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#1 Posted by ParagonNate (3897 posts) - - Show Bio

The Chaos gods get bored with the Warhammer Fantasy world and wander off into the Warp to commence with other evil shenanigans and the Warhammer world is found by Sargeras who immediately plans to invade it. The Burning Legion starts the invasion by infiltrating a number of factions with Dreadlords to sow confusion in their enemies. They also commandeer the old portals that Chaos used at the planets poles as gateways for their forces. Sargeras himself is not allowed to enter the battle. Otherwise the Legion is unrestricted in what they can do. If they've used a tactic before they can use it here.

The endless might of the Burning Legion
The endless might of the Burning Legion
The Warhammer Fantasy world.
The Warhammer Fantasy world.

vs

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#2 Posted by ParagonNate (3897 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by Killerwasp (16182 posts) - - Show Bio

Can the forces close the gates like they did in warhammer?

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#4 Posted by ParagonNate (3897 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by Redzkz (3438 posts) - - Show Bio

@killerwasp: @paragonnate:

I like warhammer, but in this scenario they will be stomped. Simple eredar warlock from the Legion singlehandily glassed the surface of an entire planet with a spell where even all the rock structures/mountains were leveled.

The sky darkened. First to an angry red that invaded the amber skies like a premonition of doom. After a few moments, the color began to shift to an ever-more-nauseating shade of green. Flaring comets screamed from the diseased heavens and struck the earth, sending all the poor creatures scattering in panic. The comets stood up from their craters, towering and terrible, and began to rain down death with ruthless efficiency. A rip opened in the air near the prince, and a flood of horror spilled out: winged demons and alluring succubi wielding greenish-yellow fire and powerful magic, destroying everything in their path. After the dark army had finished its deployment, a gigantic form walked through the rift, and it looked too much like the draenei for the prince not to notice.

. Even the sky was clouded, no longer allowing a clear view of the four moons.

This last being leveled the rock sculptures around him, clearing a space where he could kneel in the dust made from his destruction and draw symbols of dread power with his clawed finger. When he finished, there was a moment of perfect quiet as the slaughter halted and the entire world waited in horrified stillness.

And then, an explosion.

The unleashed energies ripped the world's surface apart, and Anduin found himself crying out and throwing his arms up in terror, but the magics moved right through him without harm. The Legion marched back into the portal, returning to the dark nexus of the demons' dwelling, and in their wake was left... nothing. Nothing alive, at any rate. Even the wondrous rock formations?Anduin would never know if they were natural or carved by the alien life he'd witnessed?were no more. There was only ash and broken matter

Then, mercifully, the vision ended.

Anduin stood before the Prophet once again, and although he fought the impulse and was angry with himself, he wept.

"There is no shame in mourning so much lost," Velen said gently.

"What world was it? When did this happen?" the prince asked through his tears.

"I do not know its name. Its inhabitants did not speak in ways we understand, and none of the mortal races from this world ever walked there. I call it Fanlin'Deskor: Amber Skies over Wondrous Rock. Given that I doubt the Legion records its victims?or even deigns to recall them?we are likely the only ones in the universe who know it existed at all."

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#6 Edited by Killerwasp (16182 posts) - - Show Bio

@redzkz: yet Azeroth remains intact. Despite being invaded twice

I'd like to note it's from the book and short story out of the book Warcraft: paragon - Prophet's Lesson

One of the characters mentioned which could be his feat was kil jaeden due to the description I'd say it was prolly him which I mean if he makes it through I could see the demons uh very well winning

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#7 Edited by Redzkz (3438 posts) - - Show Bio

@killerwasp said:

@redzkz: yet Azeroth remains intact. Despite being invaded twice

Bad writing and Azeroth have powerful characters who can go magic to magic with Legion warlocks. Sargeras was one shotted by mother of Medivh after all. Azeroth have many magical artifacts that can beat Legion magic (Again, Sargeras was badly wounded by such artefact). Azeroth defeated Legion, when Legion used space ships against it.

