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Edited 8 days, 22 hours ago

Poll: Which striking feat is better? Thor (MCU)or Zod (DCEU) (107 votes)

Thor 62%
Zod 38%
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#51 Posted by Azooz_king (670 posts) - - Show Bio

lol it the People trying to Lowball the Feat by saying "oh its Lightning" anyway Thor by Light year

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#52 Posted by The_Magister (3196 posts) - - Show Bio

lol it the People trying to Lowball the Feat by saying "oh its Lightning" anyway Thor by Light year

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#53 Posted by RudeBomberBoy01 (3916 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324:

It's mind baffling. 'The shockwave is just thunder' LMFAO! Are you flipping shitting me?!

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#54 Posted by password65 (188 posts) - - Show Bio
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#55 Posted by nfactor1995 (12124 posts) - - Show Bio

Zod’s tbh

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#56 Posted by Batman242 (7967 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242 said:
@paragonnate said:
@batman242 said:

@paragonnate: You'd have done much better if you or the few others had answered the question I asked ages ago;

"Can you show me at least once where Thor produced a shockwave without lightning involved?"

To answer your question;

I don't know. Writer induced stupidity? The fact that shockwaves from lightning isn't always visible like I said before? If anything, this could even probably discredit Thor's lightning since the shockwave is a product of the pressure and high temperatures lightning has. Are we saying that Thor's own lightning is less than the natural lightning that we know?

I'll counter your question with a question.

"Can you show me once where Thor's lightning produced a shockwave on its own?"

Thor's lightning doesn't cause shockwaves, that video is all the proof I need. Full stop. End of discussion, at this point you are reaching to downplay Thor's feat.

Thor's lightning is not natural lightning. if it was everything would have been on fire in that scene, due to lightning's extreme temperatures and how long the bolt existed. But everything wasn't on fire. It looks like lightning, it has a great deal of power like lightning, it sounds like lightning, but other than those superficial similarities it doesn't behave like natural lightning in any of the scene we see it used. Therefor, it isn't what's causing the shockwave, it's simply increasing the damage.

Lightning is considered plasma, so even if you are to argue that Thor's lightning is different from natural lightning, you can't say that the temperature is different.

Plasma - "is a state of matter in which an ionised gaseous substance becomes highly electrically conductive to the point that long-range electric and magnetic fields dominate the behavior of the matter."

It's clearly electrically conductive since it raised the Arc Reactor in Tony's chest to 475% capacity.

"Sound is generated along the length of the lightning channel as the atmosphere is heated by the electrical discharge to the order of 20,000°C (3 times the temperature of the surface of the sun). This compresses the surrounding clear air producing a shock wave, which then decays to an acoustic wave as it propagates away from the lightning channel."

Let's not forget that Thor used the lightning to burn through the Leviathan.

Thor's lightning has just about all characteristics of regular lightning, but still does things contrary to physics. This is what we called writer induced stupidity, my friend. Something that we can find more common that we can even bother to look for in fiction.

Thor's lightning doesn't make shockwaves. Full stop, end of discussion. I await for proof of it doing so. Until proof of your claim is provided the shockwave was caused by Thor's strike alone, not by the lightning.

I could literally say Thor's strikes producing shockwaves is solely because of the lightning behind it and show every instant a shockwave was produced and show the lightning being involved and then ask why shouldn't I think lightning's properties has something to do with it. That is my burden of proof and I can/have presented it.

Your refutations don't align for reasons I've already stated.

If your claim is that Thor producing shockwaves is of his own power, then that burden of proof is on you. So, you're the one that needs to prove it.

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#57 Posted by Batman242 (7967 posts) - - Show Bio

I wanna ask, if we remove the shockwave and lightning from all of Thor's strikes that has had one, what would be the difference in the effect on the intended target and not the surrounding area?

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#58 Posted by DammeFavour (5352 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242: that ice bridge in jotunheim won't crumble, sokovia remains intact, no shock wave in the arena

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#59 Posted by The_Fub (1232 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor, shockwave was present and the damage from the attack being blocked (seemingly partly absorbed) was much greater. Although to be fair Superman took most if the impact force from Zods.

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#60 Posted by Batman242 (7967 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324 said:

@batman242: What question

"Can you show at least one instance of Thor producing a shockwave without lightning involved?"

"How and why does lightning amp the potential force of a strike when it's actual properties naturally produce shockwaves and possibly even explosions".

