Warb Null vs Kalatosh Zavros

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#1 Posted by AzureAmaterasu (617 posts) - - Show Bio
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Quick debrief for those who aren't familiar with the characters. Warb Null was a heavily armored brute with a physicality that could be equal to if not above the level of someone like Savage Opress. He was a mindless sith warrior who sported special ancient sith armor and wielded an atypically large lightsaber with a hilt several times the length and width normally seen. He was said to wield the blade with skillful aggression, on top of this he was said to have learned certain 'dark powers' which could refer to force powers.

Zalatosh Kavros was a Jedi Master who fell to the dark side serving under Revan and Malaks Sith empire. What put Zalatosh on the map in terms of power was when Lord Kallig AKA Darth Nox searched for Zavros as well as other 'legends' in order to bolster his own powers by absorbing their respective force ghosts. I suggest this means he was of worthy calibre since when Nox added said ghost as well as other legendary spirits his power grew by several magnitudes; enough that it meant he could face his rival Darth Thanaton.

Kalatosh as of when he was alive and in-the-flesh.

Round 1 - Duel

Round 2 - Force

Round 3 - All out

Location -

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#3 Posted by TheMuser (1888 posts) - - Show Bio

Null stomps zero contest whatsoever. Fight me on this.

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#4 Posted by deactivated-5d1a45e3e76be (313 posts) - - Show Bio

Null. A very underrated fighter.

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#5 Posted by Discipulus (763 posts) - - Show Bio

Warb Null was essentially the Grievous of TOTJ. He probably wins.

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#6 Posted by AzureAmaterasu (617 posts) - - Show Bio

@discipulus I currently don't have much faith in him since he was chopped down fairly quickly, I'm not saying he lacked as a duelist but he comes across as rather clunky. Though I'm open to the idea I don't think there is much data to prove he is of a certain strength, seems subjective to me.

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#7 Posted by TheMuser (1888 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureamaterasu: Think of it this way: Random sith with almost nothing by way of feats that I can think of vs Warb Null who>>>Jedi master who survived Geonosis. Null stomps.

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#8 Posted by TheVivas (19708 posts) - - Show Bio

@themuser said:

@azureamaterasu: Think of it this way: Random sith with almost nothing by way of feats that I can think of vs Warb Null who>>>Jedi master who survived Geonosis. Null stomps.

What? Lol

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#9 Posted by TheMuser (1888 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas: This is from a dueling blog for Ulic I made awhile back, forgive typos it was a work in progress.

In order to properly scale this feat we have to know just how Powerful/Skilled Warb Null is. For those of you whom are unaware Warb Null was a darkside creature whom wears a set of armor that increases his power dramatically. After his defeat at the hands of Ulic Qul-Droma his armor was moved off world and was lost for Thousands of Year. It was eventually discovered by a failed jedi initiate along with a jedi Master Ryelli. This jedi Master had fought in the geonsis arean, being of the twenty whom survived the battle out of two hundred jedi whom went. Its worth noting that after the first hundred jedi had fallen, the remaining jedi (Along with Ryelli) "Fought brilliantly" in the battle in spite of the fact that they were losing.

Jar Jar Binks moved front and center, trembling a bit but keeping his tongue in his mouth, at least. "Excueeze me, yousa honorable Supreme Chancellor, sir," the Gungan began. "Maybe dissen Jedi stoppen the rebel army."

"Thank you, Jar Jar," Palpatine politely replied, and turned to Yoda. "Master Yoda, how many Jedi are available to go to Geonosis?"

"Throughout the galaxy, thousands of Jedi there are," the diminutive Jedi Master replied. "To send on a special mission, only two hundred are available."

"With all due respect to the Jedi Order, that doesn't sound like enough," Bail Organa said.

-Attack of the clones novel

But even with that, even with all of the remaining Jedi fighting brilliantly in the arena, the droids continued to press in, herding them all together in a hopeless position.
Attack of the clones novel.

Soon they were down to just over twenty, all herded together, and in the stadium all about them stood rank after rank of battle droid, weapons leveled.

Attack of the clones novel.

It is worth considering whom actually did survive the area. The weakest person I can think of is padme, However, as described in the novel, She had anakin as a body guard protecting her from the hails of blaster fire. The second weakest person who comes to mind is barris offee, however, she had a master and as we have seen, they have excellent synergy which would make it easier to bat away the blaster fire.

In any case Master ryelli did lose a few fingers in the battle due to a droidika blasting his lightsaber out of his hand.

Master Ryelli had lost those fingers in the Pentranaki arena on geonosis three years ago

- Hammer

A droidika had done that on geonosis, blown the lightsaber from his grasp, he could have had the fingers replaced with cybernetics. But he refused, Once Ryelli had told him it was a reminder, but of what.

