USJ Nomu vs High End Hood

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rizaadxn

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USJ Nomu

No Caption Provided

Vs

High End - Hood

No Caption Provided

Rules

  • No prep
  • Win by death
  • Manga feats/scaling
  • In character with intent to win
  • USJ Nomu has been ordered to kill Hood

Location

  • Begin visible
  • Begin 50 meters apart
  • Fight takes place here: Deika City - Unpopulated
No Caption Provided

Rounds

Round 1:

USJ Nomu

Vs

High End Hood

Seen a lot of people in the general MHA community say that Hood is way too powerful in comparison to USJ Nomu so I wanted to see what the Vine thinks.

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lichvanastrea

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Hood stomps. It’s literally established the High-Ends are more powerful than the previous Nomu.

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rizaadxn

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@lichvanastrea said:

Hood stomps. It’s literally established the High-Ends are more powerful than the previous Nomu.

This is what I see a lot of people saying but by feats and scaling I just can't agree. The only reason why HE are classified as being above the previous Nomu is due to intelligence and Hoods intelligence isn't even all there tbh.

Show me a HE Nomu taking a direct hit to the brain that is on the level of All Mights punches and being completely unscathed by it. You can't.

USJ Nomu took a Carolina Smash to the brain along with another direct hit to the brain and it was undamaged. Not only that but by scaling, the All Might that fought Nomu was stronger than the AM that fought AFO in season 3, said version of All Might could destroy city blocks with his punches. So USJ Nomu took over 300 punches that should be above, or at least at that level, before his Shock Absorption quirk overloaded. It would likely take thousands of hits for Hoody to overload his Shock Absorption.

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lichvanastrea

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@rizaadxn said:

@lichvanastrea said:

Hood stomps. It’s literally established the High-Ends are more powerful than the previous Nomu.

This is what I see a lot of people saying but by feats and scaling I just can't agree. The only reason why HE are classified as being above the previous Nomu is due to intelligence and Hoods intelligence isn't even all there tbh.

That's not true. Yes, the High-Ends are dangerous for their intelligence, but what makes them even more dangerous is the fact that they have up to six different Quirks and far superior regeneration.

Show me a HE Nomu taking a direct hit to the brain that is on the level of All Mights punches and being completely unscathed by it. You can't.

I can't prove that with feats, yes. But it doesn't matter anyways since Ujiko states their stats surpass the Upper Tiers vastly regardless.

What I can prove however is that blunt force alone cannot kill Hood. You need something like Endeavor's flames to shut down his cells, otherwise he'll just continue to regenerate from his head.

USJ Nomu took a Carolina Smash to the brain along with another direct hit to the brain and it was undamaged.

The Carolina Smash hit him in the chest, not the brain. And that was the only time.

Not only that but by scaling, the All Might that fought Nomu was stronger than the AM that fought AFO in season 3, said version of All Might could destroy city blocks with his punches. So USJ Nomu took over 300 punches that should be above, or at least at that level, before his Shock Absorption quirk overloaded. It would likely take thousands of hits for Hoody to overload his Shock Absorption.

The only reason why that Nomu could even take those hits to begin with is because it was specifically designed to match and counter against All Might and so it was given abilities such as Shock Absorption. All Might wasn't even going all out up until the point where he was running out of time. The moment All Might was going all out, that Nomu clearly couldn't keep up with him anymore. And the thing is, Shock Absorption is practically useless here since Hood can pierce through skin with his limbs.

Ultimately however, the USJ Nomu is just a brick. Most of its abilities are designed around taking characters that dish out blunt force, but Hood has abilities such as his limb extension and flight that allows him to keep his distance and not having to rely on blunt force alone.

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jashro44

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The High-End generally speaking are stronger than Nomu generally speaking. However I think we can say the one that fought All Might in the USJ was an exception/outlier among the other Nomu.

On the other hand Nomu was made specifically to fight All Might. Basically meant to be a anti-all might. I can see it going either way since Hood has other powers and is smarter. However a lot of Hood's powers are just different variations of blunt force. Not sure if either could put the other down but I guess Nomu has the edge.

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rizaadxn

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@lichvanastrea said:

That's not true. Yes, the High-Ends are dangerous for their intelligence, but what makes them even more dangerous is the fact that they have up to six different Quirks and far superior regeneration.

The majority of Hoods quirks aren't even that good. Super Regeneration, Muscle Augmentation and his Jet Shoulders are his top quirks. There is no evidence of the Super Regeneration being any better than the previous versions, it's even called the exact same thing.

I can't prove that with feats, yes. But it doesn't matter anyways since Ujiko states their stats surpass the Upper Tiers vastly regardless.

What I can prove however is that blunt force alone cannot kill Hood. You need something like Endeavor's flames to shut down his cells, otherwise he'll just continue to regenerate from his head.

It's pretty obvious that USJ Nomu is not the typical Upper Tier Black Nomu, he's a specially built Anti-All Might Nomu with the power to match him, just about.

In the most recent chapter, one of the HE had to defend its brain from Endeavor's punch by growing extra bones with its quirk, Miruko also partially destroyed the brain of one of them, to which she mentioned her kick was too shallow and it regenerated, she then proceeds to rip the head of the Armour HE off its body and crush its brain with a kick, to which it died.

It's evident that if enough of the brain of a HE is destroyed, whether it is with cellular carbonization or out right crushing it with enough blunt force that the brain of a HE Nomu can be destroyed via blunt force and it will kill them.

That's the anime for you, always changing shit. As seen here, Nomu is hit in the brain with a Carolina Smash and a separate direct punch in the second scan:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

It's clear that Nomu takes zero damage from either of these attacks directly on his brain.