The only answers I recall getting pertained to the lightning not being natural, therefore different, to which I drew the conclusion that it must be much less hot than natural lightning and has less pressure.

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#61 Posted by The_Fub (1232 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242: Really? I gave you more then one example of why it's not lightning that makes the shockwaves, you even went so far as to say you "partly agree" sure lightning might help in some minimal form but it's not the cause altogether, the strike was still more impressive regardless. So again, Thor hits harder when his hammer is imbued with lightning, this has always been the case, that's why there's shockwaves when he strikes with his lightning covered hammer. like I said be he shrouds it for a reason and it's not for the special affects.

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#62 Posted by DrPepperMan (1045 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor

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#63 Posted by Batman242 (7967 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_fub said:

@batman242: Really? I gave you more then one example of why it's not lightning that makes the shockwaves, you even went so far as to say you "partly agree" sure lightning might help in some minimal form but it's not the cause altogether, the strike was still more impressive regardless. So again, Thor hits harder when his hammer is imbued with lightning, this has always been the case, that's why there's shockwaves when he strikes with his lightning covered hammer. like I said be he shrouds it for a reason and it's not for the special affects.

Why do you think Thor shrouds his hammer in lightning sometimes and not others? It amplifys it's power, there are feats and circumstances that back this up.

This is the exact statement I said I agree to to some degree. When I said that I agree I meant that that's the obvious part, but it gets hazy as to how/why it amplifies power. Why can't we think that it's just explosive force from the sudden pressure caused by collision and propagated even more so due to the force of the strike itself?

How I look at it, I think Thor's fist or Mjolnir once lightning charged could just be a bomb ready to explode and produces a shockwave because of it.

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#64 Posted by Batman242 (7967 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242: that ice bridge in jotunheim won't crumble, sokovia remains intact, no shock wave in the arena

Here, here.

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#65 Posted by ParagonNate (3897 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242: I could literally say Thor's strikes producing shockwaves is solely because of the lightning behind it and show every instant a shockwave was produced and show the lightning being involved and then ask why shouldn't I think lightning's properties has something to do with it. That is my burden of proof and I can/have presented it.

You could say that sure, but you'd be wrong. Seeing as Thor's lightning dosn't produce shockwaves. It certainly doesn't produce them on the scale of the Arena strike of the Malekith strike. See the Avengers lightning bolt as evidence.

Your refutations don't align for reasons I've already stated.

Except they do.

If your claim is that Thor producing shockwaves is of his own power, then that burden of proof is on you. So, you're the one that needs to prove it.

I already did. Thor's lightning doesn't produce shockwaves. See the Avengers lightning bolt for evidence, or hell see the one he hit Hela with. No shockwave in either of his two largest lightning bolts, ones far more massive and powerful than the ones he generates in his melee strikes. We see his lightning not producing shockwaves. Therefor his lightning doesn't produce shockwaves. Full stop. End of discussion.

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#66 Posted by The_Fub (1232 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242: If that's what you think it does, then ok, think that, maybe that's what the writers intend. One things for sure though, he hits harder when his lightning is shrouded in lightning, fact. Trying to take away from it simply because of the lightning will not get you anywhere here. I'm not saying your totally wrong, because you have a point, it's just more or less a lost cause running around debating people about it.

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#67 Edited by Batman242 (7967 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_fub said:

@batman242: If that's what you think it does, then ok, think that, maybe that's what the writers intend. One things for sure though, he hits harder when his lightning is shrouded in lightning, fact. I'm not saying your totally wrong, because you have a point,

Who knows? Maybe.

Trying to take away from it simply because of the lightning will not get you anywhere here.

This is the problem I have. I'm being repeatedly accused of this when I'm giving points that show as inconsistencies in the film and even some consistencies.

it's just more or less a lost cause running around debating people about it.

I agree, but I'd at least appreciate not being called bias or being told that I'm actively trying to downplay a feat.

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#68 Posted by Batman242 (7967 posts) - - Show Bio

@paragonnate: Full stop. End of discussion.

You've said this multiple times in more than one thread, yet we're still here discussing.......

Why can't we think that it's just explosive force from the sudden pressure caused by collision and propagated even more so due to the force of the strike itself?

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#69 Posted by americanspeeddemon (5339 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242: Thor's Lightning doesn't produce shockwaves (at least no visible ones) naturally and natural lightning doesn't produce pressure waves very similar to Thor's.

Plus the writers are obviously trying to show the power of the strike which is why not all of Thor's lightning amped attacks produce shockwaves. He doesn't hit the berserkers as hard as he hit the Hulk and therefore he doesn't produce shockwaves.

