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#1 Edited by geekryan (5097 posts) - - Show Bio

As the title says.

No Caption Provided

Rules

  • Standard Gear
  • Random Encounter (no prep/knowledge)
  • All opponents are in character, but Jean is bloodlusted
  • Victory by KO, death, or incap.
  • Jean/Phoenix is composite across all FOX movies
  • Any 616 character or Pre-52/New-52/Rebirth character
  • Starting distance of 30 feet
  • Battle takes place on an empty street

Who can beat her?

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#2 Posted by StriplingWarrior98 (223 posts) - - Show Bio

Wolverine

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#3 Edited by geekryan (5097 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Edited by y3kthunder (919 posts) - - Show Bio

I say hulk but they're probably weaker that could

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#5 Posted by GeorgeWBush (12500 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe one of the telepaths like Emma or Psylocke if they can keep their shields up and hit her with a psy dagger?? But she was capable of resisting Xavier who could contact billions of minds, so she’s a formidable telepath. I don’t see either of them outright capable of taking her out with telekinesis though Psylocke did beat Magneto so who knows🤷🏽‍♂️

And lol Wolverine would get ragdolled

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#6 Edited by Rajjar (2507 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (7220 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar: he gets obliterated adamantium and all, since the Von Strucker kids can destroy it and their total output is building level, and Jean dwarfs them in power. Physical attacks won't amount to anything with a being that doesn't need a body and whose insides have been replaced by cosmic energy.

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#8 Edited by Rajjar (2507 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans said:

@rajjar: he gets obliterated adamantium and all, since the Von Strucker kids can destroy it and their total output is building level, and Jean dwarfs them in power. Physical attacks won't amount to anything with a being that doesn't need a body and whose insides have been replaced by cosmic energy.

When? Wolvie's taken worse than building level, that's extreme lowballing. I don't know the feat, but I do know attack potency.

And she's not that impervious yet without feats.

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#9 Edited by EmmaFrostXmen (3144 posts) - - Show Bio

Poison Ivy

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#10 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (7220 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar: she has feats of vaporizing her whole body and still being alive enough to say in her own voice she evolved. Before that it was shown twice she was already bonded to the Phoenix when she tried to give the power away and it was directly linked to her life force and she was being absorbed with it, and when she was stabbed and bled energy instead of you know, blood. Not only is Wolverine never getting close, her not needing a body more than implies she doesn't need a head either. The Von Struckers could destroy adamantium through molecular deconstruction. I don't know why you choose to try to use me mentioning the scope of their power in direct comparison with Phoenix as me implying Wolverine would get killed by a building exploding.

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#11 Posted by geekryan (5097 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar: Even if disintegration doesn't work against Wolverine, telepathy will.

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#12 Posted by geekryan (5097 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe one of the telepaths like Emma or Psylocke if they can keep their shields up and hit her with a psy dagger?? But she was capable of resisting Xavier who could contact billions of minds, so she’s a formidable telepath. I don’t see either of them outright capable of taking her out with telekinesis though Psylocke did beat Magneto so who knows🤷🏽‍♂️

And lol Wolverine would get ragdolled

This makes sense!

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#13 Posted by geekryan (5097 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (3144 posts) - - Show Bio

@geekryan: Planetary level mind control that Phoenix can’t resist because it even affected Superman and Wonder Woman

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#15 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (7220 posts) - - Show Bio

@emmafrostxmen: she already resisted and then completely blocked planetary tp with Cerebro turned up higher than normal and then expelled Xavier from her mind with enough tp force to knock him unconscious.

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#16 Posted by Xanman2000 (309 posts) - - Show Bio

Any decent mid to high tier.

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#17 Edited by EmmaFrostXmen (3144 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: Doesn’t matter. Ivy broke through Wonder Womans defenses, and Diana has resisted Martian Manhunters TP. Also she used plants to take over the entire earth, and therefore Jean has no way of resisting planetary mind control via internal plants that were consumed.

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#18 Posted by Iron_Tiger (915 posts) - - Show Bio

Slipknot.

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#19 Edited by TheHercules (963 posts) - - Show Bio

Deathstroke!

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#20 Edited by GeorgeWBush (12500 posts) - - Show Bio

@emmafrostxmen: Would definitely be an unorthodox way of attacking! But she actually has resisted planetary mind control. Xavier states throughout the film that he couldnt control her anymore and he could read her thoughts. And nothing indicates he got weaker from Apocalypse when he was capable of reaching billions of minds

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#21 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (7220 posts) - - Show Bio

@emmafrostxmen: and Jean blocked and knocked Xavier out. He's planetary with Cerebro on lower settings, he turned up higher to he stronger. MMs telepathic prowess amounts to being able to read a lot of minds, he's not on par skill wise with most powerful telepaths in Marvel. Jean has no innards so what plants internally?

