging a real world earthquake, which is nonsensical, unless as I have been saying, Ulquiorra literally flies many miles away the instant the fight starts.

And didn't you see the scan I posted? He merely punched the air and it shattered those two massive icebergs, he can send seismic like vibrations though the air, that's his entire power.

So he hadn't actually started movie when he was sliced by Whitebeard.

Depends entirely on your stand. We do see the photons starting to move before WB slices it which would technically be LS, but people would obviously crucify me for that, so I will settle for he did it before Kizaru could complete an attack, which is still pretty damn fast.

Again, you don't need to be as fast as someone to rival them in power, who in the Yonko except Shanks would actually try and dodge an attack from Whitebeard?

Kaido? Nope

Big Mom? Nope

Shanks? Maybe

It's not about tagging them with his attacks, it's about not getting lol blitzed to oblivion. Let's say WB is slower than G4 Luffy. How do you think a fight between him and Kaido, (someone who while drunk and in his human form casually blitzed G4) would go in that case?

Kaido if serious would just keep on blitzing him again and again, if WB was really that slow, which wouldn't make WB the threat he is at all.

And why are you ignoring the fact he overpowered Akainu in cqc? Unless you think Kaido can blitz Akainu as easily as he did Boundman, WB at the very least scales massively above Boundman.

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#62 Posted by AllHellKingDox (322 posts) - - Show Bio

Whitebeard has pissy ass durability normal swords and bullets pierced him and one of his strongest quakes failed to knock down a metal wall come on now. All the post about his aoe are irrelevant as it not a controlled aoe attack so ulq still dodges. R2 ulq 1 shots all i see is shitting scaling no actaul feats.

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#63 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@limitlesssigil:

You say it like it's invisible, but this clearly isn't the case. When whitebeard fired a quake at the execution stand literally everyone there remarked about it and the 3 admirals intercepted it.

Yeah they felt the vibrations travelling through the air, they didn't see it. The Admirals intercepted it, not dodge.

Nobody ever dodged a quake punch from WB because you can't dodge an attack like that. Dodging WB's quake punch is equivalent to dodging a real world earthquake, which is nonsensical, unless as I have been saying, Ulquiorra literally flies many miles away the instant the fight starts.

Just because no ones done it doesn't make it impossible, this is the realm of fiction after all. If fodder marines were able to feel and know where it was going, why can't Ulquiorra do the same?

And didn't you see the scan I posted? He merely punched the air and it shattered those two massive icebergs, he can send seismic like vibrations though the air, that's his entire power.

I saw it

So he hadn't actually started movie when he was sliced by Whitebeard.

Depends entirely on your stand. We do see the photons starting to move before WB slices it which would technically be LS, but people would obviously crucify me for that, so I will settle for he did it before Kizaru could complete an attack, which is still pretty damn fast.

If you're willing to call that LS then you may aswell say Kizaru is Light-speed and Basil Hawkins is Relativistic for reacting to Kizaru's light-speed kick. (Before you say it, I know you're not saying it was LS, I'm talking hypothetically.)

Again, you don't need to be as fast as someone to rival them in power, who in the Yonko except Shanks would actually try and dodge an attack from Whitebeard?

Kaido? Nope

Big Mom? Nope

Shanks? Maybe

It's not about tagging them with his attacks, it's about not getting lol blitzed to oblivion. Let's say WB is slower than G4 Luffy. How do you think a fight between him and Kaido, (someone who while drunk and in his human form casually blitzed G4) would go in that case?

Again, we don't know very much about Whitebeard, for all we know he could have earned the Yonko title decades ago and has merely held onto it all this time whilst being hindered by age.

Kaido if serious would just keep on blitzing him again and again, if WB was really that slow, which wouldn't make WB the threat he is at all.

And why are you ignoring the fact he overpowered Akainu in cqc?

Because it's irrelevant

Unless you think Kaido can blitz Akainu as easily as he did Boundman

Do you have proof that says otherwise? You're using Whitebeard as the standard here, and comparing him to the other Yonko when that might be entirely wrong, Whitebeard was far past his prime and it stands to reason that he wouldn't stand a chance against Kaido at his Marineford condition if they were to fight. The entire thing is speculation and depends entirely on how strong you want WB to be.

, WB at the very least scales massively above Boundman.

In speed, there's no evidence for this.

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#64 Posted by shirso (4493 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

Just because no ones done it doesn't make it impossible, this is the realm of fiction after all. If fodder marines were able to feel and know where it was going, why can't Ulquiorra do the same?

Yeah they felt it, what about it? You and I would also feel a vibration of that magnitude travelling through the air. Ulquiorra will "feel" it sure, he just cant dodge it.

Tell me, can you "dodge" an earthquake in real life? No, right. WB's powers work the same way, except he can introduce so called "earthquakes" into the very air itself, so even flight isn't an option. The only option is instantly moving many many miles away out of the earthquake's zone of influence.

I saw it

So why are you still debating this? Do you believe Ulquiorra can outpace or "dodge" a small mountain wide AoE attack from 10-20 metres?

If you're willing to call that LS then you may aswell say Kizaru is Light-speed and Basil Hawkins is Relativistic for reacting to Kizaru's light-speed kick. (Before you say it, I know you're not saying it was LS, I'm talking hypothetically.)

That's a misleading analogy. Nobody on this sit claims Kizaru has LS combat speed unless he gets more feats. What he does have though, is LS travel speed with Yata no. This is unanimously agreed. So stopping or intercepting him once he is in his light form would be technically LS.

Because it's irrelevant

Huh, no. Akainu directly scales to Aokiji who has quad mach feats.

Do you have proof that says otherwise? You're using Whitebeard as the standard here, and comparing him to the other Yonko when that might be entirely wrong, Whitebeard was far past his prime and it stands to reason that he wouldn't stand a chance against Kaido at his Marineford condition if they were to fight. The entire thing is speculation and depends entirely on how strong you want WB to be.

If you go strictly by feats, no, because Akainu hasn't fought Kaido on panel. But anyone who reads OP can understand why Kaido casually blitzing the Fleet Admiral of the Marines is ridiculous. Story hierarchy and plot does count in cases like these, it's a pretty prominent even in Bleach.

In speed, there's no evidence for this.

Yeah,provided you completely throw what the story shows us out the window and be a full on feat monger.

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#65 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@limitlesssigil:

Just because no ones done it doesn't make it impossible, this is the realm of fiction after all. If fodder marines were able to feel and know where it was going, why can't Ulquiorra do the same?

Yeah they felt it, what about it? You and I would also feel a vibration of that magnitude travelling through the air. Ulquiorra will "feel" it sure, he just cant dodge it.

Tell me, can you "dodge" an earthquake in real life?

Yes you can, if you're floating in the air not connected to the ground you won't feel an earthquake, Seismic wave's need something physical to travel between, unlike OP they don't travel through the air, which again is why I said WB's power is more like Shockwaves than Seismic waves.

No, right. WB's powers work the same way, except he can introduce so called "earthquakes" into the very air itself, so even flight isn't an option. The only option is instantly moving many many miles away out of the earthquake's zone of influence.

I saw it

So why are you still debating this? Do you believe Ulquiorra can outpace or "dodge" a small mountain wide AoE attack from 10-20 metres?

Depending on how fast it's travelling yes.

If you're willing to call that LS then you may aswell say Kizaru is Light-speed and Basil Hawkins is Relativistic for reacting to Kizaru's light-speed kick. (Before you say it, I know you're not saying it was LS, I'm talking hypothetically.)

That's a misleading analogy. Nobody on this sit claims Kizaru has LS combat speed unless he gets more feats. What he does have though, is LS travel speed with Yata no. This is unanimously agreed. So stopping or intercepting him once he is in his light form would be technically LS.

You just said people would crucify you for calling that LS but here you are claiming it's LS? What?

