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#1 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3399 posts) - - Show Bio

Teams

@darkraiden

  • Blade
  • Ultimate Nick Fury
  • Batwing (David Zambe)
  • Miles Morales

@tparks:

  • Drake Sinclair
  • Becky Montcrief
  • Jonah Hex
  • Roland Deschain

Rules

Important Rules to these matches as follows.

  • One Zombie Bite will kill your characters off in 30 second time frame, turning them into Zombies. Exceptions are only characters who are Undead, Dead, Robots, or Specifically Immune to Zombies.
  • Ammo and Gear listed must be realistic. This is the end of the world, things are hard to come by. You can have special weapons, but Ammo for all weapons is limited to 100 rounds. Your not using say Punisher and carrying 500 pounds of gear, that be unrealistic.
  • No Vehicles or outside help. Can use Motorcycles, Horses, Ect.
  • Week and a half of debate, then 3 days for votes!

Battle Ground

Top Team is Red. Bottom Team is Blue.

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Its cold, its miserable, its another winter in the world of Zombies. However you cannot survive for long in this hell frozen over without shelter. That is when you com upon this nice little farm in the middle of wilderness. What luck, unfortunately you see another group of survivors that made they're way on the other side. Looks like you must clean this little slice of paradise of pests. To make things more miserable is the large herd of never ending Zombies that are pouring in and over the gates. Hiding inside the house or Barn might keep you at a safe distance, but you still need to clear the place of the enemy.

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Clear the place of enemies and hopefully the never ending tide of Zombies will move on after things are quite like.

Perks

You may pick one perk.

  • The 3 Little Piggies - You obtain 3 Piglets, you can slice open the suckers, and toss them. Wherever they land will cause the Zombies to head that way in general.
  • Rain and Fog - No wonder this place is good for crops. It seems to rain every day here. Add to that the heavy fog that is so thick that you cannot see more than 5 feet in front of you. Good thing the House and Barn are safe from this.
  • Barn Fire - Your team has 1 Barrel of Gasoline, and 10 Molotov Cocktails. You do the math.
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#2 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3399 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3399 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Edited by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw: @darkraiden

I'm taking the piggies!

Before I get into strategy, I'll give the low-down on my team of gun slingers.

Drake Sinclair

Drake Sinclair is what you think of when you think of a Wild West Gunslinger. Fearless, tough, quick, accurate, and never hesitates to kill. What separates him from other cowboys, he carries four guns with very unique qualities. Each gun was forged in hell, never needs to be reloaded and uses no ammunition, and has it's own special powers. Only Drake can touch them too. Anyone who tries to take a gun from Drake, will begin to burn alive just from the touch of his guns.

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The First Gun

The First Gun fires with all the power of a cannon.

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The Second Gun

The Second Gun summons hellfire and spreads the fires of perdition that will ignite any surface it touches.

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The Third Gun

The Third Gun kills with a flesh rotting disease in seconds.

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The Fourth Gun

The Fourth Gun raises the dead of any that has been shot down by the gun.

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Becky Montcrief

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Becky is also a crack shot and tough as nails. What makes her unique is that she carries the Sixth Gun which is the most powerful of all the six guns from Hell. The Sixth gun, like the other 5, never has to be reloaded and uses no ammunition.

The Sixth Gun

The Sixth Gun has several powers. One of the powers is visions that it gives Becky. These visions show the future to Becky. They show her battles before they happen so she knows how to win them. The visions also warn her of danger. She has used this to avoid gun shots, shoot down her opponents without needing to see where they are, and avoid traps. She can see anything your team plans to do, before they even plan on doing it.

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The gun also let's her send visions of herself that she uses as traps or diversions.

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The visions of herself are much more then just plain visions, they are deadly. The visions can shoot energy at their opponent that ignites any surface it touches. There is no limit to how far she can send her visions and it happens instantly. She can use this to spy on your team or slaughter them from a safe distance while never putting herself in harm's way.

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Jonah Hex

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Jonah Hex was sold as a slave to an Apache tribe as a child at a young age. He grew up as an Apache, and learned all of their warrior ways. He's great with a knife, a tomahawk, at tracking, and stealth when he needs to. He also was a decorate soldier in the Civil War. He is an expert marksman with any form of firearm. He is also deadly with his civil war sabre he carried even after he left the army and became a bounty hunter. In his lifetime, he was the deadliest person in DC Universe's Wild West.

Jonah Hex's Tomahawk

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Jonah Hex can throw his Tomahawk faster then his opponent can pick up his gun and fire. He is also dead accurate with it.

Hex's Revolvers and Rifle

Jonah Hex is among the elite when it comes to being a marksman. In all of the issues I've read of him, I've never seen him miss a shot. I admit that I haven't read every issue Hex is been in, but I've read a lot, and he's hit every target he's ever aimed for. He has nothing to fear from zombies or your team because of his incredible shooting.

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Hex shoots down a bounty without even looking at his target.

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He shoots the hat off of his opponent from a long distance as a warning shot. His shot is accurate enough to hit the hat but not kill his target.

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Hex's pin-point accuracy allow him to shoot the ear off of his opponent without killing him.

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Hex guns down six men. All six men already had their gun's drawn, but Hex was fast enough and accurate enough to kill them all.

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This shows off Hex's ability at shooting long range with hi rifle. He takes out an entire Apache prison camp's guards.

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A bear attacks Hex. Hex shoots with both of his guns at the same time. Each shot hits a separate eye of the bear.

Roland Deschain

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Roland is a Gunslinger. He has been trained since birth to be a living weapon. Roland's accuracy is second to none. He can hit his target's with pinpoint accuracy from impossible distances. The only thing more impressive then his aim is his speed. He can fire with lightning fast reflexes that none can escape from.

Accuracy

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Scan 1: Roland is hitting fast accurate shots at "Wolves of the Culla". They are actually just robots dressed like Dr Doom, they are very durable and can only be put down by shooting their antennae and he does this with ease.

Scan 2: Roland shoots down 'Sneetches'. These have the same erratic flight speed and pattern as golden snitches from Harry Potter

Scan 3: Roland hits a Sniper Shot with his revolver from an impossible distance.

Speed

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Scan 1: Roland is so fast, it can't even be seen by the human eye.

Scan 2: Roland is sick with a fever, yet his hands are still faster then "blue summer lightning" (really fast)

Scan 3: This one shows Roland's practiced hands and speed in reloading. He can reload his revolvers in a split second with a trick he does with his hands.

Scan 4: This scan shows that Roland is faster then all of the other Gunslingers in training. Basically, Roland is the fastest of the fastest.

Strategy

USE THIS FOR REFERENCE
USE THIS FOR REFERENCE

Right from the start, Drake Sinclair is going to use the fourth gun (raise dead) to raise the dead in the area I circled yellow. These raised dead will number 100 total, per the limits of the tournament. These raised dead will do several things.