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#22 Posted by Nandope (497 posts) - - Show Bio

Ant man or wasp if she can't see them

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#23 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (7220 posts) - - Show Bio

@nandope: what are they going to do? Get small enough to enter her body only to be vaporized by the raging cosmic inferno inside? She doesn't need to see them, she'll sense them. She already showed she doesn't need to see targets to tk them or know they're there before an attack.

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#24 Posted by geekryan (5097 posts) - - Show Bio

@emmafrostxmen: she already resisted and then completely blocked planetary tp with Cerebro turned up higher than normal and then expelled Xavier from her mind with enough tp force to knock him unconscious.

Can you provide the series/issue for this? Because this seems like an outlier or involves heavy context.

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#25 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (9488 posts) - - Show Bio

DP

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#26 Edited by jackiplier (298 posts) - - Show Bio

Physically weakest? Or just weakest in potential? Like, would Lex Luthor be considered weaker than Cyborg or stronger? Or would Batman be considered weaker than Beast Boy or stronger?

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#27 Posted by Oraculi (3881 posts) - - Show Bio

@geekryan said:
@lordofallhumans said:

@emmafrostxmen: she already resisted and then completely blocked planetary tp with Cerebro turned up higher than normal and then expelled Xavier from her mind with enough tp force to knock him unconscious.

Can you provide the series/issue for this? Because this seems like an outlier or involves heavy context.

Lmao it's not a comic series it's the new FOX movie that came out

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#28 Posted by geekryan (5097 posts) - - Show Bio

@oraculi said:
@geekryan said:
@lordofallhumans said:

@emmafrostxmen: she already resisted and then completely blocked planetary tp with Cerebro turned up higher than normal and then expelled Xavier from her mind with enough tp force to knock him unconscious.

Can you provide the series/issue for this? Because this seems like an outlier or involves heavy context.

Lmao it's not a comic series it's the new FOX movie that came out

I quoted the wrong thing lol

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#29 Posted by geekryan (5097 posts) - - Show Bio

@geekryan: Planetary level mind control that Phoenix can’t resist because it even affected Superman and Wonder Woman

Can you provide the series/issue for this? Because this seems like an outlier or involves heavy context.

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#30 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (3144 posts) - - Show Bio

@geekryan: https://www.cbr.com/batman-poison-ivy-power-upgrade-explained/

That’s an article explaining it, and there really isn’t context, Ivy just uses plants to mind control the planet

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#31 Posted by geekryan (5097 posts) - - Show Bio

@geekryan: https://www.cbr.com/batman-poison-ivy-power-upgrade-explained/

That’s an article explaining it, and there really isn’t context, Ivy just uses plants to mind control the planet

Okay yeah, this seems like a very particular and specific case that is unprecedented for Ivy. It isn't really standard for her, it is definitely an outlier (working on a planetary scale), and it involved prep.

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#32 Edited by EmmaFrostXmen (3144 posts) - - Show Bio

@geekryan: No, she did it very quickly. Also in rebirth she’s been portrayed as far more powerful than she was in the past. Taking over the Justice League (Flash, Superman, And Wonder Woman) + the entire DC earth is >>> any of Jeans TP feats. Also Ivy was able to affect mins control resistant aliens while Jean was not

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#33 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (3144 posts) - - Show Bio

@geekryan: Also it literally says “poison ivy power upgrade”, so this is completely precedented because the feat applies to current ivy

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#34 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (7220 posts) - - Show Bio

@emmafrostxmen: the only tp feat of Jean's that matters is blocking augmented planetary tp and violently expelling the intruder into unconsciousness, and hattered another using planetary tp on the astral plane without the Force. Ivy needs more than mind control to prove she can survive her attempt.

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#35 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (3144 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: Jean did that as a defense, in character Phoenix doesn’t TP blitz, and Ivy’s powers are “mind control” via internal plant manipulation, not TP. Jean has no feats that put her resistance above Wonder Woman who Ivy controlled effortlessly along with the rest of the planet

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#36 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (7220 posts) - - Show Bio

@emmafrostxmen: right defending her mind from intrusion which mind control is. What tp blitz? In character as Phoenix she was angry and violent and didn't like people in her head, even people that raised her like a daughter. Jean does not have innards even when in her flesh body per the stabbing scene, so what internal plants? The fact that WW was controlled by something planetary while Jean stomped two on separate occasions at different power levels is proof she has better feats than Diana. It not being tp makes it that it won't work at all considering Jean being filled with cosmic energy internally, that bleeds out instead of blood. Those energy filled lines all over her body are veins filled with cosmic energy, so the Force was one with her from the very beginning.

