Which Sith Lords can beat Yoda?

I'm not sure. Possibly. Recently replayed KOTOR 2 and my opinion of him has gone up.

What changed? I've always been of the opinion that you don't resist drain unless you are The Exile.

@void_reborn: Previously I'd assumed that the likes of Mace (with his knowledge of Vaapad) and Yoda (who'd claimed to have dabbled in the Dark Side when he was younger and seemed to have great knowledge of it) could resist the drain long enough to close the gap, but now I'm not sure. I think Nihilus' drain is just too powerful for anyone but the most knowledgeable Jedi (e.g. GM Luke) and Sith (e.g. Sidious and Valkorion, maybe Vader via Dark Reaper) to withstand for even a few seconds. Not to mention they'll have to take a second or two to break through his Force defences.

Ironically Vader couldn't even withstand the full power of the Dark Reaper, which is a joke compared to Nihilus at the height of his power.

I agree with you on the rest of that. His drain is something else.

@void_reborn: Ironically Vader couldn't even withstand the full power of the Dark Reaper, which is a joke compared to Nihilus at the height of his power.

Eh, if Vader has anything over Anakin, it's knowledge and mastery. I think that his drain resistance would be vastly better than Anakin's few hours of teaching gave him.

I agree with you on the rest of that. His drain is something else.

Yeah, there are only a handful of beings I can see beating him with that, and Yoda isn't one of them. Mace might via Vaapad's ability to rebuff DS energy (unlikely), and Valkorion, (maybe) GM Luke and Sidious definitely can.

Sidious-10/10

Valkorian-8/10

Prime Vader-7/10

Nihilus-6/10

Caedus- 3/10

Tulak Hord-4/10

Vader has better knowledge and mastery but he has never had a need to come back to what Ulic taught him because he was never faced with drain the likes of that ever again. The only way that works is if we assume the technique gets more effective the more powerful he becomes. Judging by the fact that the game plot was making it as if Anakin was the only one for the task even though Mace and Yoda were around and were both much more powerful than post-AOTC Anakin, that's probably not the case.

I'm not sure about Vaapad. A wound in the force might just ignore anything Vaapad would normally do to DS users.

Yeah I agree if Plagueis could, somehow, pull off some MM before Yoda turns this into a fight then he would win but I don't see that happening to be honest so I would bet on Yoda here.

Regarding Krayt, he can actually use Force Drain as has been shown in Abeloth's fight. So if he could do that to Yoda he could actually win this. It comes down to whether he could drain and weaken Yoda before this turns into a lightsaber duel.

Regarding this question, Yoda has never shown any kind of resistance capability to Force Drain let alone one of Nihilus's caliber. For example, in the Dark Reaper events, it is clearly stated that only Anakin would have a chance at defeating it and anyone else would be instantly killed. This clearly indicates that Yoda cannot resist Force Drain as he doesn't have the knowledge/Ulic's technique to do so. This even shows that being powerful in the Force is irrelevant to resisting such Drain as Yoda is clearly superior than Anakin in the Reaper events.

The only speculation left here is whether Anakin taught Ulic's technique to Yoda after but even that is doubtful as there has been no confrontation of anything like the Reaper beyond this point rendering it pointless to teach the technique which was only needed for a specific event. There is no evidence of such teaching ever taking place between Anakin and Yoda or even anyone else for that matter. As a matter of fact, Ulic's technique even indicates a Dark Side sort of knowledge/technique as he tells Anakin that it comes at 'great risk' and to use it carefully or 'it will lead you to the dark side'. Even then, we don't even know if Anakin could actually teach the technique as he was still receiving a lot of guidance from Ulic throughout the Reaper fight indicating he hasn't really mastered the technique itself and still needed assistance in resisting the Reaper.

And then there is the question of whether Ulic's technique, which was specifically to resist the Reaper for a 'short period of time', would even be effective enough against someone like Nihilus who has more proficient Force Draining capability than the Reaper due to the fact that he took Force Draining to new levels of Draining an entire planet with it.