  1. The raised dead all have guns. They will be opening fire on your team as soon as they come out from their starting position.
  2. They will shoot towards the house regardless of when you're team comes out of hiding. This will make a lot of noise and draw every zombie's attention. This will put all the zombies on your team, and leave hardly any for me to worry about.
  3. They will set up a giant shield of bodies that your team will have to move through to get to my team. This will slow them down (if it doesn't outright kill them). Characters moving slow = dead characters when sharpshooters like Jonah Hex and Roland are involved.

By the way, one of my raised dead is named Bill John O'Henry. He is a bit more superior then the rest of the dead Drake can raise. He is much more durable then the rest, and he is very strong.

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While Drake is raising the dead, he will be moving inside the barn to the upper level. He will peak out the upper level door, and use the second gun (hellfire) to burn the house where your team starts, and the areas on the sides of the house. This leaves your team trapped to deal with my raised dead and the zombies in your area. I've got your team pretty well controlled at this point. My team is by far superior when it comes to range, so keeping your team from being mobile will make this easy pickings for Hex and Roland. Here's a scan of what the hellfire will do to your team.

This is why you don't play with Hellfire.
This is why you don't play with Hellfire.

Drake will also be tossing the pigs out in front of the place to make sure all the zombies are being drawn to your position.

Becky is also moving inside of the barn. She is going to use her gun to detect any danger, then find a safe spot to stay while she uses her spirit form to do this to your team.

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These scans show how she can project her image to spread even more fire among your team. She is going to project her image right in the middle of your team and then open fire. To be honest, the match should be over right here. Becky can easily solo your team, but that's not fun. The only reason she didn't kill everyone in those scans, is because she hates Missy Hume (girl in the scans) so much, that she wants to be physically present when Missy Hume dies. You can see from these scans though, that your team's immediate area is very dangerous now. Becky is going to be shooting kill shots and your team will have no way to fire back. Even if she misses (which is unlikely, Becky's an amazing shot) the shots will spread flames to anything it touches leaving your team in a very bad spot.

The most likely scenario now is that your team is dead. If not, they are fleeing from Becky. They will have to flee through Hellfire, Zombies, and raised dead to do this. Hellfire, raised dead, and zombies are small potatoes compared to the sharpshooters I've got posted to take out your team when they try to run from Becky though. I've already provided scans of accuracy for Jonah Hex and Roland. I have more scans, but I'll save them for my next comment. The main thing to note here is that Jonah Hex and Roland have never missed a shot. They might be THE BEST marksman in comics or any other media. Roland never missed a shot in both the novels and comics. I do admit that I haven't read every single issue with Jonah Hex, but I've read a vast majority of them, and he has never missed a shot in any of them. If you can provide a scan of him ever missing, I will consider an argument that he will miss in this match, but until then, I don't see that happening.

One other thing is Drake isn't just going to sit there now that he is done burning your team and raising dead. He is now going to pull out his first gun (cannon) with one hand and his third gun (flesh rotting disease) with the other. The first gun fires with all the power of a cannon. He will be using this to take out any of your characters that come from behind the house you start at. Drake is also a great marksman, but with this gun, it's really not even needed. The spread of damage on this gun is huge. He just has to point in the general direction of his target and it's going to hit the target and anything else within several feet of the target.

Just look what it does to this giant thunderbird that was unharmed by all other gunfire.

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His third gun (flesh rotting disease) is in his other hand. This gun kills it's victims no matter where they are shot. If he manages to shoot even a character like Blade who is durable and has a healing factor with just a glancing blow to his arm, it will rot his flesh away and he will die in seconds.

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Closing

Here's what my team is doing.

Drake

  • Raised 100 dead soldiers to fight for my team.
  • Tosses pigs to draw zombies to your team
  • Spreads hellfire on your team's location
  • Firing upon your team with a gun that shoots with the power of a cannon
  • Firing on your team with a gun that is a one shot instant kill no matter where it hits

Becky

  • Using her gun to predict any danger to my team before it happens
  • Using her gun to send her spirit form to your team to open fire on them
  • Spreading even more fire among your team

Jonah Hex

  • Sniping down your team

Roland

  • Sniping down your team
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#6 Edited by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks:

Street Level Heroes. Teams of 4.

  • Strength in 5 tons Max (Ultimate Cap). This applies to TK and/or Force.
  • Speed Mach 1 Travel Speed Max (Sonic). Combat Speed Max Mach 2 or Bullet Speed (Most Street Levelers).
  • Durability of Body Peak Human (Captain America). Armor can be like High Grade Steel (Knight Armour). Healing Factor Fast (Wolverine). Will be infected by Walkers if Bitten, unlease already Undead or Machine.
  • Only one Character can have any TP/Mental Abilities. They must be within Street Level (60s Jean Grey).
  • Only one Character can Duplicate or Summon. Max out at 100 Summons or Duplicates. They will be infected by Walkers if Bitten.
  • Anybody who can beat Gray Hulk in a straight fight is disallowed. Like AoA Nightcralwer, Fantomex, Midnighter, ect....
  • Morals are still on.
  • Team work is NOT a factor! Everyone is part of a group even if they would never be.

I think an gun that is an instant kill shot no matter where it hits is disqualified by that rule but w/e.

Anyways my team and their gear:

Miles Morales: His suit, Web shooters

Ultimate Nick Fury: His special sunglasses, Invisibility, Intangibility suit, a pack of his exploding gum, a M4 with 100 rounds I guess, 2 Desert Eagles with 100 rounds, 2 9mm Barettas with 100 rounds, M16 with 100 rounds, body armor

Batwing: His suit, and what's inside it I guess, some extra power

Blade: His adamantium Odachi, his motorcycle, his teakwood daggers (idk like 4), 2 adamantium acid etched swords, body armor, Automatic gun with hollow points, semi-automatic gun with hollow points, his sunglasses, his serum

My perk is Barn Fire

Strategy:

While your team is summoning and setting things on fire, my team will counter move your team essentially.

1. The 100 summoned? Blade douses his motorcycle in gasoline, sends it at your team and then throws a molotov Cocktail. This causes a large explosion taking out not only the zombies and the undead soldiers, but it creates a smokescreen for my team to travel through.

2. As he does this, Batwing flies over to your team, raining bombs/incendiaries, shooting and covering for Miles as he turns invisible and sneaks over.

3. Ultimate Nick Fury also uses his invisibility to get the drop on your team, going after Jonah as Miles goes after Roland and Batwing goes after Drake. Blade will jump over to Becky, while again Batwing covers with fire and raining incendiaries and whatnot and then the battle starts.

4. Ultimate Nick Fury will reach Jonah and properly shoot him in the head and then spit his exploding gum on the corpse. He will then help Miles or Batwing with their people (won't be necessary).

5. Miles will get the drop on Roland and hit him with the Venom Sting, KO'ing him, and then will wrap him up in webs and leave him there, and go help with Drake.

6. Batwing will assault Drake with Sonic Weaponry, Flash Grenade rays, Taser whips, and he aforementioned raining incendiaries while easily dodging his assault and will then go off to help with Becky. This is not mentioning any help he might get from miles and Ultimate Nick Fury should they decide to help

7. Blade will jump over, and smell out the real Becky. Her prediction will help her, but Blade dodges bullets with ease and moves super fast and has super accuracy. If need be, Blade will start igniting the Molotov Cocktails (all 9) and the entire gas tank and set the whole place ablaze and explode it to take out Becky, as he'll be fine. As it is likely a prolonged fight, Batwing and Ultimate Nick Fury will be there to help at one point if need be, and both have similar explosives they can hit both of them with.

