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#1 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@higorm:

  • Archer (No Armstrong) (5)
  • Roland Deschain (Dark Tower) (1)

@mr_ingenuity:

  • Havok (4)
  • The Spot (1)
  • Nick Fury (1)

Rules

  • Death or KO.
  • In character.
  • Random encounter.
  • BFR is not a win.
  • Start 10 feet apart here.
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#2 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14678 posts) - - Show Bio

@higorm

Character Intros

Alexander Summers aka Havok

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Handbook Entries

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Energy Manipulation

Alex can use his plasma at low intensity to overheat his targets.

A burst of plasma can overheat an engine.

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Continuous bursts of plasma heats up Alt reality Sabretooth's adamantium bones.

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Rogue states the plasma burst stings with Ms Marvel's powers.

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Gives Hulk a headache to the point he complies, passing out & reverting to Banner.

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Alex blast can be rather hot when he uses it at high intensity.

Incinerates a bomb.

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Melts a steel hanger door. Considering Steel melts at 2500°F Alex plasma should be far hotter.

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The destructive force of Alex's plasma is more impressive then its heat.

Alex blast through dozens of meters of rubble & solid rock.

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Knocks Prof. Hulk out of the air mid leap.

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Alex energy absorption allows him to accomplish feats far outside of his tier.

Absorbs enough energy from a star to dominate Vulcan.

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Drains Kang of his Celestial energy amp & pummels him with it.

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Johnathon Ohnn aka The Spot

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Handbook Entry

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Spots/Teleportation

Unlike his first appearance the number of spots John can utilize at once is far greater.

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The spots allows John to redirect attacks specifically punches, logically kicks also.

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The range of the spots can cover the width of the US from brooklyn to seattle. Which is a distance of over 2,000 miles.

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Last but not least the spots can be opened virtually anywhere.

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Nicholas Joseph Fury aka Nick Fury

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Handbook Entries

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I would list Fury's gear hear but he has more gear than I care to post scans for. So I'll post them as necessary, limiting his gear to items he can carry on his person while being mobile. Which means no oversized guns.

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#3 Edited by HigorM (8876 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity:

Obadiah Archer

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With Valiant's relaunch in 2012, Archer was trained as a child assassin by his preacher/politician parents out of a theme park in Kansas. Along with several other children, Archer was adopted, but his true origin is unknown to him. His foster parents had told him that he was their real son, in efforts to make him more obedient. After winning a competition between his siblings, Archer is sent out into the world for the first time to find and kill a man whom his parents have led him to believe to be a demon. Travelling to New York City, Archer meets a man named Armstrong and learns that he is the man he was sent to kill. They fight, but are both captured by a secret society known as the Sect. While captive, Archer escapes but discovers he was lied to by his parents, who are actually members of the Sect, and teams up with Armstrong to stop them from destroying the world.

After years of meditation and training, 18-year-old Obadiah Archer has been dispatched to New York City to carry out the sacred mission of his family’s sect – locate and kill the fun-loving, hard-drinking immortal known as Armstrong! But as this naive teenage assassin stalks his prey, he’ll soon find that both hunter and hunted are just pawns in a centuries-old conspiracy that stretches from the catacombs beneath Wall Street to the heights of the Himalayas. And Archer & Armstrong will have to work together if the future is to stand any chance of surviving the past’s greatest threat!

Source: Archer and Armstrong

Powers/Abilities

Archer is a psiot, someone who can, through psionic powers, copy or download entire skill sets from the "Akashic field".

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Much like a download, once he manage to acquire said skill set, it's starts working instantly, which means immediate mastery, and most important, he actually retains it all, like a storaged file. Next scans shows a bunch of martial arts that Archer already manage to incorporate into his mind.

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Archer also possess mastery of a refined technique called "Dim Mak", which is similar to what we are used to see from Iron Fist, it's basically a powerful strike channeled with life force or "Qi". It's also called as death point striking technique.