Because it's irrelevant

Huh, no. Akainu directly scales to Aokiji who has quad mach feats.

How does Aokiji have quad mach feats?

Do you have proof that says otherwise? You're using Whitebeard as the standard here, and comparing him to the other Yonko when that might be entirely wrong, Whitebeard was far past his prime and it stands to reason that he wouldn't stand a chance against Kaido at his Marineford condition if they were to fight. The entire thing is speculation and depends entirely on how strong you want WB to be.

If you go strictly by feats, no, because Akainu hasn't fought Kaido on panel. But anyone who reads OP can understand why Kaido casually blitzing the Fleet Admiral of the Marines is ridiculous. Story hierarchy and plot does count in cases like these, it's a pretty prominent even in Bleach.

Perhaps Akainu just has good combat speed?

In speed, there's no evidence for this.

Yeah,provided you completely throw what the story shows us out the window and be a full on feat monger.

Nothing in the series portrays an extremely old Whitebeard being faster than a G4 Luffy.

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#66 Posted by shirso (4493 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

Yes you can, if you're floating in the air not connected to the ground you won't feel an earthquake, Seismic wave's need something physical to travel between, unlike OP they don't travel through the air, which again is why I said WB's power is more like Shockwaves than Seismic waves.

Apart from the fact WB's power was literally described as being able to create earthquakes and WB himself being described as an Earthquake man, this is just wrong anyway.

All of his feats, like tilting the ocean and tectonic plates, causing tsunamis and shaking islands far away are consistent with the effects of real world 9 and above Richter scale earthquakes. You can't achieve that kind of effect with shockwaves or ordinary vibrations, and WB did all those feats simply by punching or grabbing the air. WB creates seismic waves, he can just transfer them with the same power to a medium like air which isn't possible irl.

Depending on how fast it's travelling yes.

Didn't we agree before its at least hypersonic, possibly even more as they were being felt extremely far away really fast?

You just said people would crucify you for calling that LS but here you are claiming it's LS? What?

I was referring to you briging up Hawkins and Kizaru kicking him. If WB did intercept Kizaru in light form, he would indeed be LS but since the scan doesn't make that 100% clear I will settle for him intercepting Kizaru before the latter could finish an attack.

How does Aokiji have quad mach feats?

Freezing Doflamingo along with a large swathe of land in the time the latter moved his arm about a metre.

Perhaps Akainu just has good combat speed?

?????????? So good combat speed wouldn't allow him to react to a blitz from Kaido? Reactions don't translate to combat, but combat speed requires both reactions and attack speed. Anyone who can fight at MHS speeds can obviously react to MHS attacks. The vice versa isn't always true.

Nothing in the series portrays an extremely old Whitebeard being faster than a G4 Luffy.

Yeah if you believe G4 Luffy can blitz Admirals, sure.

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#67 Posted by FaradaySloth (10091 posts) - - Show Bio
@shirso said:

So why are you still debating this? Do you believe Ulquiorra can outpace or "dodge" a small mountain wide AoE attack from 10-20 metres?

Yes, he can easily do this. He crossed the Canopy of LN casually while it took Uryu's Hirenyaku pad around 20-30 seconds. Hirenyaku is base Mach at least. That's High Hypersonic Travel speed, and he could casually cross that AoE. He did this in base too.

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#68 Edited by ValorKnight (12412 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji:

Again we are talking about a Healthy Whitebeard here hence your lowballing by using his feats from when he was sick....

Show me feats proving that he would do better if he wasn't. I'm not lowballing, you're simply assuming with no evidence to back up your claims.

That's the end of that arguement, he's the world's strongest pirate.

The strongest, not the fastest or most durable.

and we saw Rayleigh fight Kizaru to a stand still and even had him retreat

Whitebeard isn't Rayleigh.

Already went over this Whitebeard is the world's strongest Pirate he's more powerful than Rayleigh and there is no refuting it, It's Even Worse When Whitebeard fought Roger to a stand still and Rayleigh is Roger's right handman clearly he Is weaker than both Whitebeard and Roger

I'm not refuting the fact that Whitebeard is stronger than Rayleigh, I'm refuting your unfounded headcanon that he was as fast as him simply because he was called the strongest pirate in the world (a statement that would only apply to physical strength, a fact that you have no way to disprove).

No feats,but statements from Buggy who was on the Pirate kings ship And Witnessed all of it first hand telling us Whitebeard and Roger fought at and stand still, now that Roger passed Whitebeard is the strongest in the world

How many times do I need to say it before you understand? Being called the "strongest" doesn't have anything to do with speed or durability, especially in the case of someone like Whitebeard who has feats directly contradicting that.

So what i'm getting from you us if the author doesn't outright say he's faster, more durable or vastly outstats a character even though he's given the title the world's strongest and fought with the Pirate kings to a stand still then he isn't

Yes, especially when the actual feats presented in the manga agree with me.

do you see how nonsensical that sounds?

I do not; you're reaching at best and wanking at worst.

Your basically reaching and saying "his title says he's the strongest therefore they are only talking about physicals" which makes no sense whatsoever because again he fought Roger to a stand still and was still considered weaker than him until Roger passed and then he got the title

Roger has no speed feats either, so this means nothing. If you want to prove something, providing actual on panel feats would be a nice first step.

You see that's the problem your using his actual feats meaning you are using a sick Whitebeard here since that's all we saw, he's Healthy here.

Show me feats for a healthy Whitebeard, then. If you can't, then assuming he would be faster and more durable is nothing but baseless assumption on your part.

He has no feats since he was sick at the time he was introduced in the story but through scaling and statements he's the strongest barring Gold d. Roger so he's above characters who would Ragdoll Ulquiorra

Whitebeard doesn't scale to anyone in anything but strength. In speed and durability, he has shit for feats and nothing is going to change that.

he's above characters who would Ragdoll Ulquiorra

This is legitimately hilarious. I'm not going to waste my time replying to someone who thinks Ulquiorra would get "ragdolled" by anyone in One Piece.

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#69 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@limitlesssigil:

Yes you can, if you're floating in the air not connected to the ground you won't feel an earthquake, Seismic wave's need something physical to travel between, unlike OP they don't travel through the air, which again is why I said WB's power is more like Shockwaves than Seismic waves.

Apart from the fact WB's power was literally described as being able to create earthquakes and WB himself being described as an Earthquake man, this is just wrong anyway.

All of his feats, like tilting the ocean and tectonic plates, causing tsunamis and shaking islands far away are consistent with the effects of real world 9 and above Richter scale earthquakes. You can't achieve that kind of effect with shockwaves or ordinary vibrations, and WB did all those feats simply by punching or grabbing the air. WB creates seismic waves, he can just transfer them with the same power to a medium like air which isn't possible irl.

So we're just to assume his waves are Seismic and that he can somehow make them travel through air even though this is scientifically impossible instead of assuming they're shockwaves? That seems kind of illogical.

Depending on how fast it's travelling yes.

Didn't we agree before its at least hypersonic, possibly even more as they were being felt extremely far away really fast?

At the very best they would be Hypersonic, since Seismic waves range from 1-8km/s depending on how close to the earths mantle they are, since they're used at surface level, saying they're 2 Km/s isn't lowball. Ulquiorra is much faster than Hypersonic though, so I don't understand why them being Hypersonic matters.

You just said people would crucify you for calling that LS but here you are claiming it's LS? What?

I was referring to you briging up Hawkins and Kizaru kicking him. If WB did intercept Kizaru in light form, he would indeed be LS but since the scan doesn't make that 100% clear I will settle for him intercepting Kizaru before the latter could finish an attack.

How does Aokiji have quad mach feats?

Freezing Doflamingo along with a large swathe of land in the time the latter moved his arm about a metre.

How is that quad mach lol. That sounds extremely off.

Perhaps Akainu just has good combat speed?