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#8 Edited by Killerwasp (16182 posts) - - Show Bio

@redzkz: and I don't see why warhammer would lack any of this magical power. The only downside is again they would be too busy fighting one another.

I also wouldn't say bad writing since original canon has them losing to a lose alliance in actual game and the ones before hand was really an elven civil war. Issue is they still had gods to fight them. I'd also like to note sarg never did battle iirc on Azeroth due to him using just his avatars otherwise there is nothing showing on Azeroth who could take his famous planetary cut.

I also added to my previous comment sorry.

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#9 Posted by Redzkz (3438 posts) - - Show Bio

@redzkz: and I don't see why warhammer would lack any of this magical power. The only downside is again they would be too busy fighting one another.

They simply don't have anything that could hurt beings like Sargeras (I mean, they failed to even find something to kill Archaon and they needed a plot device just to destroy part of the planet (In AoS it was revealed that part old world only lost it's surface, Sigmar later used core to make armor for sigmarines and feed souls of former empire and bretonnia citizens to his sigmarines to make them stronger than any champions of mens. This means that Chaos Gods make poor job of destroying the place if so much was left). They have magic, but (aside from Kroak, who is weird) simply do not have anything to stop eredar warlocks. Once at least two enters it will be all over. They will hold a way long enough for chiefs to enter too. I don't believe that Warhammer can stop Legion, before they manage to bring warlocks, lizardmen are skilled future manipulators, and if united they can pull this off, but they always need time to make plans first.

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#10 Posted by Killerwasp (16182 posts) - - Show Bio

@redzkz: I added more to both comments sorry I kinda went over some of the stuff you talked about. Said ereder warlock was again kil jaden

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#11 Posted by Wut (5159 posts) - - Show Bio

@redzkz: Why do they need to destroy the entire planet? O.o if they destroy the surface and everyone on it, job done. Having to destroy it all seems like a waste of effort, more importantly, time since the 8th Edition rule book said it was a cycle anyways. Races pop back up in a new universe, the survivors of the old being gods of the new, chaos comes, chaos eats, new races pop back up, etc. So destroying it all is one of those 'why bother' things. Since we know Khorne can chop a planet in half, it isn't a lack of ability just lack of point.

I also highly doubt that was a random warlock otherwise they would have done it to Azeroth (Warlocks having been on Azeroth before) and gg. But they didn't. Probably because that was Kil. Even then Warcraft never made a bunch of sense in that regard. They have space ships... yet all the fighting takes place on ground for some reason. They can destroy planets... never destroy Azeroth for reasons, the beings of wc have no means of stopping such mass destruction, so they don't.

Because the OP said they invade the Warhammer world as they do Azeroth, that means, they also won't use any world ending spells which is out of character to their invasions of Azeroth.

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#12 Posted by ParagonNate (3897 posts) - - Show Bio

@wut: They don't blow up Azeroth because that would release the Old Gods. That would be bad for whatever was nearby, like Sargeras. Powerful he may be, he is a Titan after all, but Old God>Titan. And Azeroth is a prison for a number of them.

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#13 Edited by Wut (5159 posts) - - Show Bio

@paragonnate: So if they invade using the same methods, then they would also not blow it up, no? Otherwise, if one random warlock can do this then the thread will be short since most of the civilized nations aren't wandering the Chaos Waste looking for a random daemon.

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#14 Posted by JwwProd (19612 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by ParagonNate (3897 posts) - - Show Bio

@wut said:

@paragonnate: So if they invade using the same methods, then they would also not blow it up, no? Otherwise, if one random warlock can do this then the thread will be short since most of the civilized nations aren't wandering the Chaos Waste looking for a random daemon.