So, his ability to copy things isn't restricted only to skills/abilities, it extends to super powers too. After copying various lifeline powers from the Hard Corps, Archer has developed a few super powers. He manage to acquire powers after facing members of the Hard Corps, which are trained individuals, forming a team of humans with brain implants that give them the ability to download super powers. They hunt down super powered psiots (like Archer) in the Valiant Universe.

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  • Muscle Mode - The ability to amplify ones physical strength to superhuman levels
  • Neural Spike - The ability to send an offensive spike to harm an opponents mind
  • Shield - The ability to cover ones self in a wave of protective telekinetic energy
  • Stun Ram - The ability to send out a powerful telekinetic blast

Gear - Archer usually carries a regular crossbow and he's pretty accurate with it, he also uses thworing knives.

Roland Deschain

Roland is the last in the line of Eld. Basilica the last living ancestor of King Arthur himself. He exist in a world where technology has cross universes, psychics run rampant, magic is real, and monsters lurk around every corner. Yet, with just his six shooters, made from the Tower itself, he is able to save the day. Yes, he is that super human and bad ass.

> Strength and Durability

Not Roland's strongest area. He is pretty Hollywood cowboy level in strength, and survived wounds that kill a normal man dozen times over. Pretty peak human here, but still worthy to bring up examples.

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Roland breaks a mans wrist with his grip alone.

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Roland punches his hand through solid dirt wall of a cellar.

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Roland at the age of 14, and in a dream like trance fights off a man size wolf, and breaks it's neck.

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Roland at the age of 14 takes on Cort. Cort who trains all Gunslingers, and most capable weapon master in Gilead. You know this story. Roland at this age manage with his Hawk David to fight, and beat the hell out of Cort to become a man will before his time.

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Roland survives the long walk through a vast desert with little to no supplies. A thought of as an impossible task. Roland pushes on with no water or food well beyond the time frame of what is stated the human body can do without.

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He can tank blows to the head or arm from large wooden weapons that would break the bones of anyone else, but never faze Roland.

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Roland here is shot multiple times by large 7.56 rounds from WW2 era rifles. He not only is still standing, but gets a head injury after ward. In a few hours, Roland gets back on his feat, and saves another person with him. Carrying her to safety by running from the battlefield. All while still full of holes! One shot from those rifles kill normal men, and Roland is hit with several, bleeding out. Still he does all this! Insane.

> Speed

Speed is where Roland is very superhuman in. He cannot run super fast, or fight as a blur. However, his ability to perceive the world, and fire his guns is just flat out super human.

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Roland was always the fastest in thought and hands out of all the other Gunslingers by far.

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Roland is able to reload his guns in incredible speeds.

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Stated to be supernatural fast at it in Wizard and Glass.

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Rolans is so refine in gun skill, he can impossibly reload his gun in rapid time.

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Roland even with one hand can reload his gun in super fast time with his teeth.

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Roland's skill and reaction time is so godly that he can accurately catch the 6 shells flying through the air perfectly in seated in the cylinders of the revolvers. Impossible in real life, but another day for Roland.

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Bats are fast as shit in flight speed, and are erratic as shit in flight patterns. Its hard as hell to pick them out of the air for real life gunmen. Yet Roland has five Sucker Bats that are within 5 feet of himself, and have him surrounded. Roland in that split second spins all around, firing a single shot, and nailing the bats before they move another foot. This was incredible speed and accuracy.

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Roland reaches in his pants, and pulls out another gun in stated blinding speeds.

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Roland stated to quick to see. Stated later in the same book as blindingly fast.

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Roland faces off one of the most notorious Gunslingers for hire, Eldrad Jonas. As a fresh teenager Roland quick draws and double fires faster than Eldrad could bring his own gun to bear. Putting the same bullet through the same bullet hole in the skull on the most infamous gunman of the Mejis.

