Uther the Lightbringer Vs. Volkmar the Grim

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shroudofsorrow

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Battle of the bearded, hammer-toting warrior priest/paladin types from epic Fantasy settings. Which one wins? And for obvious reasons, this pre-death/transformation-into-angel Uther.

Fight takes place somewhere in the Sanctuary from Diablo.

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Vs.

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Poor Volkmar really got the short end of the stick in images, didn't he? XD

@cheth, @exmaster3000, @merulezall, @cergic, @spider-simp

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Cheth

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Nah man I love that Volkmar image (although the rest are trash yeah)

Also notifications still won't work

OT: Hard to say. I would argue that Uther is more skilled (being a former knight), but frankly to me Volkmar seems much more beastly powerful, better geared and frankly just much more fanatically zealous. No skill will help you when your opponent can get his brains bashed in and then brand you a heretic before blasting you to the warp

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shroudofsorrow

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#4  Edited By shroudofsorrow

@cheth: I mean, Uther challenged Death Knight Arthas. As I recall you argued that Death Knight Arthas would give Tyrion a decent fight

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Cheth

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Yeah but he lost (rather drastically, as in cinematics Arthas doesn't even look affected nor has taken any damage), and by that route: composite Volkmar challenged Archaon (but got oneshotted).

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shroudofsorrow

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@cheth: Not sure getting one-shotted is "challenging" someone. XD

Hm. If Arthas did better against Uther than I thought, that would bump him up a lot. Most folks I've talked to go with the "Uther nearly killed him" narrative. If it turns out Arthas won more decisively, it would mean I could push back on folks using Uther as an anti-feat against Arthas. :)

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#8 tparks  Online

@shroudofsorrow: @cheth: Both Uther and Arthas had a very tough fight. Arthas was mostly too fast to ever be hit by Uther, but Uther is described as a powerhouse with his hammer swings. It also should be noted that neither of them wanted to kill each other. They were both really conflicted, and there’s a moment where Uther’s holy light dims, showing that he regrets what he needs to do. Also, Uther trained Arthas since he was a kid. They both knew each other very well.

There is a lot of context to their fight, but the way it’s laid out in the novel makes it seem like they’re evenly matched, but that doesn’t necessarily show limits to either character. Like if Uther faced off against a Death Knight that wasn’t Arthas, he would probably wreck him. If Arthas faced off against a Paladin that’s not Uther, he’d probably wreck him. There are great feats for both of them, but had one of them had more conviction, then that side would have won, which kind of does happen, since Froustmourne takes a bit of control from Arthas. The fight starts with Uther crying because he has to try and kill Arthas, who he felt he failed in training, which led to him becoming a Death Knight.

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Cheth

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@tparks: Thanks for correcting me. Only really knew of the video games/cinematics, did not yet know of a lich king novel

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shroudofsorrow

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Well, I'd say being comparable to Death Knight Arthas is a pretty good endorsement, personally.

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#11  Edited By tparks  Online

@cheth: Rise of the Lich King is the novel. It’s not bad, but it references a lot of the events of every WarCraft game and novel that came before it, so it’s not the best for someone who hasn’t read the novels. I’ll post the entire fight in a spoiler block if you want to read just that fight. Copying from kindle doesn’t break up paragraphs, so it’s a little awkward to read.

You can see Arthas ends up dominating once Frostmourne takes over., but before that, Uther is the superior of the two. I left out the exchange of words between the two at the beginning, but it describes them both as emotional and conflicted. I’m pretty sure this fight could have gone the other way if not for Frostmourne causing Arthas to not hold back at all.

