Urza vs Dormammu

Urza

Dormammu

The most powerful planeswalker of all time vs the master of the dark dimension

Who wins?

@banthabot: I am interested in Urza, can you post some of his best feats?

>Urza most powerful

no, thas Taysir

Feats for Urza?

Does Urza have some universal+ feats?

@banthabot: Where was it revealed that he was the most powerful of all time? Surely no match for Jace...

@wollfmyth209: Simply being a notably powerful pre-mending walker puts him as a near-omniscient and omnipotent character capable of effecting the multiverse. I'm not familiar with his feats in particular but I am familiar with his kind and that he has a reputation as one of the most notable among pre-mending walkers. Less experienced walkers than him could destroy, warp, and create planes of existence at a whim, and unleash attacks that caused massive damage to the multiverse as a whole.

I say this once more. Plane size is not consistant. Some planes are basically planets

@wollfmyth209: I am not too sure but many people say he is multiversal + . The reasoning here is that Pre-mending walkers are described as gods compared to post mending planeswalkers, When Post-Mending Ugin died he caused some sort of temporal dimensional rift that affected multiple universes.

And he is comparable to Pre-mending Bolas who ACCIDENTALLY created a rift which would have destroyed the multiverse if left unchecked casually.

Pre-mending walkers like Teferi could manipulate time in a multiversal scale. Urza is top tier premending walker.

@decaf_wizard But some like Mirrodin are the size of our solar system (Mirrodin has 5 stars).

@decaf_wizard: I'd say the average plane is about the size of pur solar system. Most of them at least have multiple stars and other planetoids. That does not undermine the distance between planes or the multiverse itself as the multiverse is just as infinite as any other multiverse

I play mtg, I read the novels (Artifact Cycle, Rath Cycle, Invasion Cycle, Oddysey Cycle and the first book of Onslaught Cycle) plus their wikis.

For those who don't know the lore of mtg and based from my knowledge of the lore, Urza The Planeswalker, is one of those characters known for cunning, ruthless and willing to risk it all just to defeat someone (He put Dominaria to an ice age because he used the Sylex against Mishra and go for decades for the Legacy weapon to defeat Yawgmoth) .

Now, just like the previous post, this Planeswalker, is an Old Walker or a Pre-Mending one, meaning he is one of those near omnipotent, can travel or “walked”the multiverse in the blink of an eye, has an ability to destroy/create artificial planes, devastate a natural plane(He had this bad habit, did it twice, one is he asked Gerrard Caphasen to use his Weakstone-Mightstone eyes and combine them together to kill Yawgmoth and if you count the Sylex when he was still a mortal), and had unlimited number of spells.

When we say unlimited number spells, you need to take it literally, because the old planeswalkers can be indestructible, can delete an opponent, can manipulate forces of nature, can be intangible and etc... You know, a living infinity gems/stones, because they became Magic or the essence of the 5 mana(RBWGU) itself.

But, they also had an Achilles heel, if the opponent managed to destroy or consume their essence(Tevesh Szat did this and so is Nicol Bolas) or managed to corrupt(This is proven as Yawgmoth corrupted him in the Planeswalker and during the climax of the Apocalypse novel) or trap(Tetsuo Umezawa did this to Nicol Bolas) an Old-Planeswalker then its over for the Planeswalker, but this is a feat that takes wits. And for someone like Urza who is always scheming and creating artifacts and gadgets to amplify his abilities(like Tony Stark) his opponent needs to outwit or find a way to manipulate or corrupt him.

So for Dormammu or any hero who will face this guy needs to win a battle of wits and its not just a fist fight or any hax sh*t or anything that even it involves a multiple spiral big bang. IT IS A BATTLE OF WITS. Act impulsively against an Old Planeswalker, like Urza, is a suicide even if you’re Queen Serenity, Zeno, Cronus, Galactus or Thanos that wields the infinity gauntlet with all the gems in it. Why? If you watched how Dr. Strange trolled Dormammu using the Time Gem in the movie then yes Urza can do the same thing but more nastier.

dormy stomps

@alex_odinson: Dormy can win but not a stomp, so stop wanking/trolling and give your idea how will Dormy win against an Old Planeswalker like Urza

@rocker_kanzuki: If you watched how Dr. Strange trolled Dormammu using the Time Gem in the movie then yes Urza can do the same thing but more nastier.

Anything that happened in the movie was no connection or relevance to this battle since this fight features the comic version of Dormammu, who's a completely different character than his MCU counterpart. Strange usually wins against Dormammu by indeed outsmarting him in the comics, but that's a very particular case given many circumstances surrounding both characters after the creation of a longtime rivalry.

