Varian Wrynn (Warcraft) vs Sigmar Heldenhammer (Warhammer Fantasy)

vs

These two warrior kings face off in an empty field. Varian believes that defeating Sigmar will prevent the Burning Legion from ever setting foot on Azeroth again, Sigmar believes that defeating Varian will prevent the Chaos gods and their forces from ever attacking the Old World ever again.

Both are armed with their standard equipment, fight takes place in an open field. Which Warrior-King will be victorious?

callouts

@wut@sirfizzwhizz

Do you know anything about sigmar? He would solo WOW. Easily. But you picked one of the weakest characters to fight him. Huh. You are aware sigmar turned himself into a god through willpower correct? The Titans wouldn't be able to stop sigmar. Sorry for sounding rude just letting you know you made a stomp.

Try Karl Franz if you want a fight varian has a slight chance of winning.

Yes I know a great deal about Sigmar, even read his novel trilogy. No he would not solo WoW, unless we are specifically using god Sigmar (and WoW has it's own Pantheon who are also incredibly powerful so even there I have my doubts), which I'm not. I'm using mortal Sigmar, the warrior king of the Unberogen, a man who was very much flesh and blood and very much capable of dying.

Yes he became a god, so it's very fortunate that I'm not using god Sigmar then isn't it?

I don't know Karl as well as I know Sigmar, so I had no idea how they would match up so rather than make a stomp I took someone who I thought would give Varian a great fight (even if either of them lose).

@paragonnate: @noah_ouellette:

Current Sigmar is the one who survived battle with current Khorne:

Granted Sigmar lost, but that still is impressive to survive.

Anyway even human Sigmar should win.

@paragonnate: What can Sigmar do? I'm guessing the other commenters here are either commenting on Sigmar in a more powerful form, or only imagine Varian as just your typical fantasy swordsman, and not a superhuman infused with the soul of a demi-god.

Off the top of my head.

Exceptionally gifted warrior, was fully capable of taking on Orcs in close combat and winning even before he came of age. Killed an orc Warboss with a broken bronze sword IIRC. He was 16 at the time IIRC.

Regularly goes through entire battles sans armor and comes out without a scratch.

I'll go digging for more, I know it's not much but it's really early and I'm very tired.

Bump, come on guys!

Find feats for Sigmar is pretty hard. All I know about prime mortal Sigmar is what he is stronger than Aenarion:

http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dragon_Ogre size of the dragon ogre.

But using powerscaling is boring IMO.

@redzkz: Sigmar isn't better than Aenarion imo. Sigmar took on one Greater Demon with help and a blessing from Ulric and barely won. Aenarion took on four Greater Demons at the same time (one from each of the four Chaos gods) and won. He had help from a dragon at the very start but a large portion of the work was done by Aenarion himself.

@paragonnate: No no no. Stop. Your only talking about sigmar at his weakest. Your actually just skipping everything else. First of all. Aenarion also ended up fighting Khorne one on one and doing just fine. Or it was an avatar, wasn't explained. But it was likely Khorne as at that time the wards of the world were weak. And whenever the chaos gods leave the warp they are much weaker.

Secondly. One of sigmars greatest feats, be he God or man. Happened while he was mortal when he defeats nagash alone, one on one. The being who the very chaos gods were afraid of. Those universal+ beings. Who threw everything they had at him, including greater daemons. Nagash who was and forever will be a threat to the universe.

Anyways yeah there you go. Some more information on mortal sigmar. Also God sigmar solo stomps most universes. He has multiversal feats.

@tparks: Nope. Mortal sigmar would have no problem soloing wow. So would most of warhammers high tiers. And don't be ridiculous varian would have trouble defeating an ork war boss or a vampire knight from warhammer. Warhammer is much too high of a fantasy setting.

Fan boy alert

For who? If I may ask.

@royal_warrior: I'm just clarifying why it's a stomp. I'm not a fan of sigmar. He's a righteous b******. I much rather prefer Nagash and aenarion, hell even malekith. But gamesworkshop made him ridiculously powerful.

@noah_ouellette: So the multiversal being nearly got ganked by a human with a regular old knife? Sigmar prior to his Asencion is none of the things you listed. He's a master strategist and one of the best fighters in the setting. But that's it. He has no magic, no godly abilities, nothing but brain and brawn.