?????????? So good combat speed wouldn't allow him to react to a blitz from Kaido? Reactions don't translate to combat, but combat speed requires both reactions and attack speed. Anyone who can fight at MHS speeds can obviously react to MHS attacks. The vice versa isn't always true.

I've noticed from this discussion so far that, the speed in OP is completely inconsistent and illogical. As you said though, reactions don't translate to combat, it's possible to have a MHS combat speed with a slower reaction speed.

Nothing in the series portrays an extremely old Whitebeard being faster than a G4 Luffy.

Yeah if you believe G4 Luffy can blitz Admirals, sure.

I'm clearly not wording things properly, when I refer to "Faster" I'm talking about travel speed, I know this is bad, there are many subcategories. G4 Luffy is undoubtedly much faster in terms of travel speed than WB.

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#70 Edited by SkySanji (4909 posts) - - Show Bio

@valorknight said:

@skysanji:

Again we are talking about a Healthy Whitebeard here hence your lowballing by using his feats from when he was sick....

Show me feats proving that he would do better if he wasn't. I'm not lowballing, you're simply assuming with no evidence to back up your claims.

Again he has no feats when we saw Whitebeard in the story he was sick, he'll even in his introduction he was attached to a machine.

That's the end of that arguement, he's the world's strongest pirate.

The strongest, not the fastest or most durable.

He fought the Pirate kings to a stand still and Rayleigh is the Pirate kings right hand man they are talking about overall power not just physicals

and we saw Rayleigh fight Kizaru to a stand still and even had him retreat

Whitebeard isn't Rayleigh, Correct he isn't but him in a weakened state already tagged Kizaru

Already went over this Whitebeard is the world's strongest Pirate he's more powerful than Rayleigh and there is no refuting it, It's Even Worse When Whitebeard fought Roger to a stand still and Rayleigh is Roger's right handman clearly he Is weaker than both Whitebeard and Roger

I'm not refuting the fact that Whitebeard is stronger than Rayleigh, I'm refuting your unfounded headcanon that he was as fast as him simply because he was called the strongest pirate in the world (a statement that would only apply to physical strength, a fact that you have no way to disprove).

Other than Buggy telling us Whitebeard and Gold Roger fought to a stand still and Rayleigh is Roger's right hand man automatically making him weaker than the two.

No feats,but statements from Buggy who was on the Pirate kings ship And Witnessed all of it first hand telling us Whitebeard and Roger fought at and stand still, now that Roger passed Whitebeard is the strongest in the world

How many times do I need to say it before you understand? Being called the "strongest" doesn't have anything to do with speed or durability, especially in the case of someone like Whitebeard who has feats directly contradicting that.

Feats, feats, feats the same feats wevery only seen in Marineford and I already shit down your claim using those same feats him while weakened already tagged Kizaru

No Caption Provided

So a healthy Whitebeard would demolish him in speed,next

So what i'm getting from you us if the author doesn't outright say he's faster, more durable or vastly outstats a character even though he's given the title the world's strongest and fought with the Pirate kings to a stand still then he isn't

Yes, especially when the actual feats presented in the manga agree with me.

A sick Whitebeard, Op says Whitebeard is healthy here BUT Whitebeard has no feats while healthy other than a statement so we use that to put him as the strongest character after Gold d. Roger

do you see how nonsensical that sounds?

I do not; you're reaching at best and wanking at worst.

I'm reaching? You make no sense whatsoever I've showed you scans of them saying Whitebeard is the strongest pirate alive meanwhile Kaidou who casually blitzed a Gear 4 Luffy is called the strongest creature alive even after Whitebeard passes away and you want to say I'm reaching and wanking.

Your basically reaching and saying "his title says he's the strongest therefore they are only talking about physicals" which makes no sense whatsoever because again he fought Roger to a stand still and was still considered weaker than him until Roger passed and then he got the title

Roger has no speed feats either, so this means nothing. If you want to prove something, providing actual on panel feats would be a nice first step.

Roger has no feats.... But lol that doesnt mean you can't use statement for him being the most powerful character in the series.

You see that's the problem your using his actual feats meaning you are using a sick Whitebeard here since that's all we saw, he's Healthy here.

Show me feats for a healthy Whitebeard, then. If you can't, then assuming he would be faster and more durable is nothing but baseless assumption on your part.

Already went over this, this attempt to desperately hold onto this fallacious arguement.... I'm deceased

He has no feats since he was sick at the time he was introduced in the story but through scaling and statements he's the strongest barring Gold d. Roger so he's above characters who would Ragdoll Ulquiorra

Whitebeard doesn't scale to anyone in anything but strength. In speed and durability, he has shit for feats and nothing is going to change that.

Kizaru scan says otherwise, durability you can say whatever you want but strength and Speed he has the advantage.

he's above characters who would Ragdoll Ulquiorra

This is legitimately hilarious. I'm not going to waste my time replying to someone who thinks Ulquiorra would get "ragdolled" by anyone in One Piece.

Just look up Kaidou vs VL and Segunda Etapa Ulq I guess more than 80% of people are hilarious in thinking that right?

What about Katakuri vs Ulquiorra?

Doflamingo vs Ulquiorra

Akainu vs Ulquiorra

Fujitora vs. Ulquiorra?

Are they crazy as well?

It's clear as day who the crazy fanboys are on these threads....

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#71 Posted by ValorKnight (12412 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: I'm not even going to read your post. I've already debunked your argument twice, and I'm tired of walking in circles.

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#72 Posted by SkySanji (4909 posts) - - Show Bio

@valorknight: you didn't Debunk anything it's the complete opposite I've debunked your claims with scans each time.

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#73 Posted by shirso (4493 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil

:So we're just to assume his waves are Seismic and that he can somehow make them travel through air even though this is scientifically impossible instead of assuming they're shockwaves? That seems kind of illogical.

No assumptions here, he does make them travel through air. That's shown literally every single time he uses a quake punch. Heck, the air is explicitly shown to crack every time he uses his powers.

And mind explaining how you can replicate tilting tectonic plates with a normal shockwave?

At the very best they would be Hypersonic, since Seismic waves range from 1-8km/s depending on how close to the earths mantle they are, since they're used at surface level, saying they're 2 Km/s isn't lowball. Ulquiorra is much faster than Hypersonic though, so I don't understand why them being Hypersonic matters.

The speed's not the only issue, there's also the AoE and a serious WB would keep on spamming these quakes at Ulquiorra. Flying incredibly far away and nuking isn't ic for Ulquiorra. He will try cqc and get one shotted.

How is that quad mach lol. That sounds extremely off.

I made a few calcs of OP speed a while back, and everyone pretty much unanimously accepted them. Anyway quad machs here is for Aokiji's flash freeze speed and it comes because he froze dozens of metres before a MHS character like Doffy could move his hand a metre.

I can link you the thread, here:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/quantifying-a-few-one-piece-speed-feats-1997961/

I've noticed from this discussion so far that, the speed in OP is completely inconsistent and illogical. As you said though, reactions don't translate to combat, it's possible to have a MHS combat speed with a slower reaction speed.

Well I'll be damned. All this time I thought you had read the series lol and so knew the major speed feats. But no, OP does have plenty of quantifiable, consistent MHS feats. It's true that some scaling is needed for the top tiers though, because we haven't really seen the top tiers fight seriously barring WB vs Akainu.

I said reactions don't translate to combat, not the other way round. You can't have good combat speed without equally good reactions. The reverse is possible and extremely common (for instance Deathstroke). But you will never see a character who can blitz or keep up with MHS characters but fails to react to MHS attacks.

I'm clearly not wording things properly, when I refer to "Faster" I'm talking about travel speed, I know this is bad, there are many subcategories. G4 Luffy is undoubtedly much faster in terms of travel speed than WB.

G4 Luffy having faster travel speed than old WB? Possible, though I don't see how relevant. Wasn't the entire speed debate because you think Ulquiorra blitzes? So how is travel speed relevant.

