What's The Most Powerful Type of Reality Warping?

matter manipulation? dimensional manipulation? space-time manipulation?

Plot manipulation, IMO

Probability manipulation or Complete control over time and space.

Toon-Force

Matter-Manipulation isn't true reality warping.

@blue_marvel99: as in Toonforce

In my opinion it goes Omnipotence>Plot manipulation>Toonforce>Reality Warping>Space time manipulation>Matter manipulation.

Omnipotent type.

Plot manipulation and toon force are the same thing. And omnipotence need not necessarily be below them, depending on how you define it.

Omnipotent type

Omnipotence is the best obviously.

Reality Warping has dozens of genres and methods of function, that all or most really have the same effect with different means. For non-Omnipotence, I would argue that all forms of Reality Warping being used together is the best Reality Warping.

Now unto what the OP speaks of.

matter manipulation? dimensional manipulation? space-time manipulation?

Matter Manipulation is literally an alternative to Space Manipulation since in some fictions you can create Matter out of Space (nothing), and is under Space Time manipulation. Dimensional manipulation should arguably be synonymous to Space Time depending on verse, but Dimensional manipulation includes higher spatial dimensions that can vastly surpass and time. IMO, Matter manip. falls under Space Time manip. which falls under Dimensional manipulation.

Dimensional, Space Time, Energy and Mater Manipulation are all PHYSICAL reality warping or SCIENCE BASED REALITY WARPING. Physical Omnipotence is a power MOSTLY specialized by Marvel N.O. characters (N.O. means Nigh Omnipotent) such as Molecule Man and Beyonder.

The problem with Physical Warping is that it is not Magical Warping, so it isn't complete. I've not seen Beyonder or Molecule Man manipulate the afterlife or mystical magical soul forces shit that the likes of Umineko Witches, Endless or God Spawn is used to. Beyonder and Molecule Man are more into the SCIENTIFIC MULTIVERSAL TYPE NIGH OMNIPOTENCE than anything Magical and Mystical, unlike for example, the Endless from Sandman.

Therefore, none of what you suggested can be considered close to being the best versions of Reality Warping. I would argue, there shouldn't be a ONE TRICK PONY best Reality Warping. I think the best Reality Warping is when one utilizes Magical Omnipotence like God Spawn with Scientific Omnipotence like Beyonder and Meta and Magic Omnipotence like Featherine.

All genres of Omnipotence are only just Nigh Omnipotence, since Omnipotence does not have "types" and is already all kinds of Reality Warping.

Conceptual manipulation, plot manipulation and fate manipulation to name a few.

Toon force is rivaled and beaten only by omnipotence

Toon force allows a toon character to do WHATEVER they want.

If I could warp reality, I'd send this thread to the General Discussion forum where it belongs!

there was never a truely omnipotent character in any fiction so Im not sure what do guys above even discuss. Presence, The One above all, comic writers, everyone has some limitations. True omnipotence is purely theoretical.

@comicgirl21: They are omnipotent within their multiverse/story. It's fiction, no need to overthink it.

Plot Manipulation trumps Toon Force, doesn't it?

@pmcinelly784: Probability too.

The only person I remember reading about with plot manipulation is the ghost writer from Danny phantom, and he's really low-tier because he can only manipulate a plot with rhymes, and he's limited to his imagination.

The dude gets defeated because he can't rhyme anything with the word "Orange"

@death2heretics: You're right. Between plot manipulation and probability / luck manipulation, I'd say that either one could be the most powerful. Plot manipulation is super pronounced, you basically control how the future is going turn out, while with probability manipulation you wait for the future to work itself out in your favor. In that respect, I'd say plot manipulation is more powerful. With plot manipulation you could also get rid of probability manipulation.

Omnipotence, obviously. If that doesn't count, imagination manifestation.

Matter manip isn't reality warping, but reality warping can manipulate matter. They overlap, but are not the same. MM is just functional tk (not true tk...though it can be).