He gets injured and nearly dies several times while building the empire, fighting chaos forces and so on.

Of course God Sigmar would stomp, which is precisely why HE'S NOT IN THIS BATTLE.

@paragonnate: actually the hardest facepalm. Stop being ignorant. Sigmar does not just appear in those three books you read. Nagash in his weakest form was life wiping half the planet. Sigmar killed him in his second strongest form. The chaos gods were afraid of Nagash, does this mean nothing to you? Those brings that are around hyperverse level are afraid of Nagash. Sigmar prior to his ascension is all of the things are said. The lowest possible tier sigmar could be is continental. Highest tier in mortal form is probably stellar+. By the way greater daemons from warhammer are capable of destroying solar systems.

Do you understand now why you're wrong? Please say yes. I don't want to have to quote the chaos gods being multiversal threats and them being afraid of Nagash.

If the battle is sigmar at the age of 16. Varian still loses. But he actually has a chance. If it's sigmar in his middle age WOW gets destroyed by him alone. Middle age sigmar is ridiculous and Aenarion even said how powerful sigmar was.

If you made this battle on space battles. It would get locked immediately. Everyone there knows warhammer.

@noah_ouellette: What has he done? I get that he's beaten high tier characters, but beating high tier characters doesn't make a character one, that's just par for the course for a fantasy genre. What can he himself do that makes him a Universe buster at the level he is being presented in the OP, as a human?

@noah_ouellette: Stop being ignorant

How about you stop wanking.

Sigmar does not just appear in those three books you read.

Yet the injuries and near fatal wounds he sustained from orcs and other humans still happened to him. Just because the events didn't line up with what you think Sigmar should or shouldn't be when he was human doesn't mean they didn't happen.

Nagash in his weakest form was life wiping half the planet. Sigmar killed him in his second strongest form.

Yes, let's totally not mention the fact that Sigmar had the Crown of Sorcery. Which shielded him from magic on top of Nagash not wanting to go all out just so he wouldn't destroy the crown in the process of the battle. Dishonest debating at it's finest,

The chaos gods were afraid of Nagash, does this mean nothing to you? Those brings that are around hyperverse level are afraid of Nagash.

Riiiiiiiiiight. The Chaos gods weren't afraid of Nagash in the slightest. Like you said, they are pretty much omnipotent in the Warp and can affect multiple universes, Nagash is far far below that. He's planetary at best. Also, once again, Sigmar had protection and Nagash wasn't going all out to begin with.

Sigmar prior to his ascension is all of the things are said. The lowest possible tier sigmar could be is continental

BS, if Sigmar was continental prior to his ascension he would have soloed the Orc army at Black Rock Pass with laughable ease. But what's that? He didn't? He needed an army of united tribes of the Old World as well as Dwarf allies? Huh.....some continental level power he must be. Also continental powers don't get mortally wounded and left to drown, unconscious in a river, by a normal human with a normal knife.

Highest tier in mortal form is probably stellar+

You of course have quotes of him doing this yes? Go ahead....I'll wait.

By the way greater daemons from warhammer are capable of destroying solar systems.

40K=/=WHF the two settings power levels are completely different. Based on 40K showings a single greater daemon would solo the Old World. Yet in WHF they can be brought down by mortal warriors, extremely exceptional mortal warriors backed up by *bleep* you levels of firepower among various other things but mortal everyday humans none the less.

Do you understand now why you're wrong? Please say yes. I don't want to have to quote the chaos gods being multiversal threats and them being afraid of Nagash.

Do you understand why you're wrong? Please say yes. (Also, drop the tone tough guy) Nagash viewed the Chaos gods as his rivals and planned to eat them among other things. It's also worth mentioning the fact that Nagash was completely and utterly insane and based on his actual showings wouldn't last 5 seconds against a Greater Daemon as they are depicted in 40K, much less in the Warp itself.

If the battle is sigmar at the age of 16. Varian still loses. But he actually has a chance. If it's sigmar in his middle age WOW gets destroyed by him alone. Middle age sigmar is ridiculous and Aenarion even said how powerful sigmar was.