Based on the above, I do think Nihilus can definitely drain Yoda and the only evidence we have supports this while no evidence contradicts it.

Only sith I think can reliably beat Yoda are sidious and krayt. Valkorian loses a majority as do most other sith.

@thebluedragon20:Valkorion isn't a Sith, which is why he's exempt from Sidious supremacy until ROTJ (when Sidious is clarified as the most powerful Dark Sider).

@khaledibr: I'm inclined to agree with you, honestly.

@void_reborn

Vader has better knowledge and mastery but he has never had a need to come back to what Ulic taught him because he was never faced with drain the likes of that ever again. The only way that works is if we assume the technique gets more effective the more powerful he becomes. Judging by the fact that the game plot was making it as if Anakin was the only one for the task even though Mace and Yoda were around and were both much more powerful than post-AOTC Anakin, that's probably not the case.

Eh, I'd say Vader would have learned everything he could about the Dark Side, which included such esoteric and obscure techniques as Doppelganger and Alchemy. Especially if he planned to overthrow Sheev. This is purely speculation, though. I'd be banking on Vader using his far greater mastery and knowledge (and power, as compared to AOTC Anakin) to resist it just long enough to strike down Nihilus.

I'm not sure about Vaapad. A wound in the force might just ignore anything Vaapad would normally do to DS users.

Yeah, I'm not sure how effective Vaapad would be. It's adept at channelling nascent and unrefined DS energy like that Mace possesses in droves or the kind Sidious was unleashing against him and he was countering, but Nihilus' drain isn't technically a "Dark Side" technique. It's the absence of Light and Dark itself. Vaapad would probably be useless.

Like... beat at all? Even for a minority?

The Son - 10/10

Sidious - 6/10

Vitate - 4/10

Mother Talzin - 3/10

Nihilus - 3/10

Marka Ragnos - 2/10

Caedus - 2/10

Revan - 1/10

Honestly nobody else stands a chance even for a minority.

@khaledibr: I completely agree.

@breakofdawn: Regarding Vaapad, quite likely it would be useless.

Honestly I've been thinking about it recently and I kind of doubt Nihilus would just die the moment his opponent gets close enough to duel him while they are being drained. Assuming they can resist it at all, so long as the fight continues, Nihilus is gaining power while the opposition is being rapidly weakened. This would probably also apply to how the duel goes, because force users rely on force augmentation. No matter how great the skill disparity is, Nihilus might end up dancing around the opponent just out of how much force energy they've lost at the point. He's not exactly a terrible duelist either, we've just gotten one significant duel out of him when he was severely weakened multiple times and it was also against probably the top Jedi of the time.

Dooku already beat him during a duel on tatooine.

So Dooku.

No one except Sidious and Valkorion.

SOR Revan and Caedus would be tough for little green boy but Yoda is still superior to them.

Any other cannot be comparable.

vader stomp

Sidious,

Nyax,

Dooku (only if he's very lucky and cunning like he was on Tatooine when he cheapshotted a Yoda with his back turned in mid-leap),

KFV/unhindered MFV,

The Outlander (for the sake of the question, I'm referring to the non-canon choice where they're originally an Imperial character and rejoin the Sith Empire as a Sith Lord),

Nihilus (via drain only),

Talzin (possibly),

Krayt.

I would definitely say Sidious, Caedus, Vader and Krayt could. Some other possible candidates are:

Vol, Plagueis ( potentially through midichlorian manipulation ), Nihilus ( potentially via his unique brand of drain ).

Darth Maul could. Literally any Sith Lord could stomp Yoda. Why is this even a question?

How Maul could win Yoda?

Darth Maul kick is the solar system level. Big power. Maul oneshot gremlin

@void_reborn said:

@sheevsmacker said:

@void_reborn said:

Darth Maul could. Literally any Sith Lord could stomp Yoda. Why is this even a question?

