@arkhamasylum3: The fact is though Sheev couldn't overwhelm Galen.
Except he was overwhelming him. It's not debatable; it's even emphasised in the novel:
The pain was incredible, searing every nerve back to its individual cells, skewering each of them on white-hot needles. He had never before felt anything like this. He wanted to recoil from the source, to curl into a ball and let unconsciousness take the pain away, but somehow he stayed standing, seeing the world through a crackling blue light, and even took a step toward the Emperor.
"Go!" he hissed at Kota. "Hurry!"
The general hesitated only for a moment. He, too, had seen a glimpse of the future, the apprentice remembered. He knew that it came down to a simple choice: him and the Rebels or the apprentice and darkness forever. Gathering up the Rebels, Kola ushered them toward the descending ship.
Another staggering, painful step and the Emperor was within the apprentice's reach. With shaking fingers, he took the old man's bony shoulders in his hands and gripped them tight. The Sith lightning spread to engulf the two of them, fueled by both their desperations. The Emperor tipped back his head and howled in lascivious pain. Darkness threatened to envelop the apprentice's mind, but he clutched to consciousness with feverish will. He had to see this through. He had to.
Whether or not Galen was hard pressed by Sheev is irrelevant as both Mace and Yoda were also being overwhelmed by Sheev's lightning
Of course it matters. Galen's best defences were failing to protect him from the brunt of Sidious' lightning, whereas Mace was holding off lightning from an enraged Sidious and Yoda was actually managing to match the lightning the whole time. Did he struggle? Sure, because he's essentially Sidious' equal. It's the same way that the Son and Daughter were clearly straining themselves to overwhelm the other in the same kind of Force battle.
yet still held on with Yoda actually turning the tables towards the end of their engagement and legitimately pressing Sheev.
Ok? No one argues that Yoda isn't Sheev's near-equal or equal in the Force. Not seeing the relevance unless you're portraying Galen as Yoda tier or approaching it.
How much damage was done to him is totally irrelevant
But it does. The point of the argument was that it was a pain tolerance feat more than anything. If Starkiller's best defences were being quickly overwhelmed by Sidious' lightning (between 10-30 seconds in all likelihood at best), it's not really better or equal to Yoda stalemating Sheev's lightning or an exhausted Mace who can factually compete with the Emperor holding off his lightning for a good deal of time.
and it doesn't indicate any disparity between Galen and Sheev given Yoda basically went through the exact same ordeal in ROTS yet still proved equal to Palpatine
Yoda was actually blocking the lightning though and none of it was connecting with him. The same goes for Mace.
(note that I'm not suggesting Galen and Sheev are equals
I'm glad.
but rather that Sheev's lightning pressing him is totally irrelevant given he still blocked it,
He didn't block it, he endured it. There's a distinctive difference between, for example, sticking your hand in a fire while wearing protective equipment and holding your bare hand in the heart of a flame even as it's set alight. Yoda and Mace were more of the former, Galen was the latter.
made Sheev desparate
He made Sheev desperate because he was being hit by his own lightning. The exact same thing happened with Mace:
And the circuit completed itself: the lightning reflected back to its source. Palpatine staggered, snarling, but the blistering energy that loured from his hands only intensified. He fed the power with his pain.
Mace performed the above while exhausted (I'll address the Palpatine's exhaustion argument shortly).
and held onto him for a prolonged period of time causing him to howl with pain).
Except he nearly blacked out after about 5 seconds of doing it and went on to kamikaze him mere seconds later.
His saber did make it considerably easier though.
He used it because it was to hand. Chances are he could have done it with his hands because of the nature of the loop and his own abilities in Force deflection. I agree that it made it easier, but the fact that Mace was exhausted and caught off-guard somewhat mitigates any advantage the lightsaber would have given him.
The fact that a lightsaber can be overwhelmed doesn't prove anything. Take for example Kenobi vs Dooku in AOTC. Despite Kenobi being vastly inferior to Dooku he was able to block the lightning Dooku fired at him effotlessly no less because of his saber advantage.
There's also the massive disparity between Dooku and Sidious' lightning to consider. Dooku might be very powerful but his lightning has never been overly impressive.
Arguing the saber doesn't make a tremendous difference is false.
It's largely mitigated by the factors I mentioned.