I highly doubt that a random Warlock has that kind of power. Even reading the quote, it doesn't look like the Legion spellcaster destroyed the planet, more like replicated Kil'Jaeden's ritual from Warcraft 3 on a larger scale. The one he used to attack Dalaran. Hell, it's likely it was Kil'Jaeden, seeing as he's the only Legion spellcaster we've seen do that type of magic. On top of that the quote simply says 'rock formations', which...isn't at all helpful in determining what it destroyed, beyond 'big boom'. A stalactite is a 'rock formation' and they range from the size of a human finger to massive formations. On top of that, the only thing I've seen powerful enough to level mountains, from the Legion at any rate, is Sargeras' avatar, who did it by speaking, also crushed a ton of dragons with the same sentence so that's cool. So either random Warlocks, or likely Kil'Jaeden, have more power than their masters avatar, which is doubtful, or it's an absurd high showing that doesn't even deserve consideration, or the quote doesn't say what Redzkz thinks it says. I'm betting on the latter to be honest.

On top of all of that, 'planet surface' is absurdly vague in and of itself. That can range from the top few inches or miles deep depending on how you define 'surface of a planet'. On top of that it's being told through Anduin's eyes, he didn't, and couldn't see everything, or understand everything that was going on in the vision, throwing the quote even more into question.

For the sake of this discussion I'll say that the Legion can't do that, even if they could. One side pulling out an absurdly rare ritual and hitting an auto-win button wasn't the intent of this thread.

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#16 Posted by ParagonNate (3897 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwwprod said:

@paragonnate: Did you know Warhammer Fantasy has tanks?

The Empire does, but they have less than 10 IIRC, and they aren't mass producible and prohibitively expensive to boot.

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#17 Posted by Wut (5159 posts) - - Show Bio

@paragonnate: Archimonde is the one who attacked Dalaran.

Valid points.

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#18 Posted by JwwProd (19612 posts) - - Show Bio

@paragonnate said:

@jwwprod said:

@paragonnate: Did you know Warhammer Fantasy has tanks?

The Empire does, but they have less than 10 IIRC, and they aren't mass producible and prohibitively expensive to boot.

Actually they have 12 but to be honest I'm not exactly sure how powerful they are.

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#19 Posted by Wut (5159 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwwprod: They have helicopters, submarines and airships as well. Well, the Dwarfs do.

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#20 Posted by arqe (401 posts) - - Show Bio

@redzkz said:

Sargeras was one shotted by mother of Medivh after all.

Let's not call it that way ...

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#21 Posted by ParagonNate (3897 posts) - - Show Bio

@wut said:

@paragonnate: Archimonde is the one who attacked Dalaran.

Valid points.

Woops, got them mixed up. But yeah, a lone run of the mill Warlock that was not. We've seen what Legion Warlocks can do. And it is not that.

@jwwprod said:

@paragonnate said:

@jwwprod said:

@paragonnate: Did you know Warhammer Fantasy has tanks?

The Empire does, but they have less than 10 IIRC, and they aren't mass producible and prohibitively expensive to boot.

Actually they have 12 but to be honest I'm not exactly sure how powerful they are.

They've got a big canon on the front, and are covered in armor. So that's good. But there aren't enough of them to really tip the scales of a battle. Not when Infernals start falling like rain.

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#22 Posted by arqe (401 posts) - - Show Bio

@wut: They don't blow up Azeroth because that would release the Old Gods. That would be bad for whatever was nearby, like Sargeras. Powerful he may be, he is a Titan after all, but Old God>Titan. And Azeroth is a prison for a number of them.

They don't blow up Azeroth because Sargeras wants the Azeroth herself. Slumbering Titan inside the planet. Get your facts straight please :)

Titan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Old God

Aman'thul literally plucked Y'shjaar like a zit from Azeroth. Azeroth is not a prison for them.

There is literally hundreds if not thousands of Old God's scattered around Great Dark Beyond, sent by Void God's to corrupt planets.

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#23 Edited by Redzkz (3438 posts) - - Show Bio

@wut said:

@paragonnate: So if they invade using the same methods, then they would also not blow it up, no? Otherwise, if one random warlock can do this then the thread will be short since most of the civilized nations aren't wandering the Chaos Waste looking for a random daemon.

I highly doubt that a random Warlock has that kind of power. Even reading the quote, it doesn't look like the Legion spellcaster destroyed the planet, more like replicated Kil'Jaeden's ritual from Warcraft 3 on a larger scale.

It was Archimonde who was in W3.

