Voldemort vs Grindelwald

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CocaColaMan

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I believe that Voldemort is more powerful on even ground, but Regular Voldemort vs Elder Wand Grimdelwald would go to GW.

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Yourmaster

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@cocacolaman:

What makes you say that Grindelwald with the Elder wand would have defeated Voldemort?

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CocaColaMan

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@yourmaster: it doesn’t make sense to me that Voldemort and Grindelwald would be far enough apart with their regular wands that Voldemort could still beat Grindelwald while GW had the Elder Wand. Even by feats, Grindelwald help up against a younger, faster Dumbledore than Voldemort, though the one Voldemort faced arguably had more raw power.

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Yourmaster

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#404  Edited By Yourmaster

@cocacolaman:

Well, there isn't really anything to suggest that Dumbledore had grown weaker by the time of the Harry Potter books so it would only make sense for him to have been more experienced and magically knowledgeable. There was hardly anything to indicate that Dumbledore was more powerful than Voldemort as they fought to a stalemate, while Dumbledore wielded the Elder wand. Dumbledore also required Fawkes' assistance to avoid Voldemort's killing curse. For all that we know, Dumbledore could have died had Fawkes not been there. Meanwhile, Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald, while Grindelwald wielded the Elder wand.

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MyGod000

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Voldemort wins. Voldemort was on par with Elder Wand Welding Dumbledore, Base Dumbledore was enough to best and beat Grindelwald. Dumbledore even in old age was fast enough to easily blitz a 16-year-old Harry Potter, age didn't Hamper him.

Dumbledore needed help with Fawkes against Voldemort the argument can be made that without it Dumbledore dies almost instantly to Voldemort in that duel.

Base Voldemort>=Elder Wand Dumbledore>>Base Dumbledore>Elder Wand Grindelwald.

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CocaColaMan

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@yourmaster: Let me put it this way.

Grindelwald grew up as the best student of Durmstrang, on Dumbledore’s level at Hogwarts. Admittedly, Tom was stated to be brighter as a student than Dumbledore by Albus himself, but I digress. They (GW/DD) teamed up, and would have pretty much ruled the world if not for Ariana’s death. Grindelwald effortlessly murderstomped multiple aurors, which is a feat that sets him right up there with Tom and DD (unless Snape/Bellatrix/McGonnagol have feats I missed that allow them to do that,) but I don’t remember seeing him having the Elder Wand. Plus, Dumbledore was only a “shade” more skilled than Gellert, which has nothing to do with power. And don’t tell me Dumbledore was that close to Voldemort in skill, Dumbledore could have done to Voldemort what Voldemort did to him when Riddle was forced to summon a shield, he was just avoiding killing Tom the whole time, a setback not held by Voldemort.

Overall, I don’t see any reason for a person who has multiple reasons to be on DD/VM’s level WITHOUT the EW to lose when he is WITH it, as that grants a power boost. Given the speed similarity, and the skill gap, I don’t see why Voldemort would win in that specific circumstance.

Yes, Dumbledore was more powerful than Voldemort, just about everything in the entirety of the series confirms this. As for Fawkes’ moment, think back to Voldemort and the shield. What would stop Dumbledore from, at the moment he cast that spell, apparate right behind Voldemort and shoot another one, or cast a charm to stop Voldemort from casting a spell such as Petrifcus Totalus, or simply brushing aside the shield with TK, or any other number of things he could have done while Voldemort was creating a shield? Nothing but his morals. Voldemort having the ability of being okay with killing defined that scene. And I doubt that Dumbledore had no other way to escape, being how he could do more effective things than I can think of, but I can’t really prove that, so I won’t push it.

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GateOfBabylon

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Arguing that Voldemort beats Grindelwald is one thing, but claiming that Voldemort was superior or even equal to Elder Wand Dumbledore is plain dumb wank.

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MyGod000

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@cocacolaman: No Dumbledore couldn't do the same to Voldemort. Dumbledore may not have been trying to actively kill Tom, but he was actively trying to incapacitate him, and capture him when he tried to drown him in a water dome, and Capture him with a fire Rope.