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#74 Posted by KingGuinness (1893 posts) - - Show Bio

Whitebeard one shots. He's tier above characters who would stomp Ulquiorra.

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#75 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@limitlesssigil

:So we're just to assume his waves are Seismic and that he can somehow make them travel through air even though this is scientifically impossible instead of assuming they're shockwaves? That seems kind of illogical.

No assumptions here, he does make them travel through air. That's shown literally every single time he uses a quake punch. Heck, the air is explicitly shown to crack every time he uses his powers.

I meant we're to assume his waves are Seismic, not that we're to assume they can travel through the air, this is shown in the Manga.

And mind explaining how you can replicate tilting tectonic plates with a normal shockwave?

Good question, so far it seems he possesses both Seismic and Shock waves

At the very best they would be Hypersonic, since Seismic waves range from 1-8km/s depending on how close to the earths mantle they are, since they're used at surface level, saying they're 2 Km/s isn't lowball. Ulquiorra is much faster than Hypersonic though, so I don't understand why them being Hypersonic matters.

The speed's not the only issue, there's also the AoE and a serious WB would keep on spamming these quakes at Ulquiorra. Flying incredibly far away and nuking isn't ic for Ulquiorra. He will try cqc and get one shotted.

OP says in character, so WB isn't going to spam anything, he'll try and make it CQC. Ulquiorra isn't getting one shot, so even if it takes a quake for him to see he's outmatched CQC he'll try the ranged approach.

How is that quad mach lol. That sounds extremely off.

I made a few calcs of OP speed a while back, and everyone pretty much unanimously accepted them. Anyway quad machs here is for Aokiji's flash freeze speed and it comes because he froze dozens of metres before a MHS character like Doffy could move his hand a metre.

Firstly, him freezing something that fast doesn't give him Quad mach combat speed, not even close, it just means he can freeze things that fast... Secondly, I wanna dissect the meteor feat of which this is all based.

1. A dozen or so fodder Marines who were guarding Caesar when he brought down the meteor were both able to react and retreat a moderate distance before it landed, indicating that this meteor wasn't moving even close to the speeds say a meteor irl straight out of orbit would move at, unless you're suggesting these fodder marines are double digit Mach MINIMUM.

2. You're ignoring the distance the meteor had to travel from orbit towards them, giving; Doflamingo, Law and Fujitora ample time to react and prepare for it while it was still thousands of Meters in the sky.

I can link you the thread, here:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/quantifying-a-few-one-piece-speed-feats-1997961/

I've noticed from this discussion so far that, the speed in OP is completely inconsistent and illogical. As you said though, reactions don't translate to combat, it's possible to have a MHS combat speed with a slower reaction speed.

Well I'll be damned. All this time I thought you had read the series lol and so knew the major speed feats. But no, OP does have plenty of quantifiable, consistent MHS feats. It's true that some scaling is needed for the top tiers though, because we haven't really seen the top tiers fight seriously barring WB vs Akainu.

I have read the series, more than once actually, the speed feats are illogical and inconsistent, I never said they were unquantifiable, just inconsistent. Also saying "Some" scaling is needed for top tiers is a understatement, they entirely need scaling to even exist, next to none of them have any feats whatsoever.

I said reactions don't translate to combat, not the other way round. You can't have good combat speed without equally good reactions. The reverse is possible and extremely common (for instance Deathstroke). But you will never see a character who can blitz or keep up with MHS characters but fails to react to MHS attacks

Not entirely true, your reaction speed doesn't need to be the exact same as your combat speed, it can be slower. With your analogy, you could have a character who can keep up with MHS characters but fail to react to MHS attacks.

I'm clearly not wording things properly, when I refer to "Faster" I'm talking about travel speed, I know this is bad, there are many subcategories. G4 Luffy is undoubtedly much faster in terms of travel speed than WB.

G4 Luffy having faster travel speed than old WB? Possible, though I don't see how relevant. Wasn't the entire speed debate because you think Ulquiorra blitzes? So how is travel speed relevant.

How is travel speed not relevant? To close that 10-20 Meter gap and blitz requires travel speed.

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#76 Posted by SkySanji (4909 posts) - - Show Bio

Whitebeard one shots. He's tier above characters who would stomp Ulquiorra.

As I have been saying

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#77 Posted by shirso (4493 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

OP says in character, so WB isn't going to spam anything, he'll try and make it CQC. Ulquiorra isn't getting one shot, so even if it takes a quake for him to see he's outmatched CQC he'll try the ranged approach.

?? Using quake punches is basically his entire power and gauging by the effects of even his weaker, more casual attacks, Ulquiorra IS getting one shot in cqc.

Firstly, him freezing something that fast doesn't give him Quad mach combat speed, not even close, it just means he can freeze things that fast... Secondly, I wanna dissect the meteor feat of which this is all based.

1. A dozen or so fodder Marines who were guarding Caesar when he brought down the meteor were both able to react and retreat a moderate distance before it landed, indicating that this meteor wasn't moving even close to the speeds say a meteor irl straight out of orbit would move at, unless you're suggesting these fodder marines are double digit Mach MINIMUM.

2. You're ignoring the distance the meteor had to travel from orbit towards them, giving; Doflamingo, Law and Fujitora ample time to react and prepare for it while it was still thousands of Meters in the sky.

The meteorite was instantly visible the moment Fuji raised his sword, and they had to travel from outer space. That's easily Mach 100+.

Yes, it took a second or two to hit the island from the point it was visible, but as I explained, it doesn't diminish Doffy, Law and Fuji's thread because those 3 only started reacting to the attack when it was like a dozen metres from them.

I have read the series, more than once actually, the speed feats are illogical and inconsistent, I never said they were unquantifiable, just inconsistent. Also saying "Some" scaling is needed for top tiers is a understatement, they entirely need scaling to even exist, next to none of them have any feats whatsoever.

No, OP speed is neither illogical nor inconsistent but going into that will derail the thread.

And that's funny since Ulquiorra himself relies entirely on scaling from Ichigo. Don't spew double standards.

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#78 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@limitlesssigil:

OP says in character, so WB isn't going to spam anything, he'll try and make it CQC. Ulquiorra isn't getting one shot, so even if it takes a quake for him to see he's outmatched CQC he'll try the ranged approach.

?? Using quake punches is basically his entire power and gauging by the effects of even his weaker, more casual attacks, Ulquiorra IS getting one shot in cqc.

Akainu took a multiple quakes and was still able to continue even after Whitebeard died, the fact you think Ulquiorra's getting one shot is hilarious.

Firstly, him freezing something that fast doesn't give him Quad mach combat speed, not even close, it just means he can freeze things that fast... Secondly, I wanna dissect the meteor feat of which this is all based.

1. A dozen or so fodder Marines who were guarding Caesar when he brought down the meteor were both able to react and retreat a moderate distance before it landed, indicating that this meteor wasn't moving even close to the speeds say a meteor irl straight out of orbit would move at, unless you're suggesting these fodder marines are double digit Mach MINIMUM.

2. You're ignoring the distance the meteor had to travel from orbit towards them, giving; Doflamingo, Law and Fujitora ample time to react and prepare for it while it was still thousands of Meters in the sky.

The meteorite was instantly visible the moment Fuji raised his sword, and they had to travel from outer space. That's easily Mach 100+.

No timeframe was given so how are you sure of this? It's like me claiming Piccolo destroyed the moon in less than a second even though there's no evidence of this. Infact, even in the Anime it directly contradicts your theory of it being visible instantly.

Yes, it took a second or two to hit the island from the point it was visible, but as I explained, it doesn't diminish Doffy, Law and Fuji's thread because those 3 only started reacting to the attack when it was like a dozen metres from them.

Manga doesn't show this clearly and again Anime contradicts.