How Maul could win Yoda?

Darth Maul kick is the solar system level. Big power. Maul oneshot gremlin

that is good point

but darth maul lose the sheev her

e

Yoda can ragdoll the Sheev by a feats.

@sheevsmacker: The Sheev also ragdoll Yoda with lightning and Maul kick Sheevy with solar system power. Maul >/= Sheev = Yoda

if fight normal, is good fight

if yoda let Maul kick, he one shotted because he small

Good, good.

Can see logistic or not? Yode be ragdoll the Sheeving with force push while aware. Yoda be catch off guard by sheev lighting he not a prepared. You also not addressing fact that the Sheev can atomise a Maul in bladelock disarmament. it a stomp really. sheev win the maul.

Yoda let Maul kick? Don't be fanboy lmao.

Maul be a smaller than that which are Yoda. Add s sound to Maul and you get small. Yoda >>>> Maul in size by feat and logic.

Yoda aware Sidious extending finger to him and shoot the lightning. Both aware. Both ragdolled.

Sheev atomise Maul in bladelock because he lucky. Savage got the die and Maul sad. He no fight at full power.

Yoda get kicked like soccer ball. His remains is fly to the nearest start system

Ok I concede that Maul smaller than Yoda. SMaul

In Legends, Dooku beat Yoda on Tatooine and Sidious kinda beat him in the senate chambers.

Darth Plagueis, Darth Tyranus and Darth Sidious all certainly can when it comes to AOTC Yoda and when it comes to ROTS, only Sidious can really.

Yoda aware Sidious extending finger to him and shoot the lightning. Both aware. Both ragdolled.

You have proof or not? What if Sidious have invisible finger by feat? Yoda not even see finger while Sheev cry when he get the force pish ragdoll. sheev be weak than the yoda. Yoda be not scream here let me show you in official rots script:

Sheev: *shoot the lightning*

Yoda: *silence*

Let me show you what happen when Yoda attack the Sheev:

Yoda: *do epic force push*

Sheev: *scream and cry*

-When Sheev be lightning the Yode he say nothing. No reaction. Yoda no sell Sheev lightning. CANON

-When Yode push the Sheev, Sheev ONCE AGAIN SCREAM in pain and he canot do anything. CANON

Sheev SCREAM AND CRYin pain when Yoda push him, when Yode be a lightning by the Sheev, he not scream.

In the end Yoda treat the Sheev like a trash. CANON.

Sheev atomise Maul in bladelock because he lucky. Savage got the die and Maul sad. He no fight at full power.

Maul not sad that Savage die.

Can see tear? No. Maul not sad. CANON. If Sheev be atomise Fodder Maul in bladelock then Yoda be same but easy.

He no fight at full power.

You proof or are you Maul fanboy?

Yoda get kicked like soccer ball. His remains is fly to the nearest start system

If Maul be kicking a Yode then Maul break his foot and cry. Unlike at Savage death where he not sad. Maul if kick a yoda.

Ok I concede that Maul smaller than Yoda. SMaul

Corrcect.

Everyone here. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Sith_Lords_of_the_resurgent_Sith_Empire

Anathemos

Darth Andru

Ar'al Anec

Darth Angral

Anok

Anril

Argos

Arosh

Atren

etc.

Dooku cheap-shotted Yoda, for the record:

He suckered him into believing he'd become weaker, then hit him in the back with Force Lightning while he was still in the air. Dooku has never been able to beat, nor even gain the upper hand, against Yoda.

@breakofdawn: Care to show the next scan?

That's your personal headcanon to explain why Yoda lost. There's no actual proof Dooku was 'faking' anything in the actual comic.

The most you could actually say is that based off the scans, is that Yoda used the typical battle banter we normally see in starwars and Dooku lucked out a victory.

or

Yoda underestimated Dooku, and that resulted in his loss.

