Which Sith Lords can beat Yoda?

  • 178 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
Avatar image for nfactor1995
nfactor1995

14527

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

No Caption Provided

Assuming all are at the peak of their powers and abilities, which Sith Lords can beat Yoda in a fight? The Sith can be from any era. EU and movie versions of the characters.

Avatar image for thevivas
TheVivas

20217

Forum Posts

58564

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Sidious

Avatar image for the_caped_crusader
The_Caped_Crusader

10716

Forum Posts

520

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Darth Sidious.

Avatar image for ques1n
Ques1n

56

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#5  Edited By Ques1n

Sidious. Vitiate can too but not for a majority. The rest, probably not.

Avatar image for leo-343
Leo-343

30909

Forum Posts

4870

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

All at peak? Jacen with Oneness.

Avatar image for pharoh_atem
Pharoh_Atem

44471

Forum Posts

10114

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

Sidious, Vitiate, arguably Darth Caedus and arguably Darth Nihilus.

Avatar image for wollfmyth209
WollfMyth209

17555

Forum Posts

3513

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Sidious.

Vitiate can, not sure if for a majority.

Caedus can, too, arguably. But, again, not for a majority.

Avatar image for pharoh_atem
Pharoh_Atem

44471

Forum Posts

10114

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

#9  Edited By Pharoh_Atem
Avatar image for wollfmyth209
WollfMyth209

17555

Forum Posts

3513

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#10  Edited By WollfMyth209

@dccomicsrule2011:

Doesn't Yoda have Drain resistence?

I remember many posters on CV implied he did.

And once factor doesn't mean autowin, tbh

Avatar image for pharoh_atem
Pharoh_Atem

44471

Forum Posts

10114

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

@wollfmyth209:

As far as I know, no. I'll ask Aurbere later on though, since he's my go to Yoda expert.

And nah, drain doesn't give him an automatic victory, but it's a way for him to win that Yoda has zero answer for.

Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

arguably Darth Caedus and arguably Darth Nihilus.

Caedus can, too, arguably. But, again, not for a majority.

Caedus wouldn't take a single win over Yoda. And I'm not certain Nihilus will be able to squeeze Yoda dry before the furball decapitates him.

Avatar image for pharoh_atem
Pharoh_Atem

44471

Forum Posts

10114

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

#13  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

@i_like_swords:

Ehh.

I still say Caedus could take Yoda. His showing against Luke is not vandictive of anything, since Yoda wouldn't fair any better against a prime Luke when he isn't jobbing. Plus, Jacen's other showings are enough for me to say he can get wins against Yoda. His TK feats can match Yoda's; his barrier/deflection is easily above Yoda's; his speed feats shouldn't be too far behind, and his raw skill with a blade is still enough to give Yoda fits to me.

Nihilus TK, and drain is enough to take out Yoda, in my eyes.

Avatar image for laflux
laflux

25043

Forum Posts

2367

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Sidious would take a majority.

Not sure about The Sith Emperor though.

Cadeus and The Muun might be able to steal a few wins too.

Avatar image for wollfmyth209
WollfMyth209

17555

Forum Posts

3513

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Caedus wouldn't take a single win over Yoda.

I don't see why not, really.

And I'm not certain Nihilus will be able to squeeze Yoda dry before the furball decapitates him.

Agreed.

Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@dccomicsrule2011:

His showing against Luke is not vandictive of anything, since Yoda wouldn't fair any better against a prime Luke when he isn't jobbing.

Yoda nearly stalemating Sidious is a better showing of combat ability than decisively losing to a Luke who was extensively injured for most of the fight.

His TK feats can match Yoda's, his barrier/deflection is easily above Yoda's; his speed feats shouldn't be too far behind

I don't really care, dude. The fact of the matter is, Yoda is a closer match for Sidious [the most powerful Sith Lord to date] in any given category that relates to a fight than you can justify Caedus being. I can make a pretty convincing argument for either Vitiate or Plagueis being more powerful than Caedus and neither are quite as good as Sidious.

and his raw skill with a blade is still enough to give Yoda fits to me.

His raw skill? Yoda is a master of every lightsaber discipline and went toe-to-toe with Sidious - a guy who is also a master of every lightsaber discipline. Sidious made Darth Maul's "raw skill" look like a joke while holding back, and that's with Savage [a confirmed master of saberstaff combat with the feats to back it up] helping him at the same time. Yoda made Depa Billaba, Saesee Tiin and Plo Koon [all renowned swordmasters] look like a collective joke all at the same time without even drawing his blade or moving more than a few feet (in Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter).

What has Caedus done to compare to either of them in similar situations?

I think this quote pretty much sums up why Sidious and by extension Yoda are definitively ahead of Caedus.

"Pertaining to whether Sidious is right-handed or left-handed with a lightsaber, he's ambidextrous. He's just that good. Sidious' abilities are beyond anything we've experienced. It took a really long time for Nick (Gillard) to work out Sidious' fighting style, and he has a style that's constantly changing. His style is one in which you'll never get the better of him. It is ambiguous --- he'll fight less than you and draw you in; you're a sucker if you think you're going to better him. Sidious is a master of every weapon and every style."

