Whis vs God Cloth Pegasus Seiya

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@batuxx28: Don't try to argue with his legit mountain level Beerus claim. You will lose lmao.

Seiya still takes the victory over Whis. Until we get speed feats on his level or atomization resistance feats thats all that can be said.

@batuxx28: I don't know if you've been keeping up but I said mountain level feats in the anime several comments ago. Given that the manga is a seperate canon unless we're using composite versions.

If you could prove some consistency in your claims I mean it would be quite simple.

at least planet level physically

in the anime to WHis it took him to travel to the universe 10 in less than 2 hours but I'm wrong, in the manga they arrived as soon as they finished talking, that is in seconds, that speed leaves in diapers any speed exposed by Seiya, since in the universe there are less 200 billion galaxies. 

@batuxx28 said:

@thordinson said:

Seiya still takes the victory over Whis. Until we get speed feats on his level or atomization resistance feats thats all that can be said.

in the anime to WHis it took him to travel to the universe 10 in less than 2 hours but I'm wrong, in the manga they arrived as soon as they finished talking, that is in seconds, that speed leaves in diapers any speed exposed by Seiya, since in the universe there are less 200 billion galaxies. 

Given the size of the general DB Verse that's not an impressive feat. And you realize that SS is septillion's of times FTL right?

in the anime to WHis it took him to travel to the universe 10 in less than 2 hours but I'm wrong, in the manga they arrived as soon as they finished talking, that is in seconds, that speed leaves in diapers any speed exposed by Seiya, since in the universe there are less 200 billion galaxies. 

why is that

@kaiocool: Because its small as dirt and has only 28 inhabited planets in it.

@thordinson:

Because its small as dirt

what do you mean

and has only 28 inhabited planets in it.

so? how does size of an astral body depend on how many lifeforms are in it?

@zoldycklogic:

Hit has an attack that ignores durability and can phase through an object, causing internal damage. Goku and Jiren managed to block this attack plenty of times using Ki shields.

DB Ki in its own is a very useful weapon in the DB verse it can even be considered as Hax.

• Enough Ki would allow you to:

1. Resist heat.
2. Resist absolute zero temperature ( Vegeta in base form )
3. Resist phasing attacks
4. Resist molecular manipulation ( Buu absorbing Vegito )
5. exert more force ( increase physical striking force )
6. absorb more force ( increase durability )
7. many more...

His invisible Ki blasts that operate sort of like shockwaves in the sense that they continue to pass through the body, damaging the inner tissue, right? Those are good attacks, and I do believe Ki shields can offer some resistance to certain techniques that ignore standard durability. In Saint Seiya, Knights train specifically for the purpose of targeting the atoms inside of their target, breaking it apart from within by flaring their Cosmo:

https://imgur.com/a/ZiCPc

In the second scan, we see a younger Seiya training to become a Knight--he has some issue breaking apart a rock with brute force alone, which is the reason his teacher Marin demonstrated the destructive technique passed down to the Knights throughout the ages. Essentially, she uses her Cosmo alone to shatter the rock's atoms--breaking it apart from within.

While Ki shields have shown some resistance to many types of unique abilities in the past, it has never displayed the power to protect the user on an atomic scale. Now, I do believe Whis could use an external Ki shield that we see characters utilize in combat from time to time to prevent some of Seiya's attacks from reaching him altogether, but whether or not Whis would know to constantly shield himself with a barrier, especially since he doesn't have knowledge on Seiya's abilities and he's bloodlusted here, is another story. Besides, I believe Seiya could break through a Ki barrier with techniques like Pegasus Comet Fist or a Barrage of Meteor Fists (even in the first part of the manga once Seiya achieved light speed, he could throw close to 100 million a second). His Comet Fist alone was able to completely overpower Gemini Saga's Galaxian Explosion: A technique that is said to have the force required to destroy galaxies (at full power numerous galaxies):

https://imgur.com/a/wAXfi

The reason why this is an impressive feat for Seiya is not only due to the fact that it happened during the first part of the manga, back when he was still a rookie Bronze who had just awakened his 7th Sense, but Seiya himself had also been through Hell just to get to Saga's chamber. He wore himself out fighting against numerous Gold Knights and had 6 of his senses taken away from him by Saga.