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Eddie Dean states that Susana make myself look like a turtle walking up hill on glass in speed. Yet Roland makes Susanna look slow. This is proven when Eddie had issues shooting the antenna of this robotic rat. The rat was inches from Susanna's face. To Eddie it look like Roland would never act, or paying attention. After Roland saves Eddie right after with his draw speed on the robotic bat, Eddie realizes the speed difference is so huge. In that time that the rat was inches from Susanna's face, Roland could likely eat a burger, drink a shake, and still had time to draw and hit the ratbot. He is just that fast.

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Roland in this scene of the book and comic, is stated to draw his gun faster than thought. Like blue summer lightning. In the comic, we see the gun smoke of the bullet about to exit the barrel. In that time the bullet just nick Roland's chin, Roland already drew his gun and fire.

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Flathearty and his gang of 17 soldiers that consisted of of Type 3 Vampires, Low Men, and Taheen. All are killed before they could fire their own guns back. Flathearty himself is killed while halfway drawing his gun by Roland who still had his hand up to his mouth. In this Roland with the super speed compared to Flathearty, fires off two shots. In a split second as stated, Eddie fire 6 shots, then Roland reloading his two fired another 6, then Eddie who reloaded again fired another 5 shots. All in the time that these train soldiers could bring up there own weapons.

> Accuracy

This is another area that Roland is supernatural in. he simply never missed a shot at the start of the first novel, The Gunslinger. Very rarely he miss shots as a teen kid, but in the time of the first major book, he never missed a shot. No matter how impossible the shots are.

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Roland blows away a thrown axe with gunshots.

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Roland shows incredible accuracy and skill here. He already been dodging and killing towns people, but then in the last few moments of the fight, Roland has over half the town still coming at him. Roland dodges attacks, keeps from being overwhelmed, dodges thrown objects, and reloads when needed. putting a single bullet in over all 58 people. One bullet per person. Stated never a shot missing the target, and each shot a kill shot.

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Wolves of Calla are Dr Doom like robots, using Golden Snitches bombs and Lightsabers, who can only be taken down by shooting the thumb size antenna device on their head. Roland alone takes them down in droves at range, firing from the hip no less and taking out these fighting bots whose only weakness is the thumb size antennas on the heads. Never missing a shot.

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One shot, while dying from poison and fever. Instead of dozens of M-16 rounds on one target in perfect health. Just saying. Leon is simply outclass. Roland does not even need to reload his guns, though even if he had to his reload skills are sick as shit.

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Roland accurately making head shot on Mutants trying to kill Jake. The insane thing is this scenario is near pitch black, and Roland even blinds himself from the flash of his own pistols, but still never misses a head shot.

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Roland here has a friend using binoculars to see the enemy who by scale of the pictures is more than 500 yards away. Its foggy as hell too. Roland with no binoculars takes the shot from the distance they are at, and hit a head shot on a guy who is at the base of that tower. no one sees Roland make the shot even though there is a small army station around the area.

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Here again Roland makes a shot from what is drawn as a easy 100 yards away in heavy smoke conditions. He makes the shot with no issues, and runs to the area. Its not like he was next store with a clear day shot. Even his fellow posse is asking him to wait for the wind to blow the smoke away to make their own shots, and they are all proven marksmen in the first 5 graphic novels as well.

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The Not Men use future tech to turn perfect invisible, and train as military hit men for the Crimson King. In Roland's first encounter with them, and takes out one of them out handily by determining their position.

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Roland's second encounter with invisible Not Men has Roland taking out a small force of them. Heavily armed force at that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3YR1-gJjWM

Golden Snitches from Harry potter stories are pretty fast and small. With zig zag patterns too boot. It be impossible to nail that thing right? Right?

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Roland spends nearly a full day shooting down 3-4 Golden Sneetches at a time. Shooting down over a couple dozen. Best part is Roland is dehydrated with thirst, and has the painful migrain thanks to the drone of the Dark Tower in his head the whole time while doing this. Making IMPOSSIBLE shots over most of the day.