--Nick Gillard/George Lucas (credit to NewGuy01 for the quote)

Nihilus TK, and drain is enough to take out Yoda, in my eyes.

Based on what?

Avatar image for ques1n
Ques1n

56

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@wollfmyth209: @ques1n: How is Yoda beating Vitiate? the latter could drain him at whim...

Yoda compares to Sidious, the most powerful Sith ever. Vitiate is good, but I don't see him draining Yoda before he's received a fatal lightsaber wound.

Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@i_like_swords said:

Caedus wouldn't take a single win over Yoda.

I don't see why not, really.

He doesn't have a single notable edge.

Avatar image for pharoh_atem
Pharoh_Atem

44471

Forum Posts

10114

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

@ques1n said:
@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@wollfmyth209: @ques1n: How is Yoda beating Vitiate? the latter could drain him at whim...

Yoda compares to Sidious, the most powerful Sith ever. Vitiate is good, but I don't see him draining Yoda before he's received a fatal lightsaber wound.

I'm not sure if Palpatine is even more powerful than current Vitiate, but fair enough.

Avatar image for wollfmyth209
WollfMyth209

17555

Forum Posts

3513

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

He doesn't have a single notable edge.

Aside from durability, and defensive Force techniques and versatility, you mean.

Caedus is comparable to Yoda in virtually every area, and outweighs in some. He can surely take a round or two.

Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@wollfmyth209:

Aside from durability, and defensive Force techniques and versatility, you mean.

That's a maybe to all of them, and I asked for notable edges.

Caedus is comparable to Yoda in virtually every area, and outweighs in some. He can surely take a round or two.

According to you. From where I'm sitting Yoda is better in every important area and thus shouldn't lose to Caedus. He's the more technically capable duelist with better Force augmentation, he's stronger with the Force substantially, and he has better combat accomplishments to back it all up. I think you'll find that there's a reason for why the only areas in which you deem Caedus to be better are ones Yoda hasn't been tested in extensively. In ones they've both had their chance to shine in, Yoda's shone brighter. It's really that simple.

Avatar image for wollfmyth209
WollfMyth209

17555

Forum Posts

3513

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#22  Edited By WollfMyth209

@i_like_swords:

That's a maybe to all of them, and I asked for notable edges.

Versatility and defensive powers are certainly notable areas.

He's the more technically capable duelist

And Cin has superior technical skill, and Anakin stomped him. It's not that important, and their seperate feats of combat are relatively close. What Yoda did to Depa, Plo, and Saesee is pretty good. Though Caedus's feat against Kyle, Corran, and two other masters(while ambushed, hindered, and pre-prime) should be comparable to that. Yoda besting a renowned swordsman like Dooku quickly is matched by Caedus stalemating Jaina Solo Fel while missing an arm and having a hole in his stomach. Him competing with Luke Skywalker for a good amount of time is comparable to Yoda stalemating Sidious. Generally, they're pretty close in skill and I don't see much of a gap.

with better Force augmentation,

Sure.

he's stronger with the Force substantially

Stronger - yes. But not substantially. Caedus, while still Jacen and before his prime, has casually hurled ships. By the time he's Caedus, and is more powerful, he should be comparable to Yoda; since the Grandmaster's best telekinetic feat is manipulating two CIS transport ships casually. Yoda's better, but not exactly by a lot. And this is just telekinesis.

I think you'll find that there's a reason the only areas in which you deem Caedus to be better are ones Yoda hasn't been tested in extensively.

The only area we haven't seen Yoda shine in that Caedus has is versatility. We've seen Yoda's defensive limits - his best feats are deflecting a pre-prime Sidious's Force Lighting for a time before being overwhelmed, casually deflecting Dooku's lighting.

We've also seen his durability limits - he was out of the game after a fall that he endured after his duel with Sidious. Sure, one could argue Yoda was exhausted at the time, and he'd do considerably better if at full capacity, but Jacen's feats of continuing to fight one of the most skilled Jedi of that and possibly all time while missing an arm and bleeding out, competing with Kyle Katarn, Corran and two other masters while hindered and pre-prime, and beating Mara Jade while poisoned and not yet a Sith is noticeably better.

In ones they've both had their chance to shine in, Yoda's shone brighter. It's really that simple.

Yes, Yoda's better. But, again, it shouldn't be by that wide a margin that Caedus couldn't beat him for 1 or two rounds.

Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@wollfmyth209:

Versatility and defensive powers are certainly notable areas.

Explain how they're going to net Caedus a win.

And Cin has superior technical skill, and Anakin stomped him.

You're using the comparison incorrectly, because Yoda's strength in the Force and augmentation is also better than Caedus'. Anakin stomped Drallig because of the massive power disparity that fuels their lightsaber technique.

It's not that important

Of course it is. If two beings are comparable physically and in terms of their Force strength (or in this case, Caedus is weaker), what's going to separate them other than their skill?

and their seperate feats of combat are relatively close. What Yoda did to Depa, Plo, and Saesee is pretty good. Though Caedus's feat against Kyle, Corran, and two other masters(while ambushed, hindered, and pre-prime) should be comparable to that.

Going to need more detail than that, a quote preferably.