@mysterymeat: Care to show the next scan?

Not entirely sure what you expect it to reveal. As I recall, Yoda is injured and then the Jawas surround them.

That's your personal headcanon to explain why Yoda lost. There's no actual proof Dooku was 'faking' anything in the actual comic.

Um, what?

Yoda in AOTC:

"Powerful you have become, Dooku. The Dark Side, I sense in you."

-

"Fought well you have, my old padawan."

Yoda in this duel:

Yoda believed that, in the space of 2 years, Dooku's abilities had somehow magically declined from a new level Yoda acknowledged he'd attained by turning to the Dark Side. Despite having duelled Dooku previously, commenting himself on Dooku's skill and knowing his capabilities, he suddenly comments that Dooku's skills have significantly atrophied. Why would he do that, unless Dooku were suckering him?

@breakofdawn:

Not entirely sure what you expect it to reveal. As I recall, Yoda is injured and then the Jawas surround them.

Can you show it?

Despite having duelled Dooku previously, commenting himself on Dooku's skill and knowing his capabilities, he suddenly comments that Dooku's skills have significantly atrophied. Why would he do that, unless Dooku were suckering him?

Again:

Yoda used the typical battle banter we normally see in starwars and Dooku lucked out a victory.

or

Yoda underestimated Dooku, and Tyranus beat him.

There is literally nothing that indicates Dooku was ''faking'' his power level while fighting Yoda. Its just your headcanon to explain why Yoda lost his duel to Dooku.

any tier 9 sith has a chance of beating Yoda... Nihilus doesn't but thats ok sub-Darth Revan characters shouldn't stand a chance against Yoda.

So Sidious, Valkorian, Krayt, Caedus you know the solidly tier 9 people.

only Sidious and Krayt could do it for a majority though

Vader could hold his own. Lol. No Sidious for sure.

Sidious as of TPM is confirmed GOAT Sith so every one before that is out since after 13 years of growth he had hell with Yoda. Maybe Vol depending on how high you rank Luke......... That's it.

I mean there are others like Nyax and Kueller but they're not strictly "Sith"

Yoda is sub-Ventress. Maul stomps.

@void_reborn: Where is that coming from?

Anakin Skywalker is the most powerful Jedi in history:

This is Anakin Skywalker:

The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace.

He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it.

Source: Revenge of the Sith

Gillard also reports that the duel will explain how Obi-Wan is able to defeat his protege, even though Anakin has been established as the most powerful Jedi who ever lived.

Source: The Making of Revenge of the Sith

"Fully defeated by just anyone, the dark side cannot be, but only by the Chosen One. And who might be this Jedi? Know I do not, but not yet born is he or she. This much, sense I can. A vessel of pure Force the Chosen One will be, more powerful than any Jedi in history."

Source: Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force

Even after all these months, she couldn't make herself entirely believe that actual Jedi blood ran in her veins-not only Jedi blood, but the blood of arguably the most powerful Jedi in history.

Source: Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor

Anakin Skywalker is the most powerful Jedi in over a thousand years.

Source: Star Wars Miniatures: Ultimate Missions: Revenge of the Sith

At nine years of age he had been an expert Podracer; by twenty-one he would have been a galactic champion. With or without Qui-Gon's or Watto's help, he would eventually have won the Boonta Eve race, and his reputation would have been made. He would have bought freedom for himself, his mother, all the slaves in Mos Espa, gone on to win the Grand Races on Malastare, been hailed in the gambling casinos on Ord Mantell and Coruscant. He wouldn't have become a Jedi--he would have been too old to train--would never have learned to wield a lightsaber. But he would have been able to fly rings around the finest of Jedi pilots, including Saesee Tiin.

And he still would have been stronger in the Force than any of them.

Source: Labyrinth of Evil

"Skywalker is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive, and he is still getting stronger."

