Wally West vs The Runner

Wally is bloodlusted.

Round 1: Race across the universe.

Round 2: Battle to death, KO, or incapacitation. Takes place on empty Earth.

@batmanalways_wins: does Runner have the space gem?

@beware_my_power: No. Unless not having it makes it a stomp.

@batmanalways_wins: pretty sure if he has it, it's a stomp in his favor. If he doesn't, wally does the usual. However, in previous threads, people thought being an elder of the universe makes the Runner immune to speed steal and IMP...

@beware_my_power: He has no showings of such powers to my knowledge. The only feats I am know he has are casually being able to keep up with Surfer in hyperspace. But Wally ran across the universe faster than instant teleportation so I think he wins the race no matter if Runner has the gem or not. But the fight comes down to combat speed unless runner has the gem which gives him the advantage.

@batmanalways_wins: Wally ran across the GALAXY while he was AMPED. He also did it by running on a seperate plane of time or something. Though, you are correct. Runner practically has no travel speed feats to my knowledge. Round two probably goes to Wally more often than not...

Round 1: Wally due to feats

Round 2: Runner

Round 1) Could go either way... I'd say Runner for powers, Wally for feats. By Comicvine rules, I'd give it to Wally.

Round 2) Runner all the way. Even if he were slightly slower than Wally based on feats - a big if - he is freaky powerful where as Wally is essentially without power other than speed, which the Runner has plenty of.

@micah: Why does runner win the fight?

@beware_my_power: I. I haven't read the issue. Even so, he beat a teleporter across the galaxy. Even if he was amped it's insane.

@aftershafter: what? Speedsteal? Punching with the mass of a white dwarf star? Helping bust Anti- monitor's armor? It isn't "the vine's" wally west. It's just how insanely powerful he was, which is where new 52 comes in.

@batmanalways_wins: yes it's insane

This pretty much explains it.

The Runner's strength has never been measured, but he appears to have well over Class 100 strength (able to lift/press over 100 tons). Recent exploits have shown that he is stronger than even Galactus greatest herald, The Silver Surfer.

The Runner's body is enhanced and fueled by The Power Primordial, the eons old energies released at and from the birth of the universe. The Power Primordial grants the Runner a myriad of superhuman abilities far and beyond that of most super humanly powered and even cosmically powered beings. The energies in his body make him immortal so that he cannot die or be killed by any conventional means. The Runner is also immortal in a way that even "regular" immortals cannot match. Death has barred him from her realm, so that even if a force that should normally kill The Runner were set against him, he would still not perish. No form of injury no matter how severe can ever kill him. He is virtually invulnerable, able to shrug off powerful cosmic blasts from The Silver Surfer without injury or pause. His agility and balance are so great that the Silver Surfer was unable to shake him from his board even while Surfer was in total control and exerting maximum effort. His Primordial blasts have proven again, more powerful than even the Silver Surfer's blasts, which are capable of leveling large cities. He doesn't need to eat or breath, The Power Primordial nourishes, sustains and grants him endurance so great that he is totally inexhaustible. He can use the energies in his body for numerous effects from enhancing his already considerable abilities, to re-arranging molecules.

Although Flash was amped, he did do it in about 10 days. The second time around he only did it in a few panels and that was a long time ago. Flash is much faster now and by just two steps he can go FTL. Runner can't die though so Flash loses the second.

@micah: You essentially copied a wiki. That's not helping. Wally hits with the force of a white dwarf star. That's potentially punching a planet to pieces. He can speed steal runner. He can phase through him and stuff. I don't see a way where runner hits him seeing as he doesn't have any combat speed feats anywhere near Wallys level.

@wardemon32: This battle is to KO or incap too. Speed steal could potentially end it.