Yoda besting a renowned swordsman like Dooku quickly is matched by Caedus stalemating Jaina Solo Fel while missing an arm and having a hole in his stomach.

Not really, because Dooku is clearly better than Jaina and Yoda's outfought him even on a powerful dark side nexus.

Him competing with Luke Skywalker for a good amount of time is comparable to Yoda stalemating Sidious.

Not at all. I've explained why thoroughly in this thread. Caedus was losing to Luke and admitted that he was on the verge of losing at the climax of the fight before it was interrupted. And that's with Luke suffering from much worse injuries while Caedus for the most part fed off of the pain of artificial flesh wounds. Yoda in comparison came close to stalemating Sidious on even terms, a Sith stronger than Caedus by a very clear margin.

Stronger - yes. But not substantially. Caedus, while still Jacen and before his prime, has casually hurled ships. By the time he's Caedus, and is more powerful, he should be comparable to Yoda; since the Grandmaster's best telekinetic feat is manipulating two CIS transport ships casually. Yoda's better, but not exactly by a lot. And this is just telekinesis.

I don't really care for comparing how big the ships are that they've hurled. Like I said before, Plagueis (whom alongside Sidious engaged the Force in a tug of war with enough strength to allow the Dark Side to take a prominent hold over the Force, and caused it to spawn a Chosen One in retaliation), and Vitiate (whose power is such that he can drain an entire planet of it's life force and also pimp smack strike teams that would give Caedus hell), are both more powerful than Caedus in my estimation, and both below Sidious canonically speaking. Yoda by proxy is around their level or higher depending on how you argue it.

Caedus isn't operating on the same level as any of those mentioned before as a Force user, which is why Luke nonchalantly pinned the guy to a chair without gesture or effort for several minutes and could have done so indefinitely from an indefinite distance, only letting him go when he stops concentrating.

The only area we haven't seen Yoda shine in that Caedus has is versatility. We've seen Yoda's defensive limits - his best feats are deflecting a pre-prime Sidious's Force Lighting for a time before being overwhelmed, casually deflecting Dooku's lighting.

Right, but you don't seem to be aware of how imbalanced energy-related feats are in SW. A capital ship turbolaser (which Caedus has absorbed) makes Sidious' lightning look lolworthy, so using your system of comparison it'd be impossible to justify Sidious being able to do anything other than get destroyed by that kind of cannon, save for pointing out that him being the greatest Sith is a fact.

What I'm saying is, we've never seen anyone fire a turbolaser at Yoda or Sidious, but put them under the same author as Caedus when he was able to and I can guarantee that they'd do the same. We know this because it's an eternal factor that Sidious is better than Caedus, and that Yoda is his light sided counterpart during Revenge of the Sith. There will always be a general standing for character levels regardless of varying authors, mediums and feats, and Yoda's is above that of Caedus'.

We've also seen his durability limits - he was out of the game after a fall that he endured after his duel with Sidious.

According to what? He looked fine after the fall itself. He fled because he wasn't able to defeat Sidious.

The fact alone he was able to endure the lightning of the most powerful Sith ever both at the start and climax of the fight suggests immense durability, as well as trading numerous strikes with him in the RotS novelisation (whereas Sidious has knocked out and disoriented Darth Maul and Savage Opress with single blows).

Sure, one could argue Yoda was exhausted at the time, and he'd do considerably better if at full capacity, but Jacen's feats of continuing to fight one of the most skilled Jedi of that and possibly all time while missing an arm and bleeding out, competing with Kyle Katarn, Corran and two other masters while hindered and pre-prime, and beating Mara Jade while poisoned and not yet a Sith is noticeably better.

Sure, Caedus has better endurance feats, but we've never seen Yoda stabbed by a lightsaber. Your comparison relies on the false idea that absence of evidence is evidence of absence, and that's just not how it works. Simple logic suggests that Yoda being a more powerful Force wielder than Caedus would have better reserves, and thus he'd have even better endurance.

And I want to remind you of the overarching point I'm making here: you're yet to make an actual argument for why endurance, versatility and defensive powers are going to actually net Caedus a win. Can you pose a scenario where any of that might trouble Yoda so much that his superior Force talent and swordsmanship won't be enough to win the fight?

Avatar image for deactivated-5fb6c77c8d900
deactivated-5fb6c77c8d900

14029

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

No one. :)

And I know literally nothing as it pertains to Star Wars. I'm serious. Never developed an interest in even the slightest degree.

I just like his green face and dont want to see him get hurt. He would defeat all

Avatar image for pharoh_atem
Pharoh_Atem

44471

Forum Posts

10114

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

#25  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

@i_like_swordssaid:

Yoda nearly stalemating Sidious is a better showing of combat ability than decisively losing to a Luke who was extensively injured for most of the fight.

Besides the fact that Luke, in his prime, is decisively above both Yoda and Papatine, I don't see why that is the case.

I don't really care, dude.

Don't know why you think I actually care what you think, LAWL.

The fact of the matter is, Yoda is a closer match for Sidious [the most powerful Sith Lord to date] in any given category that relates to a fight than you can justify Caedus being.