- Hammer

For personal reasons master ryelli refused to get cybernetic replacements. It can be argued that this would have hindered his ability to fight combatively, however it is almost certain due to the circumstances of the arena that he would have continued to fight after losing his fingers either in his off hand or in his mutilated primary hand, meaning that he did fight capably with the use of his off hand, and by the time of his fight with Telloti, he fought using his injured hand with no signs that it hindered him.

After this master ryelli requested to become a archaeologist and did not fight in the clones wars. Towards the end of the clone wars however Master ryelli and a failed jedi initiate called Telloti went to the world Nicht Ka where he discovered the long lost armor of Warb Null. We have several quotes describing how Telloti felt wearing the armor.

"As soon as his fingertips touched [Warb Null’s lightsaber] it, a wave of cold air blew over him, through his clothes, his skin, through his very soul. He shivered."

- Hammer

"When Telloti opened his eyes again, the helmet was in his hands, poised over his head, its dark iron hood casting a shadow over his blinking eyes. Inside, secret glyphs glowed with orange light, waiting to brand his cheeks, imbue him with their power."

- Hammer

Master Ryelli stood in the door in his brown robes. His lightsaber hummed in his malformed hand. “Take that off, Telloti,” Ryelli urged, a tremor of something in his voice. Fear? It excited him to think a Jedi Master was afraid of him.

“It’s of the Sith. This place… it’s a tomb of some kind. That armor.. it’s infected with the dark side of the Force.”

The dark side? With this kind of power, he could be a hammer to crush the dark side. What did Ryelli know? He had no insight at all. Why shouldn’t he take this armor for himself? It had power in it. Real power. He could feel the Force like never before. With it, he could be a warrior. He could join the war, cut his way through legions of battle droids and take the Count of Serenno’s head, be the hero the Republic needed.

- Hammer

How obviously much of that last quote is hypebole on the part of the wearer, however, this armor had a massive effect on the wear, it took a young man with little knowledge/power in the force, and with extremely limited skills in dueling, to a point where he could contend with a experienced and highly capable jedi master.

The armor was like a web of conduits. It drew the Force into him. Telloti felt it surging through his blood vessels, contracting muscles, swinging his arms up to defend the downward stroke of Ryelli’s lightsaber almost before Telloti could even think it. He was fast. So fast. And strong. He drove Ryelli back with shuddering blows. the emerald lightsabers flashed and buzzed as they clashed and were batted aside. inadvertently hewing chucks of glowing stone from the walls.

Telloti grinned ecstatically behind his grim metal face. His heart thundered.

Ryelli seemed so small now. Was he himself larger? He felt immense. Ryelli’s blade skimmed his shoulder, sending sparks cascading into the air. He laughed. He hadn’t even felt it. He forced Ryelli out into the corridor, and there locked blades with the Jedi Master. Master. What right did he have to that title? This squinting bookworm? This ditch digger? He looked for greatness in small, broken things, and failed to recognize it when it towered over him.

- Hammer

Let us not downplay this achievement, this is a youngling level force user pushing back a experienced and highly capable jedi master moments after putting on unknown armor. A moment before this jedi master could have likely if not certainly one shot this kid. Now he is being forced backwards by him. This is a incredible rate of improvement.

However, the jedi master does begin to fight back and force telloti down, the text even notes the jedi master as ultimately being superior to the telloti.

The blades squealed and sizzled. Something strange happened. Ryelli forced him back. The Jedi Master with the mangled hand was winning. His expression grew serene. Why was he so calm? It was infuriating, like the face of that girl Enan during the Trials all those years ago, when she’d made a fool of him. Ryelli’s blade angled ever closer, forcing the great two-handed lightsaber of Warb Null down. Telloti’s left knee buckled and clanged against the stone floor.

The archaeologist was stronger. How could that be?

- Hammer

It can be argued that the statement of the jedi master being stronger is purely in reference to his physical strength as he has used his strength to force the youngling onto the ground.

Fortunately for the young telloti the armor was also imbued with all the memorizes of Freedon Nadd and King Adaas. (more on this later) using this knowledge as well as the unique abilities of his lightsaber, he swiftly kills the jedi master.

Stronger... perhaps, but not smarter.

Telloti knew the weapon in his hands. Somehow, he knew it. He had fashioned it. millennia ago. Or rather, the man in his vision, Shas Dovos, the man who became Warb Null, had, inspired by the dark teachings of Freedon Nadd and dread King Adas before him. He knew these things. He had their memories, their wisdom, the cunning of the Sith.