Now Whis is a being that who can travel between universes. And his body can react to anything even if Whis himself didn't manage to see this attack coming. And by his statement, Megatte No Goku'i allows his attacks to be as effective as they can be.

Why is this important?

A normal guy would only be able to go as fast as 20-25 km/hrs. But would easily be able to drive a car going 10 times this speed. So his senses are capable of working at this speed.

When Whis travels Billions of times faster than the speed of light, It's only natural to say that he can heighten his senses to work at this speed. Yet his body is not limited to such speed.

I am of the opinion that navigating through space requires some perceptive abilities, especially if you're traversing galactic distances at FTL+ speeds. I suppose the same thing would apply to Seiya, however, since we've seen him cross 10 billion galaxies (more in the original Japanese translation) within mere minutes (timeframe backed up by Hades' statement regarding the eclipse) as a Bronze Knight. We've also seen him react to Thanatos' energy attacks that cross this distance and more in an even shorter timeframe. It should also be noted that God Seiya scales to Gold Knights like Shiryu, a character whose attack speed exceeded the initial expansion of the universe and has reactions fast enough to block attacks that travel between different universes in seconds.

And don't forget that Whis hasn't yet shown any sign of his true powers. We can only scale him to be much stronger than GoDs.

That's part of the issue with using him in battles, imo. We have no idea what he's truly capable of, but based on what we've seen and who he scales to, I don't think there's enough to put him against a bloodlusted God Cloth Seiya as of now.

There are also calculations putting slower characters than Seiya at septillions of times the speed of light, so even if Whis is quintillions, that's not nearly enough.

@thedarkpaladin: ki can destroy someone on atomic level, trunks did it to frieza:

1.

2. Because a galaxy has billions of planets in it and ours is projected to have billions of Earth like planets with life on them. If it has 28 planets with life on it....do the math.

@kaiocool:

at least planet level physically

A guy with no reading comprehension eh? I adore those kinds of people.

That isn't the point I'm trying to make anyway. I'm saying resisting existence erasure doesn't constitute valid proof that one can resist atomic level destruction and vice versa. They're two very different abilities.

but I'm wrong in the anime took a couple of hours, in the manga was much less time than Whis traveled to the universe 10,

When was there a timeframe given for how long it took Whis to travel to Universe 10? I'm asking because I legitimately don't recall anything hinting that it took hours.

if you knew in the universe there are at least 200 billion galaxies,

There are 100 billion galaxies estimated in the observable universe as of now. The number might increase with time, but for now, it's 100 billion.

@thordinson:

1. those are depictions, not the actual universe itself. can you explain why you are posting those?

2. there is not a single planet in our universe other than earth with confirmed existence of life.

having 28 planets with life =/= having 28 planets in total.

what are you talking about here

That scan merely says Freeza was reduced to atoms. It's a little different than targeting the opponents atoms from within and crushing them.

1. One is a visual representation of the DBZ "universe" in what resembles a galaxy. The 2nd isn't to scale but it's a canon diagram sk displaying its insignificant size.

2. So in a galaxy with billions of planets among billions of other galaxies there's no life?

@thedarkpaladin: even if doesn't specifically target the atoms, it is still capable of destroying someone at atomic level and they are able to resist it.

@mrx1122:

This ,although this may be surprising but there are actual scientist that doubt the existence of aliens,I mean it's not surprising since after thousands of planets that have been examined not a single one has any aliens ,they should show at least low lv life forms but nil...shame

1. There's different scientists for different fields of science.

2. You are none of them and failed to disprove NASAs scientififc theories being fake. I would put more stock in what they say then what you say : )

Not really. Taking that statement literally, it's able to completely destroy someone down to their very atoms, but that doesn't prove resistance to atomic destruction at all.

when did I talk to you.you are so annoying go away no one likes you.you always whine in every dbz thread.