Based on what exactly? Jacen's feats and knowledge are both comparable to Yoda if you look at them objectively. Yoda has better hype, but then again - the NJO and legecy era respectively don't get anywhere near as attention as RotE era, so that isn't surprising. I would argue Yoda has better hype than Luke Skywalker as well, and we know for a fact Yoda isn't up to par with Luke in any category.

I can make a pretty convincing argument for either Vitiate or Plagueis being more powerful than Caedus and neither are quite as good as Sidious.

I must ask; what does this have to do with Caedus in the slightest? I already said Vitiate can take Yoda, and Plagueis himself can grab wins against him in 10 battles. Not to mention, whether Plagueis is more powerful than Jacen is debatable in it's own right.

Yoda isn't an equal for Sidious, so I don't know why this would matter.

What has Caedus done to compare to either of them in similar situations?

How about fighting his way through a volley of Yuuzhan Vong Slayers, the Yuuzhan Vong greatest warriors, ones in the exact same book defeated someone like Kyp Durron and Leia Organa Solo? Kyp Durron; the guy who mastered the art of Lightsaber combat with just a weeks worth of training, and after retraining canonically became a much more efficient Jedi cross the board? The guy was was placed on a similar tier, with someone who's can match the prowess of Darth Vader (Kyle Katarn) on the battle field; stomped his way through Yuuzhan Vong Warriors on countless occcasions? Or how about, while missing the arm and with a gaping wound in his gut, stalemated one of the most skilled and powerful Jedi in the Order's history, who was perfectly attuned to him? What about besting Kyle Katarn, Valin, Mithric, Valin, and Kolir while still feeling the effect of injuries placed upon him by the most skilled, and powerful mortal Force sensitive to ever live?

Yoda, or Sidious for that matter, isn't far above Caedus in the slightest.

Based on what?

Based on the fact he has swallowed up entire planets worth of Life energy casually, and tore an entire fleet from the monstrous gravity of the Mass Shadow Generator. Yoda has no defense against drain (which is why Anakin was like, the only Jedi capable of stopping the Dark Reaper and not Yoda), neither are his telekinetic feats matching Nihilus; he loses.

Avatar image for deactivated-5bfd5d714c687
deactivated-5bfd5d714c687

964

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Pretty much only Sidious. I can see how Nihilus and Vitiate could defeat Yoda, but it's unlikely imo. As for Yoda and Caedus, Yoda is just better where it really counts.

Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@dccomicsrule2011:

Just pointing out that I'm aware of the lite-trolling running through your posts. I'm just here to ruin your Caedus hype. :)

Besides the fact that Luke in his prime is decisively above both Yoda and Papatine

Prove that he's decisively enough ahead of them to back your argument that Caedus getting his ass whooped by a heavily weakened Luke puts him in Yoda's ball pit. I'll wait.

Based on what exactly?

Based on.. their fight? The one where they were pretty equal up until the end?

I must ask; what does this have to do with Caedus in the slightest? I already said Vitiate can take Yoda, and Plagueis himself can grab wins against him in 10 battles. Not to mention, whether Plagueis is more powerful than Jacen is debatable in it's own right.

Because if I can successfully argue that two dudes below Sidious are ahead of Caedus pretty damn noticeably, I won't have much bother arguing that Sidious'-near equal is as well. Simple logic.

Yoda isn't an equal for Sidious, so I don't know why this would matter.

He's about as close as you can get.

How about fighting his way through a volley of Yuuzhan Vong Slayers, the Yuuzhan Vong greatest warriors, ones in the exact same book defeated someone like Kyp Durron and Leia Organa Solo? Kyp Durron; the guy who mastered the art of Lightsaber combat with just a weeks worth of training, and after retraining canonically became a much more efficient Jedi cross the board? The guy was was placed on a similar tier, with someone who's can match the prowess of Darth Vader (Kyle Katarn) on the battle field?

I recall he did so alongside Luke and Jaina while in a battle meld with him. If that's the case then... pretty disappointed in you leaving out context as important as that. Having said that, nah; beating Yuuzhan Vong with some buddies isn't putting you on Sidious' level and you haven't even tried to make an argument for as much aside from just mentioning the feat.

Also, chuckled at Katarn being as good as Vader. He's weaker in just about every aspect.

Or how about, while missing the arm and with a gaping wound in his gut, stalemated one of the most skilled and powerful Jedi in the Order's history, who was perfectly attune to him?

Again, in what way is this feat supposed to be comparable to Yoda's fight with the most powerful Sith to ever exist? Caedus being pretty close to Jaina with his physical abilities taken down a far notch isn't exactly convincing me of anything outside of the fact that Caedus is a Jaina-tier duelist with much, much beefier physicals. In comparison, Sidious has proven that even when holding back he can embarrass someone of Jaina's calibre (Maul) while he's got help from another master duelist, and that's without abusing his much greater strength and speed, competing predominantly on a plane of technical skill.

What about besting Kyle Katarn, Valin, Mithric, Valin, and Kolir while still feeling the effect of injury from the most skilled and powerful mortal Force sensitive to ever live?