Space manip and dimension manip are the same thing. A dimension is a space. Alien Geometry also falls here. These are the lowest, most basic forms of reality warping.

After omnipotence, imagination manifestation would be next. Think of what Thanos did in IW...he literally created a new reality seperate and in opposition to the events that actually happened. Physical illusions also fall here. This is superior to event manipulation because u don't need to rely on fate and time to manifest your reality.

After that, event manipulation would be next. That would be like Ywhach, controlling what will happen...that's fate manip, an subclass of event manip. Fate only determines the future, while event manip determines the past, present and/or future. Plot manip falls here, that's nothing but high tier fate manip.

After that would come abstract powers like probability, causality, natural laws, ect...these are all just a means to achieve what the other powers above achieve on their own.

Time manipulation is very...on the line. Whether it counts at all depends on the situation.

are you talking about the scene where Gamora thought she killed him?

@thelocust619: Plot Manipulation is more powerful than imagination manifestation.

From what I've seen, high tier plot manipulation is on IRL comic-writer levels. They can change the plot of a comic at will. They can strip omnipotence, and break down walls between dimensions and universes at will.

@blue_marvel99: Yea, or when he showed Strange what Titan used to look like. I edited my post btw, physical illusions are only a subclass of imagination manifestation, which is your answer because I'm sure you meant "besides omnipotence".

@pmcinelly784: Not at all. Imagination manifestation, at its best, is a hair shy of omnipotence...you can achieve what any of the other powers can through this one.

"From what I've seen, high tier plot manipulation is on IRL comic-writer levels."

-It's not though. The best u can achieve is overpowering an Author Avatar...which is a character. They usurped a character. Obviously, no character can impact an irl Author, even a live action one. Hate to break it to u...but they're pretending. Like an actor.

"They can change the plot of a comic at will."

-That's event manip. The plot is what will happen. So is fate. It's just a series of events.

"They can strip omnipotence"

-Then it's obviously not true omnipotence.

"and break down walls between dimensions and universes at will."

-This is low tier.

@sungsam: So the most complete form is toon force.

Toon force can take down true omnipotence on panel.

@thelocust619: Imagine manifestation makes what you want become reality correct? That just sounds like low-tier plot manipulation. Characters with the plot manipulation skill can change the present as well as the future, it's a fourth wall-breaking power. You can change anything within the comic, you can influence or outright change the plot of a story. One example of this is the ability to change speech bubbles, or outfitting stories to any extent.

The plot isn't necessarily just 'what will happen' it's everything about a comic. A character with plot manipulation can change a fight between a street leveler and a multiverse buster to make the street leveler easily win. It's not like Yhwach's Future Manip where he sees ever possible future and outfits his actions to bring a specific future happen. It's actually cheating.

On panel, plot manipulation can defeat omnipotence, but then as you say it must not be true omnipotence if it can be taken away or the said omnipotent can be defeated. Then again true omnipotence isn't really a thing in comics (and if it was, plot manipulation would be able to defeat it, contradicting the fact that someone is a true omnipotent)

Lastly, you're right it is pretty low-tier IDK why I said that lol

@pmcinelly784: Everything in ur first paragraph falls under event manipulation. Look at it this way...what is a plot? Because that's what PM manipulates. And a plot is just a predetermined sequence of events. If u had that power in real life...it'd literally be fate/event manip. Fighting a guy u cant beat? If it's ur fate to win...u win anyway.

Imagination manifestation can replicate event manipulation, changing things, creating things, destroying things, physical or metaphysical... The only difference between that and omnipotence are the safeguards that keep omnipotence from being anything short of absolute...in other words, it's absolute imagination manifestation taken to its most extreme efficiency.

The barrier ur hitting is that, yes, some forms of PM can be better than IM in practice simply because u can have different levels of efficiency with any power but omnipotence (which is always max)...just to paint the picture, someone with a lvl 1 IM can be outclassed by lvl 10 PM. However, once u take these abilities to their absolute level....IM can replicate PM, and exceed it.

