(Updated/Clarified)New Images/Scans Rule

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renchamp

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#1  Edited By renchamp

Edit: Instead of answering the incredible amounts of replies, I'll address the common concerns here in bold. The rule has been updated to address some things already discussed.

Everyone, here is the new rule on full page scans. It has been approved by G-Man. I am posting this in separate threads, as well as posting it in the rules thread.

In general, do not upload/post full page scans. As Comic Vine rises in popularity, so does its scrutiny by the comic companies.

Exceptions:

  1. Reporting news - (Typically reserved for Staff)
  2. Reviews - When the scan serves as an example for the review
  3. Commentary - Actually addressing the merits of the scan's composition
  4. Research - Probably not applicable to our site
  5. Express permission/license - (Also typically reserved for Staff)
  6. Images from comics/manga in the public domain

To be safe, stick to reducing a scan down to a panel. This has not caused much of a problem. (Besides, we don't want to see the panel of Batman smacking Robin go away.)

Due to the legal nature of this rule, please don't try to get cute and exploit/try to find loopholes or justify using a full page scan when one isn't necessary. Mods will delete abuse and give out warnings where appropriate.

Battles: An argument can be made that battles are a form of research. This is very weak. But, as scans are a part of the culture of battles, Comic Vine will allow up to three pages of full page scans per issue to show feats and context for a point of debate. (Note: We would prefer the use of panels.) "Pictures or it didn't happen" needs to stop. The days of showing half a comic because of a battle sequence are over. If someone does not agree that a certain feat went down as argued then up to three scans can be used (if panels are insufficient) as evidence. This is not to say that if three scans cannot adequately show the point then the claim is false, it just means that everyone needs to find the book and find out for themselves. Sides of debates do not always have the same information and it is up to the civil debaters to find out for themselves the validity of another's statement. This rule extends to Respect threads and CaV tournaments.

Previews: Do not think that you can repost preview pages just because a company gives our site access. Preview pages are licensed to specific sites. Comic Vine is granted permission to post early pages of upcoming books; you are not granted that permission. If you want to show off a preview then make a link to the preview. This goes for previews exclusive to other sites. We do not have permission to repost the scans. Provide a link if you want to showcase scans for a preview on another site.

It should go without saying that you may not post full issues to Comic Vine -- not even to your personal gallery. These should be deleted.

Remember that this rule is legal in nature. This has nothing to do with the complaint of users scan-bombing. The law technically says that no full page scans should be used. There is no right to reproduction if the copyright owner has not given permission. Battles have been a part of Comic Vine for a long time; we have gone this long without intense scrutiny. However, it would be naive to think that this will last forever. We have had some complaints already from comic companies. The site is willing to stick its neck out for three full page scans.

Manga is covered by this rule. Just because foreign companies have not pursued infringement in the past does not mean that we can ignore their rights. This goes for webcomics, too. The caveat is if the publisher/owner has given permission to reproduce the content. Rare, but it happens when people truly want their work out.

The argument that using scans promotes picking up new books holds no water. That is a great side effect of sharing comics, but it is not an exemption for potential copyright issues.

A workaround is by posting links to external photo/scan sites. We don't have any control over that. We just don't want the full scans on our site. Also, links to videos of the full comics are against the rules, as that is akin to linking to a pirated copy.

We understand that people will be sensitive to this new and supposedly harsh rule. We just want to make sure that Comic Vine is able to continue operating without much interference from outside (legal) forces.

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Lightning_Lasso

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@renchamp:

So basically don't spam dozens of scans to showcase two characters fighting or something around those lines? Eh. I feel like that will really hurt the battle forum. (Especially in regards to CaVs. and tourneys.) Also, how would this affect respect threads?

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@renchamp:

So basically don't spam dozens of scans to showcase two characters fighting or something around those lines? Eh. I feel like that will really hurt the battle forum. (Especially in regards to CaVs. and tourneys.) Also, how would this affect respect threads?

I would assume the same rules apply for respect threads as well.

I can't really imagine a Battle forum without scans myself, but maybe that's just me.

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renchamp

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@lightning_lasso: Same with respect threads. If a panel can't do it then up to three pages of scans. If more is needed to showcase a feat, words always work.

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@jaken7: And it's not without scans. Up to three are fine if a panel or two won't work.

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Lightning_Lasso

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@renchamp:

What about the already existing respect threads with hundreds of scans?