The only reason why that Nomu could even take those hits to begin with is because it was specifically designed to match and counter against All Might and so it was given abilities such as Shock Absorption. All Might wasn't even going all out up until the point where he was running out of time. The moment All Might was going all out, that Nomu clearly couldn't keep up with him anymore. And the thing is, Shock Absorption is practically useless here since Hood can pierce through skin with his limbs.

Shock Absorption allowed Nomu to take direct blows to the brain without taking damage, meanwhile HE Nomu can still have their brains crushed with blunt force.

I mean, using a named attack seems like a pretty serious move to use and although Nomu might not have been able to keep up with All Might after that clash of over 300 punches, does it really matter here? All Might is so vastly above Hoody that it doesn't really help that Nomu could take over 300 blows, each of which were at a level capable of destroying city-blocks, before his absorption quirk overloaded. As I said, it would likely take Hoody thousands of blows to overload his Shock Absorption.

Hoods ability to pierce skin is not too much to worry about here considering Nomu has the same Healing Factor as he does.

Ultimately however, the USJ Nomu is just a brick. Most of its abilities are designed around taking characters that dish out blunt force, but Hood has abilities such as his limb extension and flight that allows him to keep his distance and not having to rely on blunt force alone.

Considering how Nomu was built to be All Mights equal, it's not too far'fetched to assume he can jump and 'fly' in a similar way to All Might. It's also not in character for Hoody to opt for long distance fighting, rather choosing to fight up close and if he grabs his enemy he'll fling them around with his augmented arms. It's clear that not only was Hoods base human not the smartest out there but when Hood gets too hyped with his 'STRONGER, MORE' thing, his mind breaks and he becomes animalistic, losing all traits of an intelligent being.

There's also the fact that Nomu scales to All Might in speed which should make him faster. It probably isn't enough to warrant a blitz but Hoody isn't gonna get to fling Nomu around the same way he did with Endeavor and any hits that Nomu lands on Hoody will likely destroy his limbs, though they'll regenerate, a direct brain hit would splatter it instantly due to the lack of Shock Absorption.

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lichvanastrea

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@rizaadxn said:

The majority of Hoods quirks aren't even that good. Super Regeneration, Muscle Augmentation and his Jet Shoulders are his top quirks.

Muscle Augmentation, Jet Shoulders and Transforming Arms are all he needs really.

There is no evidence of the Super Regeneration being any better than the previous versions, it's even called the exact same thing.

What makes you say that? The USJ Nomu has only shown to be able to regenerate his limbs and nothing else. Hood on the other hand can regenerate from almost anything, as long as his head remains intact.

And it shouldn't be a surprised anyways since again, the High-Ends are established as the most powerful variations of the Nomu. Idk why Hood would have the same regen, instead of an improved one.

It's pretty obvious that USJ Nomu is not the typical Upper Tier Black Nomu, he's a specially built Anti-All Might Nomu with the power to match him, just about.

There's only been about two Upper Tier Nomu, so I don't know what you mean by he's not the "typical Upper Tier".

In the most recent chapter, one of the HE had to defend its brain from Endeavor's punch by growing extra bones with its quirk, Miruko also partially destroyed the brain of one of them, to which she mentioned her kick was too shallow and it regenerated, she then proceeds to rip the head of the Armour HE off its body and crush its brain with a kick, to which it died.

It's evident that if enough of the brain of a HE is destroyed, whether it is with cellular carbonization or out right crushing it with enough blunt force that the brain of a HE Nomu can be destroyed via blunt force and it will kill them.

That's not a weakness among just the High-Ends though, that's a weakness for all the Nomu. It's how Stain killed with the Winged Nomu and how Endeavor killed the black one in Hosu.

And even then, what are the chances of the USJ Nomu figuring that out and being able to get close enough to rip and crush Hood's head?

That's the anime for you, always changing shit. As seen here, Nomu is hit in the brain with a Carolina Smash and a separate direct punch in the second scan:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

That wasn't a Carolina Smash though.

It's clear that Nomu takes zero damage from either of these attacks directly on his brain.

Because of its Shock Absorption.

Shock Absorption allowed Nomu to take direct blows to the brain without taking damage, meanwhile HE Nomu can still have their brains crushed with blunt force.

He was taking direct blows from an All Might that wasn't going all out initially. Also, you seem to be forgetting that Shock Absorption has a limit to it and that the Nomu can't handle absorb every attack. With enough power, it's possible to destroy his head.

But even then, he doesn't need to do that. He can decapitate his head off and that would be it, seeing that there's no suggestion the Nomu would regenerate from its head alone. Or if that was indeed the case, then Hood can go ahead and crush his head.

I mean, using a named attack seems like a pretty serious move to use and although Nomu might not have been able to keep up with All Might after that clash of over 300 punches, does it really matter here?

It does actually because it shows he's not actually on par with All Might's actual strength and speed, only with a held back one.

All Might is so vastly above Hoody that it doesn't really help that Nomu could take over 300 blows, each of which were at a level capable of destroying city-blocks, before his absorption quirk overloaded. As I said, it would likely take Hoody thousands of blows to overload his Shock Absorption.

The thing is, none of that matters, because Hood can simply decapitate him. Like I said, that Nomu was designed to tank blunt forces from All Might. But nothing suggests it has great piercing durability. Tomura even states in that scan you posted that if you want to do damage to the Nomu, you'll have to rip him apart.

Hoods ability to pierce skin is not too much to worry about here considering Nomu has the same Healing Factor as he does.

It doesn't matter anyways since Hood can either fling him around or just go in for the head.

Considering how Nomu was built to be All Mights equal, it's not too far'fetched to assume he can jump and 'fly' in a similar way to All Might.

The Nomu wasn't made to be All Might's equal, it was made to be his counter. Tomura states he's a Nomu that's essentially designed to be a punching bag for All Might. And while I have no doubt that the Nomu can jump high, it's not like Hood is just going to stand there floating.

