Voldemort vs Orochimaru

Voldemort, from Harry Potter

vs

Orochimaru, from Naruto

- Voldemort is at his most powerful, has the Elder Wand and

all of his Horcruxes on/with him, but the bit of soul that was in Harry is back inside him

- Orochimaru has all of his standard abilities

- Takes place in Times Square

- No prior knowledge

- In character

- To the death

Opinions?

Orochimaru takes it easily!

@silverrings: Does he also have horcruxes?

Avada Kedavra!! and the dark lord wins

How so?

You don't think Orochimaru could avoid that?

I'm gonna say yes, Voldemort has his Horcruxes on/with him, but the bit of soul that was in Harry is back inside him. I'll edit the set up.

I'll go with Voldemort.

Voldemorte can't win

Orochimaru blitzes..

@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk said:

Care to state why?

Why not, exactly?

How?

@silverrings: the way people generally blitz?

@princearagorn1 said:

Variously. What makes you think Orochimaru can avoid getting hit by a single curse? How would he hurt Voldemort, especially considering he has to destroy all the Horcruxes to do so? What if the wizard hits him with Avada Kedavra?

@flashgreatersigneveryone@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk Arguments for Voldemort?

@silverrings: Way too much speed on orochimaru's part. And he doesn't have to destroy horcruxes, voldemort gets reduced to his child-like state when he's killed.

@princearagorn1 said:

Orochimaru is definitely faster, but spells don't travel slowly, and Voldemort is pretty difficult to put down. How would Orochimaru win this, then, without destroying the Horcruzes?

they're pretty much slow to every genin level characters, and voldemort is not difficult to put down. He's difficult to kill because he's tethered to life. I'd say reducing him to a harmless baby-like state will count as a win, right?

Why do the Horcruxes even matter? If Voldemort's body is destroyed, he can't fight back. Alive, yes, but he would still be incapacitated.

@princearagorn1 said:

Well...

But i'd say total bodily destruction counts as a win for Orochimaru. Unless Voldemort can keep on kicking even when he's just a ghost, of course...

Avada Kedavra!!

orochimaru ftw

All of you here are ignorant of Voldemort..Let me give you a few excerpts from MY Voldemort respect thread, he CAN possess people:

Voldemort is a master of possession, and once possessed Harry:

He was gone from the hall, he was locked in the coils of a creature with red eyes, so tightly bound that Harry did not know where his body ended and the creatures began: they were fused together, bound by pain, and there was no escape--

And when the creature spoke, it used Harry's mouth, so that in his agony he felt his jaw move ...

'Kill me now, Dumbledore ...'

Blinded and dying, every part of him screaming for release, Harry felt the creature use him again ...

'If death is nothing, Dumbledore, kill the boy ...'

Let the pain stop, thought Harry ... let him kill us ... end it, Dumbledore ... death is nothing compared to this ...

And I'll see Sirius again ...

And as Harry's heart filled with emotion, the creatures coils loosened, the pain was gone; Harry was lying face down on the floor, his glasses gone, shivering as though he lay upon ice, not wood ...

Voldemort mentioned as his own curse effected him, he only had one power, possession:

Only one power remained to me. I could possess the bodies of others. But I dared not go where other humans were plentiful, for I knew that the Aurors were still abroad and searching for me.
I sometimes inhabited animals - snakes, of course, being my preference - but I was little better off inside them than as pure spirit, for their bodies were ill adapted to perform magic...and my possession of them shortened their lives; none of them lasted long....

Voldemort's legilimency also aids him in possession, he is also an accomplished Occlumens.

Let's say possession fails, what are Oro's mind control/tp resistence feats?

Orochimaru's faster, more durable, has better defenses, better techniques, and is nigh immortal without horcruxes. Voldemort does not possess the stats and magic to win this.

I agree Oro is faster, more durable. But without a speedblitz he cannot put down Riddle especially since this is a fight to the death. And without high level magic, not ninjutsu, he cannot destroy Riddle's horcruxes. So a stalemate at best. Or without a speedblitz Riddle has techniques Orochimaru cannot counter due to his lack of magic.

good day

Voldemort went into hiding because he was scared of dying, remember? I don't see why orochimaru just.. cut off his head and be done with it..