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@renchamp said:

@jaken7: And it's not without scans. Up to three are fine if a panel or two won't work.

3 per thread, yeah?

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#8  Edited By renchamp

@lightning_lasso: They should be edited, but we aren't going to slap warnings around for a rule that has only recently been nailed down.

Remember, this rule is legal in nature. With heightened scrutiny, we have been contacted by comic companies several times in the last few months about scans that have needed to come down.

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renchamp

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And it's not without scans. Up to three are fine if a panel or two won't work.

3 per thread, yeah?

Three per issue, per thread. Unless something is being taken out of context and someone can prove it wrong.

Really, we just want legitimate discussion. Posting a whole battle that takes up six to eight pages of an issue is dangerous.

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Three per issue, per thread. Unless something is being taken out of context and someone can prove it wrong.

So a user is only allowed to post a total of 3 scans throughout the thread?

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Wait... so is this rule only in regards to full, stacked images? Can we still post more than three scans side-by-side?

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dagmar_merrill

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@renchamp: What about a preview? Those are generally 4 pages long can we post a whole preview without trouble?

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#13  Edited By Wyldsong

@thetruebarryallen said:

Three per issue, per thread. Unless something is being taken out of context and someone can prove it wrong.

So a user is only allowed to post a total of 3 scans throughout the thread?

Unless I am misreading this, no more than 3 full page scans from a particular book. So if you use three scans from Spider-Man #1, then that is it for scans from that particular issue in that thread. You can still post three scans from issue number 2 (which will then be the limit for scans from that book), then issue number 3 and so on. But, if what you post is being taken out of context, they will allow someone else to post the counter scans proving it wrong, they just don't want more than 3 scans coming out of one particular issue of a comic in general.

Sound about right @renchamp?

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@thetruebarryallen: Of the same issue. Yes. Three per issue, per thread. You can use images from another issue. Up to three full page scans (if just panels won't suffice).

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@renchamp said:

@thetruebarryallen: Of the same issue. Yes. Three per issue, per thread. You can use images from another issue. Up to three full page scans (if just panels won't suffice).

Alright.

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@i_like_swords said:

Wait... so is this rule only in regards to full, stacked images? Can we still post more than three scans side-by-side?

Scratch this, I understand the rule now. The only issue I would have with it is that in CaVs, sometimes it is needed to post more than three scans from a single issue to prove a point. Especially with some characters, like SW characters, where context is everything, and a lot of their feats can happen in just a single issue.

However, would I be right in saying that, in a CaV or battle thread, I can post as many individual panels from a comic issue as I want? Even if they overall amount to more than three pages worth of panels?

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@wyldsong said:

@thetruebarryallen said:

Three per issue, per thread. Unless something is being taken out of context and someone can prove it wrong.

So a user is only allowed to post a total of 3 scans throughout the thread?

Unless I am misreading this, no more than 3 full page scans from a particular book. So if you use three scans from Spider-Man #1, then that is it for scans from that particular issue in that thread. You can still post three scans from issue number 2 (which will then be the limit for scans from that book), then issue number 3 and so on. But, if what you post is being taken out of context, they will allow someone else to post the counter scans proving it wrong, they just don't want more than 3 scans coming out of one particular issue of a comic in general.

Sound about right @renchamp?

Sounds about right.

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@i_like_swords said:

Wait... so is this rule only in regards to full, stacked images? Can we still post more than three scans side-by-side?

No. That would negate the whole rule. Three full page scans (if panels won't suffice) per issue, per thread. It does not matter the format of the scan on the page. The rule deals with the content, not the form. We need to limit full page scans. Three is the limit Comic Vine is comfortable with.

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@renchamp said:

@i_like_swords said:

Wait... so is this rule only in regards to full, stacked images? Can we still post more than three scans side-by-side?

No. That would negate the whole rule. Three full page scans (if panels won't suffice) per issue, per thread. It does not matter the format of the scan on the page. The rule deals with the content, not the form. We need to limit full page scans. Three is the limit Comic Vine is comfortable with.

Understood. My only other query would be this one:

However, would I be right in saying that, in a CaV or battle thread, I can post as many individual panels from a comic issue as I want? Even if they overall amount to more than three pages worth of panels?

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@dagmar_merrill said:

@renchamp: What about a preview? Those are generally 4 pages long can we post a whole preview without trouble?