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#24 Posted by ParagonNate (3897 posts) - - Show Bio

@arqe said:
@paragonnate said:

@wut: They don't blow up Azeroth because that would release the Old Gods. That would be bad for whatever was nearby, like Sargeras. Powerful he may be, he is a Titan after all, but Old God>Titan. And Azeroth is a prison for a number of them.

They don't blow up Azeroth because Sargeras wants the Azeroth herself. Slumbering Titan inside the planet. Get your facts straight please :)

Titan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Old God

Aman'thul literally plucked Y'shjaar like a zit from Azeroth. Azeroth is not a prison for them.

There is literally hundreds if not thousands of Old God's scattered around Great Dark Beyond, sent by Void God's to corrupt planets.

The I remembered his motivation wrong. Drop the tone please :)

A group of Old Gods>any one Titan. Even Sargeras.

And?

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#25 Edited by ParagonNate (3897 posts) - - Show Bio
@redzkz said:
@paragonnate said:
@wut said:

@paragonnate: So if they invade using the same methods, then they would also not blow it up, no? Otherwise, if one random warlock can do this then the thread will be short since most of the civilized nations aren't wandering the Chaos Waste looking for a random daemon.

I highly doubt that a random Warlock has that kind of power. Even reading the quote, it doesn't look like the Legion spellcaster destroyed the planet, more like replicated Kil'Jaeden's ritual from Warcraft 3 on a larger scale.

It was Archimonde who was in W3.

Got them mixed up. Point still stands though.

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#26 Posted by arqe (401 posts) - - Show Bio

@paragonnate: No they are not.

You need to update your Warcraft lore :)

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#27 Posted by ParagonNate (3897 posts) - - Show Bio
@wut said:

@jwwprod: They have helicopters, submarines and airships as well. Well, the Dwarfs do.

Dorf power!

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#28 Posted by Wut (5159 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Edited by ParagonNate (3897 posts) - - Show Bio
@arqe said:

@paragonnate: No they are not.

You need to update your Warcraft lore :)

Your right, I was given bad info.

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#30 Posted by ParagonNate (3897 posts) - - Show Bio

@wut: But who do you think wins? A bunch of soft humans, pansy elves, and hairy midgets?

Or

These charming fellows
These charming fellows

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#31 Posted by Royal_Warrior (3618 posts) - - Show Bio

@killerwasp: Azeroth is the most powerful titan I. The whole universe

Titans first form are pure energy which causes planets to form around them, The titans first jobs were to roam the universe looking for titan souls, first form of a titan, Azeroth was the most powerful they've ever encountered even eclipsing the original pantheon, so it's not Surpising it's still standing because he titans put tons of self defence mechanism on the planet and also the titan itself is sentient

Plus no one wants to destroy a titan soul, the legion wants to use its power for its own, the void lords want to corrupt it and the titans want it go get to its next form

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#32 Posted by Royal_Warrior (3618 posts) - - Show Bio

@paragonnate: titans are still far above olds gods

It's the void lords the titans are scared of not the old gods

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#33 Posted by Wut (5159 posts) - - Show Bio

@paragonnate: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, don't forget, Green Iz BEST.

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#34 Edited by Killerwasp (16182 posts) - - Show Bio

@royal_warrior: you got quotes for that? Iirc everyone got all bent out of shape when sarg one shotted another titan cause he was corrupted

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#35 Edited by ParagonNate (3897 posts) - - Show Bio

@wut: I didn't forget Da Boyz. They'd fight the Legion just like they'd fight everyone else. Chaos doesn't get any special treatment from them so neither would the Legion. Well maybe the Legion would, at least they appreciate green like the Orcs do.

The others are listed because they'd make a concentrated effort against the Legion.

