Voting Open--MOS Superman(actualphysics) vs Wonder Woman (Death4Bunnies)

Avatar image for death4bunnies
death4bunnies

4946

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#1  Edited By death4bunnies

No Caption Provided

Battle Rules

  • Victory by death or KO.
  • Both are in-character, but fighting as though they are enemies in a random encounter.
  • Clark is unarmed. Diana has her armor, sword, shield, gauntlets and lasso.
  • Starting distance is 1000 ft. Fight starts from the ground.
  • MOS Feats only and location is dceu metropolis.
  • CAV Rules

  • This is a "Challenge a Viner" debate, only @actualphysics and I are allowed to debate
  • If you want to vote at the end of the debate, say "T4V"
  • Vote based on who you believe represented their character or characters better, not based on who you prefer.
  • Please give reasons for your vote(voting is open).
  • Please vote without bias for a character or debater.
Avatar image for death4bunnies
death4bunnies

4946

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for actualphysics
ActualPhysics

96

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@death4bunnies:

My post will be up soon, just wondering if after you would be interested about using Diana again or Supes.

Avatar image for actualphysics
ActualPhysics

96

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#4  Edited By ActualPhysics

@death4bunnies:

Superman, The last son of krypton

No Caption Provided

"Well, I believe in truth, but I'm also a big fan of justice."

After seeing some comments about Diana beating Zod or BvS Superman, i decided to do this CAV to prove When it comes to who is more powerful, Superman is clearly superior even in his first movie, I will argue why his obvious advantages are enough to overcome Wonder Woman's skill and weaponry.

Strength:

This area is where Superman completely dominates Diana, and I personally think it's not even debatable that he has a huge advantage in physicals.

No Caption Provided

Superman was able to snap Zod's neck, who is equally as strong as Superman, this is a very impressive feat that Diana could never replicate since Zod was able to tank all attack in the movie.

No Caption Provided

Superman should scale to Zod's strenght feats like this; where he rips his armor like paper, this feat is very impressive because the same armor was able to endure the skycraper bullrush and the kinetic force of Superman punches.

No Caption Provided

Superman was able to stop Nam-Ek and Faora super-sonic punch while being in a headlock, so he should be equally as strong as him since they fought evenly and should scale to his strenght feats

No Caption Provided

Nam-Ek tosses a 184 ton locomotive at supersonic speed over the street, this is a solid 8k/9k tons feat and it's far above any Diana strenght feat.

No Caption Provided

Also, scaling off Faora who dented a nuke-proof bank value while throwing Superman over buildings.

So, Superman definitely has an edge in strenght and can squeeze his arms so that Diana is forced to drop his weapons, and kill Diana with her same swords or break her neck easily. I believe this is enough for the strenght section.

Heat Vision:

Superman Heat Vision is definitely a factor in this battle, and will help to damage Diana and keep her away with her sword:

No Caption Provided

Superman Heat Vision is hot as the surface of the sun, having melted steel and very durable metal it has a very high temperature, i don't think that Diana can no-sell by feats since she seem to use her gear everytime, and it will help aganist her gear too.

No Caption Provided

Superman heat vision is able to melt kryptonian ships who have a very durable material that can cut into buildings like paper and no-sell orbital re-entry (i will expand this in the second post)

No Caption Provided

Also scaling off Zod, Superman heat vision can cut and destroy buildings with extreme ease so it will definitely help in hurting Diana.

No Caption Provided

The reason i am bringing this up is because Heat Vision is easily able to push Diana, removing the opportunity to go in CQC for a decap with her sword, Superman has this advantage here compared to Diana bracelet clash which was no-sold by Superman (in another movie, but he should be able to no-sell in MOS too)

Speed:

Even with MOS feats only Diana and Superman are close in speed, and neither side gains any major advantage from Speed in term of combat speed, while Superman definitely has an edge in travel speed via some scaling to Zod which I'll cover in a moment:

No Caption Provided

In a canon tie-in comic, which was in MOS timeline we can see Zod casually catching missiles that move faster than the planes that shot it, which were very clearly Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptors. These are incredibly fast jets that move at 1,498 mph or roughly mach 2. So this means that Zod was catching missiles that were massively faster than mach 2. Obviously this feat applies to Superman considering the fact that he and Zod were roughly evenly matched, with Clark having a small advantage due to having mastered his senses before.

No Caption Provided

We see Zod bullrushing Superman into the space. It took about 3 second for them to reach wayne satelite in space. Even if we assume that Wayne satelite is LOS (low orbiting satelite) which are satelites of earth that are closest to earth and orbit at 950 km away from earth. It took them about 3 seconds to reach the satelite which means they moved at a speed of 317 km/second. This is 930 times faster than sound speed, 211 times faster than rifle bullets. With this speed Superman would travel around the globe in 2 minutes. This means , Superman is insanely faster than Diana in term of travel speed and bullrushes to the point she should not be able to react to this (or bfr her for a quick win)

No Caption Provided

Superman is capable of reacting to/dodging a bullet from the A10 Warthog's gun, the GAU-Avenger, whose shots move at roughly mach 3. What makes this even more impressive is the fact that this was Superman's first real battle, and he has improved during the fight with Zod. This gives Superman no problem to keep it up and tag Diana regularly in term of combat speed.

No Caption Provided

Superman can also blitz and bullrush Faora (who has supersonic combat speed and makes mach cones regularly) while the kryptonian is not able to react, i believe Superman can use this type of blitzing to take advantages over Diana short-bust combat speed.

No Caption Provided

Superman is also able to fly at super-sonic speed and reach cloud and space into seconds, he has definitely this advantage and it will be fatal for Diana, since she mostly fights on the ground (like aganist steppenwolf and ares)

As I expect my opponent to mention, Diana has some impressive speed feats, but Superman can hold his own not just via his own speed feats but also via some scaling to other kryptonians like Zod and Nam-Ek.

Striking Power:

This is the area where Superman completely dominates Diana, to the point he can finish this match in a few punches. His bullrushes will be the game changer, while Diana has no counter for them and by scaling off Zod, Superman should be able to deal a ton of damage output.