Source: Revenge of the Sith

"We won't try, Anakin. We will do. After all, they are only Senators. Most of them couldn't hide what they're thinking from a brain-damaged blindworm, let alone the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy."

Source: Revenge of the Sith

Obi-Wan Kenobi has endured the unenviable task of training the Jedi Order's most powerful and headstrong young Jedi, Anakin Skywalker.

Source: Star Wars Miniatures: Ultimate Missions: Revenge of the Sith

One of the most powerful Jedi Knight of his time, Anakin was prophesized to bring balance to the Force. Some members of the Jedi Council distrusted his immense power and emotion.

Source: Force Collection

Yoda is Jedi

Anakin > Yoda

Ventress is force choke both Anakin and Obi-Wan

Ventress > Anakin + Obi-Wan > Anakin > Yoda

Maul is strong than Ventress

Maul stomp the gremlin

Morals off Yoda could defeat any sith. If he tapped to the dark side of the force. But I suppose thats too non canon to be considered.

@void_reborn said:

@mysterymeat said:

@void_reborn: Where is that coming from?

Anakin Skywalker is the most powerful Jedi in history:

This is Anakin Skywalker:

The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace.

He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it.

Source: Revenge of the Sith

Gillard also reports that the duel will explain how Obi-Wan is able to defeat his protege, even though Anakin has been established as the most powerful Jedi who ever lived.

Source: The Making of Revenge of the Sith

"Fully defeated by just anyone, the dark side cannot be, but only by the Chosen One. And who might be this Jedi? Know I do not, but not yet born is he or she. This much, sense I can. A vessel of pure Force the Chosen One will be, more powerful than any Jedi in history."

Source: Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force

Even after all these months, she couldn't make herself entirely believe that actual Jedi blood ran in her veins-not only Jedi blood, but the blood of arguably the most powerful Jedi in history.

Source: Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor

Anakin Skywalker is the most powerful Jedi in over a thousand years.

Source: Star Wars Miniatures: Ultimate Missions: Revenge of the Sith

At nine years of age he had been an expert Podracer; by twenty-one he would have been a galactic champion. With or without Qui-Gon's or Watto's help, he would eventually have won the Boonta Eve race, and his reputation would have been made. He would have bought freedom for himself, his mother, all the slaves in Mos Espa, gone on to win the Grand Races on Malastare, been hailed in the gambling casinos on Ord Mantell and Coruscant. He wouldn't have become a Jedi--he would have been too old to train--would never have learned to wield a lightsaber. But he would have been able to fly rings around the finest of Jedi pilots, including Saesee Tiin.

And he still would have been stronger in the Force than any of them.

Source: Labyrinth of Evil

"Skywalker is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive, and he is still getting stronger."

Source: Revenge of the Sith

"We won't try, Anakin. We will do. After all, they are only Senators. Most of them couldn't hide what they're thinking from a brain-damaged blindworm, let alone the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy."

Source: Revenge of the Sith

Obi-Wan Kenobi has endured the unenviable task of training the Jedi Order's most powerful and headstrong young Jedi, Anakin Skywalker.

Source: Star Wars Miniatures: Ultimate Missions: Revenge of the Sith

One of the most powerful Jedi Knight of his time, Anakin was prophesized to bring balance to the Force. Some members of the Jedi Council distrusted his immense power and emotion.

Source: Force Collection

Yoda is Jedi

Anakin > Yoda

Ventress is force choke both Anakin and Obi-Wan

Ventress > Anakin + Obi-Wan > Anakin > Yoda

Maul is strong than Ventress

Maul stomp the gremlin

This

Ventress can atomise fodder that is Yoda.

but maul is die.

Even Sidious flees from Yoda

Ventress stomp

Sidious. Can't think of anyone else.

@mysterymeat:

Can you show it?

I don't have the comic.

Again:

Yoda used the typical battle banter we normally see in starwars and Dooku lucked out a victory.