I swear everytime you talk I feel like ripping your head off

1. A few days ago where you swore at me, admitted you were an alt, said NASAS theories are fake and also called me a mental illness along with it.

2. That's a threat which is against the rules.

@thordinson:

1. One is a visual representation of the DBZ "universe" in what resembles a galaxy.

just because it resembles a galaxy from the outside doesn't mean it is galaxy sized. Just because constellation scorpio looks like scorpion from earth doesn't mean it's few inches in size.

Jaco, whose job involves travelling the universe says there are countless galaxies in the universe

we actually see many galaxies when super shenron is called

why do you take symbolic, non-scaled depictions over what is actually shown?

The 2nd isn't to scale but it's a canon diagram sk displaying its insignificant size.

how can something not to be scaled and depict size? You're contradicting yourself.

2. So in a galaxy with billions of planets among billions of other galaxies there's no life?

as far as scientists at NASA and other space agencies have said, there isn't. do you disagree?

@batuxx28 said:

@thordinson said:

@batuxx28 said:

@thordinson said:

Seiya still takes the victory over Whis. Until we get speed feats on his level or atomization resistance feats thats all that can be said.

in the anime to WHis it took him to travel to the universe 10 in less than 2 hours but I'm wrong, in the manga they arrived as soon as they finished talking, that is in seconds, that speed leaves in diapers any speed exposed by Seiya, since in the universe there are less 200 billion galaxies. 

Given the size of the general DB Verse that's not an impressive feat.

Clusters.

@thedarkpaladin: how does resisting being reduced to your very atoms is not resistance to atomic destruction?

@thordinson: don't talk to me.you are so annoying.actually am pretty sure trolling is agaisnt the rule that's all you do in every dbz thread.you are not actually legit debating ,in fact you are just here to troll us.

Because his atoms were never destroyed? Trunks' Ki blasts disintegrated Freeza body and all that remained were atoms.

Saints bypass external durability with their Cosmo to destroy the atoms within their target, something DB characters have never resisted on panel.

The two don't equate in the slightest.

@thordinson said:

@batuxx28 said:

@thordinson said:

@batuxx28 said:

@thordinson said:

Seiya still takes the victory over Whis. Until we get speed feats on his level or atomization resistance feats thats all that can be said.

in the anime to WHis it took him to travel to the universe 10 in less than 2 hours but I'm wrong, in the manga they arrived as soon as they finished talking, that is in seconds, that speed leaves in diapers any speed exposed by Seiya, since in the universe there are less 200 billion galaxies. 

Given the size of the general DB Verse that's not an impressive feat.

Clusters.

because you do not count how many galaxies there are in that photo, you will realize that it is only visibile, the universe 7 represents our Universe, you can not lower the size just because you want to discredit DB,

@batuxx28:

because you do not count how many galaxies there are in that photo, you will realize that it is only visibile, the universe 7 represents our Universe, you can not lower the size just because you want to discredit DB,

1. I see small clusters surrounding the Dragon aside from the 2 photos and diagrams showing its size. I don't think the db verse is one galaxy, it may be somewhere from a few dozen to a couple. But it's nowhere near close to an actual one.

2. I don't have to discredit DB. It does that on it's own.

@batuxx28 said:

@thordinson said:

@batuxx28 said:

@thordinson said:

@batuxx28 said:

@thordinson said:

Seiya still takes the victory over Whis. Until we get speed feats on his level or atomization resistance feats thats all that can be said.

in the anime to WHis it took him to travel to the universe 10 in less than 2 hours but I'm wrong, in the manga they arrived as soon as they finished talking, that is in seconds, that speed leaves in diapers any speed exposed by Seiya, since in the universe there are less 200 billion galaxies. 

Given the size of the general DB Verse that's not an impressive feat.

Clusters.

because you do not count how many galaxies there are in that photo, you will realize that it is only visibile, the universe 7 represents our Universe, you can not lower the size just because you want to discredit DB,

Thordinson is a troll don't take him seriously,in another thread he says beerus is only mountain lv.

@thedarkpaladin:

So saints separate even the atoms of the targets into smaller bits?