No Caption Provided

Superman is able to crush Kryptonian metal, which can cut into buildings like butter and tank an orbital re-entry

No Caption Provided

Scaling off Zod, who was able to punch Superman at super-sonic speed to the top of a skycraper aganist gravity

No Caption Provided

Zod and Superman were able to destroy a lot of concrete in their clash which sent Superman into buildings, this is a very impressive building level feat, I believe Zod did take the advantage at end but Superman was definitely a factor here:

No Caption Provided

Zod did destroy a building and sent Superman over a city-block during their clash. this is a building buster feat which Superman should be able to replicate by scaling.

No Caption Provided

Superman is able to punch Nam-Ek with enough force to destroy three trains at high speed, which weights thousand of tons.

No Caption Provided

Superman was able to bullrus General Zod through several Silos. Silos are very dense with very thick walls, far thicker than that of the average building, yet Superman was able to bullrush him here and punch him in quick succession, this is an example how Superman can use his superior speed and striking aganist Diana.

No Caption Provided

Superman is also able to destroy a tip of a mountain with a bullrush

No Caption Provided

With a shared feat, Superman and Zod were able to destroy a large part of a skycraper w/o touching it by their punches, this is a very impressive feat in the thousand of tons range.

No Caption Provided

It was also stated in the novelization that Zod was able to sent a locksafe into orbit, i know this didn't happen in the movie but since it's not contradicted it's actually an usable feat

No Caption Provided

Superman was able to destroy the mountain sized World Engine while weakened into atmosphere, this is by far his best striking feat and it's enough to probably one-shot Diana, i will explain why it's very impressive in the second post, World Engine tanked an orbital re-entry at mach 25 speed and destroyed part of a mountain also.

No Caption Provided

Superman is also able to punch Zod at super-sonic speed over buildings.

Diana only good blunt-force durability feats are by her shield, I think it is fairly obvious that Superman is more than capable of taxing Diana's durability with his blows and bullrushes.

Durability:

Superman is much more durable to Diana, in term of energy, blunt and piercing damage.

No Caption Provided

Zod and superman fell from the sky with enough speed to spark a burning effect by the atmosphere like a shooting star. A small shooting star while burning and falling trough atmosphere reaches temperatures between 1500-1800 kelvin, which is 300 kelvin higher than magma temperature is. This would be a reason that Superman could probably take a bath in Lava and not even get bothered. This explains how Superman is gonna no-sell Diana bracalet clash.

No Caption Provided

Superman was able to tank getting punched into buildings by Zod, so Diana can't even hurt him in hand to hand combat

No Caption Provided

Superman is able to tank and dodge General Zod's super-sonic punch spam, which gives the chance to Superman to no-sell and easily disarm and resist to Diana striking power and sword.

No Caption Provided

Superman is able to tank 30MM tank busting bullets, while Diana is not even bullet-proof so it's safe to say that if he disarms or gets Diana sword, he can easily kill her.

No Caption Provided

Superman resists the gravity beam of the world engine, which was levelling multiple city blocks, it was designed to reshape a planet

I believe this is enough for the durability since the only method Diana has to take Clark over is the sword, as i have shown Superman is much more durable than Diana.

Dealing with Diana's gear:

Now, i will address how Superman can handle Diana's gear, which is the only way she can win this battle;

No Caption Provided

Diana was not able to restrain Doomsday actually, He was basically just sitting there charging up his energy emission until Bruce shot him with a Kryptonite grenade. He then went on to be stabbed in the chest by Superman and actually overpowered Diana despite being severely weakened. Steppenwolf, who has no strenght feats on par with Zod or Superman, was able to overpower her lasso too.

By feats, Diana will not be able to restrain Superman with her lasso, i am sure that with his reflexes Superman will be able to overpower the lasso or pull her off (like he did in JL) via superior strenght.

--

I have shown already that Superman can no-sell her bracalet clash so i will move on the sword;

No Caption Provided

First of all being knocked back a few feet really does nothing in this battle, regardless Diana's sword will not be able one-shot Superman because it has never been a one-shot weapon by feats:

No Caption Provided

Doomsday attacks Diana and runs in to her sword (Look at the way the hilt is faced. Doomsday definitely put his arm in to the sharp side of the blade). This first hit cuts partially through Doomsday's arm, then Diana gets an overhead swing to hit his arm in the same place. This is important since it will take 2 or more hits to cut Superman and while Superman can counter with superior strenght or by using his heat vision to push or damage Diana, we know the sword had cutted Doomsday over 3 strikes, the leg strike was no-selled.

I believe this enough to show that Superman has a counter to her lasso, shield, energy blast and sword

Conclusion:

- Superman has shown to handle vastly superior opponents in term of strenght and durability

- Superman has too versatility for Diana, which only win condition comes from the sword

- Superman has the striking power and bullrushes to end this battle in some punches, same cannot be said for Diana, who has no striking feats that would allow her to hurt or put Superman down.

- Superman has shown to recover quickly aganist powerful energy attacks and blunt-force attacks, has a higher piercing durability and can easily counter Diana's gear.

- Superman can snap her neck or overpower her anyday in term of strenght, like Steppenwolf did

I've made it clear that Superman has an edge in Strength, and that there is a large difference in favor of Superman when it comes to Energy, Durability, Striking Power, and Travel speed

The unfortunate reality for Diana is that Superman simply has too many advantages in this fight, and Superman really doesn't have any major advantages by on-screen feats.

That said, it's your move now

Avatar image for death4bunnies
death4bunnies

4946

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

No Caption Provided

"I've killed things from other worlds before"

Diana Prince

Strength:

That train Nam ek threw is not supersonic, and Faroas bank vault is not nuke-proof........but to be honest none of that matters because DD sales above all of that, and for all his strength he was unable to harm Diana.

I don't think strength matters. at all.... DD was much stronger than Superman and what did that get him? A loped off arm.

For off all of DD's strength Diana constantly used her skills and training to keep the edge.

No Caption Provided

Heat Vision:

Again does not matter. Because Diana has dealt with DDs superior heatvision.

No Caption Provided

Speed:

WW clearly has the better speed.....Like you tried to say Superman dodged this gunfire.