I have read the series, more than once actually, the speed feats are illogical and inconsistent, I never said they were unquantifiable, just inconsistent. Also saying "Some" scaling is needed for top tiers is a understatement, they entirely need scaling to even exist, next to none of them have any feats whatsoever.

No, OP speed is neither illogical nor inconsistent but going into that will derail the thread.

And that's funny since Ulquiorra himself relies entirely on scaling from Ichigo. Don't spew double standards.

Where did I say scaling was illogical and inconsistent? I'm saying speed in One Piece is inconsistent because you have characters that are supposedly MHS+ easily being hit by bullets and cannonballs.

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#79 Posted by shirso (4493 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

Akainu took a multiple quakes and was still able to continue even after Whitebeard died, the fact you think Ulquiorra's getting one shot is hilarious.

Akainu was KO'd by his quake and how on earth does Akainu tanking his quakes relate to Ulquiorra at all? Akainu is a top tier of the verse and has the kind of damage soak that would shit all over Bleach. Tell me, who in Bleach has fought for 10 days straight in a fight that permanently changed the climate of the battle field?

By this logic, "Vasto Lorde Ichigo made a joke out of the massively overhyped Lanza so it doing anything to WB is hilarious".

No timeframe was given so how are you sure of this? It's like me claiming Piccolo destroyed the moon in less than a second even though there's no evidence of this. Infact, even in the Anime it directly contradicts your theory of it being visible instantly.

Um, because he raised his sword and the meteorite was visible in the very next panel? The meteorite was also on fire which means it was reentry speed bare minimum.

No Caption Provided

Manga doesn't show this clearly and again Anime contradicts.

Except it does and who cares about the anime which drags single panels into minutes worth of filler anyway.

Where did I say scaling was illogical and inconsistent? I'm saying speed in One Piece is inconsistent because you have characters that are supposedly MHS+ easily being hit by bullets and cannonballs.

Apart from WB, which other character has been tagged by bullets or cannonballs lol. And WB was sick and dying at MF and literally powering through with sheer pain tolerance, not to mention the Yonko generally seem to tank attacks rather than dodge. He did show his combat speed when he intercepted Kizaru and kept up with Akainu.

Also its hilarious since Ulquiorra himself has zero speed feats that don't require scaling from Ichigo.

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#80 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@limitlesssigil:

Akainu took a multiple quakes and was still able to continue even after Whitebeard died, the fact you think Ulquiorra's getting one shot is hilarious.

Akainu was KO'd by his quake and how on earth does Akainu tanking his quakes relate to Ulquiorra at all? Akainu is a top tier of the verse and has the kind of damage soak that would shit all over Bleach. Tell me, who in Bleach has fought for 10 days straight in a fight that permanently changed the climate of the battle field?

Akainu doesn't even make it to the mid-high tiers in Bleach, this was funny though.

By this logic, "Vasto Lorde Ichigo made a joke out of the massively overhyped Lanza so it doing anything to WB is hilarious".

Difference being, that Lanza has feats far greater than any Quake WB hit Akainu with.

No timeframe was given so how are you sure of this? It's like me claiming Piccolo destroyed the moon in less than a second even though there's no evidence of this. Infact, even in the Anime it directly contradicts your theory of it being visible instantly.

Um, because he raised his sword and the meteorite was visible in the very next panel? The meteorite was also on fire which means it was reentry speed bare minimum.

No Caption Provided

Just to add, the meteor would have slowed down drastically upon entering the atmosphere, so it's literally impossible for you to give it a speed.

Manga doesn't show this clearly and again Anime contradicts.

Except it does and who cares about the anime which drags single panels into minutes worth of filler anyway.

Because like I said, it's impossible to know a timeframe in the manga unless it's stated, again with the Piccolo moon feat comparison.

Where did I say scaling was illogical and inconsistent? I'm saying speed in One Piece is inconsistent because you have characters that are supposedly MHS+ easily being hit by bullets and cannonballs.

Apart from WB, which other character has been tagged by bullets or cannonballs lol. And WB was sick and dying at MF and literally powering through with sheer pain tolerance, not to mention the Yonko generally seem to tank attacks rather than dodge. He did show his combat speed when he intercepted Kizaru and kept up with Akainu.

Again, WB being hit by bullets and cannonballs shows how inconsistent the speed in OP is, if he was really MHS+ he would be able to dodge bullets in his sleep.

Also its hilarious since Ulquiorra himself has zero speed feats that don't require scaling from Ichigo.

And unlike WB he doesn't have anything to contradict that scaling.

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#81 Posted by KingGuinness (1893 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

You do realise WB only got hit by bullets and cannons because he didn't bother to dodge them right? Also, Akainu would run through a majority of Bleach if we're being honest with ourselves.

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#82 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingguinness said:

@limitlesssigil:

You do realise WB only got hit by bullets and cannons because he didn't bother to dodge them right? Also, Akainu would run through a majority of Bleach if we're being honest with ourselves.

You do realize it's those cannons and bullets that ended up killing WB right? You assuming he didn't bother to dodge them is lunacy.

And no, Akainu doesn't run through the majority of Bleach.

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#83 Posted by shirso (4493 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

Akainu doesn't even make it to the mid-high tiers in Bleach, this was funny though.

Based on fanboy logic of the 4-5 people who parrot "Lanza gg" in every Ulquiorra thread, sure. Otherwise, entering any Ulquiorra vs OP thread will tell anyone who isn't a fanboy that he isn't even beating the likes of Katakuri, let alone Akainu who beats the crap out of him.

Tell me again, when has Ulquiorra fought for 10 days straight in a battle that permanently changed the climate of an island? Or physically matched a character that can generate Richter 9 earthquakes on a whim.

Difference being, that Lanza has feats far greater than any Quake WB hit Akainu with.

Wait, what feats did Lanza have again, besides a statement about Las Noches (whose size not even the Bleach fanbase itself can agree on) from Ulquiorra himself and breaking a few skyscraper sized pillars with the shockwave of its explosion?

Let's keep this simple, you claim Lanza has better feats than the attack WB hit Akainu with right? Prove it then.

The side effect of WB punching Akainu dozens of feet in the air (WB himself is over 20 ft tall) cracked MF in half so its easily over island lvl. And that was done by a dying WB with half his brain missing.

Prove Lanza has above island lvl potency at the very least , and by prove I mean actually show Lanza destroying an island on panel,not vague extrapolation to "country level Las Noches" which literally nobody agrees on.

Or even show Lanza having anywhere near the potency needed to permanently change an island's climate.

Just to add, the meteor would have slowed down drastically upon entering the atmosphere, so it's literally impossible for you to give it a speed.

Dude, minimumspeed of meteorites which impact the earth is Mach 33, this is a fact, so you are just lowballing for its sake at this point.

Because like I said, it's impossible to know a timeframe in the manga unless it's stated, again with the Piccolo moon feat comparison.

So even when the meteorite was shown to reach from outer space to visible range in a panel, in the time it took for Fuji to raise his sword, mind you, we have to somehow believe that it took hours to reach there just so that you can lowball the feat? By this logic any speed feat ever can be refuted, because no author ever writes out stuff like "the attack happened in 1 nano second" lol.

Again, WB being hit by bullets and cannonballs shows how inconsistent the speed in OP is, if he was really MHS+ he would be able to dodge bullets in his sleep.

Um, did you not read the series? It was a terminally ill, dying WB for crissake who couldn't even use CoO and was not even bothering to dodge insignificant attacks like that and powering through with sheer endurance, and the only instance he was even trying he clobbered an Admiral. You are now just blatantly ignoring context to have Ulquiorra win at any cost.

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#84 Posted by shirso (4493 posts) - - Show Bio

:

@kingguinness said:

@limitlesssigil:

You do realise WB only got hit by bullets and cannons because he didn't bother to dodge them right? Also, Akainu would run through a majority of Bleach if we're being honest with ourselves.

You do realize it's those cannons and bullets that ended up killing WB right? You assuming he didn't bother to dodge them is lunacy.