Yoda rarely ever smack talks during an actual lightsaber duel.

or

Yoda underestimated Dooku, and Tyranus beat him.

There is literally nothing that indicates Dooku was ''faking'' his power level while fighting Yoda. Its just your headcanon to explain why Yoda lost his duel to Dooku.

Irrelevant. It's still a clear indication that Dooku can't beat Yoda under normal circumstances. I've agreed above that Dooku can win via pure luck, but that's it. When PIS and character stupidity is removed (AKA Yoda fights like he has in every other fight they've had), he's clearly superior.

Beat for majority? Not many. Beat overall, even if 1/10? A few..

- Sidious 7/10

- Caedus 6/10

- Vitiate 4/10

- Ragnos 5/10

- Nihilus 6/10

- Freedon Nadd 2/10

- Exar Kun 3/10

- Talzin 3/10

- Revan 2/10

- Plagueis 2/10

- JVA Desann 1/10

@bayman007:

@void_reborn said:

@mysterymeat said:

@void_reborn: Where is that coming from?

Anakin Skywalker is the most powerful Jedi in history:

This is Anakin Skywalker:

The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace.

He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it.

Source: Revenge of the Sith

Gillard also reports that the duel will explain how Obi-Wan is able to defeat his protege, even though Anakin has been established as the most powerful Jedi who ever lived.

Source: The Making of Revenge of the Sith

"Fully defeated by just anyone, the dark side cannot be, but only by the Chosen One. And who might be this Jedi? Know I do not, but not yet born is he or she. This much, sense I can. A vessel of pure Force the Chosen One will be, more powerful than any Jedi in history."

Source: Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force

Even after all these months, she couldn't make herself entirely believe that actual Jedi blood ran in her veins-not only Jedi blood, but the blood of arguably the most powerful Jedi in history.

Source: Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor

Anakin Skywalker is the most powerful Jedi in over a thousand years.

Source: Star Wars Miniatures: Ultimate Missions: Revenge of the Sith

At nine years of age he had been an expert Podracer; by twenty-one he would have been a galactic champion. With or without Qui-Gon's or Watto's help, he would eventually have won the Boonta Eve race, and his reputation would have been made. He would have bought freedom for himself, his mother, all the slaves in Mos Espa, gone on to win the Grand Races on Malastare, been hailed in the gambling casinos on Ord Mantell and Coruscant. He wouldn't have become a Jedi--he would have been too old to train--would never have learned to wield a lightsaber. But he would have been able to fly rings around the finest of Jedi pilots, including Saesee Tiin.

And he still would have been stronger in the Force than any of them.

Source: Labyrinth of Evil

"Skywalker is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive, and he is still getting stronger."

Source: Revenge of the Sith

"We won't try, Anakin. We will do. After all, they are only Senators. Most of them couldn't hide what they're thinking from a brain-damaged blindworm, let alone the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy."

Source: Revenge of the Sith

Obi-Wan Kenobi has endured the unenviable task of training the Jedi Order's most powerful and headstrong young Jedi, Anakin Skywalker.

Source: Star Wars Miniatures: Ultimate Missions: Revenge of the Sith

One of the most powerful Jedi Knight of his time, Anakin was prophesized to bring balance to the Force. Some members of the Jedi Council distrusted his immense power and emotion.

Source: Force Collection

Yoda is Jedi

Anakin > Yoda

Ventress is force choke both Anakin and Obi-Wan

Ventress > Anakin + Obi-Wan > Anakin > Yoda

Maul is strong than Ventress

Maul stomp the gremlin

Dooku and Yoda's fight in the comic was under normal circumstances, though? I would understand if you were talking about Vjun Dooku, because even while amped, he didn't manage to defeat Yoda, (proof of power growth towards ROTS) which was quite long into the Clone Wars.

Yoda would have a good fight with plagueis; anyone else like Jacen, Krayt, and Valk would get spanked.