No Caption Provided

And as we can clearly see he did not dodge the gunfire but got tagged by it....you can see him get rag dolled into that building.

And we all know that Diana would statue and avoid these bullets casually.

Here are some hard numbers proving MOS Superman is outright slower than Diana in combat.

Striking power

See here is the issue.....Diana was in a extended battle with Doomsday.

She rocked with him for 13 minutes.

She was unharmed at the end of it.

She withstood punches, throws, heatvision, and everything else DD threw at her.

DD(a superior to MOS Clark) couldnt harm her significantly but her sword hacks off Kryptonain appendages like butter .

Giving her a oneshot option clark does not have.

You left out Skill.

For 1000s of years Diana has been training with her aunt to become the skillful warrior she is today.

She has met kryptonains and took their measure.

The skill gap is a massive as the combat speed gap.

Conclusion.

No Caption Provided

Doomsday was superior to Clark in all aspects.

Punched Superman away...Overwhelm Superman in a beam struggle....this was made explicit.

This ^^ dude couldnt harm Diana in a extended battle, and she was loping off arms.

Superman as of MOS is a lesser DD with no skill and waker attacks.

He gets his head chopped off by the Amazon Princess Goddess that already rocked with his superior.

Avatar image for death4bunnies
death4bunnies

4946

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for actualphysics
ActualPhysics

96

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#7  Edited By ActualPhysics

Rebuttal | The Man of Steel

No Caption Provided

Strength:

As I have shown, Superman has superior raw strenght which will help in restraining Diana or snapping her neck, my opponent has not given a single counter to this and said Strenght is irrilevant, I disagree.

Diana is not Doomsday and you’re also missing something.. Diana has help from BvS Superman who was taking the attention of the mindless monster mostly, it’s not like she was holding her own alone.. Everytime Diana was connecting to DD alone, she was swatted away... given that Superman is smarter, he can for sure manouver her fighting style better than DD.

You are always gonna feel when somebody hits harder and is stronger than you, this gives Superman a clear advantage here.

Heat Vision:

My opponent has claimed heat vision is useless, by posting a gif of Diana using her bracelets

. a few key notes here

- Heat Vision will help to push Diana off and close the CQC

- My opponent has not contested the fact that Diana never took HV directly to face, but he was shielded by a shield and bracalet each time

. - The best Heat Vision feat comes from Zod’s which is Superman equal so unless you believe that the difference between DD’s HV and Zod’s HV is that wide, Diana can still be hurt or moved by the energy attack.

Speed:

Now, I will address how Travel Speed and bullrushes will help Superman to have advantages in this battle, my opponent has only claimed that Superman is slower than Diana in reaction speed... I wanna say that reaction speed does not equal to combat speed. Superman has used his speed to numerous attacks which were proven to be successful, as much as I remember Diana‘s “speedblitz“ was never a game changer in her battles;

No Caption Provided

Here Superman blitzes Faora (who has supersonic speed and can dodge bullets) to the point she cant even react. Damaging her very durable mask (7 hits from Superman to take Zod’s mask) this is an example how Superman can take upper hands over his speed and raw power, something Diana doesn’t have.

No Caption Provided

Superman blitzes Zod at supersonic speed, he can manouver Zod’s flight and punch him at supersonic speed. He did destroy steel and react to Zod’s travel speed which is faster than Diana’s combat speed. This is a very good feat, which allows to give an advantage when Superman will attack from ground to air.

No Caption Provided

Here he blitzes Zod again, taking him over a skyscraper. Zod is more durable and stronger than Diana, so he shouldnt have problem to replicate this kind of feats Aganist her.

Now I will bank Diana’s reaction speed; Yes, Diana can react to bullets but in term of actual combat showings, I don’t see where this “speedblitz decapitating” argument has been done, she didn’t do aganist Steppenwolf, she didn’t do Aganist doomsday, she didn’t do it aganist Supes.. you might bring up the scenes Aganist fodders yes, but there is nothing to show that Diana can actually go un tagged and win this fight by her speed only.

Striking Power:

My opponent has failed to give me blunt-force durability feats and has relied to the one where Doomsday hit the shield, there is a very difference between getting hit in your body and using something to protect you.

I have shown Superman was able to hurt Nam-Ek, Faora and Zod (a bit) with his punches, and all of them have better blunt-force durability feats than Diana.

We saw on JL that Diana got 2-shotted by Supes, and given that Supes best striking feat comes from MOS and best Bullrush comes from MOS, it’s fair to say he can actually replicate what JL Superman has done.

No Caption Provided

Superman busted the World Engine while being weakened from Krypton's atmosphere and under the constant pressure of the gravity beam that displaced thousands of thousands of tons of water, Superman was right beneath it meaning he had to bypass the force applied on him in order to reach and bust dismantle the WE. However, the most impressive part about the feat in question is that the World Engine, which is nearly a kilometer in height and weighs more than a million tons, was moving at mach 1 speed at bare minimum when it hit the ground (here is the actual clip, it was traveling great amount of distances in a very, very, very short amount of time and considering its height, it should be moving at mach 6-10 speed, or at the very least mach 1 or 343 m/s which is lowball), creating a massive city block level+ shockwave that destroyed most of its surroundings and a portion of the mountain located behind it (if not all of it, it legit looked like it busted said mountain XD), all without taking any kind of damage whatsoever, and Superman dismantled that thing in a weakened state with just a speedblitz (read post 266 it pretty much contains every single instance that I'm about to touch upon down below). This is arguably his best striking force feat to date.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

This was World Engine durability feat;

The plane in this pic is a C-17 Globemaster III, which is around 53 meters long, and the Black Zero is around 20x bigger than it, which would make it around 1 kilometer in height.