“The remark… hurt. Arthas hadn’t expected it to. He paused, emotions warring within him, and Uther, ever the better in their bouts, used that brief hesitation to charge forward. “For the Light!” he cried, pulling the hammer back and swinging it at Arthas with all his strength. The gleaming weapon arced at Arthas so swiftly he could hear the sound of its movement. He leaped aside, barely in time, and felt the air brush his face as the weapon rushed past. Uther’s expression was calm and focused… and deadly. It was his duty as he saw it to slay the betraying son, and stop the spread of evil. Just as Arthas knew it was his duty to slay the man who had once mentored him. He needed to kill his past… all of his past. Or else it would forever reach out with the deceptively sweet hope of compassion and forgiveness. With an incoherent cry, Arthas brought Frostmourne down. Uther’s hammer blocked it. The two men strained, their faces within inches of each other, the muscles in their arms shaking with effort, until with a grunt Uther shoved Arthas backward. The younger man stumbled. Uther pressed the attack. His face was calm, but his eyes were fierce and resolute, and he seemed to fight as if his victory was inevitable. The utter confidence shook Arthas. His own blows were powerful, but erratic. He’d never been able to best Uther before—“It ends here, boy!” Uther cried, his voice ringing. Suddenly to Arthas’s horror the paladin was limned in a glowing, brilliant light. Not just his hammer, but his entire body, as if he himself was the true weapon of the Light that would strike Arthas down. “For the Light’s justice!” The hammer descended. All the air in Arthas’s body was knocked out of him with a rush as the blow landed straight and true across his midsection. Only his armor saved him, and even that crumpled beneath the glowing hammer wielded by the holy, radiant paladin. Arthas went sprawling, Frostmourne flying from his grip, agony shooting through him as he struggled to breathe, struggled to rise. The Light—he had turned his back on it, had betrayed it. And now it was exacting retribution through Uther the Lightbringer, its greatest champion, infusing his old teacher with the purity of its brilliance and purpose. The glow enveloping Uther increased, and Arthas grimaced in agony as the Light seared his eyes as well as his soul. He’d been wrong to forsake it, horribly wrong, and now its mercy and love had been transformed into this radiant, implacable being. He stared upward into the white light that was Uther’s eyes, tears filling his own as he awaited the killing blow. Had he grasped the sword without realizing it, or had it leaped into his hands of its own volition? In the swirling mental chaos that was that moment, Arthas could not tell. All he knew was that suddenly, his hands were closing on Frostmourne’s hilt, and its voice was in his mind. Every Light has its shadow—every day has its night—and even the brightest candle can be snuffed out. And so can the brightest life. He let out a gulping inhalation, sucking breath into his lungs, and for just a second, Arthas saw the Light enveloping Uther dim. Then Uther lifted the hammer again, ready to deal the killing blow. But Arthas was not there. If Uther was a bear, enormous and powerful, Arthas was a tiger, strong and coiled and swift. The hammer, strong and Light-blessed though it and its weilder might be, was not a fast weapon, nor was Uther’s style of fighting. Frostmourne, however, though it was an enormous two handed runeblade, seemed to almost be able to fight on its own. He moved forward again, no hesitancy this time, and began to fight in earnest. He gave no quarter as he attacked Uther the Lightbringer; offered no moment’s breathing space for the paladin to draw back the weapon to deliver a crushing blow. Uther’s eyes widened with shock, then narrowed in determination. But the Light that had once surged so brightly from his powerful frame was diminishing with each passing second. Diminishing before the power granted to him by the Lich King. Again and again Frostmourne landed—here on the hammer’s glowing head, here on the shaft, here on Uther’s shoulder, in that narrow space between gorget and shoulder pauldrons, biting deep—Uther grunted and staggered back. Blood poured from the wound. Frostmourne craved more, and Arthas wanted to give it more. Snarling like a beast, his white hair flying, he pressed the attack. The hammer, great and glowing, fell from Uther’s nerveless fingers as Frostmourne nearly severed the arm. A blow dented Uther’s breastplate; a second in the same spot cleaved it and tore at the flesh beneath. Uther’s tabard, the blue and gold of the Alliance he had once fought for, fluttered to the snow-covered earth in pieces as Uther the Lightbringer fell heavily to his knees. He looked up. His breathing came with difficulty. Blood trickled from his mouth, seeping into his beard, but there was no hint of surrender on his face. “I dearly hope that there’s a special place in hell waiting for you, Arthas.” He coughed, the blood bubbling up. “We may never know, Uther,” Arthas said coldly, lifting Frostmourne for the final blow. The sword nearly sang in anticipation. “I intend to live forever.” He brought the runeblade straight down, through Uther’s throat, silencing the defiant words, piercing the great heart. Uther died almost immediately. Arthas tugged the blade free and stepped back, shaking. Surely, it was only from the release of tension and exultation.”