And no, Akainu doesn't run through the majority of Bleach.

You can't be serious right? Now you are actually making me doubt whether you actually read the series.

Let's have a fact check: WB was already dying from terminal illness before he even set foot on MF.

What happened after? Let's see:

  • Stabbed through the gut.
  • Taking countless bullets, stabs and canonballs which he didn't even bother to dodge.
  • Having half his face melted off.
  • Having his insides pumped with lava.
  • Getting ganged up on by BB's entire crew.

WB stomped an Admiral and took on BB's entire crew solo with half his face melted and his insides pumped with lava. Meanwhile Ulquiorra can't fight through internal organ damage. Yet, apparently WB died to bullets and loses here. Hmmmm.....

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#85 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@limitlesssigil:

Akainu doesn't even make it to the mid-high tiers in Bleach, this was funny though.

Based on fanboy logic of the 4-5 people who parrot "Lanza gg" in every Ulquiorra thread, sure. Otherwise, entering any Ulquiorra vs OP thread will tell anyone who isn't a fanboy that he isn't even beating the likes of Katakuri, let alone Akainu who beats the crap out of him.

Ulquiorra isn't needed to beat Akainu, Zommari or Barragan can do it with ease.

Tell me again, when has Ulquiorra fought for 10 days straight in a battle that permanently changed the climate of an island? Or physically matched a character that can generate Richter 9 earthquakes on a whim.

I don't see how this is relevant, it would be like me saying "Tell me who in One Piece has the ability to use Kido?"

Difference being, that Lanza has feats far greater than any Quake WB hit Akainu with.

Wait, what feats did Lanza have again, besides a statement about Las Noches (whose size not even the Bleach fanbase itself can agree on) from Ulquiorra himself and breaking a few skyscraper sized pillars with the shockwave of its explosion?

It is agreed how big Las Noches is, the only people who continue to refute it is OP fanboys like yourself.

Let's keep this simple, you claim Lanza has better feats than the attack WB hit Akainu with right? Prove it then.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

The side effect of WB punching Akainu dozens of feet in the air (WB himself is over 20 ft tall) cracked MF in half so its easily over island lvl. And that was done by a dying WB with half his brain missing.

And Akainu has what durability feats that make any of this impressive?

Prove Lanza has above island lvl potency at the very least , and by prove I mean actually show Lanza destroying an island on panel,not vague extrapolation to "country level Las Noches" which literally nobody agrees on.

Why would I need to do that, Marineford isn't even close to island size.

Or even show Lanza having anywhere near the potency needed to permanently change an island's climate.

Changing the climate which achieves nothing in a battle, Akainu would be vaporized if he took a direct Lanza.

Just to add, the meteor would have slowed down drastically upon entering the atmosphere, so it's literally impossible for you to give it a speed.

Dude, minimumspeed of meteorites which impact the earth is Mach 33, this is a fact, so you are just lowballing for its sake at this point.

And this somehow makes Doflamingo triple Mach like you claimed in this thread how?

Because like I said, it's impossible to know a timeframe in the manga unless it's stated, again with the Piccolo moon feat comparison.

So even when the meteorite was shown to reach from outer space to visible range in a panel, in the time it took for Fuji to raise his sword, mind you, we have to somehow believe that it took hours to reach there just so that you can lowball the feat? By this logic any speed feat ever can be refuted, because no author ever writes out stuff like "the attack happened in 1 nano second" lol.

I totally said it took hours, you're just playing dumb now. Your entire calculation for their speed changes drastically if you're even a couple seconds off, so I'm saying that little calculation you made in that thread has no basis.

Again, WB being hit by bullets and cannonballs shows how inconsistent the speed in OP is, if he was really MHS+ he would be able to dodge bullets in his sleep.

Um, did you not read the series? It was a terminally ill, dying WB for crissake who couldn't even use CoO and was not even bothering to dodge insignificant attacks like that and powering through with sheer endurance, and the only instance he was even trying he clobbered an Admiral. You are now just blatantly ignoring context to have Ulquiorra win at any cost.

Um, did you not read the series? Those bullets and cannonballs were what killed WB, you assuming he didn't bother to dodge them (Which is frankly stupid), is pure headcanon.

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#86 Posted by Undre (3828 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: Evern soifon can tank and catch bullets but white beard cant

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And thats from a machine gun. WB gets blized healthy or not

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#87 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

:

@limitlesssigil said:

@kingguinness said:

@limitlesssigil:

You do realise WB only got hit by bullets and cannons because he didn't bother to dodge them right? Also, Akainu would run through a majority of Bleach if we're being honest with ourselves.

You do realize it's those cannons and bullets that ended up killing WB right? You assuming he didn't bother to dodge them is lunacy.

And no, Akainu doesn't run through the majority of Bleach.

You can't be serious right? Now you are actually making me doubt whether you actually read the series.

Let's have a fact check: WB was already dying from terminal illness before he even set foot on MF.

What happened after? Let's see:

  • Stabbed through the gut.
  • Taking countless bullets, stabs and canonballs which he didn't even bother to dodge.
  • Having half his face melted off.
  • Having his insides pumped with lava.
  • Getting ganged up on by BB's entire crew.

WB stomped an Admiral and took on BB's entire crew solo with half his face melted and his insides pumped with lava. Meanwhile Ulquiorra can't fight through internal organ damage. Yet, apparently WB died to bullets and loses here. Hmmmm.....

Here's me saying it was bullets and cannons that killed him

You do realize it's those cannons and bullets that ended up killing WB right? You assuming he didn't bother to dodge them is lunacy.

Here's a scan confirming what I said

No Caption Provided

Here's you acting like what I said isn't true

@shirso said:

You can't be serious right? Now you are actually making me doubt whether you actually read the series.

Let's have a fact check: WB was already dying from terminal illness before he even set foot on MF.

What happened after? Let's see:

  • Stabbed through the gut.
  • Taking countless bullets, stabs and canonballs which he didn't even bother to dodge.
  • Having half his face melted off.
  • Having his insides pumped with lava.
  • Getting ganged up on by BB's entire crew.

WB stomped an Admiral and took on BB's entire crew solo with half his face melted and his insides pumped with lava. Meanwhile Ulquiorra can't fight through internal organ damage. Yet, apparently WB died to bullets and loses here. Hmmmm.....

Where in my paragraph was I lying? I never said he didn't take prior injuries.

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#88 Posted by KingGuinness (1893 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

"You do realize it's those cannons and bullets that ended up killing WB right? You assuming he didn't bother to dodge them is lunacy."

First of all, you're simplifying things. Whitebeard didn't die to just bullets and cannons, it was bullets and cannons ON TOP of the accumulative damage he sustained from fighting Admirals and other high level marines in a war that led to his death. Second of all, this is completely irrelevant to what I just stated. Can you post a scan of WB attempting to dodge bullets and failing?

"And no, Akainu doesn't run through the majority of Bleach."

Right, cause somehow a massively hypersonic island leveller is going to have to trouble with a verse composed largely of hypersonic city busters and sand nukers lol.

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#89 Edited by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingguinness said:

@limitlesssigil:

"You do realize it's those cannons and bullets that ended up killing WB right? You assuming he didn't bother to dodge them is lunacy."

First of all, you're simplifying things. Whitebeard didn't die to just bullets and cannons, it was bullets and cannons ON TOP of the accumulative damage he sustained from fighting Admirals and other high level marines in a war that led to his death. Second of all, this is completely irrelevant to what I just stated. Can you post a scan of WB attempting to dodge bullets and failing?

Was it or was it not the bullets that ultimately killed him? I'm not simplifying anything, you're trying to over complicate it in order to lessen the fact that he did indeed die to bullets.

You're asking me to post a scan of something that doesn't exist? Why? WB never dodged any bullets, whether that's because he could or couldn't is entirely speculative.