I was kinda able to calculate the World Engine's actual height, using the info above that @mrtrey

No Caption Provided

The width of that^ plane is 20 pixels, with which we're going to calculate the height of the World Engine. The height of the Engine is 372,06 pixels or about 18,603 times the width of said plane, multiplying that with 53 meters we get the actual height of the damn thing which is 986 meters (14 meters away from a kilometer) or 158 meters taller than the tallest building on the planet aka Burj Khalifa, as well as much denser and thicker than any Earth-based metal, meaning its actual weight is much higher than 1 million ton (take Burj Khalifa for example, we know that: 1) it's smaller than the WE, 2) it has an empty weight of 500,000 tons or half a million ton, 3) it's mostly made up of concrete, that means the WE should be at least 10x heavier or 5 million tons, probably even more, given the fact that it's completely made up of a much more denser material or/Kryptonian metal) and it hit the ground at low mach speeds releasing a massive shockwave in the process without a single dent on it. (@thebestofthebest full credit to him for the calcs and finds)

So yeah, Superman has definitely the striking power to hurt and put Diana down, once the shield is gone he will be able to finish her in a few punches.

- My opponent hasn’t still proved that Diana can no-sell this type of attacks or that Diana has the durability to hang out

- Superman has definitely the speed to throw the punches and the damage soak to tank everything Diana can throw at him

Durability:

There isn’t much to say here, my opponent has not given any explanation on Supes superior blunt-force durability and energy attacks and piercing damage.

Diana has never hurt or put down any High tier with raw strenght and striking only and with her energy attacks, I have already addressed points about the sword.

Dealing with Diana's gear:

Now, this is a very important point about this battle.
My opponent relies and have made an entire argument over the DD scaling but has not addressed the fact that Diana could not overpower Doomsday, so gives the chance to Superman to react and overpower her during her lasso;

No Caption Provided

Steppenwolf, somebody who has no strenght feats on par with MOS Zod or Superman, was able to overpower Diana lasso (adding Aquaman help) as I have shown superior feats to kryptonians, this will allow Superman to break or pull Diana instead, exactly like the JL scene. In term of physicals Superman has always been superior to Diana.

No Caption Provided

Now, my opponent has not addressed about the bracalet clash, which will do no damage at all, since Amazons can easily tank it.

I already shown a GIF about Clark fighting with skilled opponents witouth problem.

Plus, I have already shown it will take about 3 hits, since it took 2 hits to cut DD skin, and DD’s heat vision was very useful in pushing and damaging Diana (a little)

Counters:

That train Nam ek threw is not supersonic, and Faroas bank vault is not nuke-proof........but to be honest none of that matters because DD sales above all of that, and for all his strength he was unable to harm Diana.

This is false, the train throw was sent a high speed and you haven’t countered anything here. My points stand: scaling off other kryptonians, Superman is far stronger than Wonder Woman.

DD did hurt Diana actually, plus BVS Superman never bleed and was still fresh after a full fight with Doomsday.. the difference is that Diana hasn’t shown that he can resist those strikes witouth her shield.

DD did punch Diana like 2 times, according to this you believe that 2 punches from DD are weaker than 2 Headbutts from JL Superman, it’s clear that the shield was a factor here or.. given that I have shown very good striking feats which equal the ones in BVS/JL, Clark can 2-shot Diana with some Headbutts, let alone bullrushes.

For off all of DD's strength Diana constantly used her skills and training to keep the edge.

Well, Doomsday was a dumb mindless monster, Clark is not only smarter but faster and he has a more effective fighting style actually. DD roses and uses random heat vision instead of going to the target. Also, Diana’s skills are very overrated. She hasn’t shown that her skill will allow to give constant upper hands, unlike Faora who Clark was able to defeat.

Again does not matter. Because Diana has dealt with DDs superior heatvision.

How is this an argument? HV’s best feat comes from MOS and Zod, it’s the same beam and temperature right? The beam will still push her away like it did with DD’s HV attacks. Plus, Diana has never took HV to her body if I am right, she always used gear like you have shown. This will help to get Diana off the CQC fighting, allowing some blitzes by Clark with his supersonic speed.

And as we can clearly see he did not dodge the gunfire but got tagged by it....you can see him get rag dolled into that building.

And we all know that Diana would statue and avoid these bullets casually.

Here are some hard numbers proving MOS Superman is outright slower than Diana in combat.

Okay, but I have shown clear Mach 2 and Mach 1 combat speed feats actually, nothing to suggest Superman can’t keep it up. The speed gap is not large plus I have also shown that Superman did actually dodge some of the bullets here, moving on Diana I can take you that on two movies she wasn’t anything hard to react and track;

No Caption Provided

Fodder soldiers are able to tag and track her movements, showing her combat speed is not actually that fast.

No Caption Provided

Steppenwolf, somebody who is slower and weaker than MOS Superman and Zod by a good margin.. had no problem to connect with Diana and keep it up with her in CQC. as much as I remember, someone who failed to catch cyborg Aganist someone who can go into space in seconds is a good way to prove that Supes should have no problem with his combat speed.

See here is the issue.....Diana was in a extended battle with Doomsday.

She rocked with him for 13 minutes.

She was unharmed at the end of it.

She withstood punches, throws, heatvision, and everything else DD threw at her.

DD(a superior to MOS Clark) couldnt harm her significantly but her sword hacks off Kryptonain appendages like butter .

Giving her a oneshot option clark does not have.

This is wrong, first DD was on-screen for only 5 minutes, second Diana was hit 2 time by DD’s HV and everytime she did use her gear.. given that after a punch she should be down, HV will do more damage and not only.. DD did hit her 2 time with a punch, both time she had a shield plus he did throw a car to her, not big deal since Supes was busy on taking him and BFRing him into space for the battle. It’s clear that Supes was more agile and stronger during that fight. At best, Diana did only have a good feat here which is cutting DD arm, as I already shown it will take atleast two hits to cut Clark’s skin plus he has his own counters here.

Clark was also unarmed after the battle with DD (mostly with him) and tanked his attacks witouth much harm, at all actually. as I have shown MOS Clark has very impressive speed and striking feats, so he will not have problem to beat Diana.

Also, DD is a mindless brute as I have said so this is false equivalence that would make Steppenwolf more powerful than DD, since he did better?

For 1000s of years Diana has been training with her aunt to become the skillful warrior she is today.

She has met kryptonains and took their measure.

The skill gap is a massive as the combat speed gap.

I am sorry but this is not a quantifiable and actual skill feat, its just a title. as much as I remember last time she was crushed by Superman onscreen and given that even with MOS feats, Superman has a huge Strenght and striking advantage it will happen the same here. There is no massive combat speed gap, at all since Supes has shown Mach 2 and Mach 1 feat on-screen.