It's also not in character for Hoody to opt for long distance fighting, rather choosing to fight up close and if he grabs his enemy he'll fling them around with his augmented arms.

Maybe not long, but it is in character for him to keep his distance.

No Caption Provided

It's clear that not only was Hoods base human not the smartest out there

Hood is no genius level intellect, but he's clearly not dumb either. Endeavor noted throughout the battle how preceptive and tactical Hood was, sending out weaker Nomu to deal with the fodder heroes, being able to see that Endeavor's Quirk was overheating him and ripped his head off from his body so he could regenerate a whole new one and prevent his head from being destroyed.

but when Hood gets too hyped with his 'STRONGER, MORE' thing, his mind breaks and he becomes animalistic, losing all traits of an intelligent being.

That just means he's becoming more bloodlusted, which actually makes him more dangerous than he already was.

There's also the fact that Nomu scales to All Might in speed which should make him faster. It probably isn't enough to warrant a blitz but Hoody isn't gonna get to fling Nomu around the same way he did with Endeavor

Yet according to Ujiko, their stats surpass beyond the previous Nomu, so by scaling, Hood should be faster. Even if you didn't include that, he's able to keep with up with Hawks, who's one of the fastest heroes in the series.

and any hits that Nomu lands on Hoody will likely destroy his limbs, though they'll regenerate, a direct brain hit would splatter it instantly due to the lack of Shock Absorption.

Like I said previously, all Hood really needs to do is decapitate his head.

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rizaadxn

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@lichvanastrea said:

Muscle Augmentation, Jet Shoulders and Transforming Arms are all he needs really.

He's gonna need that Super Regeneration too considering his limbs are gonna get one punched, just like how Endeavor's casual jet burn destroyed his limbs. Hoods durability ain't that great.

What makes you say that? The USJ Nomu has only shown to be able to regenerate his limbs and nothing else. Hood on the other hand can regenerate from almost anything, as long as his head remains intact.

And it shouldn't be a surprised anyways since again, the High-Ends are established as the most powerful variations of the Nomu. Idk why Hood would have the same regen, instead of an improved one.

The fact that the name of said quirk is the exact same and it has never been stated that the regeneration of a HE is better than the previous Super Regeneration.

Only his limbs were destroyed, there's no reason to assume that USJ Nomu couldn't regenerate from just a head, it is the same regeneration quirk after all.

There's only been about two Upper Tier Nomu, so I don't know what you mean by he's not the "typical Upper Tier".

It's stated that the Upper Tier Nomu are at least at the strength of 10 average humans. The Black Nomu that Endeavor defeated in season 2 was one of those Nomu who should've been at least the strength of 10 average humans.

So there were 2 black Nomu, 1 of them was built to be as strong as All Might, be a direct counter to him and kill him, the other gave some fodder Pro Hero's some trouble and was defeated off screen by Endeavor. The anime shows what happened but it's evident that Horikoshi has retconned Endeavor since then, his powerset shown in the season 2 is completely different and not only was non of that shown in the manga but the anime had him use blue fire, to which he's never replicated since, anime or manga. Not even Plus Ultra Prominence Burn was blue in temperature.

So it's pretty clear that the Black Nomu in Hosu is the typical one and that USJ Nomu is an exception, specially built to be as strong as All Might and counter him. AFO even says this when Shiggy asks for more Nomu so he could start his attack on Hosu:

No Caption Provided

And the way AFO says it here really makes it seem like Shigaraki doesn't even know much about Nomu's, he was likely told that USJ Nomu is strong enough to defeat All Might, told him the quirks and then let him play out his attack on the USJ.

That's not a weakness among just the High-Ends though, that's a weakness for all the Nomu. It's how Stain killed with the Winged Nomu and how Endeavor killed the black one in Hosu.

And even then, what are the chances of the USJ Nomu figuring that out and being able to get close enough to rip and crush Hood's head?

No shit, yet USJ Nomu can't have it's brain destroyed by blunt force due to Shock Absorption and it has Super Regeneration meaning its brain can heal if not fully destroyed by other type of attacks. Stain killed a white Nomu which has no regeneration so its irrelevant here, and the Black Hosu Nomu had to have its brain carbonised via heat which is also irrelevant here.

Rules are that USJ Nomu has been told to kill Hood, if the killing move is to destroy the brain then that's what he's gonna do.

That wasn't a carolina smash though

Huh?

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No Caption Provided

One Carolina smash and one ordinary smash, just like I said...

It's clear that Nomu takes zero damage from either of these attacks directly on his brain.

Because of its Shock Absorption.

Yeah... I literally said that

No Caption Provided

He was taking direct blows from an All Might that wasn't going all out initially. Also, you seem to be forgetting that Shock Absorption has a limit to it and that the Nomu can't handle absorb every attack. With enough power, it's possible to destroy his head.

As I said, using a named attack seems like a pretty serious thing, not only that but All Might is testing to see whether his punches truly aren't effective on Nomu, to which he's suprised implying he wasn't holding his punches back.

He literally says 'seriously?' with a suprised face and the sfx *quiver* when Nomu went unfazed by Carolina Smash, there'd be no reason to say that he was pulling his punches.

"Also, you seem to be forgetting that Shock Absorption has a limit to it and that the Nomu can't handle absorb every attack." Ummm, no I literally mention how it can be overloaded yet it would likely take Hoody thousands of blows to do so:

No Caption Provided

But even then, he doesn't need to do that. He can decapitate his head off and that would be it, seeing that there's no suggestion the Nomu would regenerate from its head alone. Or if that was indeed the case, then Hood can go ahead and crush his head.