Feats:

Show Batwing raining bombs, his blasters, his taser and taser whip weapons, his flash grenade ray, and him tanking 2 separate large explosions.

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Shows Ultimate Nick Fury's various tech, invisibility, intangibility, disintegrating sunglasses, exploding gum. Shows his skill in dodging bullets and taking out soldiers and statement that he's the first Captain America. As in Ultimate Captain America.

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And yes, notice the sunglasses are a trump card against anyone on your team that should get close to beating/getting the drop on him. Also useful for eliminating any hordes of people or things he might run into.

Showing Miles's invisibility and stealth that work even on Spider-man and his venom sting that KOs/stuns people AND can be conducted through webs.

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Showing Blade smelling and sensing magic, smelling and tracking a women throughout a city, and more. Becky's stuff won't work on him and he'll go right for her (and then Drake) as he can smell her. After that, showing his speed feats of dodging lasers, blocking bullets, moving so fast people can't see, and more.

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Accuracy feats from Blade, staking people long distance, throwing a knife throw a vampire's teeth from long range before he can bite, plugging guns with knives and bullets, disarming guys, no look kills, and finally his "Blow up the building on himself" plan.

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Rebuttal:

Basically just my team members abilities that counter yours plus some other stuff

A. Becky has shown no range, but that's a NLF, so her range is whatever the farthest she's ever sent her spirit. It shouldn't affect too much, just pointing out.

B. That "special" undead showed....no durability and mild human strength maybe strong human strength. Shouldn't be a problem

C. Illusion is countered by Blade and his senses

D. All of my guys can dodge bullets with ease so one hit one kill means nothing

E. None of your guys have counter to invisibility which 2/4 have on my side

F. No one has a counter to Fury's glasses or intangibility either

G. Or Miles's webs and venom sting

H. Or Batwings.....flight and array of weapons.

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#7 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden:

Street Level Heroes. Teams of 4.

  • Strength in 5 tons Max (Ultimate Cap). This applies to TK and/or Force.
  • Speed Mach 1 Travel Speed Max (Sonic). Combat Speed Max Mach 2 or Bullet Speed (Most Street Levelers).
  • Durability of Body Peak Human (Captain America). Armor can be like High Grade Steel (Knight Armour). Healing Factor Fast (Wolverine). Will be infected by Walkers if Bitten, unlease already Undead or Machine.
  • Only one Character can have any TP/Mental Abilities. They must be within Street Level (60s Jean Grey).
  • Only one Character can Duplicate or Summon. Max out at 100 Summons or Duplicates. They will be infected by Walkers if Bitten.
  • Anybody who can beat Gray Hulk in a straight fight is disallowed. Like AoA Nightcralwer, Fantomex, Midnighter, ect....
  • Morals are still on.
  • Team work is NOT a factor! Everyone is part of a group even if they would never be.

I'll have him not use that gun, but Batwing should really have to lose his armor then. It is much higher then Knight Armor.

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Your Strategy and why it doesn't work:

While your team is summoning and setting things on fire, my team will counter move your team essentially.

1. The 100 summoned? Blade douses his motorcycle in gasoline, sends it at your team and then throws a molotov Cocktail. This causes a large explosion taking out not only the zombies and the undead soldiers, but it creates a smokescreen for my team to travel through.

You haven't explained how he escapes Becky here. Becky is going to have a ghost image of herself instantly appear in the middle of your team shooting magical hell fire at your team. There is no way your team would expect this or be ready for this at all. Anything this fire touches it burns. It also shows that her fire easily decapitates a human. She also hits Missy Hume's arm and it is blown completely off. Missy Hume has a healing factor better then Deadpool's so she grows it back quickly, which is what Becky expected. This was just used to torture Missy Hume until Becky has the chance to be physically present to kill her. Sbe will be shooting kill shots here though. Honestly, your entire team should be dead right here.

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Even if Blade does manage to get away, how is he going to get his motorcycle to my team? He is going to have to drive it straight through a wall of Hell-fire which would burn him alive. He also has the two best marksman in comics that would put bullets in his head as soon as he steps out from behind the house. If he does the absolute impossible, and gets away from the two best marksman, then Drake Sinclair is still there to blow him away with a revolver that shoots with the power and Area of Effect as a cannon. Blade is dead.

2. As he does this, Batwing flies over to your team, raining bombs/incendiaries, shooting and covering for Miles as he turns invisible and sneaks over.

You also need to explain how he gets away from Becky. She is instantly going to be in the middle of your team as a ghost image. See above for what to expect when this happens. Also, you're sending Batwing right into the line of sight of the two best marksmen in comics. Even if he escapes Becky, he is instantly dead as soon as he is in Hex's and Roland's ine of sight. Jonah Hex and Roland just don't miss. They never have, they are not going to start now. Batwing is now dead.

3. Ultimate Nick Fury also uses his invisibility to get the drop on your team, going after Jonah as Miles goes after Roland and Batwing goes after Drake. Blade will jump over to Becky, while again Batwing covers with fire and raining incendiaries and whatnot and then the battle starts.

Same as the other two, both of these characters have no answer for Becky. They have to escape her image before they can even turn invisible. If they somehow manage to do this, Becky will still be able to kill them when they turn invisible. Her gun warns her of any dangers that can come to her team before they happen. She will get a vision of your characters if they turn invisible, and she will send her ghost image to kill them. Here's a few scans of her ghost image warning her of dangers to her and her team.

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4. Ultimate Nick Fury will reach Jonah and properly shoot him in the head and then spit his exploding gum on the corpse. He will then help Miles or Batwing with their people (won't be necessary).

How does Nick Fury move through a wall of hellfire? How is he going to do this? Nick Fury is going to be trapped, dealing with zombies, hellfire, raised dead, and Ghost Becky. He is trapped with no possible way of doing this. If he tries to turn invisible, Becky will get an instant warning and kill him right away.

5. Miles will get the drop on Roland and hit him with the Venom Sting, KO'ing him, and then will wrap him up in webs and leave him there, and go help with Drake.

If Miles goes invisible, then he will be gunned down by Becky. If he stays visible, he will not be getting the drop on Roland. No one just gets the drop on Roland. He is the best marksman. He will easily shoot down Miles before he gets close enough to do anything. He also will have Drake Sinclair shooting a cannon out of a revolver at him.

6. Batwing will assault Drake with Sonic Weaponry, Flash Grenade rays, Taser whips, and he aforementioned raining incendiaries while easily dodging his assault and will then go off to help with Becky. This is not mentioning any help he might get from miles and Ultimate Nick Fury should they decide to help

He has to get close enough to do this. How is he going to avoid Drake's cannon fire?

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Or Jonah Hex and Roland's accuracy?