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As stated, Roland hits multiple men with a single bullet of his own gunfire while being shot to hell himself in a blind rage. he is being shot down, total tunnel vision with rage, and still kills more men than he had bullets.

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Roland is so damn good, he simply closes his eyes, listens, and accurately head shots a foe dragging Jake behind him. Through all the obstacles, and at great distance.

> Awareness

Roland is a hell of tracker, and has supernatural like awareness of his surroundings. Noticing details no on else would, even in states where perception is hindered.

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In this scan, Roland is poison and dying of fever from previous attacks. He shares the senses of Eddie Dean, which is complicated magic tech of another universe. The point is he is dying of fever, and poison burning him up, but still remains fully aware through Eddie Dean's own body, Roland easily notices that Eddie was being studied and followed by various agents trying to work a sting on Eddie and the drugs he smuggled.

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Still suffering the fever, and side effects of the poison now being treated, Roland falls asleep. only to sense while asleep that the bad personality of Susanna was slipping off and away. In his condition. Then halfway through the feat, she studied him, and Roland forced sleep on himself again till she looked away which he sensed in sleep yet again. All in terrible condition of illness!

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In this, it states what Roland's train eye and senses were able to discern in a very hectic scene. Roland's mind transported by the Beams (Psychic forces that balance the multiverse) to a stand off where his closest to a son Jake was surrounded by Taheen and Low Men. Yet in this few seconds he smelled the roast of human flesh, discern the tapestries in the building, and determine the threats lurking in the next room of Grandfather Vampires.

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As stated here, when fighting the Android death machines, Roland mentally was not there, but his eyes painted and projected everything he needed to know of the battle going on. taking shots, guiding forces, all the while not mentally thinking about those things specifically.

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Roland in a strange forest to him casually glances around and notices all the surroundings, and track rabbits across the stream.

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Roland in the darkness of night runs through the forest, and tracks Jake who was sleep walking to his doom. Never needing to study the terrain, just running and tracking on the go in darkness.

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Roland is so damn good, he simply closes his eyes, listens, and accurately head shots a foe dragging Jake behind him. Through all the obstacles, and at great distance.

> Mental Resistance

It should be noted that Roland has incredible strength of will. His durability feats show this physically, but mentally as well. Roland regularly faces telepathic beings that would mentally feed off you, and entrance you. Roland surviving these beings and worse fine.

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Roland is entranced by the demonic oracle. What kills most men once entrap, Roland was able to fight the effects off.

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Roland is mentally manipulated by a Dust Devil while dying of dehydration in the hot desert.Roland still breaks free of its influence.

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Roland's mind is sent to the beginning if the Multiverse. A act that kills any other man dead, or drives those that live insane. Roland takes it easily in stride.

> Guns of Deschain

The revolvers Roland use are more than normal guns. They are the weapons of the Dinh, and forge from Excalibur itself, which was forge from the Dark Tower.

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These guns are not of this world, and lasted a millennia without ever breaking.

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These guns are stated in both novel and comic to use 45. rounds of various kinds. The modern worlds Winchester .45 not being the exact round as Gilead made, but the modern world equivalent that the guns can use.

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These weapons being forge from the Dark Tower can kill immortal beings as well. Only limit to them was the kill shot had to be an kill shot, and the immortal creature is not true undead like the Type One Vampires are.

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Beings like Dust Devils, and Demonic Oracles who have no solid bodies run in terror of the threat being shot by Roland's guns.

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The bullets from Gilead can also be used as ear plugs to block out the siren like drone of Thinnies that force you to go mad with insanity, or commit suicide.