Doomsday was superior to Clark in all aspects.

Punched Superman away...Overwhelm Superman in a beam struggle....this was made explicit.

This ^^ dude couldnt harm Diana in a extended battle, and she was loping off arms.

Superman as of MOS is a lesser DD with no skill and waker attacks.

He gets his head chopped off by the Amazon Princess Goddess that already rocked with his

Well, considering Diana was not able to cut Steppenwolf or Ares head, why it would happen aganist a stronger and faster opponent?

Also, why did you post that GIF? Superman was able to punch Doomsday into space at supersonic speed, there was more gap between Diana and Clark by on-screen feats then DD and Supes as I have shown, Diana did get hit only 2 times here meanwhile Superman was fine after dozens of punches.

Clark still wins.

Conclusion:

I believe I have proven that Supes is either superior, or roughly on par with Diana, in terms of Skill/Speed and , so they are basically non factors when discussing the outcome of this fight, as they essentially cancel out

The main remaining factors are Striking, Durability, and Energy

Superman Striking /Diana’s Durability:

Supes' Striking is clearly far superior to Diana’s Durability, capable of two-shotting her by feats, i already proven MOS Superman has enough damage output to put her down quickly.

Superman Durability/Diana’s Striking/Sword:

My opponent's most realistic Striking and Sword argument scales off Doomsday, meaning Diana will not be able to hurt Supes and will need 2 or 3 hits to cut him up, something Supes can handle with HV + superior strenght and speed.

Superman Heat Vision/Diana’s Energy:

Heat-Vision will play a massive role in this fight, ragdolling and pushing Diana if she gets close, like it happened with DD, opening her to blitzes and punches. My opponent hasn't really countered this, claiming that DD’s HV was a non-factor and making it more powerful, while Zod HV’s and MOS Superman HV have the best melting feats.

At the end of the day, Superman will win this battle in large part due to his superior strenght and durability , but also because he can stun Diana with HV or snap her neck for a quick win, keep up with her via speed and , and tank every single of her hits besides the sword, which will be countered by restraining her or punching her.

@death4bunnies Your move, now

Avatar image for death4bunnies
death4bunnies

4946

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#8  Edited By death4bunnies
No Caption Provided

Oh I don't think you ever known a woman like me.

Wonder Woman.

MOS Superman cant even harm her.

Here is the thing....Doomsday is Clarks clear superior.

That bullrush you keep mentioning, was overpowered by a flat footed Doomsday punch.

No Caption Provided

This should prove that DD Punch >> Superman full bullrush.

Diana resists that same punch, you can say shield, but she has her shield in this fight, plus the skill and speed edge to use it.

No Caption Provided

Diana even resists leaping punches from Doomsday and smiles it off.

No Caption Provided

Like for real look at that chick ^ does she look like she's in any real danger??

No; she looks like she just realized she can take this monsters best shot and be no worse for the wear.

-----------

Heatvision is the same thing....DD is superior to clark and he cant harm Diana at all.

No Caption Provided

Supermans superior^^^

No Caption Provided

Cant harm Diana in a extended 13 minute battle

-------------

But she can harm him.

Dianas sword cut clean through Doomsday thiccc arm.

No Caption Provided

That first one is a block(also proving she can react to a rushing kryptonian) the second is a proper swing, chopped right through that thicc arm.

No Caption Provided

For real, look how thicc his arm is...almost twice the size of Supermans waist at the spot she cut it.

That blade would go clean through him any where it hit.

--------------

You forgot Skill again.

I mentioned that Diana has been training with a warrior culture for 1000 years, well lets see if she cant put that training to good use......then compare it to a untrained 30 year old from Kansas.

Sometimes I like to break down choreography.... so let do that.

No Caption Provided

Diana blocks projectiles with a magic rope...(she trained with non magic ropes.. lol).

She grabs the God of War with her rope and drags him to her for a knee to the gut.

Dodges 2 sword strikes

The wraps up a hand, then dudes neck, and throws him.

--------

Now compare that to Clark's fighting skill.

--------

The skill gap is outrageous even if they were comparable in speed which they are not( Diana holds a strong speed advantage....she fights on the level of SteppenWolf and Ares and Doomsday....and quantifiably she is faster.....)

No Caption Provided

She moves her arms dynamically at the same speed as the bullets....Superman as of MOS does not have that kinda speed or control.

-----------------

Both are in-character

You brought this up not me.....but

Did you really suggest Diana doesn't kill? When she showed up to the BVS fight, she was like...."oh....im gonna kill this ****" paraphrasing.

Diana's kill count is in the hundreds.(from German soldiers, to Parademons, to anyone really, she won't even find out if your the real God of War before stabbing you to death)

No Caption Provided

And she doesn't cry about it like the farm boy.

No Caption Provided

This is the only way Superman can even harm Diana and its such a last resort that the choice has to be Zod or a family about to be heatvisioned to death...and Superman still hesitated..... crying....get that farm boy some therapy he was not prepared for the reality of war.

------------

Did you try to use JL Superman feats?

Diana beats MOS Superman....Notice I said MOS Superman...I saw that you tried to slip in a few JL feats, and I wouldn't of accepted a CAV vs JL Superman so I think its fair to discount those.

Or we could just count them as another Kryptonian that is superior to MOS Superman that current Diana has rocked with.

Barely phased from first headbutt from JL Superman (MOS Supermans Superior)

Breaks through the ground after being headbutted by Superman (Not KO'd from a second harder headbutt from MOS Supermans superior)

So I guess choose: feat for Diana against MOS Clarks superior or completely ignore JL Superman feats.

-----------------

Conclusion

Just so you all dont think im acting silly or anything, I invite you to watch the full Trinity vs Doomsday BVS fight, and look for any instance of Diana being harmed in any significant way.

Diana will be able to withstand a extended battle(if it comes to that) withMOS Superman, based on her fighting Doomsday (his superior) for 13 minutes with no sign of injury.

Dianas sword will rip through Superman via speed, skill, and the fact that it has already ripped through a thicc portion of kryptonian fairly easily.