Here's another way to look at it. Where does a plot come from? The answer is the author's imagination. If u treat an author as a character, the plot is only one aspect of his story. The entire story, including the plot, is his imagination manifested. I should have just opened with this part lol.

As far as omnipotence...that is the pinnacle. If something is above it and able to strip it away (or even contend or make it falter at all), by definition it's not omnipotence...even if someone calls it such. I can call my dog laser vision, he's still a dog lol

It's probably between Toon Force or Plot Manipulation.

While I'm at it, toonforce is usually a conglomerate of powers...which is why it's so hard to discuss. Some don't have control over it, it just happens. If u did have absolute control over all possible applications of toonforce...u'd just get imagination manifestation with a sense of humor.

@thelocust619: I don't think you understand, Plot Manipulation is on the fourth-wall breaking level. Your definition of Event Manipulation falls under the definition of Plot manipulation, plot manipulation how I understand it is on a higher level.

I don't think we really disagree on much except for how each power is defined, because the way I define Plot Manipulation I see it as more powerful than Event Manipulation and you see it Vice Versa. In reality I could totally see them being on the same levels, having no real limits.

From what I've read here, being able to manifest your imagination isn't on the same level as changing a plot. This definition in the link seems to put imagination manifestation on a wayyyyy lower level than what you're trying to sell it as. Do you have any examples that put it on a higher level than the fairy tail dude who can manifest whatever he wants via imaginaiton? I also believe Aureolus Izzard in To Aru Majutsu no Index with a similar power. I think I can't get an accurate grasp on your power because I haven't seen it in it's fullest, do you mind giving examples of a high tier user?

Can you name a true omnipotent by any chance? I don't think there is one in comics, and if the plot of a story has an omnipotent in it, that omnipotence could potentially be taken away.

This is what I imagine when you talk about Imagination Manifestation

bringing things into reality via imagination

Disney buying Star Wars and Fox

@pmcinelly784: It's more interchangable (event/plot), really. I totally agree changing the plot is deeper than just changing a single event...it is changing the underlying forces that determine events, similar to destiny, yet even destiny can be subject to plot. However...these are all just means to determining events. Look up the definition of plot, try to find one that doesnt say "event" in some way (hint: I couldnt find one). The plot isn't the end all, either. The plot wasn't just there. It was created, determined by an even deeper force...one that rhymes with shmishajimashun.

The 4th wall can really just be considered a higher plane. Debatably the highest before the conversation shifts to religion.

I am not using someone else's definition. I'm using the dictionary lol. If u are simply classifying certain powers or aspects in a different area than I am, then idk. I'll have to read that when I get a sec to see ur perspective (chased by Jason rn)

I cannot name any TRUE omnipotent. But i can name many at varying levels of "nigh" tho lol

Ur other post: That's obviously low tier IM. A higher tier would be like the Thanos examples. And even he's not max efficiency

@fetts: lmao true!!!!

Guys Toon Force has probability manipulation luck manipulation plot manipulation and has defeated Omnipotents. Its the most powerful reality warping and also the most powerful power.

Bugs Bunny

Mr. Mxy

The Mask

Squirl Girl

Rocket Racoon

Money

I disagree here.

Maybe most powerful in their respective universes, but perhaps not in crossovers. Apparently, even the Toon Universe has their own nexus beings:

*Quasar #50

I think Ren and Stimpy are around Tom and Jerry level with Toon Force.

Russoforce.

Anything that beats Omnipotence is Omnipotence RENAMED.

IDK why the hell people are highballing their favorite version of Reality Warping like Toon Force to Suggsverse level, claiming it beats Omnipotence. When we're making fun of Suggsverse for that.

When Sugg says Omnipotence can be beaten, it's bullshit. When CV people say Author authority and Toon Force beat Omnipotence, it's totally okay.

Whatever type Lionel Suggs decides is.

But it aint a battle tho

Nothing can beat Omnipotent.If it's beaten then it's not Omnipotent anymore

Plot manipulation >>> space-time manipulation

@jamespacker: what comic is that?

Multiversity