His bare thumb felt along the length of the two-handed hilt to a small toggle, and as Ryelli forced his superior position, bearing down with all his strength,

Telloti triggered it and sidestepped.

The extra-long green blade of the ancient lightsaber retracted into the hilt. In the same instant, the butt sprang open like the maw of a sarlacc, revealing a hidden, secondary emitter. A blade of red energy erupted from it, the ingenious mechanism within realigning and refocusing the power in a nanosecond.

Without the resistance of the green blade,

Ryelli stumbled forward, dangerously off balance. Telloti shifted his grip and flipped the new red blade over, slicing neatly through the nape of Ryelli's neck. The Jedi Master tumbled to the floor.

Telloti straightened, listening to the sound of his own breathing, feeling his heart pounding deep behind the black shell of his breastplate.

- Hammer

This shows one of the advantages of the armor which I will expound upon later.

In any case this fight clearly shows that a even a youngling level force user can be brought up to the level of a capable jedi master (In the golden age of the jedi no less) merely by wearing the armor of Warb Null.

Of course, This is only the beginning. Here I will describe the plethora of reasons why Warb Null was vastly superior to Telloti while wearing the armor.

The first being that the armor Telloti was wearing was incomplete.

There was a crooked molten scar across the neck, and the right arm was missing entirely from the elbow down.

-Hammer

It was missing a good portion of the right arm of the armor. Due to this missing piece the armor had less Dark Side imbued material and therefore was less powerful then the completed set of armor Warb Null possessed.

The Second reason is that the armor had not been wore in four thousand years, this would have likely caused a loss of Dark Side energy from the artifact as described in the Dark Bane trilogy. Particularly because the artifact was damaged and incomplete.

They walked slowly along the length of the display cases, Zannah splitting her attention between Hetton's words and the intriguing array of Sith artifacts. She could still feel faint remnants of dark side energy clinging to them: fading memories of the incredible power they once contained.

Darth Bane: The Rule Of Two.

The Third reason being that Warb Null (Formally shad dovas) used sith alchemy in order to create his armor, and it is noted that only the most powerful dark lords posses a talent for alchemy.

"The most powerful Sith Lords possess a talent for the dark alchemy of the Sith."

―The Dark Side Sourcebook

What makes this even more impressive is the fact that he didn't have any type of teacher that we know of, and learned what he knew of alchemy from a sith tome.

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Taking all of this into consideration Shas Dovas (Warb Null) would have been vastly more capable in the force then a failed jedi initiate could ever have hoped to be.

The Fourth Reason being that Shas Dovas, once he had completed the armor, had a sith spirit appear before him. This spirit bonded Shas to the armor with his life force, doing this was stated to make Shas , now warb Null, "stronger". Becoming a merging of metal and man.

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It is even stated that he is now a creature of the Dark side.

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This would give Warb Null another power boost according to the spirit. The fifth reason, as stated here, is that Warb Null trained with this sith spirit for a unknown amount of time. During which time he doubtless gained the telepathic abilities to prevent a jedi like Oss wilum from thinking and so forth. However, he would also have been training with the aforementioned memorizes of Freedon Nadd and King adaas. This would give him a massive advantage in honing his technical skill in dueling considering he doesn't need to actually learn how to fight, merely apply what he knows.

It is also worth considering that Null is stated to be a master of the darkside.

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Lets recap what we have seen. A skilled and capable PT era jedi master was slain by a youngling level force user wearing armor that was far weaker then the armor Null was wearing. Null was a powerful force user before creating armor, then he created armor that was far superior to the armor telloti was wearing, then he trained in the force with the knowledge of incredibly powerful sith.

I believe the scaling looks something like this. Warb Null>>>>>Telloti~Ryelli.

There are more arguments to be made for Null, but this should do for now.

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#10 Edited by Wolfrazer (16609 posts) - - Show Bio

@themuser: That's nice and all, but you really think that Ryelli would actually want to kill him just because he was wearing the armor? That and I wouldn't say Telloti failed at being a Jedi, he just wasn't chosen as a Padawan.

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#11 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

Null wins.

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#12 Edited by TheMuser (1888 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolfrazer: You could argue that, but considering he was being forced back at first it appears he is in a fight for his life. Also it appears clear that he isn't afraid of making physical contact with his blade considering this:

Ryelli’s blade skimmed his shoulder, sending sparks cascading into the air. He laughed.

It doesn't seem like the master is fighting for a disarm. I don't see any indication the master is trying to reason with him so it seems like this is a serious fight which he must take seriously. He can't afford to fight with a handicap.