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#70 Edited by The_Fub (1232 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242: As someone who is actively called biased just for having an opposing views, I understand. To be fair, when first hearing it, it sounds like you're just trying to take away from the feats, however there is science and a measure of consistent showings that support it. Although I don't think in most cases it's enough to say that his striking is lower then another because of it, again, just by what's presented.

Sorry for my initial attack, you had a point, it just seemed like a desperate reach at face value.

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#71 Posted by Batman242 (7967 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242: Thor's Lightning doesn't produce shockwaves (at least no visible ones) naturally and natural lightning doesn't produce pressure waves very similar to Thor's.

Plus the writers are obviously trying to show the power of the strike which is why not all of Thor's lightning amped attacks produce shockwaves. He doesn't hit the berserkers as hard as he hit the Hulk and therefore he doesn't produce shockwaves.

What do you mean not hit as hard? How does lightning amplify the physical force of a strike?

Force is mass x acceleration. Lightning doesn't add to any of those factors.

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#72 Posted by ThunderPrince (2943 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor's hit. Destroying tens of meters of ground wrecks punching a 200 lb body that distance.

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#73 Posted by americanspeeddemon (5339 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242: How does lightning generate suits of armor? Thor's lightning is a visual representation of increased power in his strikes also force doesn't work that easily in fiction if it did all of Hulk's punches would be like supersonic.

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#74 Posted by APEX_pretador (14329 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242: whether or not lightning amps his strike is irrelevant. It is a part of his strike.

It is within his power.

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#75 Posted by Batman242 (7967 posts) - - Show Bio

@americanspeeddemon: How does lightning generate suits of armor?

I'm not sure I quite understand the question. Are you asking how does it generate power to a suit of armor? As in the instance where it powered Tony's suit? If so, it gave a boost in power capacity. Lightning after all is electricity. If this wasn't what you meant, then I'm lost.

force doesn't work that easily in fiction if it did all of Hulk's punches would be like supersonic.

Hulk's body mas changes and he'd at least be able to move his arms faster. Lightning does none of this to factor into adding sheer force to a strike. This is why I'm trying to understand it.

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#76 Posted by Batman242 (7967 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242: whether or not lightning amps his strike is irrelevant. It is a part of his strike.

It is within his power.

Yes, I never said that it doesn't amp the strike. I'm asking "how does it."

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#77 Posted by Batman242 (7967 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_fub said:

@batman242: As someone who is actively called biased just for having an opposing views, I understand. To be fair, when first hearing it, it sounds like you're just trying to take away from the feats, however there is science and a measure of consistent showings that support it. Although I don't think in most cases it's enough to say that his striking is lower then another because of it, again, just by what's presented.

Sorry for my initial attack, you had a point, it just seemed like a desperate reach at face value.

It's all good. I think calling someone bias on a forum where we can all get familiar with each other can be counter-productive. Eventually other people will cling to the same belief.

It's real funny, because I never outright said that Zod's strike was better, just trying to truly understand the power behind Thor's.

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#78 Posted by APEX_pretador (14329 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador said:

@batman242: whether or not lightning amps his strike is irrelevant. It is a part of his strike.

It is within his power.

Yes, I never said that it doesn't amp the strike. I'm asking "how does it."

The same way Thanos or Silver Surfer charge their punches with cosmic energy, or Goku and Freeza charge their punches with ki energy.

Now I really want Thanos to punch with cosmic energy

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#79 Posted by Batman242 (7967 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: Doesn't really answer the question at hand. Are any of those forms of energy adding sheer force to a strike?

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#80 Edited by agent1414 (15 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor stomps.

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#81 Posted by foxerdes (7326 posts) - - Show Bio

Lightning amp strikes.

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#82 Posted by APEX_pretador (14329 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: Doesn't really answer the question at hand. Are any of those forms of energy adding sheer force to a strike?

Most likely yes, because otherwise they won't do that

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#83 Posted by Aatroxxx (1444 posts) - - Show Bio

Zod's uppercuts > MCU/DCEU

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#84 Posted by americanspeeddemon (5339 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242: Thor uses his lightning to create his armor. Though tbf the shockwave of lightning is pretty minimal i mean one of the theories for the unique scarring of individuals struck by lightning is that the pressure wave bursted capillaries. Thor's shockwaves are way way way like hundreds of times more powerful.