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Scans 1-3:Roland shoots down several vampire sucker bats very fast, never missing a shot.

Scan 4: Jonah Hex doesn't want to kill his bounty yet, so he shoots her achiles tendon out crippling her.

7. Blade will jump over, and smell out the real Becky. Her prediction will help her, but Blade dodges bullets with ease and moves super fast and has super accuracy. If need be, Blade will start igniting the Molotov Cocktails (all 9) and the entire gas tank and set the whole place ablaze and explode it to take out Becky, as he'll be fine. As it is likely a prolonged fight, Batwing and Ultimate Nick Fury will be there to help at one point if need be, and both have similar explosives they can hit both of them with.

I've already listed above why this won't work. Becky has a warning for danger. Blade will also have to travel in my sharpshooters line of sight to do this and Drake's cannon. Even if he does somehow do this, Becky is an amazing shot and can still shoot blade down. Her gun also has it's own pre-cognition and will guide her hand to make sure she does not miss. See these scans for how her gun guided her hand to shoot several bundles of dynamite out of the air from a long range.

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Your Rebuttal

Rebuttal:

Basically just my team members abilities that counter yours plus some other stuff

A. Becky has shown no range, but that's a NLF, so her range is whatever the farthest she's ever sent her spirit. It shouldn't affect too much, just pointing out.

She has sent her form hundreds of miles away. She has even sent it across time itself. There really is no limit to it. People on this site like to throw out the term "No Limit Fallacy" all the time, but this is one of those instances where there really is no limit. Her gun was made in hell. It is a demonic gun that can do impossible things. This really isn't important though, as the battlefield is not that big to put too much debate into this. The battlefield is obviously within her limits.

B. That "special" undead showed....no durability and mild human strength maybe strong human strength. Shouldn't be a problem

He definitely wouldn't be a problem, but he is surrounded by 99 other undead and a bunch of zombies. All of my undead have guns too, which you haven't taken into account. I have an entire army firing at your team along with a powerful image of Becky, 2 amazing sharpshooters, and a guy that can shoot hellfire and cannon blasts.

C. Illusion is countered by Blade and his senses

That doesn't really matter if the illusion can also shoot him down.

D. All of my guys can dodge bullets with ease so one hit one kill means nothing

I took that gun out for the rest of this debate. He doesn't need that gun anyways when he is firing a cannon.

E. None of your guys have counter to invisibility which 2/4 have on my side

I have an excellent counter with Becky. I explained that quite thoroughly above. None of your team has a counter to Becky.

F. No one has a counter to Fury's glasses or intangibility either

Nick Fury is trapped behind a wall of hellfire with no way to get around it. Even if he does, my sharpshooters bullets are a pretty good counter. There is always Becky too, who could easily solo your other team.

G. Or Miles's webs and venom sting

I've explained this above. The most accurate marksman ever, and Becky. No one on your team can counter her.

H. Or Batwings.....flight and array of weapons.

I already posted the feat of Roland shooting down objects that are identical to Golden Snitches in Harry Potter. He can shoot golf ball sized targets that fly faster then batwing and in a more irregular pattern out of the air. Why would Roland have any problem doing this to Batwing? He is a much bigger, much slower, much more predictable target.

Closing

  • Your team has no counter to Becky.
  • Nick Fury is trapped behind a wall of hellfire and has no counter to Becky or my sharpshooters if he chooses to stay visible and spare himself the wrath of Becky.
  • Miles Morales also can not use his invisibility as it will be an instant death from Becky. If he stays visible, he can not escape my sharpshooters.
  • Blade has no way to drive his motorcycle through hellfire. You even said he would douse it in gasoline. That's probably not the smartest move when he is surrounded by hellfire. He probably blew up his own team trying to do this.
  • Batwing dies easily. He has no way to close the distance on my team to be effective.
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#8 Edited by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks:

1. Blade has the strength to throw the Motorcycle over or start it and let it ride. Either or works. Blade and everyone else have blinding, bullet dodging speed. Becky hasn't shown to to hit people with said speed before. They'll easily dance around her.

2. He flies....at supersonic speeds. She's again never shown any speed on that level. At all nor has she shown the ability to hurt him while in his armor. Prove she sees invisible people. Then she has to hit people like Miles and Ultimate Nick Fury that dodge bullets with ease and for breakfast. Something SHE'S NEVER SHOWN TO DO. Also Ultimate Niick Fury has intangibility.

3. He has intangibility and super human speed and agility.

4. See 3

5. See 2, Miles has far greater agility then she's ever shown to deal with and has more durability than she can hurt.

6. He can tank it....or fly at supersonic speeds

7. Blade tanks building destruction and bullets with ease. He can simply jump through the hail of bullets and come out fine. He does have an excellent healing factor. And shooting slow falling dynamite isn't impressive. At all.

Blade strength:

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He takes on a vampire (enhanced) Spidey while holding back, splits guys in half, picks up giant demons, decapitates superhuman vampires, rips vampires heads off with one hand, throws knives with enough strength to knockback a Vampire who overpowered spider-man, burrows to the surface from an underground cave, and kicks in a metal door, bending it. And below he breaks a vamp's back, paralyzing him.

Back break w/healing factor/durability:

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tanking explosions, blasts, being hit through walls, large falls from tall heights, being impaled by Dracula and healing very soon while weakened IIRC

Miles's agility and dodging:

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dodging bullets, war machine assaults, lightning from Electro, Spidey's web, some rings, and yes, he also has a danger sense aka Spidey Sense.

His durability:

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Tanking explosions, point blank even, his from Scorpion, Hits from Batroc the Leaper who shatters concrete with his legs, and being slammed by giant woman, only being stunned.

So nothing's even oneshotting him if it DOES hit him

Batwing's durability and other things:

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Him fighting lightweaver, tanking energy blasts, his suit is bulletproof, and he can tank explosions (some more) and he catches a jet and redirects a plane mid air.

So he can outrun and tank everything you got.

Ultimate nick I already showed he had intangibility so....yeah.

So still

A. The rest of your guys have no counter to invisibility. Becky can only help one guy.

B. Can't hurt Batwing before he ends/disorientates you, as flash grenades do.

C. Can't hit/hurt Miles with his agility and durability and invisibility

D. Can't hurt Blade with his durability/Healing Factor

E. Can't hit Intangible, bullet dodging Ultimate Nick Fury who's also invisible.

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#9 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden:

Your Claims

1. Blade has the strength to throw the Motorcycle over or start it and let it ride. Either or works. Blade and everyone else have blinding, bullet dodging speed. Becky hasn't shown to to hit people with said speed before. They'll easily dance around her.

If Blade throws a motorcycle soaked in gasoline or let it ride through fire that's surrounding your team that it is going to blow up and kill your team. It's not going to even make it anywhere near my team to do anything. The flames are going to be pretty tall. The strength limit in this tournament is 5 tons. His motorcycle is going to weigh too much for him to clear the flames.