Avatar image for death4bunnies
death4bunnies

4946

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for deactivated-5e4902745f39e
deactivated-5e4902745f39e

10

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for themadtitan0331
themadtitan0331

491

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

T4V for FKing SURE! BTW I HATE BOTH OF THESE HACK WHACK JOBS BUT I CAN BE PROFESSIONAL! :P

Avatar image for aeneas100
Aeneas100

365

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

T4V.

Avatar image for actualphysics
ActualPhysics

96

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#15  Edited By ActualPhysics

Closer | The Kryptonian

No Caption Provided

Strength:

My opponent has not denied that Superman has the raw strenght advantage, this is a very deciding factor for this battle and will help Superman in doing this;

No Caption Provided

Snap her neck or restrain her or disarm her, by actual feats Superman only needs to tag her once to do this.

No Caption Provided

As I have already shown, Nam-Ek train throw outclasses anything Steppenwolf or Diana have been done, so by scaling Supes is stronger and can easily break out the lasso and pull her like this;

No Caption Provided

Note: I am not using this JL Superman feat, but by feats MOS. Superman is still stronger than Diana by a wide margin, so it’s fair to say he can pull her or disarm her anyday exactly like it was shown in later movies.

Diana has never shown to be in this type of strenght level, so Superman can easily disarm her, restrain her or pull her if she uses the lasso or comes close since he is fast enough to react to her.

Heat Vision:

Nothing to say here, actually Superman was only pushed by HV and by feats Zod’s and Clark’s HV are very close and equal to DDs HV, HV will help to remove Diana to come close, it can be used like this;

No Caption Provided

Diana is pushed and sent off CQC into seconds, this wil remove the opportunity to a decap.

Also, it might do a bit of damage to her.

Speed:

As I have shown, Diana gets tagged by slower people plus Steppenwolf or Ares doesn’t have any Mach 2 feats in combat speed neither the travel speed of Superman (which is very fast and gives an advantage over Diana.

No Caption Provided
Superman also can scale to Faora-UI who has very fast supersonic speed, and could dodge bullets.
Superman also can scale to Faora-UI who has very fast supersonic speed, and could dodge bullets.

Superman could travel to Indian Ocean to metropolis , this by far outclasses any travel speed by Diana and shows how he can use his speed to blitz her and take advantages.

I have shown Mach 3/2/1 supersonic speed, while Diana is fast she has never shown she can use this type of speed to overwhelm some powerful opponent, she didn’t do Aganist ares, Steppenwolf or Superman. So in this category they’re close in combat and Superman is way way faster in travel speed, around Mach 900 scaling off Zod blitzing feats

Striking Power:

My opponent is claiming Diana can tank all Superman attacks, scaling off Doomsday which is very false. Diana was hit 2 times only and both of the times she has her shield, as I have shown Superman striking feats (in another movie) off Diana with no shield have a very different result;

No Caption Provided

I am not using this feat, but I am showing how witouth shield, she is less durable. As I have shown MOS Superman has the most impressive striking feat and bullrush, and can definitely damage her witouth shield, also she will be sent flying away even if she blocks with the shield so it will be a problem, allowing Superman to blitz with his superior travel speed.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Here he destroys a lot of concrete plus buildings over Zod’s clash plus world engine. Diana has never taken hits powerful as them and the shield is not enough to prove she wont ever get a single hit like this. Superman is capable of putting her quickly.

Durability:

Well, my opponent has never claimed that Diana could hurt or damage Superman besides the sword, which is true.

I have shown that Superman is more durable in energy, piercing and blunt force so Diana can’t hurt him or put him down.
II have already shown 3 times about how Superman can handle the sword, which will take 2 hits (glowing DD) to cut him up, size advantage will not mean that it will be a one-shot weapon Aganist Superman

Dealing with Diana's gear:

As I have shown, Superman can no-sell bracalet clash, since it didn’t even harm Amazons (who are not even bulletproof)

Now, moving on the lasso I’ll prove again why it’s a non-factor here;

No Caption Provided

She did not restrain JL Superman (who is not stronger since snapping Zod’s neck and plates feat happened between MOS and BvS)

No Caption Provided

She did not restrain DD, so your argument about DD > Clark fails here, DD was just gonna Release an AOE that’s why he broke out while he was weakened by Kryptonite.

No Caption Provided

Steppenwolf is in a bad position trying to pull himself uppwards while she tries to pull him down with all her strength. She only managed to stop Steppenwolf because of help from Aquaman and than Cyborg shooting Steppenwolf.

So unless Steppenwolf>>>Doomsday>Superman in strength I think its fair to say she did not restrain a Doomsday that was trying with all his strength. I think this completely delegitimizes the idea that she can actually restrain Superman.

As I have shown, Superman can easily disarm or punch her away from her shield, who can’t do any damage to Supes and she can’t fight while HV is on.

No Caption Provided

Superman can handle a hit from the sword, exactly like how DD and Flash were able to do it. Same can’t be said that Diana about Superman hits.

No Caption Provided

This also will allow Supes to remove the opportunity for a blitz or decap

I have shown Supes versatility will be a huge factor here, helping him to handle every single thing Diana has in her gear, the sword is the only threat and Superman can easily disarm her, use it aganist her, use heat vision and take a hit too.

I believe this is enough for this department.

Counters:

This should prove that DD Punch >> Superman full bullrush.

Diana resists that same punch, you can say shield, but she has her shield in this fight, plus the skill and speed edge to use it.

That proves exactly nothing, since we don’t know it was the same force applied, also we know that her shield tanked it not her body. I already shown that Ares weak punches and A Superman headbutt can damage her easily.

Heatvision is the same thing....DD is superior to clark and he cant harm Diana at all.

Well, if Ares or other characters weaker than Superman could harm her, Superman can definitely do it actually. HV was useful in pushing Diana and also Diana was punched only TWO times by DD and both of times she had her shield to back-on, nothing to suggest Clark can’t harm Diana with this type of punches;

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

It would be extremly false to say Diana can no-sell this attacks, she can be easily harmed and put down by Clark’s striking force.

That first one is a block(also proving she can react to a rushing kryptonian) the second is a proper swing, chopped right through that thicc arm.