Considering Yoda has embarrassed better competition with much, much less strain, I'm not seeing the parity. Referring to Plo Koon (accoladed as one of the most powerful Jedi to ever exist, renowned for his lightsaber skill and has feats placing him not too far off of someone like Kenobi or Maul), Depa Billaba (someone good enough to receive extensive praise from Mace Windu for her blade talent) and Saesee Tiin (someone who could spar on even terms with Mace Windu, despite the fact Mace can and has picked duelists apart during sparring sessions).

The strike team Caedus fought is weaker than them collectively. That, and he had a great deal of bother outdueling them. The superior team that Yoda fought couldn't lay a finger on him despite the fact he barely moved a few feet and didn't bother to brandish his lightsaber. Yoda actually trying slightly would more than make up for Caedus' injuries.

Similar situation; clearly distinguishable results.

Yoda, or Sidious for that matter, isn't far above Caedus in the slightest.

I didn't say "far". I'm just saying it isn't debatable that Caedus could outduel either. And your only response to this is to list feats everyone is aware of and hope the argument makes itself.

The most you're getting is that Caedus would give them a great fight. But he would die, every time.

Based on the fact he has swallowed up entire planets, and tore an entire fleet from the monstrous gravity of the mass shadow generator.

That's nice.

Yoda has no defense against drain

He's also immensely powerful.

, neither are his telekinetic feats matching Nihilus; he loses.

Neither are Sidious'. But that doesn't change the fact that both him and Vitiate have been placed above Nihilus by out-of-universe sources. I don't really care about comparing "feats" when the actual room for comparison there is pretty limited. The reality is that due to how Yoda stands against Sidious, it's a given that if he and Nihilus were written under the same author or into a fight, Yoda would probably end up winning.

Avatar image for pharoh_atem
Pharoh_Atem

44471

Forum Posts

10114

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

#28  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

@i_like_swords:

Just pointing out that I'm aware of the lite-trolling running through your posts. I'm just here to ruin your Caedus hype. :)

No Caption Provided

Prove that he's decisively enough ahead of them to back your argument that Caedus getting his ass whooped by a heavily weakened Luke puts him in Yoda's ball pit. I'll wait.

Where should I start?

How about Luke fighting an entire army (and I do mean army) of Yuuzhan Vong Warriors? How about defeating the Ryner Thul when he was amped by the collective power of every single member Dark Nest? How about the fact he was already nearing their level of skill, with only a few years training? Or the fact Canon has listed him as having an unmatched natural aptitude with a blade? Or how about, besting Shimrra Jamaane after going through droves of the best the Yuuzhan Vong had to offer?

Truth of the matter, when not conflicted, Luke was able to handle Palpatine in Dark Empire, in a duel. Whether Palpatine weakened by Force Harmony (per Silver he was, but I have yet to see any concrete evidence of this myself, and it was said nowhere in the comic) or not, is debatable. Regardless, Luke battled Palpatine on a potent Darkside nexus that is Byss so they could honestly even themselves out. Granted, he lost the first time, but I can easily argue that Luke was conflicted and in between both worlds, in a metaphoric tug of war between the light and darkside of the Force.

Don't even get me started on Force power; he casually blows Yoda out of the water in that regard on every level. In every single category.

Luke >>> Palpatine and Yoda. No if, ands, or buts about it.

Based on.. their fight? The one where they were pretty equal up until the end?

My point was based on what is Caedus incapable of giving RotS Palpatine an hard fought matchup?

Because if I can successfully argue that two dudes below Sidious are ahead of Caedus pretty damn noticeably

I don't even believe Vitiate raw power is below Palpatine, but that is another argument, for another day. As for Plagueis being above Caedus, meh.

He's about as close as you can get.

It's a good thing Caedus is as well.

I recall he did so alongside Luke and Jaina while in a battle meld with him. If that's the case then... pretty disappointed in you leaving out context as important as that.

Hmm. I'm not really recalling any Battle Meld, tbh. Plus, Jacen killed some by himself, it was Jaina who wasn't actually confirmed to slay any without her uncles help.

Having said that, nah; beating Yuuzhan Vong with some buddies isn't putting you on Sidious' level and you haven't even tried to make an argument for as much aside from just mentioning the feat.

Umm. I'm pretty sure I did.

Kyp Durron was unable to defeat a single Slayer, and his is easily pushing the lower 8 tier given his feats, accolades and hype. Jacen was able to defeat multiple Slayers leads me to believe that he is capable of taking out several beast that defeated a duelist on Kyp Durron's, years before his prime as Darth Caedus.

Also, chuckled at Katarn being as good as Vader. He's weaker in just about every aspect.

In terms of skill with a blade and overall physical combatant in general? Yes, yes he is. But I bet the only feats you can name for Katarn is the ones he performed with minimal training, and years before his prime. LAWL. His showing vs an amped Desann can match any of Vader's skill feats.

Again, in what way is this feat supposed to be comparable to Yoda's fight with the most powerful Sith to ever exist?

The fact that he was stalemating a Darth Maul level duelist with his skill, physical prowess and Force power severely hindered?

Caedus being pretty close to Jaina with his physical abilities taken down a far notch isn't exactly convincing me of anything outside of the fact that Caedus is a Jaina-tier duelist with much, much beefier physicals.