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2. He flies....at supersonic speeds. She's again never shown any speed on that level. At all nor has she shown the ability to hurt him while in his armor. Prove she sees invisible people. Then she has to hit people like Miles and Ultimate Nick Fury that dodge bullets with ease and for breakfast. Something SHE'S NEVER SHOWN TO DO. Also Ultimate Niick Fury has intangibility.

The guidelines limit travel speed to mach 1, so he can't fly at supersonic speeds. He is not going to be moving too fast at all for Roland. Also, the Sixth Gun guides Becky's hand. The gun itself is a precog, so it knows where it's target will be and aims for Becky when she needs it too. Here's a kid who has never touched a gun before who is able to fire six shots to shoot down four targets with the gun before they can fire back. The gun burns him alive in the process, but it shows how the gun guides the hand of someone shooting. The gun will not burn Becky because she is bound to it.

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Or here she doesn't even need to look at her target to make her shot. The gun told her where to shoot and she hits her target without even looking.

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3. He has intangibility and super human speed and agility.

Intangibility is way above durability limits for this tournament. If bullets pass through him and this is allowed, then I admit your team wins because there is nothing my team can do. I don't think @indiecomicsftw is allowing characters that have bullets not harm them though. The durability limit is Captain America.

4. See 3

I already explained above about how the Sixth Gun guides Becky's hand.

5. See 2, Miles has far greater agility then she's ever shown to deal with and has more durability than she can hurt.

Again, durability limits is Captain America. Also, why wouldn't bullets from a super powered demon gun hurt him?

6. He can tank it....or fly at supersonic speeds

No and no. Those are both above the limits. Also, he can't tank head shots or cannon fire.

7. Blade tanks building destruction and bullets with ease. He can simply jump through the hail of bullets and come out fine. He does have an excellent healing factor. And shooting slow falling dynamite isn't impressive. At all.

Again, the durability limit is peak human. Peak humans can not tank buildings and bullets. This is above the limits. How is the dynamite impressive? Did you see the range on those shots? The dynamite was well out of the range of any shots she will need to take in this. She can just project her image right next to her target and fire from point blank. Also, her gun can just take control and make sure she hits her target. It doesn't matter where they are, the gun will just look into the future and make sure it's aiming where your characters will try to dodge to.

A. The rest of your guys have no counter to invisibility. Becky can only help one guy.

B. Can't hurt Batwing before he ends/disorientates you, as flash grenades do.

C. Can't hit/hurt Miles with his agility and durability and invisibility

D. Can't hurt Blade with his durability/Healing Factor

E. Can't hit Intangible, bullet dodging Ultimate Nick Fury who's also invisible.

All of these claims require your team to be over the limits of the tournament with the descriptions you gave. I've explained why already. You have characters who you claim are unable to be hurt because of their durability, armor, or speed being over the limits. You also use intangibility which is way above durability limits here. You could put him against Superman if he can become intangible and he won't be hurt. I've also already shown how my team easily counters invisibility with Becky. I don't know why you think she can only do it to one person too. She has to project her image, shoot a character, project her image, shoot a character, rinse, and repeat. I have more then just Becky on my team too. You're talking like it's going to be easy to dodge bullets from the two best marksman in comics.

  • Strength in 5 tons Max (Ultimate Cap). This applies to TK and/or Force.
  • Speed Mach 1 Travel Speed Max (Sonic). Combat Speed Max Mach 2 or Bullet Speed (Most Street Levelers).
  • Durability of Body Peak Human (Captain America). Armor can be like High Grade Steel (Knight Armour). Healing Factor Fast (Wolverine). Will be infected by Walkers if Bitten, unlease already Undead or Machine.
  • Only one Character can have any TP/Mental Abilities. They must be within Street Level (60s Jean Grey).
  • Only one Character can Duplicate or Summon. Max out at 100 Summons or Duplicates. They will be infected by Walkers if Bitten.
  • Anybody who can beat Gray Hulk in a straight fight is disallowed. Like AoA Nightcralwer, Fantomex, Midnighter, ect....
  • Morals are still on.
  • Team work is NOT a factor! Everyone is part of a group even if they would never be.

You claimed supersonic speed feats in this post. You claimed that pretty much your entire team is well above peak human in durability. I'm alright with you using those characters, but they should be kept within the limits. I wouldn't have picked characters for my team that use guns if we were allowed to have characters that are not even hurt by guns.

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#10 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3399 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: Nick Fury is aloowed as he can only go Intagible for ten seconds and then that is it. His intangibility power breaks the bank.

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#11 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: Nick Fury is aloowed as he can only go Intagible for ten seconds and then that is it. His intangibility power breaks the bank.

Cool. I never read the ultimates. From what it sounded like I thought he basically had Kitty Pride powers.

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#12 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3399 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

@indiecomicsftw said:

@tparks: Nick Fury is aloowed as he can only go Intagible for ten seconds and then that is it. His intangibility power breaks the bank.

Cool. I never read the ultimates. From what it sounded like I thought he basically had Kitty Pride powers.

10 seconds and one time deal.

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#13 Edited by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks:

1. Already showed the explosion won't kill my team, and the gas doesn't explode that fast. He can jump and throw it or let it ride, and then throw a molotov on it. Not sure why you're saying it would explode early, can you explain it to me?

2. He flies at mach 1 w/e. The point is the gun has precog and hits regular humans. Never those who dodge bullets for a living. Just show it hitting someone who has superspeed at all and has bullet dodging feats. You've only shown the gun hitting slow people who don't move fast.

5. I have feats for Cap that shows him surviving huge explosions as well, not sure why you're saying that. And Cap's armor/suit is....bullet proof and impact resistant. learn about him before you use him to "prove" limits.

6. Cap can tank and dodge both, so you're wrong.

7. Healing Factor is Wolverine for limits. This is far below Wolverine's HF that survives nukes like nothing. Try again.

Again, learn about Caps's durability, shang chi's durability, Iron Fist's durability. they're all peak human and tank explosions and bullets like nothing. If you'd like feats I could probably find/provide some.

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#14 Edited by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden:

1. Already showed the explosion won't kill my team, and the gas doesn't explode that fast. He can jump and throw it or let it ride, and then throw a molotov on it. Not sure why you're saying it would explode early, can you explain it to me?

Have you ever put a lit match to gasoline? It burns instantly.

2. He flies at mach 1 w/e. The point is the gun has precog and hits regular humans. Never those who dodge bullets for a living. Just show it hitting someone who has superspeed at all and has bullet dodging feats. You've only shown the gun hitting slow people who don't move fast.

Mach 1 is fine. When you wrote super sonic earlier, I assumed you're talking past the speed of sound which would be above mach 1 because that's what super sonic is. You're also thinking of the gun like it is a person with eyes, hands, reflexes, etc... The gun doesn't care how fast something is moving, because the gun can see into the future and knows where your characters will be and where it needs to shoot. Here's scans of Becky's dying father using the gun. He is making long range shots through a wall. He has no vision of the people he is shooting because the gun knows where to shoot. This also shows why Becky can shoot your invisible characters. She doesn't need to see her targets to shoot them with the Sixth Gun.

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5. I have feats for Cap that shows him surviving huge explosions as well, not sure why you're saying that. And Cap's armor/suit is....bullet proof and impact resistant. learn about him before you use him to "prove" limits.