The size means nothing, Superman is faster than DD in travel and combat speed by feats and is smarter plus she tryed to cut him up here. Size means nothing, I have already shown you how Clark can react to Diana and keep it up.

Diana blocks projectiles with a magic rope...(she trained with non magic ropes.. lol).

She grabs the God of War with her rope and drags him to her for a knee to the gut.

Dodges 2 sword strikes

The wraps up a hand, then dudes neck, and throws him.

--------

Now compare that to Clark's fighting skill.

-------—-

This is completely false, Clark has already dealt with General Zod and Commander Faora, who are very skilled and trained warriors plus stronger than Diana... Diana can do something Aganist Ares yes, but she will not be able to do it Aganist Superman who is far faster in travel and can blitz her.

The skill gap is outrageous even if they were comparable in speed which they are not( Diana holds a strong speed advantage....she fights on the level of SteppenWolf and Ares and Doomsday....and quantifiably she is faster.....)

I have shown Mach 2 speed feats, dodging a bullets and supersonic Mach comes consistently, there is no big gap and also all those characters are slower than MOS Superman in travel and combat speed. Clark can definitely keep it up, Diana speed is only short-bust or reaction... she never seemed to be a game changer Aganist Steppenwolf or Superman or Doomsday, so it won’t be a problem.
Soldiers can easily track and tag her.

She moves her arms dynamically at the same speed as the bullets....Superman as of MOS does not have that kinda speed or control.

You are right, cause he is faster in travel and can dodge some bullets and rockets in combat, also some bullets outpaced her in that scene.

You brought this up not me.....but

Did you really suggest Diana doesn't kill? When she showed up to the BVS fight, she was like...."oh....im gonna kill this ****" paraphrasing.

Diana's kill count is in the hundreds.(from German soldiers, to Parademons, to anyone really, she won't even find out if your the real God of War before stabbing you to death)

All of these characters are fodders, she has never killed or blitzed anyone fast or strong as Superman. At best she did have a single good feat in the DD battle which is very overrated.

And she doesn't cry about it like the farm boy.

This is not even an argument, I am not even replying to this to be honest. Killing Zod, the last kryptonian which is Kal-El equal is better than anything Diana has done in term of killing, he simply didn’t want to do it since Zod was a kryptonian, something it won’t happen aganist Diana, he will not hold back In killing.

This is the only way Superman can even harm Diana and its such a last resort that the choice has to be Zod or a family about to be heatvisioned to death...and Superman still hesitated..... crying....get that farm boy some therapy he was not prepared for the reality of war.

Clark can disarm her and kill her with own sword, BFR her with Zod’s level blitzes, snap her neck easily by restraining her or blitzing by travel speed, punch her since I have shown plenty of Strenght and striking feats that outclasses Diana ones. Also the crying joke is not even an argument, at all.

Diana beats MOS Superman....Notice I said MOS Superman...I saw that you tried to slip in a few JL feats, and I wouldn't of accepted a CAV vs JL Superman so I think its fair to discount those.
Or we could just count them as another Kryptonian that is superior to MOS Superman that current Diana has rocked with.
Barely phased from first headbutt from JL Superman (MOS Supermans Superior) Breaks through the ground after being headbutted by Superman (Not KO'd from a second harder headbutt from MOS Supermans superior) So I guess choose: feat for Diana against MOS Clarks superior or completely ignore JL Superman feats.

This is false, Diana loses to any DCEU Kryptonian first, second is that I have shown striking and bullrushes on JL Superman level, so I used those to show that even MOS Superman can likely replicate that and overpower her in raw strenght and striking, which is not even debatable. Hopefully people understand my point here.


Just so you all dont think im acting silly or anything, I invite you to watch the full Trinity vs Doomsday BVS fight, and look for any instance of Diana being harmed in any significant way.

Diana will be able to withstand a extended battle(if it comes to that) withMOS Superman, based on her fighting Doomsday (his superior) for 13 minutes with no sign of injury.

Dianas sword will rip through Superman via speed, skill, and the fact that it has already ripped through a thicc portion of kryptonian fairly easily.

Well, Diana will not be able to do this Aganist Clark, at all. She lacks quantifiable blunt force durability feats to resist some punches and also they’re very close in speed. She only has a skill advantage but as I have shown Superman already handled 2 very skilled opponents in his first fights.

Conclusion:

I believe I have proven that Supes is either superior, or roughly on par with Diana, in terms of Skill/Speed and , so they are basically non factors when discussing the outcome of this fight, as they essentially cancel out

The main remaining factors are Striking, Durability, and Energy

Superman Striking /Diana’s Durability:

Supes' Striking is clearly far superior to Diana’s Durability, capable of two-shotting her by feats, i already proven MOS Superman has enough damage output to put her down quickly.

Superman Durability/Diana’s Striking/Sword:

My opponent's most realistic Striking and Sword argument scales off Doomsday, meaning Diana will not be able to hurt Supes and will need 2 or 3 hits to cut him up, something Supes can handle with HV + superior strenght and speed.

Superman Heat Vision/Diana’s Energy:

Heat-Vision will play a massive role in this fight, ragdolling and pushing Diana if she gets close, like it happened with DD, opening her to blitzes and punches. My opponent hasn't really countered this, claiming that DD’s HV was a non-factor and making it more powerful, while Zod HV’s and MOS Superman HV have the best melting feats.

I wanna say that Wonder Woman's chance of victory is completely dependent on relying on her sword and shield, and Superman's tendency to rush with his flight speed puts the kibosh on this reliance on a single close-range tactic. Despite her superior skill and her numerous pieces of gear, her options are much more limited and situational than Superman's.

Superman has complete control of this fight due to vastly superior physical characteristics, and because of this he can, without a shadow of a doubt in my mind, defeat Wonder Woman as of now.

Even if Diana did somehow get the opportunity to go on the offensive, Superman still has very strong reaction speed and will not be distracted as the mindless and slower Doomsday was, plus he has his HV to push Diana off a decap and CQC.

At the end of the day, Superman will win this battle in large part due to his superior strenght and durability , but also because he can stun Diana with HV or snap her neck for a quick win, keep up with her via speed and , and tank every single of her hits besides the sword, which will be countered by restraining her or punching her.