Sheev would be arguably just as tired given he also had to compete in a saber duel just prior and the battle between the two was basically a battle of equals meaning Sheev would have used an equal amount of reserves to Mace.
This would be a fair point if there wasn't evidence to suggest otherwise:
Palpatine lifted his head. His eyes smoked with hate. "Fool," he said. He lifted his arms, his robes of office spreading wide into raptor's wings, his hands hooking into talons.
"Fool!" His voice was a shout of thunder. "Do you think the fear you feel is mine?"
Lightning blasted the clouds above, and lightning blasted from Palpatine's hands, and Mace didn't have time to comprehend what Palpatine was talking about; he had time only to slip back into Vaapad and angle his blade to catch the forking arcs of pure, dazzling hatred that clawed toward him.
Regardless of how tiring the duel might have been on Sidious' part, he has the considerable advantage of being able to suddenly boost his power, even when exhausted. We see that happening here in particular. Even if Sheev was as exhausted as Mace, he was clearly enraged by Mace's comments about him being afraid and being defeated by his fear. If anything, Sidious entered a form of Force rage here, which would most likely help to reduce the effects of any exhaustion he experienced from the duel.
We also have to consider that such an amp would boost his currently exhausted powers considerably for a time. We've seen the exact thing happen under similar situations, such as Luke when he quickly overwhelmed Vader. While I don't think anyone would argue that Mace = Sidious, it's heavily implied that a suddenly rejuvenated and pissed off Sheev gave an exhausted Mace only a split-second to react to this lightning. If Sheev was exhausted, his rage and anger would have helped him considerably.
Reagrdless Galen aslo had a split second to prepare himself with him immediately having to jump in front of Kota and basically having no time to prepare himself.
Again, the difference between them is that while Galen most likely had an extra second to put up his defences, Mace only had time to move his blade and slip into Vaapad. As far as the film is concerned, the blade was pretty much right in front of his face at that point, which isn't exactly the most defensive position.
Regardless how long they had to prepare is irrelevant. It's not like raising your lightsaber and slipping into Vapaad is particularly hard.
But putting it in a position to block that lightning in a split second (considering how fast electricity moves and the apparent distance between them) whereby it's in a compromising position vs having an extra second to think to yourself that "the moment of truth had arrived" and put up your defences before willingly stepping in the way is relevant.
Except the bolts weren't touching Galen he was just straining massively from blocking it
Respectfully, you're wilfully ignoring the text:
Without hesitation, he stepped between Kota and the Emperor, taking the full brunt of the Sith lightning into his own body.
The pain was incredible, searing every nerve back to its individual cells, skewering each of them on white-hot needles. He had never before felt anything like this. He wanted to recoil from the source, to curl into a ball and let unconsciousness take the pain away, but somehow he stayed standing, seeing the world through a crackling blue light, and even took a step toward the Emperor.
Even with his defences he was powerless to stop the lightning colliding with him.
which was also the case with Mace. Mace was literally crying out in pain saying he couldn't hold on any longer
Not what he said:
but the blistering energy that loured from his hands only intensified. He fed the power with his pain.
"Anakin!" Mace called. His voice sounded distant, blurred, as if it came from the bottom of a well. "Anakin, help me! This is your chance!"
-
"You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade. "Take him. It's your destiny."
Skywalker echoed him faintly. "Destiny..."
"Help me! I can't hold on any longer!" The yellow glare from Palpatine's eyes spread outward through his flesh. His skin flowed like oil, as though the muscle beneath was burning away, as though even the bones of his skull were softening, were bending and bulging, deforming from the heat and pressure of his electric hatred. "He is killing me, Anakin—! Please, Anaaahhh—"
Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for me—"
Even as an enraged Sheev kept ramping up the power of his lightning, an exhausted Mace was still able to keep any of the lightning from connecting and hold it off for a considerable amount of time. He asked for help because he was not ready for that kind of attack and had no strength left to fight it.
yet with Mace it's not a pain tolerance feat but with Galen it is.
Because it didn't connect. Galen was dying from the lightning whereas Mace was holding if off.
Mace had a massive advantage over Galen what with his saber
While exhausted and holding it in a compromising position.
and dealing with a massively weaker version of Sheev
Who was tapping into his rage to the point that his exhaustion barely seemed to affect him.
yet they performed remarkably similair.
Except they didn't.
Galen>Mace.
No. Galen is very powerful, but he is not prime Mace tier, let alone above him.
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