— World of Warcraft: Arthas: Rise of the Lich King by Christie Golden

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Cheth

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Reading the fight posted by tparks makes me believe that both Uther and Volkmar would just charge up ultra-attacks from their divine until they both fully vaporize the other at the same time lmfao

On an unrelated note; am I the only who thinks its hard to look at both the dialogue of the Warcraft games for this fight and then the novel fight? Arthas didn't seem very emotional in the game lol

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#13  Edited By tparks  Online

@cheth: They we’re kind of limited to what they could show for that kind of stuff in WC3, and even still in WoW. Metzen wanted basically every scene in WC3 to be more in depth and a cinematic, but that was impossible at that time. Apparently tons had to be cut, and the novels kind of pick up the slack. ReForged was supposed to redo these moments as full cutscenes, but we all saw how that dumpster fire turned out. Lol

If there’s any differences between the books and the games, I put priority on the games, but that scene could have been replaced by what happens in the book, and it wouldn’t change anything, only give more detail.

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Cheth

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@tparks said:

@cheth: They we’re kind of limited to what they could show for that kind of stuff in WC3, and even still in WoW. Metzen wanted basically every scene in WC3 to be more in depth and a cinematic, but that was impossible at that time. Apparently tons had to be cut, and the novels kind of pick up the slack. ReForged was supposed to redo these moments as full cutscenes, but we all saw how that dumpster fire turned out. Lol

If there’s any differences between the books and the games, I put priority on the games, but that scene could have been replaced by what happens in the book, and it wouldn’t change anything, only give more detail.

I moreso meant the fact that Arthas seemed pretty cold and unfeeling before the fight in the game lol. But yeah sadly multiple things had to be cut short, iirc the fight between illidan and Arthas was also supposed to be longer

Yeah I def agree, I think nothing in the game contradicts this fight. Just found the comparisons funny

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Siding with Uther.

@tparks: @cheth: When I last discussed this with another viner a year or two back. I think Uther had the upper hand was out dueling Arthas as a whole until plot kicked in which was obvious. Much like a Darth Maul vs Obi wan fight where Maul had Obi wan dead to right, but plot allowed Obi wan to obviously keep on going. I think witht his fight it was the same way. Sure uther was slow but his skill made up for it. Both were not in the right mindset, but I think Uther was more affected while Arthas had his master there to whisper in his ear and make him care less and along with the light fizzing out for a minute gave Arthas the upper hand. I do believe without plot Uther would of beaten Arthas.

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#16  Edited By tparks  Online

@merulezall: Ya. Arthas is definitely more powerful with being amped by Frostmourne, but Uther is supposed to be a highly skilled and powerful Paladin. With how powerful Paladins get in WoW, it’s nice to see Uther being shown to be able to be superior to Arthas. I do think it’s fair for Arthas to win though. Frostmourne has it’s own inherent skill, and can actually fight for Arthas, so it’s not necessarily PIS that Arthas won. He was arguably holding Frostmourne back, but when the blade takes over, it kind of makes sense that Arthas was able to win. He’s definitely faster. The fight with Illidan, and it’s samurai style blink and you missed it kill, shows how fast he is. Uther is not described as being speedy, but slow and technical.

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shroudofsorrow

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Personally, I don't think the game necessarily has to take precedence over the novelization. I view the latter as a supplement for the former rather than a substitute, so extra/elaborated on feats should be considered valid.

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MordhauExtreme1

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Possibly siding with Uther due to magic, skill should be similar since they both are good at clearing each other's fodder, and the few fights that the two had I might give Uther the lead due to the fact Volkmar in Storm of Chaos got one shotted and in End Times was spanked again by vampire counts and undead, so.... yeah