Sure, Cap's willpower allows him to shrug off non-lethal shots. Cap is not going to survive headshots or shots to the heart. That is the limit. Hex and Roland are incredibly accurate, they will have no problem with that. I already showed why Becky won't and Drake is shooting a cannon that doesn't need to be very accurate, even though he is. I also never brought up Cap's armor/suit because I'm talking about his physicals, not his equipment. The limits are Cap's body for body durability and knight armor for armor. I know plenty about Cap and I know he can't survive gun shots. Did you ever read Civil War? He died from them.

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6. Cap can tank and dodge both, so you're wrong.

See above for what happens when Cap tanks bullets. He can't tank lethally placed shots.

7. Healing Factor is Wolverine for limits. This is far below Wolverine's HF that survives nukes like nothing. Try again.

I have no problem with the healing factor and never called it to question. Not sure why you brought this up.

Again, learn about Caps's durability, shang chi's durability, Iron Fist's durability. they're all peak human and tank explosions and bullets like nothing. If you'd like feats I could probably find/provide some.

I know plenty about all of that. I showed the only feat that really matters, Cap dying from a bullet. My team is very skilled at killing with them.

I'm ready for voting if you are. I have a feeling this is going to turn into a broken record debate pretty soon unless you have something new to add. Thanks for the match, it was fun!

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#15 Edited by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks:

1. The motorcycle won't touch fire till it's on the other side....not sure why you brought up the instant ignition.

2. Ok. I'll. Say. It. Slowly. These. People. Dodge. Bullets. All. The. Time. She. Has. Not. Shown. To. Hit. People. Who. Dodge. Bullets. With. Ease.

Is that clear? Whether the gun is all future and magicky or not, it can't hit a person who can simply dodge the bullet.

5. Hmm...

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Well there's the suit's impact resistance and bulletproofness and there's Taskmaster tanking bullets like nothing and he keeps going. None of that is above Peak Human.

7. You brought up durability for Blade when its his HF. Simple as

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#16 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden:

1. The motorcycle won't touch fire till it's on the other side....not sure why you brought up the instant ignition.

Because Blade is listed as a 1 tonner. I'll give him more then that though as Marvel's always puts their characters too low. I'd give him about 3-5 tons. 3-5 tons is not enough to clear flames that are 10-12 feet tall and spread out across 50 feet. Your entire starting area is surrounded by flames, and your first thought was to pull out the explosives? I also brought it up because you claimed gas doesn't explode that fast, not me, when it's just common sense that it does instantly and your team is surrounded by fire. "1. Already showed the explosion won't kill my team, and the gas doesn't explode that fast. He can jump and throw it or let it ride, and then throw a molotov on it. Not sure why you're saying it would explode early, can you explain it to me?"

2. Ok. I'll. Say. It. Slowly. These. People. Dodge. Bullets. All. The. Time. She. Has. Not. Shown. To. Hit. People. Who. Dodge. Bullets. With. Ease.

I've made this very clear. I could keep repeating why being athletic is not enough to dodge a precog, but this it turning into a broken record.

5. Hmm...

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Well there's the suit's impact resistance and bulletproofness and there's Taskmaster tanking bullets like nothing and he keeps going. None of that is above Peak Human.

You're showing feats of Cap's armor. Cap's armor is not part of the limits, it's his body alone. When Cap's body was shot, he died. It's one of the most known events to happen in comics in the past 10 years. If your team takes a kill shot, then they're dead, or they're above the limits. My team is very good at delivering kill shots.

7. You brought up durability for Blade when its his HF. Simple as

I never brought up Blade's healing factor, as I don't see that being too much of a factor when he is turned into swiss cheese trying to run through an army of zombies and the dead Drake raised that all have guns and area all focused on your team while the two best marksman in comics are shooting at him. All Blade has to do is make a wrong move, and get a scratch from a zombie and he's done.

Ready for voting?

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#17 Edited by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio
@tparks said:

@darkraiden:

Your Claims


7. Blade tanks building destruction and bullets with ease. He can simply jump through the hail of bullets and come out fine. He does have an excellent healing factor. And shooting slow falling dynamite isn't impressive. At all.

Again, the durability limit is peak human. Peak humans can not tank buildings and bullets. This is above the limits. How is the dynamite impressive? Did you see the range on those shots? The dynamite was well out of the range of any shots she will need to take in this. She can just project her image right next to her target and fire from point blank. Also, her gun can just take control and make sure she hits her target. It doesn't matter where they are, the gun will just look into the future and make sure it's aiming where your characters will try to dodge to.

You said that regarding Blade's HF, I was clearing that up. Well you mentioned Durability and I referred to the fact that it's his HF.

In regards to 1, here's what I said:

1. The 100 summoned? Blade douses his motorcycle in gasoline, sends it at your team and then throws a molotov Cocktail. This causes a large explosion taking out not only the zombies and the undead soldiers, but it creates a smokescreen for my team to travel through.

The slow burning gasoline was my mistake I was talking about the substance in the molotov cocktail (as in it'd have time to hit and explode).

Also, concerning 5, I've shown other peak humans (Taskmaster) tanking bullets withe ease. I showed bullets bouncing off of Batwing, I've shown Ultimate Nick Fury and Miles and Blade blocking and dodging many bullets and Blade's HF allows him to come back from even a "kill shot".

Also......as you showed, the armor can be up to "High grade steel"

And after doing some research (not a bullet/gun buff so these forums/yahoo is best I can find):

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080710215041AABaBPs

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110613155605AA11Sr4

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130813201909AAklMag

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_a_bullet_go_through_steel

To some up what people are saying as general consensus:

"Most bullets, however, are not strong enough to pierce steel."

"If you have a harder high impact steel such as an AR400 or AR500 it'd be hard pressed to go through 1/2"" And that's for a .50 cal

"Bullets are not great for shooting thru hardened steel armor."

"If the steel is hardened properly, it will stop most bullets"

"Generally 1" of "hardended heat treated steel- "armour" in other words) will stop anything you can fire from the shoulder,"

So bulletproof is within limits.

And again, there's athletic, and then there's blocking bullets with chains, dodging lasers, dodging machine gun fire etc.

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I'll post them again to drive the point home. My people, they dodge machine gun fire (much faster than your old school handguns), they dodge multiple machine gun fire, disappear from sight, dodge lightning and dodge webs that tag bullet dodgers like Wolverine and the like with ease. And Batwing/Blade/Ultimate Nick can tank bullets/be intangible. Those "precog" bullets do nothing.

And votes? Sure w/e.

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#18 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: One quick thing about your last post and steel armor. A knight's armor was only 2-4mm thick. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_thick_was_a_knight's_armor In all of the "proof" you found, the steel was at it's smallest a half an inch, in one of your examples the steel was 20 feet thick! One of your examples even says it takes 2 inches of steel to stop a bullet. That seems a little much to me, but a knight's armor is less then 0.1" thick. That's thinner then a baking tray for cooking. If it was any thicker, it would be too heavy for knights to really be effective while wearing. That is more then 5 times thinner then the thinnest example you are using and 20 times thinner then the example you provided says it needs to be to stop bullets.. I used to be a sheet metal worker and have worked a lot with welders. I can penetrate steel that thin with nothing but hand tools very easily. A bullet will have no problem. We're using a knight's armor, not a giant chunk of steel. Your research you provided has proven that the armor in the limits of this tournament will not top bullets.