Pure wank. Sigmar at the age of 16 has 'only' killed Orcs. Granted he did it with incredible skill and speed, especially since he was just 16 at the time, but it was absolutely nothing that Varian hasn't bettered by an order of magnitude. Mortal Sigmar can't solo WoW. Malfurion swats him like a bug, or has the grass beneath Sigmar's feat grow up and strangle him, or has an entire forests worth of animals rip him apart, and so on and so on. Thrall one shots with the elements, just like he did to Garrosh. Jaina Proudmoore freezes him solid with a gesture, just like she did to an entire army battalion. Tyrande Whisperwind (cough Avatar of Elune cough) murks him with divine powers, just like she soloed a small demonic army without taking a scratch. Now god Sigmar would beat all of them, of course, but Warcraft also has it's own deities and immortal beings, some of which, like Elune, have shown to be incredibly powerful.

Aenarion may have commented on how powerful Sigmar was, but he could have meant that Sigmar was powerful for a human. If you could provide a quote, since I can't recall what was said at the moment, I would appreciate it.

If you made this battle on space battles. It would get locked immediately. Everyone there knows warhammer.

First, LMFAO at no one on here knowing Warhammer. Elitist attitude will get you nowhere.

Second. I know SpaceBattles, I've read battle after battle on the vs forums there and I know for a fact that you are wrong. In fact here's some proof.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/conan-vs-sigmar.126364/ Conan the Barbarian vs Sigmar. Started by mod and not locked yet. Last time I checked Conan isn't continental/solar system level like you claim Sigmar is, yet there the battle is.

Only Aenarion actually competent... Did you even read novels about Nagash? What is there to prefer? Malekith was cool in Blood of Aenarion, but he was hit by "idiot ball" in all other novels.

No. Aenarion never took on any Chaos Gods. Read Blood of Aenarion trilogy.

Sigmar only took on Khorne and only in AoS. Sigmar lost the moment Khorne became serious, once he heard that Tzeench was attacking his realm. And Khorne took on both Tzeench and Great Khorne Rat and won right after he wiped the floor with Sigmar. Sigmar only feat here is surviving a beating from Khorne, who was in a hurry.

Chaos Gods also became universal only in AoS, in WFB they were planetary.

Sigmar, as a human is none of the things Noah has said. He's nearly killed and mortally wounded multiple times by mundane weaponry during his battles to build the Empire. He was once stabbed with a regular knife, wielded by a slightly above average human warrior nearly bled to death and was afterward kicked into a river and left to drown. The only reason he didn't die then was because a fisherman saw his body floating downstream and pulled him out, even then he spent a heck of a long time recovering physically and always bore the scar afterward.

Later on in life he builds the Empire, well finishes building it, kills the largest Orc Warboss ever seen, and it's huge Wyvern mount IIRC, goes on to defeat a Chaos incursion as well as various Chaos Warriors and Champions, once again he is still pointed out to be very much mortal and kill-able as he received several wounds during battles. Defeats a Greater Daemon of Khorne (a Bloodthirster capable of soloing small armies on it's own) he had extensive help while doing it though, as well as the blessing of Ulric, the human god of battle as well as wolves and winter. He then later goes on to slay the single most powerful necromancer in the world, Nagash, (think the Lich King but with an Egyptian theme rather than undead viking), granted I'd put Nagash a good two or three tiers above Arthas but once again Sigmar had help. A powerful magical artifact that Nagash wanted for himself, called the Crown of Sorcery, not only did Nagash not want to risk destroying it but it also worked to shield Sigmar from Nagash's power. On top of that it took everything Sigmar had in order to win.

Now granted after he does all of this and then he disappears and ascends to godhood. His godly self would of course crush Varian (I mean duh) which is exactly why he ISN'T IN THIS FIGHT!!!!!!

Mortal Sigmar=/=God Sigmar. Pretty much two completely different characters.

@tparks: Mortal form he doesnt reach universal. Probably planetary or solar system like i said. Whenever nagash attacked him(who can disintegrate star level beings with a touch) it did nothing. Sigmar actually beat him ridiculously easily. He also one hit KO'd a greater daemon, who are planetary level.