No Caption Provided

I believe I did make the better argument here, explaining why this match is not close like someone can believe and I ask for your vote. Thanks

@death4bunnies your move, now for the last post

Avatar image for dmnb2wavy
Dmnb2wavy

1922

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

T4v

Avatar image for death4bunnies
death4bunnies

4946

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#17  Edited By death4bunnies
No Caption Provided

" A hundred years ago I walked away from mankind; from a century of horrors. Men made a world where standing together is impossible."

Diana Prince.

------------------

Im gonna make this super short

Diana has proven to be able to hang with Kryptonians, taking shots from 2 of MOS Supermans Superiors.

Doomsday and JL Superman are both more powerful than MOS Clark and neither KO'd Diana with their hits.

What you dont seem to accept is DD carries ever single feat you listed, and that Diana took his best(including jumping bullrushes).

Superman left Diana(and Batman lol) to fight DD by their selves while he was busy kissing Lois Lane, some of it was off camera and some of it on camera, but facts are facts; Diana was in a ground battle with DCEU Doomsday for 13 minute face to face, some of that time dealing with him all by her self.

You cant use JL feats, you have MOS Superman

If you mean for it to be a anti feat for Diana that she took 2 bloodlusted headsets from a amped enraged Superman, then id like to note that not even the second one(that he put more force into) KO'd her.

No Caption Provided

Thats not MOS Superman ^ JL Superman was amped.

Here is a quote from JL..

"Muscles. Coordination. Basic cellular integrity. A human being can only absorb so much.The Mother Box was designed to reshape a planet. But what if you were stronger than a planet? If your cells were lying dormant, but incapable of decay? A boost from the Mother Box-" "Could bring him back to life". BATMAN-CYBORG

Notice the words muscles(strength), coordination(speed), and cellular integrity(durability) and then the key word absorb. Cyborg called them 'change engines' for Petes sake, change engines.

So no you cant say, "well he got good strength feats in MOS so he gets his JL feats".

JL Superman had received a amp and still couldnt KO Diana with enraged headbutts to the face.

So her face can take at least 2 shots and her shield can take loads, from superior Kryptonians.

Your dude cant survive a single shot from Dianas sword.

For real, the first cut on DD was a block(not a cutting slash) the second cut clean through his arm(the true swing of her sword).....look at the size difference in Kryptonain flesh, she could cut through both Supermans arms and waist in one shot, because hes so skinny in comparison to DDs arm

No Caption Provided

Superman can not regenerate limbs like DD, he has nothing too parry with, and even if Diana hit him in the arm, (based off thickness of DD), the sword goes through his arm and then through his body in one swing.

Skills and Speed

Ive shown Diana is faster in combat in a very quantifiable way, and she has delt with Doomsday close in jumping bullrushes(got her shield up at least).

Ive shown actual skill for Diana.

Im glad MOS Supermans has been in 1 real fight in his 30 years, but that doe not equate to 1000s of years of warrior training, and you can see that on screen, she moves fights and acts like a warrior, he throws haymakers and legit cries when he kills.

Diana does not have this skill or character problem and she kills loads of folk no sweat off her back.

For real, Superman cant even parry the blade, any where it hits it will cleave strait through, I dont even know what more to say....I guess that Diana can definitely track a bullrushing MOS superman

No Caption Provided

She she saw him coming and had plenty of time to react.

She has also strait up reacted to jumping bullrushes from DD.(Supermans superior)

Skill, Speed, Durability, Oneshot weapon, Diana is not losing here.

Superman is a untrained, unskilled 30 year old farm brick, that throws haymaker punches and has no weapon besides his fists and eye beams, both of which Diana has proven she can deal with.

Diana is a 1000 year old trained, skilled warrior with experience and a weapon that has proven its metal against Kryptonian flesh and bone.

She has way better skill, the better speed feats, she can take some of Supermans best shots, and has more effective means of dealing damage.

Diana has the tools and the means....lets give her the votes.

Avatar image for death4bunnies
death4bunnies

4946

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#18  Edited By death4bunnies
Avatar image for death4bunnies
death4bunnies

4946

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for nwname
NWName

6784

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#20  Edited By NWName

D4B. He gave good reason why Diana wont take damage and proved why she can one shot and how she is fast and skilled enough to tag Superman. Pretty much a clean win proven.

Avatar image for mattyboi
MattyBoi

4195

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

D4B, he solidly proved how Diana can tag and one shot Superman. He also proved how Diana can take Superman's attacks.

Avatar image for thespartanb345t
TheSpartanB345T

6210

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@death4bunnies: I vote for D4B

Physic's argument seemed sloppy and less organized. He failed to prove that the DD scaling wasn't valid and that Diana's sword would be a nonfactor, it's pretty decisively Bunnie's win.

Avatar image for ancient_0f_days
Ancient_0f_Days

17642

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

4 votes in D4Bs favor .... Who saw that coming

Avatar image for dmnb2wavy
Dmnb2wavy

1922

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I vote for D4B

They proved she can tank his attacks and eventually cut him up

Avatar image for kingantagonist
KingAntagonist

327

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Gonna vote soon.

Avatar image for actualphysics
ActualPhysics

96

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#29  Edited By ActualPhysics

@thespartanb345t said:

@death4bunnies: I vote for D4B

Physic's argument seemed sloppy and less organized. He failed to prove that the DD scaling wasn't valid and that Diana's sword would be a nonfactor, it's pretty decisively Bunnie's win.

Just wondering, any advice of what I could have done better? It’s one of my first debates atm.

Avatar image for thespartanb345t
TheSpartanB345T

6210

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@actualphysics: I was in a bit of a rush when I wrote that which is why it was so blunt; I can make a comprehensive post later. Remind me in a day or two.

Avatar image for actualphysics
ActualPhysics

96

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@actualphysics: I was in a bit of a rush when I wrote that which is why it was so blunt; I can make a comprehensive post later. Remind me in a day or two.

Ok

@actualphysics:

Its up, I'll open it for votes...

Good CAV.

5 days open for votes, then we close it ok?

Avatar image for death4bunnies
death4bunnies

4946

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0