@princearagorn1: he didn't go into hiding because he was scared of dying... he was trying to regain his body+power after Lilly Potter's spell rebounded his AK spell to protect Harry. Cutting of Riddle's head is still not a win as long as the horcruxes exist. Which is the OP win condition - to the death.

good day

No one's answering my question.

Wht are Oro's TP resistance/TP feats?

Stalemate and then a new Deadly Alliance is formed.

@anal_vomit said:

Dudes think that Oro can dodge spells, though, so what's Voldy's plan B?

How's he gonna deal with being possessed by Voldy, if the wizard tries to do so?

Voldy would then be in ghost form and probably try to posses Oro. You've made a lot of good points about Oro's physical powers, but what say you to this?

Good question, along with some good points, i await people's answers eagerly...

Why can't ninjutsu put down Voldy for good?

@silverrings: Oro himself has taken full control of two bodies before, remember? Also, he despelled a complete mind controlling technique from kabuto, so he should be able to resist it.

Thank you

@silverrings: magic (especially HPU magic) >>>>>>>>> ninjutsu.

If Riddle does a protego maxima... there is no ninjutsu that will penetrate that. In fact if Riddle gets off a shield spell... Orochimaru is curbstomped every single time.

good day

Orochimaru finds himself a new toy to experiment with.

how is that?

And Riddle's shield has no feats to say it can block even a block level attack, which orochimaru could easily deliver with kusanagi/summon..

You need a reason why HPU magic is greater than ninjutsu??

If Riddle does a Repello Muggletum spell... no one in Narutoverse can counter that because they are all muggles. Fiendfyre, inferri, teleportation, transfiguration etc... and great wizards can do this wandless and chantless. Like Riddle... this is beyond exhausting you chakra and hand signs for anything beyond physicals.

As for Riddle's shield... We've been through this you and I, haven't we? In HPU they make it clear stronger magic overcomes magic ergo unless Orochimaru uses magic he can't get through a magical shield. But let's also put it this way what proof is there that Orochimaru can get through a magical shield with no magic??

good day

@theonetaichou:

1.

One: Muggle refers to people of HP world other than wizards/ those who don't know magic.

two: None of the shinobi belong to the HP world, a rolling term cannot be used to classify them.

Three: Jutsu literally means mystical arts/ techniques.

So no, repello muggletum doesn't work.

2. Ninjutsu can do almost everything better than magic. Gravitation control, time loops, reality warp, creation/destruction, dimensional bfr, cellular destruction, atomic dismantling, everlasting flames, far stronger telepathic techniques, time-space techniques, controlling fate, shape shifting, permanent sealing, summoning animals, flight, massive areal destruction, stronger elemental techniques.

HP verse magic cannot match even a hundredth of what ninjutsu can do.

3. And what's to say the shield will protect him against ninjutsu at all? It's meant to fight magic, right? Oro could simply walk through it, if he's not magical..

And Oro can perform jutsus without a stupid wand.

@princearagorn1:

1: Muggle refers to a person who cannot do magic/has any magical ability and wasn't born into magic. Anyone without magic is a muggle... Superman is a muggle, Flash is a muggle, Zatanna is not. The blanket term applies even if it originates in HPU.

Also you argument is asinine... there is no chakra in HPU so I guess Riddle should tank every attack coz it's not magic based then?? Come on

And three... ninjutsu is done by chakra in Narutoverse and means ninja techniques. Everyone has chakra, chakra is not magic nor is the term mystic mean magic (but that's not a Narutoverse defination anyway). Without chakra no one in Narutoverse can do anything. There is no magic in Narutoverse. Ergo they are all muggles. Repello Muggletum works...

I have to say this is one of the most vacuous reaches I've read in a long time, especially in lieu of the Battle Forum Rules.

2: Take the best ninja in in Narutoverse... remove their chakra and all their techniques become null. All those techniques require massive amounts of chakra and skill while a spell from HPU can do similar... with no physical exertion nor hand signs just skill. That's why magic >>>>> ninjutsu. It's not dependant on your stamina, amount of energy, chakra etc just an ability to do magic.

You also missed the point, twas never about techniques.