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#36 Posted by Royal_Warrior (3618 posts) - - Show Bio

@killerwasp: yeah I'll post screen shots and there's a few videos up, to be fair t came out of the blue In legion and a lot of the titan mythos was retconned into them being planets themselves

That's why the newest raid, Argus is a courrupted stage 1 titan planet where the legion use the energy of the titan to ressurect so that until Argus is dealt with the Demons have unlimited amounts of lives

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Azeroth_(titan)

We only found out in the newest expansion and in the book the titan Aggramar who was the one who sageras killed was the one who told the pantheon of Azeroth and the powerful soul which lead to amul'anan and the other titans to leave great artifacts, wards and defenders to keep Azeroth good until it comes of age and ends the Void Lords

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#37 Edited by Killerwasp (16182 posts) - - Show Bio
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#38 Posted by SolarWaveAlpha (1009 posts) - - Show Bio

@paragonnate: Cool thread! If I had to guess, the Burning Legion would win. :)

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#39 Posted by ParagonNate (3897 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

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#40 Posted by ParagonNate (3897 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

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#41 Posted by decaf_wizard (12254 posts) - - Show Bio

@arqe said:
@paragonnate said:

@wut: They don't blow up Azeroth because that would release the Old Gods. That would be bad for whatever was nearby, like Sargeras. Powerful he may be, he is a Titan after all, but Old God>Titan. And Azeroth is a prison for a number of them.

They don't blow up Azeroth because Sargeras wants the Azeroth herself. Slumbering Titan inside the planet. Get your facts straight please :)

Titan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Old God

Aman'thul literally plucked Y'shjaar like a zit from Azeroth. Azeroth is not a prison for them.

There is literally hundreds if not thousands of Old God's scattered around Great Dark Beyond, sent by Void God's to corrupt planets.

The I remembered his motivation wrong. Drop the tone please :)

A group of Old Gods>any one Titan. Even Sargeras.

That lore got retconned. Void Lords>>Titans >>>>> Old Gods

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#42 Posted by ParagonNate (3897 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: But could Sargeras take on all of the old gods in Azeroth?

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#43 Edited by decaf_wizard (12254 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: But could Sargeras take on all of the old gods in Azeroth?

Yes. The titans could basically fodder them if they wished. Sargeras even more so

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#44 Posted by Destroyerx5 (13 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm depends...if the warhammer world unites they can win...if they still fight each other then yeah the legion stomps

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#45 Posted by arqe (401 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: But could Sargeras take on all of the old gods in Azeroth?

Titans can crush entire planets in their Palms, Old God's are literal cancer cells spread across Great Dark Beyond by Void Lords.. They are nothing to Titans.

The problem is with Titans vs Old God's, Titan's are so big they cannot engage them directly. It is like you trying to clean your dog's back off ticks. You could crush them one by one but their "corrupted" blood will make your dog sick.

Same thing here, Old God's are ticks to Titans, but they need tweezers ( Titan Keepers ) to clean ( banish ) them.

Also there is no info about Void Lord's and their powers. That is why we can't say Void Lord / God > Titan. Because with that logic Wild God's should be equal to Titans but they are not.

Titan's are agents of Order. Made from Arcane Energy.

Void Lords/Gods are agents of Void/Shadow. Made from Shadow Energy.

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#46 Posted by decaf_wizard (12254 posts) - - Show Bio

@arqe said:
@paragonnate said:

@decaf_wizard: But could Sargeras take on all of the old gods in Azeroth?

Titans can crush entire planets in their Palms, Old God's are literal cancer cells spread across Great Dark Beyond by Void Lords.. They are nothing to Titans.

The problem is with Titans vs Old God's, Titan's are so big they cannot engage them directly. It is like you trying to clean your dog's back off ticks. You could crush them one by one but their "corrupted" blood will make your dog sick.

Same thing here, Old God's are ticks to Titans, but they need tweezers ( Titan Keepers ) to clean ( banish ) them.

Titans can change size. This was made clear during Antorus

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#47 Posted by arqe (401 posts) - - Show Bio

@arqe said:
@paragonnate said:

@decaf_wizard: But could Sargeras take on all of the old gods in Azeroth?

Titans can crush entire planets in their Palms, Old God's are literal cancer cells spread across Great Dark Beyond by Void Lords.. They are nothing to Titans.

The problem is with Titans vs Old God's, Titan's are so big they cannot engage them directly. It is like you trying to clean your dog's back off ticks. You could crush them one by one but their "corrupted" blood will make your dog sick.