Also Hulks hand probably weighs what like 20-25 pounds at most to generate enough force to stop a 6,000 ton object he'd need to swing his arm at absurd speed.

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#85 Posted by Batman242 (7967 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242 said:

@apex_pretador: Doesn't really answer the question at hand. Are any of those forms of energy adding sheer force to a strike?

Most likely yes, because otherwise they won't do that

Now to original question; how?

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#86 Posted by APEX_pretador (14329 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador said:
@batman242 said:

@apex_pretador: Doesn't really answer the question at hand. Are any of those forms of energy adding sheer force to a strike?

Most likely yes, because otherwise they won't do that

Now to original question; how?

You can't get an answer to everything. It has just been like that since forever in almost all forms of fiction - energy amps strikes.

If I had to explain - Let's say 10 J = Energy of the unamped strike, and 10 J = Energy which is used to ampstrike, then total energy behind the strike = 20 J

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#87 Posted by Rusti (328 posts) - - Show Bio

Consdering that Thor didn't do that feat all by himself. I'd say Zod.

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#88 Posted by CartoonLife (205 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor

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#89 Edited by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (4603 posts) - - Show Bio

The reason Zod's punch didn't create a shock-wave is because Superman's body took all the damn force, and it sent him flying away "the distance of a Skyscraper" through reinforced concrete. It would've created a larger shock-wave had Superman blocked it with an equal amount of force (this is what happened when Superman punched Zod, later). However, Thor strike on the other hand was blocked by Malekith hence why it caused a powerful shock-wave, Malekith body didn't take the entire force of Thor's strike so it was disrupted around them, breaking curbstone in the process, which is far lesser than breaking reinforced concrete "one of the vital components that make up Skyscrapers". My answer is still Zod.

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#90 Posted by DarkseidThanos (360 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebestofthebest: the only time zod and superman created notable shockwaves was when they were bullrushing towards each other, supes blocked one of zods punches and that never made a shockwave like thors strike on malekith

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#91 Edited by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (4603 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkseidthanos Good for you. Superman/Zod physicality still outclass Thor's by infinite miles.

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#93 Posted by DarkseidThanos (360 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebestofthebest: I dont see the relevance of that in this thread, you answered the thread question and from a logical stand point I proved you wrong, then you say good for me and you just choose to shoot your wank all over, what's wrong with you?

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#94 Edited by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (4603 posts) - - Show Bio
@darkseidthanos said:

@thebestofthebest: I dont see the relevance of that in this thread, you answered the thread question, and I debate with you and you just choose to shoot your wank all over, what's wrong with you?

Well that escalated quickly. Maybe it is because I have no interest in arguing with you ?

Edit: Nice, editing your post.

you answered the thread question and from a logical stand point I proved you wrong,

Hardly.

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#95 Edited by DarkseidThanos (360 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebestofthebest: escalated to what? You seem to be a very hostile person, I apologize for proving you wrong

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#96 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (4603 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebestofthebest: escalated to what? You seem to be a very hostile person

Your definition of "hostile" is quite odd. I simply have no interest in arguing with you, how's that considered "hostile" ?

I apologize for proving you wrong

Why apologize for something you didn't do ?

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#97 Posted by DarkseidThanos (360 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebestofthebest: this seems like an altercation over fictional characters rather than a debate over them so I'm done here, what you originally said was wrong tho cause supes blocked one of zods attacks and it didn't create a shockwave, and yes supes out classes Thor, I don't know why you found the need to say that tho

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#98 Edited by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (4603 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkseidthanos: this seems like an altercation over fictional characters rather than a debate over them so I'm done here

What part of "I have no interest in arguing with you" you don't understand ? But hey since you want to debate so badly, let me give you the satisfaction:

what you originally said was wrong tho cause supes blocked one of zods attacks and it didn't create a shockwave,

Isn't it obvious ? The punch in the OP was clearly more powerful than the said ones. Plus, few seconds later, the results of Superman punching Zod destroyed a good portion of the Skyscraper without actually having to touch the Skyscraper. All in all, Superman striking force is measured by the amount of collateral damage he caused while interacting with Zod and other individuals.

and yes supes out classes Thor, I don't know why you found the need to say that tho

Like you said, that's out of topic.

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#99 Edited by DarkseidThanos (360 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebestofthebest: you think I wanna debate with you badly?

Like I said this seems like an altercation over fictional characters so I reserve my right to no longer engage in this

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#100 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (4603 posts) - - Show Bio