"And no, Akainu doesn't run through the majority of Bleach."

Right, cause somehow a massively hypersonic island leveller

He did this when? Changing the atmosphere of half of punk hazard doesn't make him an island leveler lol wtf.

is going to have to trouble with a verse composed largely of hypersonic city busters and sand nukers lol.

That one attack from Ulquiorra blows everything in OP out of the water. And how are they only Hypersonic rofl, NO MASK Ichigo was able to react to Gin's Mach 500 Buto renjin and that somehow makes people he'd fought in the same arc whilst wearing his MASK Hypersonic

No Caption Provided

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#90 Posted by KingGuinness (1893 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

Was it or was it not the bullets that ultimately killed him? I'm not simplifying anything, you're trying to over complicate it in order to lessen the fact that he did indeed die to bullets.

I'm not over complicating things, I'm simply laying out all the facts that you've conveniently decided to leave out.

You're asking me to post a scan of something that doesn't exist? Why? WB never dodged any bullets, whether that's because he could or couldn't is entirely speculative.

If you believe what you just said, then why are you arguing that WB getting tagged by bullets and cannons is an inconsistency for the verses speed? He literally never attempted to dodge at any point in the war, and he was massively nerfed.

He did this when? Changing the atmosphere of half of punk hazard doesn't make him an island leveler lol wtf.

By matching Whitebeard's quake and beating Aokiji, who casually flash froze multiple islands.

That one attack from Ulquiorra blows everything in OP out of the water.

You mean the big light show that has no feats besides blowing up sand? Yeah right. Enel's Kingdom Come vaped an island, that's way better than Lanza by feats. Whitebeard's quakes aren't needed.

And how are they only Hypersonic rofl, NO MASK Ichigo was able to react to Gin's Mach 500 Buto renjin and that somehow makes people he'd fought in the same arc whilst wearing his MASK Hypersonic

Statements aren't feats. If Gin was Mach 500, then why was Candice with her reiatsu lightning even made a Sternritter? She'd get lol blitzed by pre-skip Bankai Ichigo if he was truly Mach 500. Bleach has hardly any quantifiable speed feats, don't attempt to change my mind either since I've read the entire series 3 times.

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#91 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingguinness said:

@limitlesssigil:

Was it or was it not the bullets that ultimately killed him? I'm not simplifying anything, you're trying to over complicate it in order to lessen the fact that he did indeed die to bullets.

I'm not over complicating things, I'm simply laying out all the facts that you've conveniently decided to leave out.

I didn't leave out anything, nothing I said was a lie, you're just picking at details because you dislike the truth.

You're asking me to post a scan of something that doesn't exist? Why? WB never dodged any bullets, whether that's because he could or couldn't is entirely speculative.

If you believe what you just said, then why are you arguing that WB getting tagged by bullets and cannons is an inconsistency for the verses speed? He literally never attempted to dodge at any point in the war, and he was massively nerfed.

So because Ichigo never attempted to dodge light we should just assume he's light-speed? Great logic.

He did this when? Changing the atmosphere of half of punk hazard doesn't make him an island leveler lol wtf.

By matching Whitebeard's quake and beating Aokiji, who casually flash froze multiple islands.

He never matched any of Whitebeards Marineford busting quakes.

That one attack from Ulquiorra blows everything in OP out of the water.

You mean the big light show that has no feats besides blowing up sand? Yeah right. Enel's Kingdom Come vaped an island, that's way better than Lanza by feats. Whitebeard's quakes aren't needed.

It has feats, those being Ulquiorra stating he'd prefer not setting this off at close range, it doesn't take a genius to understand from that that he would be vaporized by his own explosion.

It's also clearly greater than the Cero Oscuras which destroyed a huge chunk of the Los Noches roof. But continue playing dumb, it suits you.

And how are they only Hypersonic rofl, NO MASK Ichigo was able to react to Gin's Mach 500 Buto renjin and that somehow makes people he'd fought in the same arc whilst wearing his MASK Hypersonic

Statements aren't feats. If Gin was Mach 500, then why was Candice with her reiatsu lightning even made a Sternritter? She'd get lol blitzed by pre-skip Bankai Ichigo if he was truly Mach 500. Bleach has hardly any quantifiable speed feats, don't attempt to change my mind either since I've read the entire series 3 times.

So because you don't want to accept it then we should just forget about it lol? No, Gin's Bankai was Mach 500 and Maskless Ichigo dodged it, no amount of your desire for this to be untrue is going to change that.

By the way, you lost all credibility in my opinion the second you said, Akainu is an island leveler, and the majority of Bleach verse is hypersonic, last reply I'm wasting on you.

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#92 Posted by shirso (4493 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

Or physically matched a character that can generate Richter 9 earthquakes on a whim.

I don't see how this is relevant, it would be like me saying "Tell me who in One Piece has the ability to use Kido?"

That's a dumb analogy and you know it. Kido is a technique. Richter 9 earthquakes are a quantifiable measure of energy output that can be applied across verses. Let me make it clearer, "Who in Bleach can generate or fight on par with a guy that has output on the level of Rihter 9 earthquakes casually?'

It is agreed how big Las Noches is, the only people who continue to refute it is OP fanboys like yourself.

I have never seen anyone besides the usual Bleach fanboys argue Las Noches at anything above large city sized. Not only CV, no other site puts Las Noches over large city, and that includes VS Battles, who generally wank the crap out of everything. Heck, there was a poll on this exact topic a few months back on CV and nearly 80% people said its large city sized at best.

General consensus doesn't subscribe to country level or even island level Las Nohes buddy. Not on CV, not anywhere else. It's just the same 4-5 "Lanza gg" squad.

And Akainu has what durability feats that make any of this impressive?

Tanking a punch that cracked an island as a side effect. Fighting for 10 days in a battle that permanently changed an island's climate.

No Caption Provided

All I see there is some sand getting displaced and some skyscraper sized pillars getting shattered. Size is not attack potency buddy.

Why would I need to do that, Marineford isn't even close to island size.

It's small island sized at least.

Changing the climate which achieves nothing in a battle,

Um, what? Do you have any idea how hot his lava has to be to permanently change an island's climate?

Akainu would be vaporized if he took a direct Lanza.

Based on what? What heat feats does Lanza have to suggest it can vaporize a guy who is made of lava and:

  • Melts steel swords just by being near them.
  • Vape a small mountain sized iceberg in seconds.
  • Casually and burrows through bedrock.
  • Burn Ace. Ace stopped snowfall in an island just with his passive heat.
  • Matched and beat a guy who can casually create ice spanning islands that don't melt for 10 days.
  • Can generate enough heat to permanently change an island's climate.

Displacing some sand and a big light show isn't enough dude. Show me concrete feats for how hot Lanza is before making such absurd claims.

And this somehow makes Doflamingo triple Mach like you claimed in this thread how?

Triple digit is if you take 1 panel=1 second, and calculate from there. Mach 33 is the bare minimum.

And weren't you claiming earlier that the meteorite is not even hypersonic or something? I guess debating with actual facts for meteorite speed shut you down hard. Pity Bleach lacks actual feats and instead relies 90% on statements.

Your entire calculation for their speed changes drastically if you're even a couple seconds off, so I'm saying that little calculation you made in that thread has no basis.

Which part of Mach 33 is the bare, objective minimum for the feat, based on actual facts, not vague statements, do you not understand?

Um, did you not read the series? Those bullets and cannonballs were what killed WB, you assuming he didn't bother to dodge them (Which is frankly stupid), is pure headcanon.

Jesus Christ, did you miss the part where he got half his face melted off and had his insides filled with lava or are you in actual denial now? We see a guy keep on fighting with half a face and a body filled with lava, on top of his terminal illness, and you still cling to bullets being what killed WB? This is like putting Superman in a chamber of kryptonite, then having someone shoot him, and claim Superman dies to a bullet.