3. Shields stop magic and physicals. In fact HPU affects the physical but to overcome the spell requires stronger magic. Hence muggles cannot go to Hogwarts. And Orochimaru is a muggle. He is not walking through anything.

good day

@theonetaichou:

1. Nope. It cannot be applied, otherwise there's a problem with licence. "Muggle" is a specific term used by rowling, and it's not applicable to things that belong to other writers, much less the spells that work on them. Naruto/orochimaru are "shinobi" according to the writer. As long as rolling does not have a statement to classify characters from naruto, spells specifically built for muggles do not work on them. If you can present any proof, it doesn't work.

Also you argument is asinine... there is no chakra in HPU so I guess Riddle should tank every attack coz it's not magic based then?? Come on

That's basically the thing I'm trying to tell you. If we use argument like 'lol, no magic', and 'lol, no chakra', the battle isn't debatable at all.

I have to say this is one of the most vacuous reaches I've read in a long time, especially in lieu of the Battle Forum Rules.

See, that's exactly how others feel when useless arguments like that are used by HP fans (muggles), or one piece fans (haki) Bleach fans (shinigami), or naruto fans (genjutsu), and so on..

2.

Take the best ninja in in Narutoverse... remove their chakra and all their techniques become null. All those techniques require massive amounts of chakra and skill while a spell from HPU can do similar... with no physical exertion nor hand signs just skill. That's why magic >>>>> ninjutsu. It's not dependant on your stamina, amount of energy, chakra etc just an ability to do magic.

Doesn't change anything. It's like saying take away magic from the magicians. (The shinobi are at least trained in physical fights lol)

Even if there is physical exertion, the results achieved are far beyond what HPU magic could ever hope to achieve.

Shields stop magic and physicals. In fact HPU affects the physical but to overcome the spell requires stronger magic. Hence muggles cannot go to Hogwarts. And Orochimaru is a muggle. He is not walking through anything.

So what's the highest damage a shield has taken? No shield has taken anything on the level of what orochimaru cannot deliver.

And no proof is provided for rowling's authority over shonen jump. So no. The battle takes place simply as it should: Orochimaru destroys voldemort.

@theonetaichou: Chakra is life force based and is based on the real world believe of chi, everything living has it and it use is incredibly common within eastern literature, the major difference being that in Naruto some can channel that life force into what is effectively magical/supernatural effects, same thing.

Anyway if we are going to assume that Voldemort will start with some sort of insta kill we assume his opponent will do the same problem being he has vastly superior reflexes

You also don't apply a no limits fallacy on the shields ( which aren't auto) best feats the limit

Orochimaru stomps. Like hard.

Depending on your scaling he's anywhere from like Mach 3 to Mach 20 speed, he has Kusanagi which is said to cut through anything (only failed against 4 tail Kyuubi), he can literally be killed and revive by spitting up a new body with Oral Rebirth, he can summon giant Snakes that dwarf forests, he has wind jutsu that blow people throughout forests, can meld with the ground, has earth clones, can stretch his limbs, and more.

Orochimaru can solo the HP universe with ease. People, people in HP have no defense against a fast opponent, they fall everytime. Half of their spells miss regular humans who aren't even athletic, and you put them against someone faster than sound? That's ridiculous.

As for TP/Possession feats, Orochimaru has possessed at least 2-3 other people.

... umm mate we are debating two characters from different fictional universes, licence is not a problem. So spells will not work that Riddle does because they are only in HPU, not applicable to other universes then? So then since chakra doesn't exist in HPU Orochimaru's best attacks can be tanked by a newborn babe in HPU?Then what of this fight?

As for the next line... let me apply your logic... "As long as rolling Kishimoto does not have a statement to classify characters from naruto HPU, spells ninjutsu specifically built for muggles ninjas do not work on them. If you can present proof, it doesn't work."

Then what of this battle?? I still think a refresher course in the Battle Forum Rules is warranted in my humble opinion.

2: It went over your head... in Narutoverse a ninja, nor matter how powerful, can exhaust their chakra in a fight which would mean the high level techniques that require massive amounts of chakra could not be done. In other words chakra limits narutoverse, while HPU magic has no limit. If you have the skill you can do such spell, while in narutoverse you need skill+chakra. Hence why I say magic>>>>>>ninjutsu. This is not about techniques.