I find it comical you don't think Jacen's skill wouldn't have taken a hit, given the fact he was missing a fracking arm when he is usually a a two handed duelist, but whatever floats your boat, homie. Lets just hope that shit doesn't sink in the future.

In comparison, Sidious has proven that even when holding back he can embarrass someone of Jaina's calibre

I'm going, to you know, take a shot in the dark here, and suggest that if he didn't have a missing arm, and a hole in his God-forsaken stomach, would have faired much much better.

If he was 100%, he would have gotten a niece and daughter after he got done with Jaina.

(Maul) while he's got help from another master duelist, and that's without abusing his much greater strength and speed, competing predominantly on a plane of technical skill.

Proof Palpatine was holding his physical edge back against the brothers, please.

Considering Yoda has embarrassed better competition with much, much less strain, I'm not seeing the parity.

Yeah, and Yoda wasn't suffering from being near fatal injuries Jedi far greater than himself, Luke Skywalker either. Neither was he ambushed against team that planned for him.

Referring to Plo Koon (accoladed as one of the most powerful Jedi to ever exist, renowned for his lightsaber skill and has feats placing him not too far off of someone like Kenobi or Maul)

LAWL.

Kyle Katarn > Plo Koon. Katarn defeating a Darth Vader level Force user, while hindered in a duel places him above Plo Koon. The dude was killed by canon fodder, tbh.

Depa Billaba (someone good enough to receive extensive praise from Mace Windu for her blade talent)

Valin shits on Depa.

and Saesee Tiin

Sparring with someone for one page doesn't prove shit. Luke has stomped his own son in a training session - yet, Kyp was able to spar with him to a stand-still; does that mean Kyp deserves far more credit than you and every gives him to? Spars =/= actual battles, tbh.

But yeah, Tiin is far superior Mithric and Kolir. That's not saying much, given Tiin was one-shotted by Darth Sidious, though.

The strike team Caedus fought is weaker than them collectively.

Hardly.

That, and he had a great deal of bother outdueling them.

While suffering from injuries that nearly killed him not long before, not doubt. I'm pretty sure broken bones and ruptured insides can cripple a man severely as the novel clearly points out.

Your boat is really starting to sink, my friend.

The superior team that Yoda fought couldn't lay a finger on him despite the fact he barely moved a few feet and didn't bother to brandish his lightsaber. Yoda actually trying slightly would more than make up for Caedus' injuries.

Yet, Yoda had an hard time with someone like Dooku, LAWL. This showing is hardly vindictive of anything, as an healthy Caedus would steam roll them as well.

Similar situation; clearly distinguishable results.

If you say so buddy; I disagree.

I didn't say "far". I'm just saying it isn't debatable that Caedus could outduel either.

We're debating here, aren't we?

And your only response to this is to list feats everyone is aware of and hope the argument makes itself.

And your only response is some dense dick sucking from a stunt coordinator and a fatty who doesn't know shit about Legends canon.

Give ths man a Nobel Prize, tbh.

The most you're getting is that Caedus would give them a great fight. But he would die, every time.

Nah.

That's nice.

Better than what Yoda has done, for sure.

He's also immensely powerful.

Not more-so than an entire planet, that is also packed with powerful Jedi. Or need I remind you what Dorsk 81 was able to do with half a dozen Jedi and some prep when he combined their power?

Neither are Sidious'. But that doesn't change the fact that both him and Vitiate have been placed above Nihilus by out-of-universe sources. I don't really care about comparing "feats" when the actual room for comparison there is pretty limited. The reality is that due to how Yoda stands against Sidious, it's a given that if he and Nihilus were written under the same author or into a fight, Yoda would probably end up winning.

Difference is, Sidious has answers for Nihilus' tricks; Yoda doesn't. A>B>C logic doesn't work here.

Nihilus murks Yoda with a simple whisper. The Dark Reaper was going to do him in; he stands no chance against the Lord of Hunger.

Avatar image for pharoh_atem
Pharoh_Atem

44471

Forum Posts

10114

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

I believe I killed him, tbh. :)

Avatar image for leo-343
Leo-343

30909

Forum Posts

4870

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for pharoh_atem
Pharoh_Atem

44471

Forum Posts

10114

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

#31  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

@leo-343 said:
No Caption Provided

I'm sure 'Swords salt would compliment that popcorn perfectly, tbh.

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for leo-343
Leo-343

30909

Forum Posts

4870

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

@leo-343 said:
No Caption Provided

I'm sure 'Swords salt would compliment that popcorn perfectly, tbh.

I'm not taking sides since I only have superficial knowledge on the EU but...

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@dccomicsrule2011: This may well be my last post, don't have the stamina for this like I used to.

Where should I start?

Preferably by making some kind of tangible, well-explained comparison to Sidious and Yoda instead of spending a paragraph just listing feats off.

How about Luke fighting an entire army (and I do mean army) of Yuuzhan Vong Warriors?

Great feat. How about it?

How about defeating the Ryner Thul when he was amped by the collective power of every single member Dark Nest?

Is this supposed to mean something to someone who hasn't read the feat in question?

How about the fact he was already nearing their level of skill, with only a few years training?

This doesn't substantiate being ">>>" them.