Backing to the battle itself, you mentioned that trapping and absorbing a Planewalker could guarantee a victory, so why can't Dormie explore those tactics here? He absorbed Mordo and Umar while weakened, as well sealed Zom during the old days.

@andromeda101: As long as Dormy outsmart Urza he can do that tactic. But you need to take note Urza is a known prepper even if it takes millenias and after his experiences against Yawgmoth he will always have a back up plan against someone like Dormammu. And just like what I said, it is a battle of wits. Because Urza will just simply “walked” outside and go to other universe to recuperate and plan if he realized that he will be absorbed by Dormy and comeback with a tactic and a create a device that will put Dormy down. Now it’s up to Dormy if he can capitalize his assault without the risk of being trapped or outwitted by the Planeswalker.

P.S. at least you answer and had an idea how he will win unlike Alex_Odinson who just simply claimed “Dormy Stomp” without any support or explanation, which is totally wanking/trolling

I think I’ll go for stalemate or indecisive here since this is a game of chess where one had a contingency plan to another and can counter one spell or ability to another’s answer

@rocker_kanzuki said:

Pretty sure that by the Vine's rules, that could count as self-BFR. Besides, what's stopping Dormammu from following him though? Even less skilled and powerful characters in the mystical arts have traveled across and beyond the Omniverse itself.

They can duke it out accross the multiverse travelling from one wolrd to another. But as the lore if mtg mentioned that in between universes there is a void or blind eternities, knownig Urza’s schemes he can go what Ugin and Sorin did to the Eldrazi, trapped his opponent, the difference is he will trap Dormmy in the void, that is one of his approaches. or have a cat and mouse game with Dormmamu until one is exhausted or have an idea to pacify the other. But other possible battle here is the use of the Mightstones and Weakstone which is stored in Urza’s eyes, which he can use from his eyes or if he will go desperate he will put it together and decimate them both. So it’s just like Dormmy is like facing Strange again, he can use his experience to go toe to toe with Urza as Urza will use his experiences in his war against Phyrexia or his other Planeswalkers and locked for a battle that might span Millennia

the dread dormammu

@andromeda101:

Aw this is not a self buffer, Urza did it in the Planeswalker novel, when he attempted to assault Phyrexia all by himself and when Yawgmoth starts corrupting him, he blindly walked away from Phyrexia with his remaining sanity and ends up in Serra's Realm to recover for years and travelling again to different universes just to heal the mental and emotional scar that Yawgmoth did. It is a common thing to Planeswalkers, especially on the earlier novels and lores of MTG, one Planeswalker retreats from one universe to another just to recover. And yeah I think I forgot to mention that Urza was an artificer, in which in the lore of MTG he creates devices. He is also the head master of Tolaria academy which he founded to teach students magic, artifice and bio-enhanced beings, which will help him to defeat various opponents. I mean He took millennias to patiently complete the Legacy weapon which finally killed Yawgmoth, which killed him as well. So basically it will be a waiting game, if Urza will not use the Weak and Might stones which is stored in his eyes.

@rocker_kanzuki: But as the lore if mtg mentioned that in between universes there is a void or blind eternities, knownig Urza’s schemes he can go what Ugin and Sorin did to the Eldrazi, trapped his opponent, the difference is he will trap Dormmy in the void,

It's not like it's that different in Marvel with some places such as the Exospace itself and on so. Still, Dormammu was able to travel through all of Eternity's being to reach its core and even went outside of it...Which shows a lot given how Eternity is literally the manifestation of everything and all realities, so Dormie can indeed move through any universes and the nothing that is beyond them.

Not really arguing for who would win though, but just trying to understand better the tactics you mentioned here and if their application in a battle against Dormammu could work.

Aw this is not a self buffer, Urza did it in the Planeswalker novel, when he attempted to assault Phyrexia all by himself and when Yawgmoth starts corrupting him, he blindly walked away from Phyrexia with his remaining sanity and ends up in Serra's Realm to recover for years and travelling again to different universes just to heal the mental and emotional scar that Yawgmoth did. It is a common thing to Planeswalkers, especially on the earlier novels and lores of MTG, one Planeswalker retreats from one universe to another just to recover.

If that's the case, then seems like a valid plan. Most of your other points seem to be quite reasonable in order to guarantee a stalemate or a victory for Urza anyway, but it's not like I can argue too much about or against them as I lack enough knowledge on MTG to do so.

@andromeda101: You can explore the mtg lore even you don’t play, I mean you can read the novels starting from the Thran, then you can go to the Brother’s War where Urza was first introduced and how he became a Planeswalker, then go for its sequels which is the Planeswalker, Timestreams and Bloodlines then you can follow thru the succeeding novels about Urza, Yawgmoth, the Legacy weapon and the Weatherlight crew :)