If I were trolling I wouldn't be bringing forth actual arguments for my case against who I'm talking to. You've broken the rules already many times in a previous thread and now again.

@mrx1122: Calm down.

Why is this troll still here man and SS isn't septillion times FTL it's wanking it. That is feat is unquantifiable and depends on the theories. Their combat speed is barely on what Whis can do. Destructive capacity and strength aren't even near Galaxy level via actual feats and he is going up against someone who one shots Universe Buster effortlessly. This is a mismatch. SS vs Beerus is debatable. Also how atomization is better than existence erasure again? Splitting atom is common in fiction and isn't even impressive.

@mainjp: don't tell me to calm down when there is a troll in everythread trying to ruin my fun .instead tell the troll to stop replying to me

@thedeathstar: I know right man,he is so annoying.i just wish we could do something to stop this nonsense trolling

They utilize their Cosmo in battle to attack their target's inner atoms, causing them to break or split apart:

https://imgur.com/a/ZiCPc

It's basically destruction from the inside, whereas the conventional Ki blast in DB tends to disintegrate the opponent from the outside on larger scale and reduce them to smaller units such as cells or molecules.

@thordinson: you are not bringing any argument.in one of your comment you said beerus is only mountain lv through psysical atrack.and in another thread you claimed Goku is only planet lv(am pretty sure it was you who said that).now you claim dbz has only One galaxy.you expect me to believe you are not trolling.yeah right

The theories they do rely on are established scientific theories. Technically, you can argue Goku's black hole feat is entirely dependent on theories as well and can't be quantified using actual proof. Whis has no established combat feats on the level of Saint Seiya characters (they're all travel speed feats) and going strictly by on panel showings, the most he can scale to is multi-planet busting Beerus, which is nowhere close to enough here.

They have already shown they can fight while propelling at those speeds.

@kaiocool said:

@thordinson:

1. One is a visual representation of the DBZ "universe" in what resembles a galaxy.

just because it resembles a galaxy from the outside doesn't mean it is galaxy sized. Just because constellation scorpio looks like scorpion from earth doesn't mean it's few inches in size.

Jaco, whose job involves travelling the universe says there are countless galaxies in the universe

we actually see many galaxies when super shenron is called

why do you take symbolic, non-scaled depictions over what is actually shown?

The 2nd isn't to scale but it's a canon diagram sk displaying its insignificant size.

how can something not to be scaled and depict size? You're contradicting yourself.

2. So in a galaxy with billions of planets among billions of other galaxies there's no life?

as far as scientists at NASA and other space agencies have said, there isn't. do you disagree?

1. Jaco has proven himself unreliable about a multitude of things in DB. I don't think the verse is one singular galaxy but it just honestly Isn't comparable to the size of others.

2. Because it's a diagram showing how big the universe would be surrounding OW....?

3. Another NASA expert eh?

https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_2233.html

Dude, why is reading hard for you?

• I said posssibly about 3x now Beerus has no consistent feats over mountain level in the DBS anime. You're twisting my words intentionally or outright ignoring them.
• Goku is only planet level. And being generous multi planetary with energy.
• Never said it has one galaxy.

Whis hasn't shown the capability to fight while traversing the vacuum of space to my knowledge and even still, we have Seiya reacting to attacks from Thanatos that cross Super Dimensional Space within seconds and blitzing him afterwards. There's another similar feat in Episode G: Assasin where Anti-Pope Aiolos attacks Shura from a different universe.

@thordinson:

1. Jaco has proven himself unreliable about a multitude of things in DB.

how does you thinking he is unreliable mean he is wrong

I don't think the verse is one singular galaxy but it just honestly Isn't comparable to the size of others.

why not? it has countless galaxies, just like any other universe.

2. Because it's a diagram showing how big the universe would be surrounding OW....?

yes, but you know it isn't drawn to scale, it doesn't give any information about the actual size of the universe so it's pointless to post it in a discussion about size

3. Another NASA expert eh?

https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_2233.html

The link says nothing about there being more than one planet with life in our universe.