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#19 Posted by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

@darkraiden: One quick thing about your last post and steel armor. A knight's armor was only 2-4mm thick. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_thick_was_a_knight's_armor In all of the "proof" you found, the steel was at it's smallest a half an inch, in one of your examples the steel was 20 feet thick! One of your examples even says it takes 2 inches of steel to stop a bullet. That seems a little much to me, but a knight's armor is less then 0.1" thick. That's thinner then a baking tray for cooking. If it was any thicker, it would be too heavy for knights to really be effective while wearing. That is more then 5 times thinner then the thinnest example you are using and 20 times thinner then the example you provided says it needs to be to stop bullets.. I used to be a sheet metal worker and have worked a lot with welders. I can penetrate steel that thin with nothing but hand tools very easily. A bullet will have no problem. We're using a knight's armor, not a giant chunk of steel. Your research you provided has proven that the armor in the limits of this tournament will not top bullets.

Indiecomics never specifies how much armor, he just says high grade steel and knight's armor (two things that conflict tbh) so I'm taking the high grade steel and saying that it clearly allows bulletproof armor. If not even Cap America would be disqualified from this thing and no one would argue that.

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#20 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: True, I would not argue Cap being in this. My only point is that bullets put Cap down enough so that he died, and Cap is the limit. I actually think your characters meet that limit, it's just some of your claims are higher then I think the characters actually are in durability. If my characters shoot kill shots with normal bullets, your characters are going to die. This is even more so with the demonic guns that fire hellfire, cannon blasts, and magical energy.

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#21 Edited by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

@darkraiden: True, I would not argue Cap being in this. My only point is that bullets put Cap down enough so that he died, and Cap is the limit. I actually think your characters meet that limit, it's just some of your claims are higher then I think the characters actually are in durability. If my characters shoot kill shots with normal bullets, your characters are going to die. This is even more so with the demonic guns that fire hellfire, cannon blasts, and magical energy.

Well we know Blade won't die, healing factor and all....and we've seen Batwing tank bullets.The explosion gun works against you (cannon gun w/e) as my guys have shown great explosion durability, moreso than bullet durability, the only one I see dying from 1 shot would be Ultimate Nick Fury, but he has intangibility.

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#22 Edited by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: I think we'll keep repeating what we've been saying if I reply to this one because it's going to be a lot of what I've said already. I think we've given enough for votes. What do you think?

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#23 Posted by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

@darkraiden: I think we'll keep repeating what we've been saying if I reply to this one because it's going to be a lot of what I've said already. I think we've given enough for votes. What do you think?

Sure.....do we have to ask @indiecomicsftw? I'm not sure....been in too many tourneys with too many different rules about that.

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#24 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3399 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

@darkraiden: I think we'll keep repeating what we've been saying if I reply to this one because it's going to be a lot of what I've said already. I think we've given enough for votes. What do you think?

Sure.....do we have to ask @indiecomicsftw? I'm not sure....been in too many tourneys with too many different rules about that.

If your ready for votes let me know.

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#25 Posted by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden said:

@tparks said:

@darkraiden: I think we'll keep repeating what we've been saying if I reply to this one because it's going to be a lot of what I've said already. I think we've given enough for votes. What do you think?

Sure.....do we have to ask @indiecomicsftw? I'm not sure....been in too many tourneys with too many different rules about that.

If your ready for votes let me know.

Pretty sure we are

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#26 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden said:

@tparks said:

@darkraiden: I think we'll keep repeating what we've been saying if I reply to this one because it's going to be a lot of what I've said already. I think we've given enough for votes. What do you think?

Sure.....do we have to ask @indiecomicsftw? I'm not sure....been in too many tourneys with too many different rules about that.

If your ready for votes let me know.

Good to go.

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#27 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Posted by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by Cjdavis103 (10010 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks wins this he showed that his team whith pregoc could hit and kill the opposition

@darkraiden good debate though

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#30 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Edited by Dextersinister (8561 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: I'm going to have to say that Becky seems to greatly break the rules if she works as you describe her, pre-cog is way over the mental rules and predicting the battle is the reason why Midnighter is banned in street level tournaments. Summoning the image also creates what appears to be an unkillable ally.

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#32 Edited by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister: She's not like what I've seen the midnighter do. Yes, her image is un-killable, but her body is still able to be killed. The gun warns her of danger, and gives her an image of what the danger is kind of like an enhanced spider sense. The gun itself can use the precog ability to aim perfectly, but if perfect aim was not allowed, then characters like Deadshot, Roland, Jonah Hex, Green Arrow, and Hawkeye would not be allowed in street level tournaments either. I don't see why she shouldn't be allowed.

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#33 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister: Also, powers like summoning one hundred summons or dupes and turning invisible are allowed in this tournament. Becky is not much of a stretch when powers like that are allowed.

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#34 Posted by Dextersinister (8561 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: @darkraiden@indiecomicsftw he's not like what I've seen the midnighter do. Yes, her image is un-killable, but her body is still able to be killed.

The image is way outside the limit, it's sort of obvious how an unkillable minion is way beyond street level

The gun warns her of danger, and gives her an image of what the danger is kind of like an enhanced spider sense.

Your words where you would see battles before they happen and know how to win them, abilities like these aren't allowed because why come up with a clever strategy when your opponent can claim they know what your going to do.

Also, powers like summoning one hundred summons or dupes and turning invisible are allowed in this tournament.

Those dupes need to be within the limits and are specifically allowed by the rules this is not, only one character can summon and you've already got one but that's small potatoes, there is a biblical difference between invisibility and unkillable to compare them is just silly when most characters can actually deal with the former.

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#35 Edited by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister said:

@tparks: @darkraiden@indiecomicsftw he's not like what I've seen the midnighter do. Yes, her image is un-killable, but her body is still able to be killed.

The image is way outside the limit, it's sort of obvious how an unkillable minion is way beyond street level

The gun warns her of danger, and gives her an image of what the danger is kind of like an enhanced spider sense.

Your words where you would see battles before they happen and know how to win them, abilities like these aren't allowed because why come up with a clever strategy when your opponent can claim they know what your going to do.

Also, powers like summoning one hundred summons or dupes and turning invisible are allowed in this tournament.

Those dupes need to be within the limits and are specifically allowed by the rules this is not, only one character can summon and you've already got one but that's small potatoes, there is a biblical difference between invisibility and unkillable to compare them is just silly when most characters can actually deal with the former.

It's not a minion or a summon. It's an image of Becky herself. Becky's physical body is not doing anything while she uses her gun to project her ghost image. She is unable to control her physical body during this, but her physical body is still very much able to be killed. It's not like there is two Becky's attacking while she does this.