If there's a difference between the regeneration of HE & Black Nomu, and USJ Nomu having his head decapitated would kill him then explain this; why did Endeavor have to carbonise the head of the Hosu Nomu?

It's because the head is the core part where the regeneration starts from. Had the entire head not been carbonised the brain would be able to regenerate and so would it's body, had it been destroyed. Endeavor states that carbonised cells can't regenerate, he carbonised the brain of the Hosu Nomu and guess what? It couldn't regenerate which directly implies that the brain of the Black Nomu can also regenerate, had he not carbonised it.

Which makes sense considering they have the same Super Regeneration quirk, same name and all. So yes, if Hoody decapitated USJ Nomu it would regenerate from just the head, that's saying if Hoody would even have the opportunity to decapitate Nomu to begin with.

I mean, using a named attack seems like a pretty serious move to use and although Nomu might not have been able to keep up with All Might after that clash of over 300 punches, does it really matter here?

It does actually because it shows he's not actually on par with All Might's actual strength and speed, only with a held back one.

Hmm? No it doesn't, because Hoody is nowhere near the level of All Might. And as I've explained already, All Might wasn't pulling his punches with Carolina smash, to which he literally quivered in fear when Nomu went unfazed by it.

All Might is so vastly above Hoody that it doesn't really help that Nomu could take over 300 blows, each of which were at a level capable of destroying city-blocks, before his absorption quirk overloaded. As I said, it would likely take Hoody thousands of blows to overload his Shock Absorption.

The thing is, none of that matters, because Hood can simply decapitate him. Like I said, that Nomu was designed to tank blunt forces from All Might. But nothing suggests it has great piercing durability. Tomura even states in that scan you posted that if you want to do damage to the Nomu, you'll have to rip him apart.

I've already explained how decapitating USJ Nomu won't matter above. Can you also show me a scene with Hoody decapitating someone? No, because despite having some degree of cutting attacks he never decapitated Endeavor which he could've easily done. Also, while Hood has some degree of cutting attacks so does USJ Nomu, we saw how he easily pierced All Might with his claws. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Nomu could crush Hoods brain just on pure gripping strength.

I never understood that line, Tomura states it'd be best to gouge out his skin piece by piece and the next thing we know a few pages later is that Nomu has Super Regeneration, so yeah, good luck doing that when it's gonna be constantly regenerating. Either Shigaraki is dumb af or Horikoshi is just bad at consistent writing.

Hoods ability to pierce skin is not too much to worry about here considering Nomu has the same Healing Factor as he does.

It doesn't matter anyways since Hood can either fling him around or just go in for the head.

Like I said, his ability to pierce doesn't matter. If Nomu is decapitated he can regenerate to the same degree as Hood. Hood isn't gonna get to fling Nomu around like he did with Endeavor, Nomu would easily get out of his grasp considering he had enough strength to hold All Might in place, that's if Hood could even tag Nomu to begin with seeing as Nomu is equal to All Might in speed, if not slightly under.

Nomu was built to be All Mights equal, it's not too far'fetched to assume he can jump and 'fly' in a similar way to All Might.

The Nomu wasn't made to be All Might's equal, it was made to be his counter. Tomura states he's a Nomu that's essentially designed to be a punching bag for All Might. And while I have no doubt that the Nomu can jump high, it's not like Hood is just going to stand there floating.

No Caption Provided

"After all the trouble we went through to make him as strong as All Might" words from Dr Ujiko himself, who had the help of AFO directly, and seeing as these are the same guys behind the Villain Factory in Vigilantes, they've been working on the Nomu for at least half a decade.

Maybe not long, but it is in character for him to keep his distance.

No Caption Provided

It's not that he's keeping his distance from Endeavor, he's just able to babyshake him because Endeavor is not strong enough.

It's clear that not only was Hoods base human not the smartest out there

Hood is no genius level intellect, but he's clearly not dumb either. Endeavor noted throughout the battle how preceptive and tactical Hood was, sending out weaker Nomu to deal with the fodder heroes, being able to see that Endeavor's Quirk was overheating him and ripped his head off from his body so he could regenerate a whole new one and prevent his head from being destroyed.

This is honestly just common sense. And no, Hood didn't figure out that Endeavor was overheating, he just noticed how at the start he was using big attacks and then he wasn't. Here's the thought process of Hood: "Oh, he was blasting me loads before with powerful attacks and now he isn't, he must not be able to use those attacks now". "Weak Hero's who I have no interest in are bothering my fight with a stronger enemy? I'll throw out the white Nomu so they can stop interfering". It's just common sense. The head thing can simply be explained as the Ujiko telling him that it's his weak point.

but when Hood gets too hyped with his 'STRONGER, MORE' thing, his mind breaks and he becomes animalistic, losing all traits of an intelligent being.

That just means he's becoming more bloodlusted, which actually makes him more dangerous than he already was.

Intelligence was one of the advantages he had, losing that is not an advantage and I'd be surprised if he lasted long enough to reach that state, seeing as it's more likely that Nomu would have smashed his head to mush before then.

There's also the fact that Nomu scales to All Might in speed which should make him faster. It probably isn't enough to warrant a blitz but Hoody isn't gonna get to fling Nomu around the same way he did with Endeavor

Yet according to Ujiko, their stats surpass beyond the previous Nomu, so by scaling, Hood should be faster. Even if you didn't include that, he's able to keep with up with Hawks, who's one of the fastest heroes in the series.

As I've said previously, it's clear that USJ is an exception to the other Nomu and it's even stated by AFO himself

No Caption Provided

USJ Nomu scales directly to All Might in terms of speed, compared to Hood being equal with Hawks, said by the man himself. I mean... We're not seriously saying Hawks has the speed advantage on All Might are we now??

Here Hawks states that he's evenly matched in speed with Hood, to which he then proceeds to give Endeavor his feathers so Endeavor would be able to tag Hood.