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#93 Posted by KingGuinness (1893 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

I didn't leave out anything, nothing I said was a lie, you're just picking at details because you dislike the truth.

Posting half truths and leaving out context is lying in my book.

So because Ichigo never attempted to dodge light we should just assume he's light-speed? Great logic.

Don't deflect now. You said WB getting tagged by bullets is an inconsistency for the verses speed, and didn't prove why. Why is WB getting tagged by bullets an inconsistency when he never attempted to dodge them?

He never matched any of Whitebeards Marineford busting quakes.

So? Whitebeard's casual quakes against fodder created tsunamis and shook islands across the Grand Line. That irrefutably generates country level energy at it's epicenter, so calling Akainu an island leveler is actually a lowball but i went with it so as to not further crush any belief that anyone in Bleach touches WB in DC.

It has feats, those being Ulquiorra stating he'd prefer not setting this off at close range, it doesn't take a genius to understand from that that he would be vaporized by his own explosion.

So basically, it has no feats and just has a statement. Typical. Bleach tends to have a lot of those. Statements with no feats backing them up i mean.

It's also clearly greater than the Cero Oscuras which destroyed a huge chunk of the Los Noches roof. But continue playing dumb, it suits you.

It shaved off a quarter of Las Noches's roof. Big whoop. Explain to me why that's impressive and how it comes close to Enel vaping an island.

So because you don't want to accept it then we should just forget about it lol? No, Gin's Bankai was Mach 500 and Maskless Ichigo dodged it, no amount of your desire for this to be untrue is going to change that.

Okay. Whitebeard is planetary by statements, and Akainu tanked attacks from him. Multi-planetary durability for Akainu is now irrefutable, and nothing you say will ever change that.

PS: I'm obviously not serious about the planetary WB thing, but i hope it shows you and anyone else reading how stupid it is to take statements at face value with no corroborating evidence to back them up.

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#94 Edited by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@limitlesssigil:

Or physically matched a character that can generate Richter 9 earthquakes on a whim.

I don't see how this is relevant, it would be like me saying "Tell me who in One Piece has the ability to use Kido?"

That's a dumb analogy and you know it. Kido is a technique. Richter 9 earthquakes are a quantifiable measure of energy output that can be applied across verses. Let me make it clearer, "Who in Bleach can generate or fight on par with a guy that has output on the level of Rihter 9 earthquakes casually?'

Whitebeard is the only one capable of such a feat in OP due to his technique, so no it's not a dumb analogy you're just way too ignorant to understand it.

It is agreed how big Las Noches is, the only people who continue to refute it is OP fanboys like yourself.

I have never seen anyone besides the usual Bleach fanboys argue Las Noches at anything above large city sized. Not only CV, no other site puts Las Noches over large city, and that includes VS Battles, who generally wank the crap out of everything. Heck, there was a poll on this exact topic a few months back on CV and nearly 80% people said its large city sized at best.

You realize that thing it's dwarfing is Los Noches?

General consensus doesn't subscribe to country level or even island level Las Nohes buddy. Not on CV, not anywhere else. It's just the same 4-5 "Lanza gg" squad.

And Akainu has what durability feats that make any of this impressive?

Tanking a punch that cracked an island as a side effect. Fighting for 10 days in a battle that permanently changed an island's climate.

Marineford isn't an island, you call Los Noches a city but Marineford an island? This is plain retardation. By that logic, any piece of land surrounded by water is by definition an island and there's no classification by size.

No Caption Provided

Los Noches itself literally dwarfs Marineford.

No Caption Provided

All I see there is some sand getting displaced and some skyscraper sized pillars getting shattered. Size is not attack potency buddy.

1. Ulquiorra said he would prefer not detonating one at close range, implying it's potent enough to cause him significant harm

2. It's massively superior to the Cero Oscuras which demolished a large chunk of Los Noche's roof.

Why would I need to do that, Marineford isn't even close to island size.

It's small island sized at least.

No it really isn't you're clearly unfamiliar with how big islands actually are.

Calling Marineford a city is a gift.

Changing the climate which achieves nothing in a battle,

Um, what? Do you have any idea how hot his lava has to be to permanently change an island's climate?

Do you have any idea what fiction is? Also, enlighten me on how hot lava would have to be to change an islands climate.

Akainu would be vaporized if he took a direct Lanza.

Based on what? What heat feats does Lanza have to suggest it can vaporize a guy who is made of lava and:

  • Melts steel swords just by being near them.
  • Vape a small mountain sized iceberg in seconds.
  • Casually and burrows through bedrock.
  • Burn Ace. Ace stopped snowfall in an island just with his passive heat.
  • Matched and beat a guy who can casually create ice spanning islands that don't melt for 10 days.
  • Can generate enough heat to permanently change an island's climate.

Based on him not receiving any damage even remotely close to Lanza del relampago.

That iceberg wasn't mountain sized, wtf is wrong with you and size comparisons, the chunk of ice Jozu threw at them was closer to a hill.

Displacing some sand and a big light show isn't enough dude. Show me concrete feats for how hot Lanza is before making such absurd claims.

Read above

And this somehow makes Doflamingo triple Mach like you claimed in this thread how?

Triple digit is if you take 1 panel=1 second, and calculate from there. Mach 33 is the bare minimum.

And weren't you claiming earlier that the meteorite is not even hypersonic or something? I guess debating with actual facts for meteorite speed shut you down hard. Pity Bleach lacks actual feats and instead relies 90% on statements.

Quote me saying that meteorite wasn't even hypersonic. It's funny you're talking about relying on statements, because that's literally the only way you can use WB in this thread, ignorance. I mean just earlier in this thread you were trying to claim WB is LS through scaling from Kizaru, gtfo lmao.

Your entire calculation for their speed changes drastically if you're even a couple seconds off, so I'm saying that little calculation you made in that thread has no basis.

Which part of Mach 33 is the bare, objective minimum for the feat, based on actual facts, not vague statements, do you not understand?

What part of "Your entire calculation for their speed changes drastically if you're even a couple seconds off" do you not understand?

Um, did you not read the series? Those bullets and cannonballs were what killed WB, you assuming he didn't bother to dodge them (Which is frankly stupid), is pure headcanon.

Jesus Christ, did you miss the part where he got half his face melted off and had his insides filled with lava or are you in actual denial now? We see a guy keep on fighting with half a face and a body filled with lava, on top of his terminal illness, and you still cling to bullets being what killed WB? This is like putting Superman in a chamber of kryptonite, then having someone shoot him, and claim Superman dies to a bullet.

You're literally denying a direct scan here, he WAS killed by bullets, the fact you're even trying to deny this is astounding

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#95 Posted by Undre (3828 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil: Buto was mach 500 thats the one that ichigo dodged. Buto renji is mach 1000 gin said it's double the speed. So masked ichigo mach 1000.

I agree MF is now were near island. Those. Small Building size ships shouldn't even be visible in comparison i even have a scan of WB ship being as high as the ice berg

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#96 Posted by Saxz (176 posts) - - Show Bio

Marineford is island sized, while Las noches is city sized??? Wow! Just Wow

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#97 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@saxz said:

Marineford is island sized, while Las noches is city sized??? Wow! Just Wow

Ikr, it's complete idiocy.

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#98 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

It's like people don't realize, scenes like this

No Caption Provided

Are from inside of Los Noches

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#99 Edited by ovy7 (3104 posts) - - Show Bio

@saxz: it's not even the only or first one of those lol. You got OP debaters saying that Moria spliting Thriller Bark is island level, while Lanza is just mountain lvl. . . even tho Lanza would destroy Thriller Bark tens of times over.

I don't even...

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#100 Edited by Saxz (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

It's funny,it really is, someone liKe Yammy in his last ressurecion is at least skyscrapper sized, and he doesn't even come close to the roof of Las noches,so how are the pillars which are taller than Las noches canopy,somehow building sized??I wonder