The gun is capable of showing her battles before they happen, but I did not have her do that in this battle because I agree that would be over powered. I only had the gun warn her if darkaiden's team turned invisible or put my team in danger. That's something that any below street level telepath is capable of doing.

As I said above, her body is still able to be killed, and her body is completely uncontrolled. She might as well be in a coma while she uses her ghost image. It's not a summon, it's her own spirit, which means Becky is not inside her body anymore. Becky's physical body is just a living body, with no one in it.

Becky is not at all overpowered when there are characters in this tournament like the Shadow, Darth Maul, Rocket Raccoon (he has way more powerful guns then anything that would ever be considered street level, he's flirting with city level), Eragon (who has way more powers then the entire tournament combined), Hermoine Granger, and Miss Martian. Becky is nothing compared to these characters.

@indiecomicsftw, can we get a ruling?

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#36 Edited by Dextersinister (8561 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: This is just silly

Doesn't matter what you call it image, minion or duplicate all that matters is what it does.

Does it act on it's own? yes, can it kill people? yes, does hitting it in any way stop it? no, this would be no different than me summoning a ghost to kill everyone

Becky is not at all overpowered when there are characters in this tournament like the Shadow, Darth Maul, Rocket Raccoon (he has way more powerful guns then anything that would ever be considered street level, he's flirting with city level), Eragon (who has way more powers then the entire tournament combined), Hermoine Granger, and Miss Martian. Becky is nothing compared to these characters.

Whether these characters are within the limits or not is irrelevant, your answer for breaking the rules should never be but others are doing it.

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#37 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister:

Doesn't matter what you call it image, minion or duplicate all that matters is what it does.

Does it act on it's own? yes, can it kill people? yes, does hitting it in any way stop it? no, this would be no different than me summoning a ghost to kill everyone

It does not act on it's own because it IS Becky. Her body is a lifeless body while she is doing this. It's not like a separate being is being summoned, because it is just her.

Becky is not at all overpowered when there are characters in this tournament like the Shadow, Darth Maul, Rocket Raccoon (he has way more powerful guns then anything that would ever be considered street level, he's flirting with city level), Eragon (who has way more powers then the entire tournament combined), Hermoine Granger, and Miss Martian. Becky is nothing compared to these characters.

Whether these characters are within the limits or not is irrelevant, your answer for breaking the rules should never be but others are doing it.

I think they are all in the limits, and they are all more powerful then Becky, who is also in the limits. I know I'm not breaking the rules and neither are any of the other characters I mentioned. I was pointing out that this is obviously not a strictly street level tourny when non street level characters are allowed like the one's I mentioned and they all fall within the limits. I'm pretty sure @indiecomicsftw knew what he was doing when he made this tournament. I tagged him again for a ruling, just like the other message as I'm confident Becky is ok for this tournament and think he should be the one to say if she is allowed or not.

I've read every issue from Sixth Gun multiple times now and feel I'm an expert in the series, and Becky even more so, as she is one of my favorite characters, so I know what she is capable of and I know that she is within the limits. I don't pick characters in tournaments because I feel like I can cheat with them, I pick my favorite characters because it's fun to debate with them. I'd rather have a weaker character that I'm a big fan of over a powerful character that I don't really care for any day. That's why I chose Becky. I did not choose her so I could have an over powered character to win a tournament with. If I lose this match, it will at least still have been fun. If it's not fun, then what's the point, even if I win.

I'd appreciate if you would send a PM to me if you would like to discuss this further. I don't mind discussing this with you, because I love the Sixth Gun and want to start using the characters from it in more debates, so I welcome any chance to write about them. I respect anyone's opinion who wishes to have a well thought out conversation or debate on this site (which I do think you would do), but we are currently in the middle of voting and should not really be debating characters in this match any further. Anyone who reads this might have their opinions swayed about my team now, and the opinion would come from an outside observer contributing that is neither me or @darkraiden.

One more thing, everything I've typed is with the utmost respect for your opinion, just like I have the same amount of respect for @darkraiden's debate in this tournament. I may not agree with what you are saying, but I do not think anything you have said is silly. I understand why you said that my previous comment is silly, because you obviously thought I was trying to get away with cheating. Please realize that I would never enter a tournament on this site with the intention of cheating in my debates, because it would bring me zero satisfaction if I won.

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#38 Edited by Dextersinister (8561 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: Most of the characters you listed aren't in this tournament and the tournament they are in has higher restrictions.

Darth Maul is fine if he is from the movies but breaks the limit otherwise, I believe I pointed that out

YJ Miss Martian was actually pretty feeble with the exception of TP

If Eragon is in this he breaks the limits

Hermione breaks a few limits

Don't know the shadow.

I am not trying to give you grief and you may think this ability is ok but you can ask pretty much any decent viner who participates in tournaments and they will agree with me

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#39 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

Oops, I guess I should have tagged @cadencev2 in the last posts instead of that other guy who thinks indie comics win. Could you give us a ruling, your honor? Please take a look at the posts from #31 until this one. I have a feeling no one will vote until this issue is cleared up.

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#41 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister: @tparks: My Shadow is more hax than Becky.... Just saying. I see nothing wrong for this tourney as the rules were very loosely defined.

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#42 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Thanks for clearing this up.

darkraiden - 0

tparks - 1

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#43 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13552 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with team gunslinger (tparks)

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#44 Edited by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@texasdeathmatch: Thanks for taking the time to read through and vote!

darkraiden - 0

tparks - 2

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#45 Edited by texasdeathmatch (13552 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: the Sixth Gun looks dope. Might have to check it out.

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#46 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@texasdeathmatch: I highly recommend it. It's equal parts Western, Horror, and Epic Fantasy. It's kind of like a mix of Jonah Hex, Lord of the Rings, the Dark Tower, and Constantine in one comic. It somehow works really well though.

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#47 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13552 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: Sounds like it. Is it on-going?

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#48 Edited by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

@texasdeathmatch: I highly recommend it. It's equal parts Western, Horror, and Epic Fantasy. It's kind of like a mix of Jonah Hex, Lord of the Rings, the Dark Tower, and Constantine in one comic. It somehow works really well though.

Dark Tower is a mix of Horror, Western, and Fantasy too lol. It also has Sci Fi!

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#49 Edited by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@texasdeathmatch said:

@tparks: Sounds like it. Is it on-going?

Ya, it's an on-going. The just started a second series that branches off of the first called Sixth Gun: Sons of the Guns. I'm not sure if that one will be an ongoing or if it is a 5 issue short series.

@tparks said:

@texasdeathmatch: I highly recommend it. It's equal parts Western, Horror, and Epic Fantasy. It's kind of like a mix of Jonah Hex, Lord of the Rings, the Dark Tower, and Constantine in one comic. It somehow works really well though.

Dark Tower is a mix of Horror, Western, and Fantasy too lol. It also has Sci Fi!

lol. Ya, it borrows a lot from Dark Tower.

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#50 Posted by oceanmaster21 (15140 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: has my vote he is really making progress with every tournament and battle he dose i am impressed:)