No Caption Provided

Meanwhile USJ Nomu could keep up with All Might blow for blow before his Shock Absorption overloaded, to which he was knocked out of the USJ via BFR. There's really no comparison, by feats and portrail All Might is faster than Hawks.

and any hits that Nomu lands on Hoody will likely destroy his limbs, though they'll regenerate, a direct brain hit would splatter it instantly due to the lack of Shock Absorption.

Like I said previously, all Hood really needs to do is decapitate his head.

I've disproved why decapitation won't work above and it's not even likely that Hood would be able to decapitate Nomu to begin with. Like I said there, any hits from Nomu would destroy Hoods limbs and a direct blow to the head would splatter his brain instantly due the sheer strength of Nomu and Hoods lack of Shock Absorption.

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lichvanastrea

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#9  Edited By lichvanastrea

@rizaadxn said:

He's gonna need that Super Regeneration too considering his limbs are gonna get one punched, just like how Endeavor's casual jet burn destroyed his limbs. Hoods durability ain't that great.

How is one punch going to destroy his limbs? And there's a difference between tanking blunt force alone vs an attack that burns away your cells.

The fact that the name of said quirk is the exact same and it has never been stated that the regeneration of a HE is better than the previous Super Regeneration.

Only his limbs were destroyed, there's no reason to assume that USJ Nomu couldn't regenerate from just a head, it is the same regeneration quirk after all.

Just because the name is the same doesn't mean it's the exact same Quirk. That's like saying Nine's Quirk is the same as All For One's because they share the same name, even though they stated Nine's was a much weaker version. Or how Muscular's Quirk is the same as Hood's because they have the same name, even though Hood clearly shows he has more raw power and strength than him. It would pretty foolish for Ujiko to make stronger Nomus and yet not give them better Quirks.

It's stated that the Upper Tier Nomu are at least at the strength of 10 average humans. The Black Nomu that Endeavor defeated in season 2 was one of those Nomu who should've been at least the strength of 10 average humans.

So there were 2 black Nomu, 1 of them was built to be as strong as All Might, be a direct counter to him and kill him, the other gave some fodder Pro Hero's some trouble and was defeated off screen by Endeavor. The anime shows what happened but it's evident that Horikoshi has retconned Endeavor since then, his powerset shown in the season 2 is completely different and not only was non of that shown in the manga but the anime had him use blue fire, to which he's never replicated since, anime or manga. Not even Plus Ultra Prominence Burn was blue in temperature.

So it's pretty clear that the Black Nomu in Hosu is the typical one and that USJ Nomu is an exception, specially built to be as strong as All Might and counter him. AFO even says this when Shiggy asks for more Nomu so he could start his attack on Hosu:

No Caption Provided

And the way AFO says it here really makes it seem like Shigaraki doesn't even know much about Nomu's, he was likely told that USJ Nomu is strong enough to defeat All Might, told him the quirks and then let him play out his attack on the USJ.

Fare enough. I won't deny this.

No shit, yet USJ Nomu can't have it's brain destroyed by blunt force due to Shock Absorption and it has Super Regeneration meaning its brain can heal if not fully destroyed by other type of attacks. Stain killed a white Nomu which has no regeneration so its irrelevant here, and the Black Hosu Nomu had to have its brain carbonised via heat which is also irrelevant here.

Again, what is stopping Hood from ripping his head off and crushing it? Ripping something a part is simply blunt force.

Rules are that USJ Nomu has been told to kill Hood, if the killing move is to destroy the brain then that's what he's gonna do.

If he's just given a vague order like "kill Hood", then how is the Nomu immediately going to jump to the conclusion that he needs to destroy his head to kill him?

Huh?

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

One Carolina smash and one ordinary smash, just like I said...

The way you worded that suggested he landed two Carolina Smashes instead of one.

No Caption Provided

But whatever.

As I said, using a named attack seems like a pretty serious thing, not only that but All Might is testing to see whether his punches truly aren't effective on Nomu, to which he's suprised implying he wasn't holding his punches back.

He literally says 'seriously?' with a suprised face and the sfx *quiver* when Nomu went unfazed by Carolina Smash, there'd be no reason to say that he was pulling his punches.

Because he was surprised that the attack didn't even do anything to him to begin with. Up til that point, All Might's never had to face someone where he had to go all out on. The last time he did was when he went against All For One in their primes. Again, you don't actually believe All Might was already going all out, do you?

If there's a difference between the regeneration of HE & Black Nomu, and USJ Nomu having his head decapitated would kill him then explain this; why did Endeavor have to carbonise the head of the Hosu Nomu?

Because that was Endeavor's only method of killing him.

It's because the head is the core part where the regeneration starts from. Had the entire head not been carbonised the brain would be able to regenerate and so would it's body, had it been destroyed. Endeavor states that carbonised cells can't regenerate, he carbonised the brain of the Hosu Nomu and guess what? It couldn't regenerate which directly implies that the brain of the Black Nomu can also regenerate, had he not carbonised it.

Right. Except when Endeavor carbonized the head of the Hosu Nomu, he was dead immediately. Yet when Endeavor went against fought against Hood, he had to go all out to burn him completely. Throughout the battle, Endeavor was surprised by how its regeneration was keeping up, even when he was burning him from the inside. Based on that alone, it's pretty clear that Hood has a superior regeneration in comparison to the previous Nomu.

Which makes sense considering they have the same Super Regeneration quirk, same name and all. So yes, if Hoody decapitated USJ Nomu it would regenerate from just the head, that's saying if Hoody would even have the opportunity to decapitate Nomu to begin with.

The comment above pretty much explains why that isn't the case and even if it was, Hood would have plenty of time to crush his head and destroy it. And don't tell me he's not strong enough to do it.