Or the fact Canon has listed him as having an unmatched natural aptitude with a blade?

If you're referring to learning rate, yeah his and Anakin's are probably the best. If you're saying he's the best duelist to ever exist period, I'd say it's arguable but have never seen a source state it as fact.

Or how about, besting Shimrra Jamaane after going through droves of the best the Yuuzhan Vong had to offer?

I repeat, is this supposed to mean something to someone who hasn't read the feat in question?

Truth of the matter, when not conflicted, Luke was able to handle Palpatine in Dark Empire, in a duel. Whether Palpatine weakened byForce Harmony (per Silver he was, but I have yet to see any concrete evidence of this myself, and it was said nowhere in the comic) or not, is debatable. Regardless, Luke battled Palpatine on a potent Darkside nexus that is Byss so they could honestly even themselves out.

Yeah, I haven't read Dark Empire but given the broad range of theories being thrown around regarding what happened and the fact it took 4 years for you chuckleheads to notice that Byss is even a nexus, I'm gonna ask that you just refer to other sources for this debate. ^.^

Granted, he lost the first time, but I can easily argue that Luke was conflicted and in between both worlds, in a metaphoric tug of war between the light and darkside of the Force.

No Caption Provided

Don't even get me started on Force power; he casually blows Yoda out of the water in that regard on every level. In every single category.

Which is interesting, because I recall you were playing around with the idea of Vitiate (as of Ziost) being better than Luke. To do that you also need to acknowledge that Yoda is factually pretty-freaking-close to Vitiate, or ahead of him, due to how he stands next to Sidious.

Luke >>> Palpatine and Yoda. No if, ands, or buts about it.

You're going to need to work harder than that.

based on what is Caedus incapable of giving RotS Palpatine an hard fought matchup?

1. Didn't say he can't give Sidious a hard fight, I've only been saying he can't ever win.

2. Think about what you just said. "Based on what can't Caedus do this?" ... uh, based on what can he? Burden of proof is on you.

I don't even believe Vitiate raw power is below Palpatine, but that is another argument, for another day.

As for Plagueis being above Caedus, meh.

It is, as per canon, as you like to say.

Your concession, however begrudgingly, is accepted my friend.

Hmm. I'm not really recalling any Battle Meld, tbh.

Pfffffft. So nearly done with this disingenuous post dude.

Plus, Jacen killed some by himself, it was Jaina who wasn't actually confirmed to slay any without her uncles help.

So you can remember that Jaina was being pointed out as the weaker of the three by the Vong during that battle, but not that they were in a battle meld the whole time? This is either masterful trolling or an early sign of alzheimers my man.

Kyp Durron was unable to defeat a single Slayer, and his is easily pushing the lower 8 tier given his feats, accolades and hype.

As you yourself have protested, it was two Slayers and they only defeated Kyp because the first one tangled up his lightsaber. Again, you're either being heavily disingenuous with your lines of reasoning or just straight trolling.

Simply saying "Kyp's a tier 8 duelist!" doesn't make it so.

Jacen was able to defeat multiple Slayers leads me to believe that he is capable of taking out several beast that defeated a duelist on Kyp Durron's, years before his prime as Darth Caedus.

Right...

In terms of skill with a blade and overall physical combatant in general? Yes, yes he is. But I bet the only feats you can name for Katarn

And that right there is what I call a non-argument. It's your job to represent Kyle as you're the one making the claim that he is on-par with Vader, not my job to go researching him.

His showing vs an amped Desann can match any of Vader's skill feats.

Doubtful.

The fact that he was stalemating a Darth Maul level duelist with his skill, physical prowess and Force power severely hindered?

His skill wasn't hindered, Caedus is used to fighting with one arm. Physical prowess and Force reserves, sure. But he's already far more powerful than Jaina so him taking a big hit to his physicals only means the fight is going to be much more skill-based. To that end, Caedus showed no clear advantage. Whereas Sidious has already proven his large technical skill advantage over either Maul or Jaina by both holding back on Maul and embarrassing him (with Savage's aid) and due to the quote I posted earlier that seems to have been [intentionally] ignored by you.

Pertaining to whether Sidious is right-handed or left-handed with a lightsaber, he's ambidextrous. He's just that good. Sidious' abilities are beyond anything we've experienced. It took a really long time for Nick (Gillard) to work out Sidious' fighting style, and he has a style that's constantly changing. His style is one in which you'll never get the better of him. It is ambiguous --- he'll fight less than you and draw you in; you're a sucker if you think you're going to better him. Sidious is a master of every weapon and every style."

--Nick Gillard/George Lucas

Caedus isn't competing with Sidious or Yoda in terms of raw dueling skill. It's that simple. Caedus' style is less developed and the Force fuels his mastery of the blade to a lesser extent than either of them.

I find it comical you don't think Jacen's skill wouldn't have taken a hit, given the fact he was missing a fracking arm when he is usually a a two handed duelist

Source for him mostly being a two-handed duelist?

Going to call it a day 1:34am. Will get back to addressing your trolling later on today, maybe.

Avatar image for wardedman7050
WardedMan7050

69

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Didn't George Lucas say that Anakin Skywalker would have become twice as powerful as Sidious? And that Luke Skywalker had the same force potential which he mostly reached in EU.