@paragonnate: You actually know nothing. Gamesworkshop has said numerous times that the daemons from 40K are the same ones from fantasy. Thats why skarbrand is in fantasy too....They are planetary, the reason they cant destroy it is because of the wards the slaan put around the planet lmao. You remember those old gods who the lizardmen always talk about and worship? Oh wait you dont because you have no idea about warhammer besides the three books you read XD. The old gods placed wards around the planet to protect it from chaos. Thats why only a select few number of daemons can get to the planet not the infinite horde that they are described as in the warp. The slaan maintain the wards. learn some. I said middle aged sigmar. Is when he gets ridiculous. Not the 16 year old. The crown doesnt make you completely immune to magic you idiot. Learn something please. You read three books. it doesnt make you a resident expert. The chaos gods feared nagash. They feared if nagash got his full power back they couldnt stop him. This is why sigmar made him a god in age of sigmar. Dear god. Pretty sure im done here.

Crown of Sorcery, Ulric's blessing, lots of help, still no feats to put him at building level in his mortal life. Context matters.

@redzkz: I did. The book had him fighting Khorne. It didnt say if it was an avatar or not. So we dont know for sure. It couldve been khorne as the chaos gods are about as weak as greater daemons outside the warp.

@noah_ouellette: Oh wait you dont because you have no idea about warhammer besides the three books you read XD. The crown doesnt make you completely immune to magic you idiot.

Personal attacks now? How childish, the mods are just going to love you.

Also I never said I've only just read those three books. I said I've read them, not that they were all I read. Anywho, I'll just let the mods deal with you.

@paragonnate: Context does matter. Which is why im confused you are ignoring it. crown of sorcery doesnt make you immune. To. Magic. Just helps. He didnt have that much help. That elf removed said greater daemons wards but sigmar is the one who instakilled it with his hammer.

@paragonnate: I mean. Stomps are often looked down upon.

Crown of Sorcery, plus the fact that Nagash wanted the crown for himself and didn't want to accidentally destroy it and so held back on Sigmar.

Insults and personal attacks are looked down upon even more. Also one person insisting that a match is a stomp doesn't make it so. You have provided absolutely no evidence showing that Sigmar is building level in his mortal life, much less planetary+ level like you keep claiming. He gets cut, mortally wounded and left to die by a regular knife and various other perfectly normal weapons and events that would threaten a normal human. He bears scars from normal weapons wielded by fellow mortals.

Once again God Sigmar=/=Mortal Sigmar. One is a man who achieved great deeds through amazing skill and mental capability, as well as no small amount of help and divine favor. The other has ascended beyond being mortal and is now a god who is immensely powerful. Which is why, God Sigmar isn't here it's just plain old flesh and blood Sigmar with Ghal Maraz and his regular armor. No blessing from Ulric, no Crown of Sorcery, nothing else, just him.

Re-read the book then. Because at no point Aenarion stand up to Khorne. If you want to prove me wrong post this feat then.

Sigmar Heldenhammer is from the warhammer mythos as the Warrior God of all humans, and later the savior of as all mortal/immortal races.

Though he wasn't born a god, he was born a man to the Ubergoen Tribe. His mother died in child birth while fighting orcs. From the baptism of orc blood his father reclaimed the infant Sigmar.

He would grow up in a hostile cold Celtic Tribal type environment. His tribe constantly fought other barbaric humans, twisted beastmen (basically an army of minotaurs), and hulking barbaric orcs (savage creatures who live for destruction, the weakest orc can lift a grown man with one arm and throw him like a boy discarding a broken play thing).

At the age of 15 the tribe considered their boys to be men (as average life expectancy was around 40-50 years at most) Sigmar began to see combat as a Soldier, in a huge fight against the orcs the dwarven King was about die against the biggest and most savage orc (likely around the size and strength of a rhinoceros). Sigmar took the hammer of the king (Ghal-mraz, a warhammer fashioned out of a comet/meteorite) and killed the beast.

Indebted, the king let Sigmar keep the hammer.

Then, still 15 years old, sigmar became the general of his tribe and lead a military campaign that ended the Ork threat that had plagued all races in their realm since before he was a child, finally accomplishing what his ancestors could not.

Then sigmar grew tired of the war and death cycle his kin had participated in for centuries and forcibly united the entire human population through a series of incredible feats:

-Combating many infamous warrior chieftains (remember this is an age of brute force and might, so these Kings are no joke some even had magical elf blades)

-climbed a large mountain with no gear then fought the impressive warrior king and beat him.