3: As for shields... it is true no shields have taken the damage that Oro can deliver, BUT there is no proof that they can be brought down by the damage output of Oro as well, particularly bad is that in HPU shields can only be overcome by stronger magic!

And since no proof that Kishimoto has authority in HPU, Orochimaru does nothing and Riddle wins. Yay, I love this type of debating btw.

good day

...it's meaningless to talk of real world chakra as there are various chakra interpretations in the world. What matter is "What is Chakra according to Narutoverse"!!

No one applied a no limit fallacy... aaaargh people need to understand when to apply this or when someone has applied it. Inference btw can be/is logically allowed.

good day

@theonetaichou:

1. Difference:

Repello muggletum: spell that works specifically on muggles.

2. I see. But I'd say it's better than using pathetic low level magic that fighting on a far higher scale. In a fight, a latter is obviously far more useful. But anyway, it's a matter of opinion, so we can drop it..

3.

it is true no shields have taken the damage that Oro can deliver, BUT there is no proof that they can be brought down by the damage output of Oro as well

A direct example of no limits fallacy. As long as they don't have the feats to block something on that level, they can't.

particularly bad is that in HPU shields can only be overcome by stronger magic!

First, mention a quote that says shields can only be overcome by stronger magic and nothing else.

That's because magic is the only thing HP verse wizards have that can cause that kind of damage. Can they punch that hard? no. Do they learn to use guns/ weapons? No. Why does it have to apply to people with much higher damage output than HPverse could even dream of?

Oro bites him leaving his curse mark and voldemort being the power monger he is comes back to learn more! Why can't oro just summon his big snake and swallow riddle then get rid of his jutsu and ta da oro has magic of his own he made voldemort disappear! All jokes aside I like oro more but with no prior knowledge of each other I doubt he'll know what to do with horcruxes and I think riddle would have a big wtf moment fight oro as ge uses jutsus and he is fast as hell. Too bad he doesn't have that reaper jutsu old man hokage used on oro.

@theonetaichou:

...it's meaningless to talk of real world chakra as there are various chakra interpretations in the world. What matter is "What is Chakra according to Narutoverse"!!

What people do with chakra/chi/life force may change but what it is is always the same.

No one applied a no limit fallacy... aaaargh people need to understand when to apply this or when someone has applied it. Inference btw can be/is logically allowed.

If that's the case then you should understand why he can't stop any of his attacks, the shields have never shown holding up against any of the attacks he used against the 4 Tails

Muggle: person with no magic (Orochimaru and Narutoverse)... ergo?

... it is not a direct example of a NLF. There is no proof it can be brought down by Orochimaru and there is no proof it can't. A NLF would state it can never be brought down.

The fallacy lies in the fact that you assume since no one did Orochimaru level attacks against the shield(s) that therefore they can't take that level type of damage. That fallacy is known as begging the question (I would put more in ignorantiam column actually). Hence why you ask for feats, illogical. Even if the feats were not there the shields could still tank that and you cannot prove that false.

Magic is the prima force in HPU, just as chakra is in Narutoverse. They both have strengths and weaknesses. As for guns, they don't use coz they are inferior to magic. Just as much as Orochimaru would not use guns coz they are inferior to chakra. Damage output is relative. Some think destryong cities is wow, while others galaxies is wow. Power and the resultant damage output is great but that doesn't mean lesser can't bring you down. take the AK... a 1st year who can cast it can kill Goku who can destroy planets/solar systems/ galaxies etc (depending on where you lie). Goku is still >>>>>>>>>>>>> (nth degree) 1st year student. But the AK will kill just the same as it would kill another 1st year. That is why we debate, and not just look at who can just throw panets into the sun as a conclusion.

As for the quote... I'll go find it.

btw... I don't think CV wants us to debate, you and I. My notifications always fail w.r.t your rebuttals. Strange, that is mate.

good day

what people do in REAL life is meaningless... what is chakra according to Narutoverse. In real life chi will not let you blow up planets a la DBZ, in DBZ it can. It is not the same. Some believe chakra is an illusion (what does that mean for Narutoverse then), others chakra can only come through decades of introspection (again what des that mean for Narutoverse), others say charkra is limited and cannot be increased nor decreased. Also chi=/=chakra=/=life force necessarily.

lack of proofs is not proof of weakness. That, mate, is an actual fallacy. There is no proof that a shield would go down against your said attacks. Just as much as there is no proof it wouldn't.

good day

@theonetaichou: first off, ninjitsu is not specifically for ninjas, its to effect everything. Second, Rock Lee is an example of what a ninja can accomplish without ninjutsu. Third, the damage caused in HP by damage-causing spell is measly and underwhelming. Finally, magic defenses of the highest levels even have been overwhelmed with force, far less than Orochimaru can provide

@darkraiden:

I'm not even going to listen to you here.