If Caedus was able to at least somewhat match Luke in Inferno then I'm guessing that puts him above Yoda. Also how was he injured before the fight? It's been a while since I read Inferno.

Avatar image for sxe619
sXe619

555

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Sidious and Caedus.

Avatar image for waking_dreamer
Waking_Dreamer

954

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@wardedman7050: Luke had a barely healed scar from Lumiya's Lightwhip in his last battle.

Cadeus' opening move was a roundhouse kick to Luke's chest which inflamed his scar tissue, while cracking some ribs which the latter carried for the rest of the fight.

Avatar image for wardedman7050
WardedMan7050

69

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Oh ok thanks.

Avatar image for eisenfauste
Eisenfauste

17366

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Revan

False Emperor Malgus

Exar Kun

Naga Sadow > Vader << Yoda

Avatar image for waking_dreamer
Waking_Dreamer

954

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Didn't George Lucas say that Anakin Skywalker would have become twice as powerful as Sidious? And that Luke Skywalker had the same force potential which he mostly reached in EU.

If Caedus was able to at least somewhat match Luke in Inferno then I'm guessing that puts him above Yoda.

You have to consider, previously in the same book, when Caedus was at 100%, and Luke had no trouble breathing from cracked ribs - Luke completely embarrassed Caedus with the Force.

Luke controlled every part of Caedus' body except for his mouth (so he could answer Luke's questions), and constrained him motionlessly into his command chair.

Luke didnt even have to be in the same room, and was casually walking away for several minutes while Caedus was completely force pinned to his command seat - just by Luke thinking it. Caedus admitted as much that it was only Luke's strained decency that was stopping the latter from killing Caedus (such as force twisting his neck with just a thought).

Could Sidious do as such to Yoda? Or even Dooku doing something like that to Obi Wan?

That's the REAL difference in power between Luke and Caedus. Can we really say with both at 100% that Caedus is somewhat on the same level as Luke...?

Avatar image for wardedman7050
WardedMan7050

69

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#40  Edited By WardedMan7050

Waking_Dreamer That's a very good point. Although this might have occurred because he was surprised. I highly doubt he could do it in a fight when Caedus is expecting an attack. It's still a minus on Caedus though.

Caedus was very versatile with the force though. He knew a lot of powers and techniques. For example, he was able to do an illusion against Mara in Sacrifice which won him the fight.

Avatar image for eisenfauste
Eisenfauste

17366

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@wardedman7050:

For example, he was able to do an illusion against Mara in Sacrifice which won him the fight.

Ugh do people even take that fight seriously?.....

Avatar image for wardedman7050
WardedMan7050

69

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Eisenfauste Why wouldn't you take that fight into consideration? It was a serious fight to the death.

Avatar image for eisenfauste
Eisenfauste

17366

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#43  Edited By Eisenfauste

@wardedman7050: Considering Mara is noticeably less skilled, noticeably less fast, noticeably less powerful, noticeably less knowledgeable etc.

It really shouldn't have been much of a fight....

Avatar image for waking_dreamer
Waking_Dreamer

954

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Waking_Dreamer That's a very good point. Although this might have occurred because he was surprised. I highly doubt he could do it in a fight when Caedus is expecting an attack. It's still a minus on Caedus though.

Caedus did say he was caught by surprise, but all the same he also noted how Luke had grabbed in the force (without a single gesture or movement) and hurled him effortlessly five meters into his command chair.

The really point was that now Caedus had been pinned to the chair, he tried to resist Luke's force but was completely helpless throughout the entire instance - while Luke remained to appear casual, never even moving one of his hands to continual overwhelm the now resisting Caedus in the chair.

I cannot see such discrepancy in force powers replicated between say Dooku (filling in for Luke) and Obi Wan (filling in for Caedus)...and Im sure no one here would consider Obi Wan on a similar level to Dooku even on the former's very best day.

Avatar image for shootingnova
ShootingNova

25691

Forum Posts

313

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

lol That was a good debate. But I concur with ILS - Caedus is just out of his depth against the most powerful Sith Lord in history and his rival.

Also, I severely doubt Nihilus would manage his Katarr feat without drawing on the power afforded to him throughout the Ravager (probably by his minions), and he likely can't even react to Yoda.

Avatar image for waking_dreamer
Waking_Dreamer

954

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#46  Edited By Waking_Dreamer

@shootingnova: Was Sidious the most powerful Sith Lord as of ROTS, or is that in reference to some later point in time such as RotJ?

Avatar image for luckystrike
LuckyStrike

719

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Darth Vader, have you not watched Jensarai1

Loading Video...

Avatar image for shootingnova
ShootingNova

25691

Forum Posts

313

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

@waking_dreamer: No, multiple sources have confirmed his supremacy as of RotS alone.

Avatar image for mrhamwallet
MrHamWallet

3194

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Sidious - Is the only one I see taking a majority.

Caedus - Could maybe take 1 out of 10 but I doubt it.

Vitiated - Similar answer to Caedus.

Nihilus - I can't see how he can win due to the difference in speed of the two.

Avatar image for phlox
phlox

326

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Sidious

Vitiate