Same thing here, Old God's are ticks to Titans, but they need tweezers ( Titan Keepers ) to clean ( banish ) them.

Titans can change size. This was made clear during Antorus

They don't change size, that was their main problem. If they could change size whenever they want, why they create entire races to fight for them ? They use avatars which only can channel some of their power.

And thats it. It all related to gameplay. There is not a single evidence that they could change their size. Not even in the books and chronicles clearly indicates that.

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#48 Edited by decaf_wizard (12254 posts) - - Show Bio

@arqe said:
@decaf_wizard said:
@arqe said:
@paragonnate said:

@decaf_wizard: But could Sargeras take on all of the old gods in Azeroth?

Titans can crush entire planets in their Palms, Old God's are literal cancer cells spread across Great Dark Beyond by Void Lords.. They are nothing to Titans.

The problem is with Titans vs Old God's, Titan's are so big they cannot engage them directly. It is like you trying to clean your dog's back off ticks. You could crush them one by one but their "corrupted" blood will make your dog sick.

Same thing here, Old God's are ticks to Titans, but they need tweezers ( Titan Keepers ) to clean ( banish ) them.

Titans can change size. This was made clear during Antorus

They don't change size, that was their main problem. If they could change size whenever they want, why they create entire races to fight for them ? They use avatars which only can channel some of their power.

And thats it. It all related to gameplay. There is not a single evidence that they could change their size. Not even in the books and chronicles clearly indicates that.

Except for the fact they clearly can. As it was shown multiple times in 7.3.5. The fact that Titans were shown in their forms smaller than planet. The fact that Sargeras was shown planet sized and then shown normal size as well. There is also the fact we fight Aggramar in his small size, when he is confirmed to be not some kind of "shade of his former self" but actually amped with felfire as Sargeras is

There is a damn good reason the Seat of the Pantheon isn't planet sized. Heck Sargeras was even forced down to relatively normal sized (they are still huge) to be imprisoned there.

Titans. Can. Change. Size. There is no other explanation for half the stuff that takes place in the Antorus raid

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#49 Edited by arqe (401 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: Pantheon is dead apart from Sargeras. They have no physical bodies and have little to no power for a Titan.

That is not Aggramar himself, it is his soul corrupted by Sargeras and given a body. He is not in his original Titan body. Aman'thul entered Ra's body when his own physical body got destroyed. So that means Aman'thul can change his size ? No. Titan's never ever changed their size period.

Argus the Unmaker is almost Titan Keeper sized because he is never actually born. He is tortured and corrupted by Sargeras again. He doesn't have any Titan body for himself. Evet Sargeras doesn't have his original Titan body yet he is still massive. And why is that ? Because he needed an Avatar to actually set foot on Azeroth and fight with Aegwynn.

Remember Tomb of Sargeras ? Raid we left behind just week ago ?

His avatar was there for us to beat and he is again almost Titan Keeper size.

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#50 Posted by decaf_wizard (12254 posts) - - Show Bio

@arqe said:

@decaf_wizard: Pantheon is dead apart from Sargeras. They have no physical bodies and have little to no power for a Titan.

That is not Aggramar himself, it is his soul corrupted by Sargeras and given a body. He is not in his original Titan body. Aman'thul entered Ra's body when his own physical body got destroyed. So that means Aman'thul can change his size ? No. Titan's never ever changed their size period.

Argus the Unmaker is almost Titan Keeper sized because he is never actually born. He is tortured and corrupted by Sargeras again. He doesn't have any Titan body for himself. Evet Sargeras doesn't have his original Titan body yet he is still massive. And why is that ? Because he needed an Avatar to actually set foot on Azeroth and fight with Aegwynn.

Remember Tomb of Sargeras ? Raid we left behind just week ago ?

His avatar was there for us to beat and he is again almost Titan Keeper size.

Did you actually even beat Antorus yet? It actually shows the process happening? There is a cinematic for this.

Also, explain how the seat of the Pantheon, the home of the titans, is small. Explain why this is the case if the Titans can't change their size