Not being chosen as a padawan has implications for skill, particularly when he youngling hasn't been on the front line in the war. If he was a proper padawan we could claim he has real combat experience, it appears he has none. Even if he was skilled in the blade as a youngling, he is still so far behind a jedi master that the disparity is massive. Particularly when we do have a impressive demonstration of skill from the jedi master.

It is worth mentioning there is a lot more I can bring up as feats for Warb Null.

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#13 Edited by Wolfrazer (16609 posts) - - Show Bio

@themuser: I mean he did best basically everyone in the Apprentice Trials bar one other, so we know he's at least mastered Form 1 and better than a great many others who were also. Also Ryelli was trying to reason with him before the fight.

Although honestly, Telloti didn't even best Ryelli via virtue of being better or stronger, but merely tricking the Master with the blade which somehow had a 2nd emitter on the other end.

Which is fine I suppose, though I'm not sure what this has to do with Warb's skill?

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#14 Posted by TheMuser (1888 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolfrazer:

I mean he did best basically everyone in the Apprentice Trials bar one other, so we know he's at least mastered Form 1 and better than a great many others who were also. Also Ryelli was trying to reason with him before the fight.

He is was 2nd best of the younglings in the apprentice trials, sure. still<<<<<Then a jedi master with the accomplishment Ryelli has. He trying to reason pre fight=/= him trying to reason mid fight. At that point Telloti already showed he was a legit threat and again the jedi master needed to take him seriously shown by the fact that he actually tried to cut him as oppose to just disarming him. If he was holding back, it was minimal.

Although honestly, Telloti didn't even best Ryelli via virtue of being better or stronger, but merely tricking the Master with the blade which somehow had a 2nd emitter on the other end.

Sure that is how he killed him, but he has all of the knowledge and tactical ability of Nadd and Adas. A advantage that Warb Null also has and a tactic Null could also use (And far more proficiently) to kill his opponents. Also at the outset of the fight Telloti had the edge and was pushing the master.

I agree with this in part however, you will notice I put Telloti and Ryelli in the same ball park in terms of overall ability in my original post.

I believe the scaling looks something like this. Warb Null>>>>>Telloti~Ryelli. -TheMuser 2019

The good news is that I don't need Telloti to be>Then Ryelli. I need them to be comparable to each other for the scaling to work.

Which is fine I suppose, though I'm not sure what this has to do with Warb's skill?

Your not sure what this has to do with Null's skill overall? or his power level? It is difficult to determine specifically skill (in the technical sense) vs combat proficiency with Null, so I am doing a analysis of the latter. I provide multiple reasons by Null>>>>Telloti. If you want more feats for Null let me know.

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#15 Posted by Wolfrazer (16609 posts) - - Show Bio

@themuser: I mean it's just, Warb would also be better than Telloti and would give a much better fight, just by logic. I'm just not seeing the reasoning of bringing up the instance?

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#16 Posted by BreakOfDawn (2643 posts) - - Show Bio

Zavros literally has no feats at all. Even Lord Kallig had more feats than him and he had less game time.

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#17 Posted by TheVivas (19708 posts) - - Show Bio

@themuser: Woah, was not expecting to be hit with all that lol. I’ll look it over when I’m off work tonight.

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#18 Edited by TheMuser (1888 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolfrazer: Can you elaborate? I am honestly not even sure what you are asking. Warb Null is superior via scaling to both Telloti and Ryelli based on the information I provided. In this fight he is up against a borderline featless person. He stomps. I haven't even used all the arguments for Null.

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#19 Posted by Wolfrazer (16609 posts) - - Show Bio

@themuser: I’m asking why bring up Telloti at all.

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#20 Posted by TheMuser (1888 posts) - - Show Bio

@themuser: I’m asking why bring up Telloti at all.

Because Warb Null is basically a vastly better version of a guy killed a Jedi Master PT era with the feat of surviving geonosis. Therefore he>Scrub Featless sith. Also this entire thing was in response to @thevivas asking for clarification on my previous post stating Null's superiority.

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#21 Posted by CuckedCurry (1047 posts) - - Show Bio

Null died to young Ulic so any hype surrounding him is irrelevant when you remember his death

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#22 Posted by jimcrim (235 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by deactivated-5d1a45e3e76be (313 posts) - - Show Bio

@themuser: it’s good to see someone promoting Null. He’s a very interesting and powerful character.

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#24 Posted by TheMuser (1888 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Posted by TheMuser (1888 posts) - - Show Bio

Null died to young Ulic so any hype surrounding him is irrelevant when you remember his death

A. This isn't even all of the hype for Null, I got more where that came from.

B. That isn't a poor showing for Null, it is a insanely good showing for a young jedi Ulic who is also underrated to heck.