Hmm? No it doesn't, because Hoody is nowhere near the level of All Might.

I know that, but it doesn't change the fact that the USJ Nomu doesn't actually scale to All Might.

And as I've explained already, All Might wasn't pulling his punches with Carolina smash, to which he literally quivered in fear when Nomu went unfazed by it.

What do you mean he wasn't pulling his punches? You don't actually think he was already going all out against the Nomu, do you?

I've already explained how decapitating USJ Nomu won't matter above. Can you also show me a scene with Hoody decapitating someone? No, because despite having some degree of cutting attacks he never decapitated Endeavor which he could've easily done.

He stabbed right through Endeavor's skin and cut his face, but he can't decapitate his head off? Come on now. If you really want to go by this, then show me a scene of where the USJ Nomu can regenerate from his head only.

Also, while Hood has some degree of cutting attacks so does USJ Nomu, we saw how he easily pierced All Might with his claws. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Nomu could crush Hoods brain just on pure gripping strength.

That would require him to get real close, which Hood obviously isn't going to allow.

I never understood that line, Tomura states it'd be best to gouge out his skin piece by piece and the next thing we know a few pages later is that Nomu has Super Regeneration, so yeah, good luck doing that when it's gonna be constantly regenerating. Either Shigaraki is dumb af or Horikoshi is just bad at consistent writing.

I mean one would still take damage, their wounds would just regenerate. And he's technically not wrong since the most effective way to kill them would be to their heads off, of course he doesn't say that though.

Like I said, his ability to pierce doesn't matter. If Nomu is decapitated he can regenerate to the same degree as Hood.

Again, there's no proof that the Nomu can regenerate from its head and like I've been saying for some time now, Hood would have enough time to crush his head completely if that were the case.

Hood isn't gonna get to fling Nomu around like he did with Endeavor, Nomu would easily get out of his grasp considering he had enough strength to hold All Might in place, that's if Hood could even tag Nomu to begin with seeing as Nomu is equal to All Might in speed, if not slightly under.

Again, you're scaling him with a weakened All Might that wasn't even initially going all out. And if you want to do that, then why you not want to scale the High-Ends since Ujiko states their stats surpass the previous Nomu? Yes, I know the USJ Nomu was an exception, but that's only because it was designed to counter against All Might in which he can tank his attacks via Shock Absorption.

"After all the trouble we went through to make him as strong as All Might" words from Dr Ujiko himself, who had the help of AFO directly, and seeing as these are the same guys behind the Villain Factory in Vigilantes, they've been working on the Nomu for at least half a decade.

The fight clearly suggests otherwise. Nomu was only strong up to the point where All Might went all out. There's no way in hell Ujiko would have made the Nomu that strong.

It's not that he's keeping his distance from Endeavor, he's just able to babyshake him because Endeavor is not strong enough.

He's still able to push back his opponent and keep his distance from them.

This is honestly just common sense. And no, Hood didn't figure out that Endeavor was overheating, he just noticed how at the start he was using big attacks and then he wasn't. Here's the thought process of Hood: "Oh, he was blasting me loads before with powerful attacks and now he isn't, he must not be able to use those attacks now". "Weak Hero's who I have no interest in are bothering my fight with a stronger enemy? I'll throw out the white Nomu so they can stop interfering". It's just common sense.

That honestly doesn't change anything. If Hood is noticing how Endeavor is suddenly not using his serious moves against him, then it's pretty clear he realizing Endeavor has a limit to his attacks and it's giving him an opportunity to take advantage of. It's not simply common sense if Endeavor notes that it's good intuition, especially when it's coming from a Nomu.

The head thing can simply be explained as the Ujiko telling him that it's his weak point.

That still doesn't change the fact that he used a tactic that protected his head.

Intelligence was one of the advantages he had, losing that is not an advantage and I'd be surprised if he lasted long enough to reach that state, seeing as it's more likely that Nomu would have smashed his head to mush before then.

He's going up against someone that doesn't even have a will of its own though. How exactly is the Nomu going to even drive him up to that state to begin with?

As I've said previously, it's clear that USJ is an exception to the other Nomu and it's even stated by AFO himself

No Caption Provided

This was before the High-End were introduced. At the time, the USJ Nomu was indeed the peak of the Nomu.

USJ Nomu scales directly to All Might in terms of speed,

No it doesn't. It was only keeping up with him until he went all out.

compared to Hood being equal with Hawks, said by the man himself. I mean... We're not seriously saying Hawks has the speed advantage on All Might are we now??

Obviously not, but Hood's speed shouldn't be underestimated to begin with. And

Here Hawks states that he's evenly matched in speed with Hood, to which he then proceeds to give Endeavor his feathers so Endeavor would be able to tag Hood.

No Caption Provided

Meanwhile USJ Nomu could keep up with All Might blow for blow before his Shock Absorption overloaded, to which he was knocked out of the USJ via BFR. There's really no comparison, by feats and portrail All Might is faster than Hawks.

No one is saying Hawks is faster than All Might. It's just that Hawks is obviously one of the fastest characters in the series and yet Hood was able to keep up with him.

I've disproved why decapitation won't work above and

You're going under the assumption that USJ Nomu's regeneration operates the same way that the High-Ends just because they're named the same Quirk do which not only makes no sense, but there's no way to prove that's the case to begin with.

it's not even likely that Hood would be able to decapitate Nomu to begin with.

Why? He doesn't even have piercing durability to begin with.

Like I said there, any hits from Nomu would destroy Hoods limbs and a direct blow to the head would splatter his brain instantly due the sheer strength of Nomu and Hoods lack of Shock Absorption.

How is Nomu's punches alone doing to destroy his limbs? And again, he would have to try and get real close to land a hit on his head, which Hood obviously won't allow.