Depends. If the preview is exclusive to CBR or some other site, no way. If the preview is released generally then yes. But you need to make sure that the company hasn't posted language that the preview isn't to be copied or reproduced. If you aren't sure, just post a link.

Also, if the preview is available on our site, we already have a thread for it. Link to the thread instead of making another or posting the pages in a thread. The site has permission to post the pages; us users don't.

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#21  Edited By Frozen

@renchamp: I had written a blog which detailed grievances with scan-bombing. Decreasing reliance on scans should (hopefully) improve debate.

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@renchamp: How does manga scans factor into this?

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@frozen said:

@renchamp: I actually like this rule. I had written a blog which detailed grievances with scan-bombing. Decreasing reliance on scans should (hopefully) improve debate.

The only problem I have with this rule is there are plenty of users who I know take things out of context, and I don't have the time or money to go around & find every issue they're referencing to see if they're being truthful or not.

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@i_like_swords said:

Understood. My only other query would be this one:

However, would I be right in saying that, in a CaV or battle thread, I can post as many individual panels from a comic issue as I want? Even if they overall amount to more than three pages worth of panels?

Yeah. In talking with G-Man, he had no problems with panels. If they are on-point then that is fine. However, this is not permission to post full comics in panel form. If there is any perceived abuse then the user will get a warning.

Like I've said before, we are really just concerned about the legal consequences that could come as comic companies begin to crack down on copyright infringement. The crappy thing is that copyright law is vague in the digital age so there are no set boundaries. We know that companies have freaked out over four pages, we know that they have freaked out over one page. We are comfortable with three pages and this rule will hopefully keep us out of their sites for a while. (I did not mean this all pointed at you Swords. I'm just too tired to copy and paste this into a new post.)

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One last query (possibly) whenever someone can get to it:

Are we allowed to post links to external sites such as photobucket in order to show more than three pages of a fight? Or is this considered a loophole in that people are still able to click on and see three+ pages from one issue?

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Doesn't this make CAV's much harder to do? There are certain feats or fights that take place in over 3 pages and those just can't be shown anymore? Not everyone can crop the images into panels.

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@renchamp said:

Yeah. In talking with G-Man, he had no problems with panels. If they are on-point then that is fine. However, this is not permission to post full comics in panel form. If there is any perceived abuse then the user will get a warning.

Like I've said before, we are really just concerned about the legal consequences that could come as comic companies begin to crack down on copyright infringement. The crappy thing is that copyright law is vague in the digital age so there are no set boundaries. We know that companies have freaked out over four pages, we know that they have freaked out over one page. We are comfortable with three pages and this rule will hopefully keep us out of their sites for a while. (I did not mean this all pointed at you Swords. I'm just too tired to copy and paste this into a new post.)

Once again, understood. I think the general rule of thumb, then, is common sense. I'll try to keep my panel posting within similar boundaries to the three-page rule.

I think this will help with debating somewhat. It'll obviously restrict us from posting longer fights but then, issue number references and posting the most important parts of the fight should suffice.

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@lightning_lasso: If I weren't on a break from the Vine, I'd be making a bigger and more formal complaint about this. As it stands though, I only browsed through this thread on an essay break. So no complaint for you to deal with fortunately. But I do have a question: In battle board posts, can we post the links to multiple scans if we've reached the limit for our 3 post rule? For example:

  • http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130781/4092388-5769251241-40918.jpg
  • http://retconpunchdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/superman-punches-wraith-in-space.jpg
  • http://abload.de/img/supermanunchained8-2vhe94.jpg

Are we allowed to do this instead if we want to post the URLs of multiple scans from comics when we want to cite more than 3 scans of comic book images?

@frozen said:

@renchamp: I actually like this rule. I had written a blog which detailed grievances with scan-bombing. Decreasing reliance on scans should (hopefully) improve debate.

How can you actually like this rule mate? I know it'll stop scan bombing but for us credible debaters, it's going to severely restrict our ability to make properly structured and empirical debate posts.

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@highaccuser: Cropping software is free for most computers. If they have the image on their computer, they can crop a panel.

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@lvenger: Yeah I was quick to post that comment. On second thought, it'll make CAV's and tournaments much harder....

And I thought you weren't back until next month?