I know that, and it explains why I think Runner wins in a fight. Hence why I stated this explains it before posting. Runner is effectively invulnerable.......he has never been harmed by anything other than a pissed off Galactus.....even Silver Surfer attacking with everything he has couldn't even faze him, and this was before he was barred from truly dying. Silver Surfer is arguably just as fast as Wally by feats, and Runner is many times faster than Surfer. Even during combat he outpaced Silver Surfer and left him for dead.

Can you show me a scan of Wally using speed steal on a being as powerful as Runner?

How will Wally phase through him? Runners body is not normal, how can you assume Wally will phase through him? Even more so what do you expect Wally to do if he can phase through him??? Once again Runner's body is not normal.

Comic Vine Wally West, spite.

@micah: Jay Garrick speed stole superman like it was nothing. Everyone knows wally is better with the speed force. He could at least screw with him.

The runner laughs at cosmic powered being, just imagine what he can do.

Oh lerd

Runner, both rounds.

@versatile555: Why? Feats that put him as fast as wally?

@mrb1p: But he doesn't have any speed feats I know of that make him half as fast as wally.

The runner jogs across the universe for sport. And he speedblitzed surfer.....in space.

wally still faster

Wally wankers will never, ever admit defeat. West beats abstracts lol......

@hulkage: He is only a little faster than surfer. Wally beat a teleporter across the galaxy. This'll just be easier than that.

No he is much faster than surfer. Wally was amped and that was pure stupidity. It obviously wasn't instant seeing as instant means that ABSOLUTELY no time passes. That means that Wally shouldn't be able to run (a thing that takes time no matter how fast you are) faster than instantly. Its impossible.

runner both...

At the most probably. But as I said Runner is a Primordial Being......Wally won't win with just speed steal.

@micah:

How would speed steal not work? Runner has never shown resistance to something like that.

@hulkage: I don't care if it's physically impossible. He did it. He also tuned every radio on earth in a picosecond. He is certainly faster than runner.

Without the Space Gem I don't see Runner taking this one, he wasn't that impressive. With the Space Gem for him this is a stomp though.

@Cooldes: Why? Give one solitary speed feat that puts Runner on the same level as Wally.

How can you assume Speed Steal is going to work on Runner? If I put Wally in a match against Zeus, The Mask, Doctor Manhattan, or Galactus.........can he Speed Steal from all of these people??? Better yet show me him speed stealing from a being as powerful as the Runner.

@hulkage: @batmanalways_wins:

I think what he did was get to the destination before their molecules finished deforming or whatever you want to call it. Once that happens they are instantly anywhere.

@micah said:

Just because they are powerful beings does not mean that they are not susceptible to certain attacks. There is no reason to believe that speed steal would not work against them. That's like arguing that telepathy wouldn't work on these beings when it can and has. Silver Surfer, PR-Beyonder, and Galactus has been drained before. Since we are talking about high level characters not being able to be drained, Dr. Light was draining COIE Anti-Monitor's energy who is easily on par or above all of the people you've listed.

And I'm sure when Flash drained the planet there were beings on the same level as Runner. The arguement you can make is how long it would take which would probably be a long time with someone like Galactus but it can happen.

But show me Flash speed stealing from someone as powerful as Runner. You can't assume it's going to work on Runner or anyone I listed.............Including one guy who's a cartoon reality warper. Speed Stealing and telepathy aren't the same so that comparison can't be used. I need to see Flash Speed Stealing from someone on par or more powerful than Runner, if not they what's stopping someone from saying he can speed steal from anyone and everything he fights, Street-Level, Cosmic, God or whatever you like.

@micah:

Mask has the toon force - nothing would work on him, probably. But your arguement is that because he is powerful means his speed can't be stolen. The burden of proof is on you. I've literally just showed you how poor your arguement was. Your claim was that it wouldn't work because the beings were to powerful when I've just told you instances where they were drained.

How isn't the speed steal and telepathy analogy alike? Going by your logic he can't do it because he's powerful so wouldn't that be the same case for telepathy?

He doesn't speed steal for every villain he face because the right wouldn't allow that. Who is going to buy a comic where some guy just runs in, drains someone's speed, and runs back out to repeat the cycle?