That is a poor man's argument, not killing someone isn't going to hamper someone like Dumbledore just like it didn't hamper Harry when many times Draco throw lethal spells at him.

Voldemort is stated to be one of the best duelist if not these best duelist in the series. prior to harry, he was never bested in combat or defeated. Dumbledore couldn't beat Voldemort plain and simple, yes Dumbledore stated Voldemort was a better student than him, not only that he outright stated that Voldemort is the most knowledgeable individual in complex spells.

that alone put him above Grindelwald. people try to wank Dumbledore a lot, but they forget that Tom Prior to dueling Dumbledore, and harry, haven't picked up a wand in over 13 years.

Still, it was enough for Voldemort to stalemate elder wand Dumbledore when the Latter didn't need the Elder wand to beat Grindelwald.

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Bayman007

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Voldemort by a clear mile

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Eredin12

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#410  Edited By Eredin12

Fantastic beats are book canon( book canon is not really a thing, it is JKR Universe canon) they are not books, but they are as much of canon as books, like how EU Star wars have books and comcis, video games, that are both equally canon

JKR herself said everything in FB moves are canon to her universe becase she writes them, and approves them, she said it it is canon and she decides that, Word of God >evrything else

Professor Mcgonagall was just retcon like what Marvel did many times( Beyonder,...)

Now when it coems to Book canon Grindelwald has superior feats

Effortlsly and instatly vaporizing 5 auros instalty with one spell

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Beter Telekinesis

he effortlsly one-shotted 2 wizards and muggle with a gesture

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His telekinesis is strong enough to effortlsly throw Car 20 meters at great speed like a toy

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Speed

He effortlsly moved his arm as fast as the spell

Deflecting spells from 29 wizards at once

Dodging Credence with ease at the point-blank range who can move and attack like exsplosion in Obscura form

Grindelwald effortlsly with one spell vaporized Leta in second

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLIPwcttmGY

He effortlsly made and controlled a blue fire that was vaporizing small army of wizards

His feats are beter but Voldemort should win as he is stated to be more powerful

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Zuriel-el

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movie versions, grindelwald stomps.

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thebluedragon20

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Grindelwald has impressed me more. He does more impressive things with less effort than voldemort, though he has not faced any notable dualists yet, based on his near parity with Dumbledore I think he would win.

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Eredin12

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#413  Edited By Eredin12

@zuriel-el: Move Grindelwald is also book Grindwlad, i mean FB moves are as much canon as books, JKR herself siad everything in a move is canon to books, becase she writers them and approves them

But Voldemort is canonically superior to Grindwaldd even if Gallert has more impresive feats in new moves

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Eredin12

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#414  Edited By Eredin12

@thebluedragon20:

He has killed or beat Percival Graves since he was the leader of Auros and we can asume that Graves can do everything Grindelwald did when he acted like him becase none suspected him and evreyone was not surprised how powerful was Graves, meaning they knew he was that powerful

That inculed those feats

effortlsly one-shotting trained 2 wizards and muggle with a gesture without any wand

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His telekinesis is strong enough to effortlsly throw Car 20 meters at great speed like a toy

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Teleporting in combat with complete ease,effortlsly deflect spells at close range without even paying attention to them, he has some good feats, mainly we know that he is extremly powerful becase of his wandless magic which is very hard and he did it effortlsly

But we dont know details how Grindwald beat him, but he probably did not cheat simply becase he is far more powerful and he likes to fight in person

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Boby501

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#415  Edited By Boby501

Voldemort held his ground in an even match against and Elder Wand Dumbledore! a better feat than anything Grindelwald ever did who actually lost to Dumbledore while he had the wand so I’d say Voldemort takes a good 9/10 in an even match and 5/10 if Grindelwald has the elder wand.

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thebluedragon20

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@eredin12 I agree with you on grindelwald's abilities, but I don't think we can attribute his feats to Percival Graves. Doing so would make Graves the most powerful wizard in the verse outside of the big three, and he has done nothing to earn that except being killed/defeated by Grindelwald.