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@lvenger: @i_like_swords: The rule only applies to scans uploaded to Comic Vine. We will leave it up to PhotoBucket and such to control what gets uploaded to their site. (Oooh, loophole...)

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@renchamp: Woops sent it to wrong guy. See message below

@lvenger said:

If I weren't on a break from the Vine, I'd be making a bigger and more formal complaint about this. As it stands though, I only browsed through this thread on an essay break. So no complaint for you to deal with fortunately. But I do have a question: In battle board posts, can we post the links to multiple scans if we've reached the limit for our 3 post rule? For example:

  • http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130781/4092388-5769251241-40918.jpg
  • http://retconpunchdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/superman-punches-wraith-in-space.jpg
  • http://abload.de/img/supermanunchained8-2vhe94.jpg

Are we allowed to do this instead if we want to post the URLs of multiple scans from comics when we want to cite more than 3 scans of comic book images?

@frozen: I know but I'm on my lunch break, saw this thread and decided to ask a question of clarification to Renchamp about battle board URL posts. Suffice to say I'm absolutely not a fan of this new rule, hence my brief return out of exile. I'll be going back into my CV break after I make this post though so apologies if I don't respond. I'll check up on what you've said to me later. See you in December! :)

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@fallschirmjager said:

@renchamp: How does manga scans factor into this?

That's a tricky one, since much of manga is published in other countries. Foreign publishers can only sue if the work is registered in the United States (the situs of Comic Vine). Regardless, the rule is for full page scans. This covers comics and manga. Equal discretion for everyone.

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@renchamp said:

@lvenger: @i_like_swords: The rule only applies to scans uploaded to Comic Vine. We will leave it up to PhotoBucket and such to control what gets uploaded to their site. (Oooh, loophole...)

That's manageable to be honest. Linking someone to my photobucket album to show a fight scene that is more than three pages, is both quicker and more convenient than posting it on CV.

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renchamp

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And, in response to the external links, remember that posting to pirated copies of comics is against the rules and will result in warnings/bans.

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Frozen

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@renchamp: How are moderators going to moderate this whole issue? Because there doesn't seem to be many active mods for the Battles Forum, aside from yourself.

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@renchamp said:

@highaccuser: Cropping software is free for most computers. If they have the image on their computer, they can crop a panel.

Can you point me to anywhere software for Mac I could use for this? Because the only site I've found that seems to work would force me to stack scans because I can't upload the URL, which just makes it look much less presentable and it's harder to have debates taken seriously with that kind of image.

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Silly.

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And restricting it to panels...I don't know. We can't just post out more than 3 pages in panels right? Because there are some fights where you can't just take away certain panels because it doesn't make sense. This doesn't change the volume of content at all, just the way it's presented? This is starting to sound like debates are getting gutted.

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@frozen said:

@highaccuser: Just use the snipping tool. It's much easier.

The what? Where's that?

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What about CaVs this is really gonna hinder them

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#43  Edited By Cream_God

Makes me not want to do a CAV again or even try to debunk a out of context scan or feat mainly because it will be a huge pain having to crop every scan even though the whole thing could be vital. Also a huge pain to make or contribute to a Respect Thread.

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Just host em somewhere, like imgur and post the links here.

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This will make CaVs and tournaments much harder. Why is this rule even needed? Everything was fine just the way it was.

And many of us don't have the time to check every issue their referencing just to see if a particular feat they mentioned is true.

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I feel a petition coming on...

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Guys, this isn't an insurmountable restriction. It only applies to uploading full pages to comic vine. If you want to show someone a full fight, upload it to an album on photobucket, for example, and then link them to the album:

Boba Fett vs Darth Vader

There, just click that and scroll through the album. Problem solved. Unless photobucket end up being scrutinized by similar legislation.

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Jacthripper

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#48  Edited By Jacthripper

I understand why... But

Ouch

Just ouch

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Guys, this isn't an insurmountable restriction. It only applies to uploading full pages to comic vine. If you want to show someone a full fight, upload it to an album on photobucket, for example, and then link them to the album:

Boba Fett vs Darth Vader

There, just click that and scroll through the album. Problem solved. Unless photobucket end up being scrutinized by similar legislation.

Imgur is better, also scans wise you can just show the center part without the borders (think bread without the crust)

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@vivide:

also scans wise you can just show the center part without the borders (think bread without the crust)

So.. I can post an 18 page fight as long as I crop out the page borders?