You haven't shown anything despite what you might think my friend. I'm still waiting for a scan of him speed stealing from someone as powerful as the Runner. Stealing from Superman is one thing, but the Runner is a whole different story. Since your so confident in Flash being able to speed steal from him, just show me him doing it to someone of the Runners caliber and cosmic power/composition.

How isn't the speed steal and telepathy analogy alike? Going by your logic he can't do it because he's powerful so wouldn't that be the same case for telepathy?

Just look at any forum battle involving Martian Manhunter. People automatically assume he can mind rape anyone, which is false. I want you to prove he can do it.

Does Runner have actually combat feats besides picking on Surfer? (which has been done by several people including thor, thanos, black panther, etc.)

@micah:

I'm still waiting for a scan of him speed stealing from someone as powerful as the Runner. Stealing from Superman is one thing, but the Runner is a whole different story. Since your so confident in Flash being able to speed steal from him, just show me him doing it to someone of the Runners caliber and cosmic power/composition.

PROVE that Runner is a different story. You haven't provided anything to say otherwise. Speed steal has nothing to do with how powerful someone is. You have 0 resistance fears for Runner being drained. I'm sure people thought Spectre couldn't be TPd but look at what happened when Martina Manhunter tried it.

Wally speed stole from Dr. Fate. REgardless, it's up to you to prove that power has anything to do with speed steal. It's up to you to provide feats of runner resisting an attack like this. Speed steal is just taking someone's energy. You have no proof as to why this wouldn't happen since Flash has never failed doing this to someone and Runner has no feats to suggest it wouldn't work.

Just look at any forum battle involving Martian Manhunter. People automatically assume he can mind rape anyone, which is false.

False. If the person is shown to be immune then we all know he can't do it. But first we would have to have proof that the person is immune to it. You have 0 proof other than "he's so powerful!".

Does Runner have actually combat feats besides picking on Surfer? (which has been done by several people including thor, thanos, black panther, etc.)

I don't think Speed steal has an upper limit or some limitation to it, all he's doing is taking energy. It's not a giant ritual.

And does runner have combat feats and resistance feats?

@deathandgrim:

I've only seen him fighting Silver Surfer and Silver Surfer doesn't really have fast combat feats. I doubt Flash would beat him in a physical fight but then again, one of the elders did lose to She-Hulk. But he should be able to win from speed stealing.

When she had the Power Gem to my knowledge, don't leave that out.

Still waiting for proof. This guy is living Primordial Energy to an extent, I need proof and I will continue to wait for it. Just show me Flash Speed Stealing from someone like the Runner, aka a cosmic abstract LOL. Not that hard.

The ball is in your court.

@micah:

Still waiting for proof. This guy is living Primordial Energy to an extent, I need proof and I will continue to wait for it. Just show me Flash Speed Stealing from someone like the Runner, aka a cosmic abstract LOL. Not that hard.

The ball is in your court.

Oh you given 0 evidence for Runner resisting speed steal and these is no reason to believe he couldn't do it. Flash has speed stolen from people like Dr. Fate, GLs, Shazam and many others. You have no proof. Admit it. Runner have 0 proof to say that energy draining wouldn't work on him. What matters more is Runner resisting it; not Flash doing it.

You can believe that Galactus can be drained and PR-Beyonder but it's questionable when we say Flash can do it to Runner? Whatever.

When she had the Power Gem to my knowledge, don't leave that out.

She didn't have the power gem.

What do you mean drained??? Tell me when has Flash drained these people? Since we are talking about Flash right now. Yes it is questionable, your assuming Flash can do it, even when as of now you have provided no evidence of him being able to do so.

Runner still has plenty of other factors that I've yet to bring into this fight. I'm just waiting for you to show me a scan of Flash draining a cosmic abstract being................

She didn't have the power gem.

Not what I heard. Unless your not talking about the Champion.