I trust @princearagorn1 knows what he's speaking about here, so I'l have to concede that Volddemort could go down...But let me address something.

@thelocust619

This is a complete farcse. , Peter Pettigrew may have used an extremely powerful blasting curse to decimate a street and kill twelve Muggles at once while evading Sirius Black, who was blamed for the crimes and Pettigrew's alleged^death The explosion was so fierce, it left a massive crater in the street, with the pipes showing. The Ministry gave an excuse of a "gas leak" to the surviving Muggles, and thought that Black was the one who used the curse. Confringo is no joke, it can be spammed with those who know wordless magic and could blast people apart, destroy infrastructure. There's also Fiendfyre or a simple pyromanic spell that Voldemort utilized in his fight with Dumbledore, a giant fire worm or 10 for this matter would easily rip apart and devastate anything in it's path. Harry Potter spells are more.."useful." then anything. Need a door to get open? Point your wand and shout one word. Want to disable someone? Multiple spells. Snail-throwing up curses, jelly-legs, jelly-fingers, etc. But there are the destructive bunch in there. My point is that it's absoloutly baseless to undermine the capacity and ability of Harry Potter spells.

I don't see how Voldemort can get over the insane reflex difference between him and Orochimaru.

Then why even reply to me? You seem salty and jealous that i'm more knowledgeable and logical than you, but don't be. You can't help your condition. So why not try disproving my points and you know, actually debate instead of putting your fingers in your ears and screaming "lalalalalalalalala" like a small child.

The horcrux argument applies to Oro as well. Oro has his soul/essence scattered in more places than Vol, and the example used in the manga is his current and previous minions/captives. If he has marked them with his curse seal, or mended his chakra with theirs, he can return through them. Also, the process for returning Oro is much easier than returning Vol. It requires the flesh of the person with his mark and some jutsu.
I would post a pic, but I would have to retrieve a pic from a manga site, and my IP is watched like crazy.

So, if Vol did manage to kill him, he couldn't destroy all of Oro. Orochimaru has his own version of the horcrux.

As a side note, I would like to clarify an illogical claim found on previous posts, and justify what is deductively consistent:
There is a claim that because Vol cannot have all of his horcruxes destroyed, Oro looses.
This is because Vol does not completely die.
BUT, if the condition for victory requires death, then Vol would have to kill Oro as well.
If Oro destroys Vol's body, then Vol did not kill Oro.
This leaves the match a stalemate until Oro and Vol meet at another location, or until Oro hunts the horcruxes and dies during the hunt, or destroys all of the horcruxes.
So in the end, this battle must end in a stalemate and cannot have a winner as defined by the poster. Remove the horcrux deal or add the condition that only the current and present body has to be destroyed.

As for the battle itself, does Oro have his hands back?
If so, I wonder if they are trying to quick kill each other, and if that is true, then you must be delusional to believe that Vol stands a chance.
Speed blitz, Vol gets obliterated when Oro touches any part of Vol's body. Vol is physically weaker than me, and Oro can travel insanely quickly. Check his battles against Naruto (when Naruto used the Nine-tail's chakra in the forest), Sasuke, or Itachi.

Vol could shoot death-curses at Oro starting at 1 mile away, with Oro moving at 1 foot per death curse cast, and be able to dodge the attacks until he is close enough to one-hit-kill Vol. Any chunin could do this. They can dodge/catch multiple projectiles traveling at more than 100mph at close range, and Oro is a Senin, lifetimes ahead of 99% of the chunin's.

So to restate the obvious, Vol is speed blitzed. Not to mention that Oro could send multiple clones in waves which could achieve victory without Oro having to ever put himself in harms way.

Vol dies 1000000/1000000 times, no chance for victory. This fight is like a small black ant VS a human.

Oro takes this pretty handily.