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#37 Posted by geekryan (5097 posts) - - Show Bio

@geekryan: No, she did it very quickly. Also in rebirth she’s been portrayed as far more powerful than she was in the past. Taking over the Justice League (Flash, Superman, And Wonder Woman) + the entire DC earth is >>> any of Jeans TP feats. Also Ivy was able to affect mins control resistant aliens while Jean was not

I read the arc. It isn't clear how she did it or in how much time. We can't assume much about this.

We do however know a few things:

1) This is the first time she has done something like this, which is why I said "unprecedented". This means it is a severe outlier, unless she gets more planetary feats.

2) She wasn't controlling a cosmic being made out of energy, who also happens to be an extremely powerful telepath.

3) This isn't a standard combat move for her, so there is zero reason to believe she would start the fight with this tactic.

4) The context shows that she had a very particular reason for doing this: to control humanity before they destroy the world.

5) Phoenix was >>>>> Xavier w/ Cerebro, who is planetary. At the very least, she can resist this sort of mind control long enough to just disintegrate Ivy.

6) Jean is significantly faster than Ivy, so she can likely take her out with TP or disintegrate her before Ivy can even act.

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#38 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (3144 posts) - - Show Bio

@geekryan: 1) Jean doesn’t use her speed at all times during a fight

2) Ivy’s mind control is plant based, and Jean has no feats for resisting mind control from another species. As a matter of fact it was shown that Jeans TP cannot affect aliens, which isn’t the same for ivy because she affected Superman effortlessly, and Flash (who’s mind is almost immune to telepathy because of how quick his though process is)

3) ivy very frequently starts fights with mind control, and now she just got a power amp lmao, so now it’s just showing how powerful her mind control is

4) yes but in this case she will only attempt to be controlling Jean, and not all of humanity, I don’t see your point. You said “she had a very particular reason for doing this”, but that doesn’t mean she won’t use her mind control on one person at a time like she has numerous times in the past.

5) Controlling entire planet + Wonder Woman >>> All Of Jeans TP feats. Diana has shown to be able to shrug off an resist planetary telepaths time and time again.

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#39 Posted by geekryan (5097 posts) - - Show Bio

@geekryan: 1) Jean doesn’t use her speed at all times during a fight

2) Ivy’s mind control is plant based, and Jean has no feats for resisting mind control from another species. As a matter of fact it was shown that Jeans TP cannot affect aliens, which isn’t the same for ivy because she affected Superman effortlessly, and Flash (who’s mind is almost immune to telepathy because of how quick his though process is)

3) ivy very frequently starts fights with mind control, and now she just got a power amp lmao, so now it’s just showing how powerful her mind control is

4) yes but in this case she will only attempt to be controlling Jean, and not all of humanity, I don’t see your point. You said “she had a very particular reason for doing this”, but that doesn’t mean she won’t use her mind control on one person at a time like she has numerous times in the past.

5) Controlling entire planet + Wonder Woman >>> All Of Jeans TP feats. Diana has shown to be able to shrug off an resist planetary telepaths time and time again.

1) "Doesn't use her speed".....what kind of laughable statement is that? She reacted faster than QS and she reacted to lightning. That puts her way above any speed feats that Ivy has by a significant margin. At best, she has reacted to bullets, and that isn't even consistent. In terms of combat speed, she's around Batman's level.

2) No. It was shown that Jean's TP can't affect the D'Bari. That doesn't mean her TP couldn't work on any and all aliens. Also, The Flash regularly gets TP'd lol. His TP resistances are quite lacklustre, as are those of Superman and Diana in Rebirth.

3) Show me at least 3 feats of Ivy starting a fight with actual mind control.

4) Mind control is an extremely inconsistent power for Ivy, especially in direct combat and especially against women.

5) Give me feats of Rebirth Diana resisting planetary telepaths on multiple occasions.

I thought you were trolling at first, so I'm shocked that you are serious about this. But here, I'll make a new thread specifically for this match-up and see what other people think.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/dark-phoenix-fox-vs-poison-ivy-dc-2028040/

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#40 Posted by Evil-Incarnate (7229 posts) - - Show Bio

Squirrel Girl

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#41 Posted by Darkthunder (3225 posts) - - Show Bio

Umm what did she do?