Honestly man, it seems like you have a winner in mind for this thread.

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xAntiMobiusGodx

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Someone lock this shit!

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lichvanastrea

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Someone lock this shit!

I mean you can always tag a mod if you want.

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Jucaslucasa

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I'd say USJ pretty handily.

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DarkPsychicLord_Prime

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I'd go with USJ Nomu, not only is he stronger and faster, Hood doesn't really have the damage output to significantly hurt him, and even then Nomu can regenerate. Meanwhile, all Nomu has to do is destroy Hood's head which is a more likely outcome.

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nwname

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#15 nwname  Moderator

@lichvanastrea: The USJ Nomu is an exceptional one, it is clearly more powerful than the best high end (hood) who is > the rest of high ends who are in turn > normal fodder Nomu. Hood has a power rating of S, and speed rating of A while All Might has S+ for both and USJ Nomu pushed All Might to the limit.

So stats go as; USJ = S+/S+, Hood, S/A+, other high ends are at most A+/A+.

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lichvanastrea

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@nwname: The Ultra Analysis book isn’t really most reliable source to go by. It’s better to use for a general understanding of the characters.

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KanyeCosby

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I think USJ Nomu wins, but you shouldn’t make threads with a winner in mind.

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yamatama

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USJ Nomu easily

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nwname

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#19 nwname  Moderator

@lichvanastrea: Isn't it pretty much authors ratings? Even in story Hood couldn't even one shot Endeavor. Im pretty sure 1 hit from USJ Nomu would turn him to mist and he is far faster based on fighting All Might.

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jashro44

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#20  Edited By jashro44

@kanyecosby said:

I think USJ Nomu wins, but you shouldn’t make threads with a winner in mind.

I think its fine. The OP is being forthcoming in his intentions and there not nefarious. I think this is fine.

For what its worth I use to debate in my own threads all the time.

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lichvanastrea

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@nwname said:

@lichvanastrea: Isn't it pretty much authors ratings?

I mean I guess, but some of the stat ratings are questionable (i.e. Mineta having an intelligence on par with Chisaki while at the same time superior to Endeavor) and it's part of the reason why I tend not to take databook stats seriously most of the time.

Even in story Hood couldn't even one shot Endeavor. Im pretty sure 1 hit from USJ Nomu would turn him to mist and he is far faster based on fighting All Might.

No one's denying that, but he would have to destroy his head completely otherwise, Hood will just regenerate. And knowing how protective these High-Ends are for over their weak spots, Hood isn't simply going allow that to happen.

The only thing you got going on here is speed, but aside from that, Hood pretty much surpasses him in intelligence, versatility and regen.

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DRdaddy

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Could go either way

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nwname

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#23  Edited By nwname  Moderator
No Caption Provided

Its hilarious but the in-story statement is Upper Nomu are at least 10 times average human level (lmao) and high ends are beyond the upper tiers in STATS.

That said logically USJ nomu should blitz and crush Hood's head like a grape. Well since he doesnt have the intelligence to think of that it would take a good while to happen but still.

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rizaadxn

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@nwname: it does say at least the strength of 10 average combined humans, I think an example of one of those would be the Black Nomu in Hosu. It's pretty clear that USJ Nomu is above that level and It's stated by AFO that he's above the other Nomu including the other black ones.

I don't even think 100+ combined humans would be able to punch All Might back the way USJ Nomu did.

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Floopay

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From what I've seen, and I'm only an anime guy, is that High End is significantly deadlier than USJ Nomu. I mean, it was a walking AoE death machine. However, USJ Nomu seems to be a hard counter for everything High End could put out.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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nwname

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#26 nwname  Moderator

@rizaadxn said:

@nwname: it does say at least the strength of 10 average combined humans, I think an example of one of those would be the Black Nomu in Hosu. It's pretty clear that USJ Nomu is above that level and It's stated by AFO that he's above the other Nomu including the other black ones.

I don't even think 100+ combined humans would be able to punch All Might back the way USJ Nomu did.

Well its a ridiculously low number if it were to be for USJ Nomu like saying the universe has at least 100 stars which just sounds weird/wrong. Oh there were other upppers? Didnt remember them tbh. If its above all the others its weird that his picture is used as a reference for the upper tiers.

Yeah no way 100 is matching that. Maybe millions to billions can.

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rizaadxn

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@nwname: yeah, this is the other Black Nomu:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

The scan that you posted should have used this Nomu, not USJ Nomu tbh, especially after AFO stated that USJ Nomu is above the others and we can clearly see that by feats too.

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Kinginrags

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Nomu stomps Nomu.

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Wot_m8

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Hood wins. The obligatory fact that High-Ends> Upper tiers... USJ Nomi only did well against All Might coz it was built counter him.

Despite that, USJ Nomu failed to beat All Might who had exhausted himself already and was weakened extremely before the fight even began.

Even if we scale USJ Nomu stats to All Might (which is bonkers since as I said, All Might was exhausted before the fight and still overpowered Nomu despite shock absorption) it can't put Hood down.

Hood would simply keep regenerating. He showed no limits to his regeneration and healing apart from being carbonized while USJ Nomu did against simply blunt force... something he was built to tank.

So, let's summarize,

Hood has inverse hierarchy above USJ Nomu.

Hood is smarter.

Hood has better regeneration.

Hood can fly.

Hood can supposedly shapeshift.

Hood can spawn other Nomu from his body.

I really do not see how USJ Nomu can win.

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Hulk_Hater_Man

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Hood

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rizaadxn

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My own thread but idc, Nomu stomps Hoods fodder ass. Hood can't even effectively damage him lol, whereas USJ Nomu is hitting with All Might tier strength.