-killing a city destroying Dragon Oger (which is as messed up as it sounds)

-choking the fury from a legendary berserker.

While his empire is still being established he is forced to fight the orks as a new band has emerged bigger than ever. He pulls a battle of Thermopylae and fights at a place called blackfire pass where the orcs numbers cannot be brought to full advantage. After days of fighting and the death of a friend Sigmar is frustrated, he takes his leaders atop the mountain to oversee the battle, then tells then to watch and learn and jumps off the mountain deep behind enemy lines and begins killing hundreds of orcs. The orcs leader is so impressed he jumps on a wyvern and flies to sigmar to fight him. While still surrounded by millions of orcs, sigmar kills the wyvern then kills the orc warboss. His men are so inspired they push hard and eradicate every last orc.

After his empire is established he is attacked by chaos, an army from the north empowered by evil gods.

The basic chaos unit is a mutated barbarian with augmentations to strength and magic, or just a host of demons, the basic commander is an ancient demon empowered horror who barely remembers being human and lives solely to please his gods.

Sigmar topped all of his previous feats here but his two best are:

1. There is a demon called Skulltaker who is millennia old, he spends his time harassing legendary warriors until they agree to fight him in fair open combat. Skulltaker then beats them, steals their skull, and adds their strength to his. After millennia of gathering the strengths of legendary heroes and never losing a combat to any foe be they man, dwarf, orc, elf or demon, he is excited to challenge Sigmar. They fight for three days until Sigmar caves Skulltaker's head in sending the foul beast back to hell. When Skulltaker reforms and begins his crusades for the next 40,000+ millennia he is never beaten ever again, even versus divine enchanted futuristic super soldier demon hunters.

2. Sigmar is being attacked by a large force of chaos, his men are beaten and weary but holding. The walls of his fortress are holding for weeks. Finally a giant demon emerges for chaos, it rips the walls apart with ease and the warriors who are next to this thing are driven instantly insane and the ground around the demon is warped and corrupted by the very presence of his evil. Sigmar stands strong and fights this thing one on one as an equal, each one unable to beat the other until finally the demon is distracted and Sigmar uses the opportunity to slay him with one strike.

I should add that instead of growing old and useless, Sigmar finished establishing his empire, saw the peace of his kin, then said "good luck!" and strolled through a hell gate to find the chaos gods and kill them . His time in there isn't recorded but we can see that he eventually somehow became a god and began kicking evil god teeth. I don't think any other mortal hero can top this...

All info is here: http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Sigmar

Varian curbstomp, In wow you basically have to be a bodybuilder to lift 15 foot mountains and run at ftl in order to survive, Also just off the picture Varian would win because that is the Scion of Goldrinn Varian. Goldrinn would also GUT Sigmar, he is capable of taking on near 50,000 demons at once and going out without a scratch.

Bump

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Lmfao at Sigmar soloing wow.

He pretty much stomps here though

@decaf_wizard: Mortal Sigmar stomps Varian? Never saw him do anything in his novel series that would make me think that.

Bump

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Sigmar should win.

@redzkz: reasons?

Mortal Sigmar shouldn't be winning.

But current God Sigmar would be stomping since Ghal Maraz could stomp continent-sized Godbeasts.

Bump, also, @wut

@paragonnate: Eh...

Mortal Sigmar Pre-Nagash < Varian Wrynn

Sigmar Nagash-Fight (Where he had the crown and wore his dwarf forged armor) >= Varian

Sigmar Ascended (End Times) > Varian Wrynn

AoS Sigmar >>>>>>> Varian

Ahahahahahaha

Mortal Sigmar is coming nowhere close to soloing WoW.

Ok

Sigmar would never use that crown in character, knowing what it does. But I would say that Mortal Sigmar would be quite a bit above Varian.

@decaf_wizard: I was taking him at different stages of his life. Such as during his fight with Nagash where he wore both the crown and armor to defeat Nagash which would be the 'strongest' incarnation of mortal Sigmar.

Variant is a better character but sigmas wins the fight

Peak Sigmar tears him apart with ease. Sigmar as of black fire pass wins in a good fight

Generally I'd put varian closer to modern warriors like Ludwig, Kurt, and Franz