Like, it took All Might going over 100% for 300+ blows in quick succession for USJ Nomu to overload, Hood doesn't have the speed nor strength to replicate such a feat.

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EmperrorAFO

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High-End wins via statements.

USJ Nomou wins via scaling and feats.

USJ just resisted much higher forces and also proved to possess strength on another level.

Even if it was just for him being designed to last against All Might, it will also work great against High-End since his attack too are just blunt force.

Hood possibly possesses higher generation and also more versatlity.

It could technically also be a stalemate, since none of them has, what it takes to put the other down for good.

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NamelessMonster

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Does the statements about High-End Nomu being above its predecessor monsters, it refer to also USJ Nomu or just the fodder ones that were attacking the city?

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Sweetyx

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#34  Edited By Sweetyx

Stalemate.

USJ Nomu is way stronger than Hoods. But Hoods can't hurt USJ Nomu and USJ Nomu can't kill Hoods because of his regeneration. I would say USJ Nomu would win because he could simply BFR him but BFR is not allowed.

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shirso

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Yeah didn't USJ Nomu have a quirk allowing it to better absorb blunt force? High End should win due to being smarter, flight, regen and piercing.

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lichvanastrea

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#36  Edited By lichvanastrea

@namelessmonster: It's specifically stated that the Nomu are divided into three tiers (lower, middle and upper) and each one shown here represents those tiers (you can see the USJ Nomu here). The High-End Nomu stands above all those tiers, surpassing even an upper tier Nomu.

No Caption Provided

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rizaadxn

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#37  Edited By rizaadxn

@lichvanastrea: and the USJ Nomu is also stated to be above the Upper tier Nomu, the only thing he lacks compared to High-Ends is intelligence.

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NamelessMonster

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NamelessMonster

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#39  Edited By NamelessMonster

By feats USJ., By statements High End.

It could end in a stalemate because High-End regeneration.

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TheAnimeScaler

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USJ Nomu folds.

He is equal to 100% USJ All Might while Hood is only equal to the Near High-Ends as Mirio stated.

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gdara

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Overall I believe the High-Ends are too versatile for the USJ Nomu.

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AanMNP

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USJ Nomu

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TopTierGod

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I don’t understand the confusion. Hood slams

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TheAnimeScaler

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100% USJ All Might = USJ Nomu >~ 75% Base Quirkless Shigaraki (stated) >>> Hood = Near High-Ends

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#48  Edited By UnderStandy

ok,first of all how long is this going on for, here i explain the difference, as we can see both do possess regen but in other to kill each other hood must be smashed in the brains which will be impossible for usj unless usj manages to tackle hood down i doubt that but i think if the usj have a decent reaction speed it would be a draw why? so basically its either carbonized brain cells,blunt force OR having their brain at least sliced into 50 pieces because if the brain is scattered small enough it cant regen as for mha universe for regen to work u must have 1/10 part of the brain to regen unless hood can make more than 1 sharp hands he would prob win plus he has a upper hand of range but the usj has the ability to abuse strength power if he was how ever like aizawa said he felt as strong as all might it only took all might 300 hits because all might quirk is stockpile remember it builds over time but if passed on he stilll has one for all but it does not mean decreased in strength and that when all might fought afo he was only weaker cause he was fighting in his weaken form too he's united states of smash is his all power which lead him to his end okay so basically what i mean is if all might did used his full power against the nomu he would have destroyed him already but because he didnt and so i say s3 when afo pulled all might to the end forcing him to use all of it means he's possible to be stronger cause of encouragement and its possible that all might wasnt using he's full power at the nomu or else he would end up in the state that has to fight afo and yes i dont think the nomu or hood would win why? cause both possess regen and idt they both are smart enough to know each other's weakness even if hood is smart if he learns how to take down usj like i said he will win but if usj manages to tackle he wins if they figured each other's weakness that is, all might possess strengthing abilities to use on all of his body parts but idt the nomu has that ability has we can see he can move fast but he never jumps and if he could jump to fly he would have prob have done so when am was attacking him so if his smart he can lure hood into buildings knocking them down on hood but i doubt that happens,the 2 ways usj can die is carbonized or heavy blunt force the only way usj is to die is to slice and dice his brain or carbonized this is just my theory so i dont blame anyone i do agree with some of the moderator answers though to be fair usj does have strength but if u want to argue against my decision its fine the usj doesnt possess the exact strength am has in fact its body made to waste his energy so shigaraki could get am so even if hood lacks durablity he does not lack intelligence or tactics cause hood learns his enemy over time so the longer he last the higher chance he'll win unlike usj which doesnt learn anything but listen

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TheWatcherKing

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#49  Edited By TheWatcherKing

High ends are designed to be superior, and that attack from Star+ missiles is a better feat than what USJ took. Though idk about Hood specifically

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Majorknight

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The only reason most people are supporting USJ Noumu is because it fought All Might while HE fought Endeavor. Endeavor just happens to be a great counter to All Noumus based on the fact that "Incinerated Cells can't Regenerate" One good opening is all he needs to end them. That said we shouldn't underestimate HE because he didn't fight All Might

IIRC Endeavor implicitly States in the very first few minutes after fighting HE "HOW IS THIS THING SO MUCH FASTER AND STRONGER THAN ME?"

Based on that alone, it stands to reason that HE could be just as fast & strong as USJ Noumu since Endeavor acknowledges how much he's overpowered. The only reason he defeats HE is because he literally had his hand in it's mouth before showcasing his most powerful attack. Plus HE reacted more than once to Endeavors attacks while also overwhelming him in strength every time they clashed. So there's no real reason to claim HE is weaker coz he was actually besting the No 1 hero in almost every category. Endeavor won purely on having a quirk that can actually destroy Noumus

With that said, I back up High End. He's definitely beating USJ Noumu in a good fight