*credit for the scans: @sirfizzwhizz

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#4 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14678 posts) - - Show Bio

@higorm:

Open Strategy

Spot will open a number of spots surrounding his opponents distracting and stalling them for a few seconds. Entering the spots would port them randomly a mile away. Which would allow Nick and Spot to assassinate them unaware. Simultaneously Havok will be giving the opponents a near fatal heat stroke. Considering they don't have a healing factor this should hinder them in the capacity to think let alone fight. Nick will have Spot send him to the Spot dimension so when the time is right he'll shoot out of the of the dimension for an unavoidable shot.

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Continuous bursts of plasma heats up Alt reality Sabretooth's adamantium bones.

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Rogue states the plasma burst stings with Ms Marvel's powers.

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Gives Hulk a headache to the point he complies, passing out & reverting to Banner.

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#5 Posted by HigorM (8876 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity:sorry for the delay..

Strategy

My plan is pretty simple, Roland Deschain will act as backup for Archer, giving him enough time to assimilate your team's skill thanks to his power. Archer is a psiot, someone who can, through psionic powers, copy or download entire skill sets from the "Akashic field". As you can see in my previous scans and explanation he can pretty much hack someone's skill on the fly and use it against them. Roland can fire with both weapons simultaneously which means he can shoot more than one target at once, and that's my goal here, keep your team busy while Archer makes his move. Once he's ready, Archer will engage your team members with Roland helping him from distance, who can, at least stalemate Nick Fury, neutralizing him from distance. Just see his scans and you will know he's capable of doing that.

Now, Archer can pretty much deal with both Spot and Havok at the same time, since from my scans you can see he was able to fight multiple super human opponents at once, with a combination of power and skill. He can get rid of either of them with a single attack calle neural spike, which pretty much is a mental assault which they can't avoid. None of them should last too much since at this point Archer is way above either skill wise and have powers on top of that, he can both attack and defend himself so there's not much they can do.

As for defense, Archer possess a power called "Shield" that allows him to defende himself and block attacks, it's basically the ability to cover ones self in a wave of protective telekinetic energy, so he can cover himself and his teammate if necessary.

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As for Spot attacks, which for me is basically being able to react to a imminent attack, here's Archer being able to react to a invisible foe:

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In addition, Roland has supernatural like awareness of his surroundings, noticing details no on else would, even in states where perception is hindered. Examples below:

  1. in a strange forest to him casually glances around and notices all the surroundings, and track rabbits across the stream.
  2. in the darkness of night runs through the forest, and tracks Jake who was sleep walking to his doom. Never needing to study the terrain, just running and tracking on the go in darkness.
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Roland is so damn good, he simply closes his eyes, listens, and accurately head shots a foe dragging Jake behind him. Through all the obstacles, and at great distance:

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That being said I believe both my team members possess what it takes to sucessfully deal with Spot in this scenario.

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#6 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14678 posts) - - Show Bio

@higorm:

Rebuttal I

My plan is pretty simple, Roland Deschain will act as backup for Archer, giving him enough time to assimilate your team's skill thanks to his power. Archer is a psiot, someone who can, through psionic powers, copy or download entire skill sets from the "Akashic field". As you can see in my previous scans and explanation he can pretty much hack someone's skill on the fly and use it against them.

I'm not convinced this will work. For one none of my characters powers stem from psionics which is the only believable thing Archer can copy. Havok powers comes from his mutant gene, while Spot's comes from his exposure to the darkforce creating a subspace of spots.

Roland can fire with both weapons simultaneously which means he can shoot more than one target at once, and that's my goal here, keep your team busy while Archer makes his move.

Havok has your team instantly countered since your team will pass out from a heat stroke. You haven't shown any heat resistance for your team and with that I doubt any will match how much heat Havok will produce.

So Roland will have trouble seeing, gripping his gun, and thinking enough to aim. Realistically Roland passes out in the first few seconds without even firing his gun. The same should go for Archer unless somehow he has high heat resistance.

Once he's ready, Archer will engage your team members with Roland helping him from distance, who can, at least stalemate Nick Fury, neutralizing him from distance. Just see his scans and you will know he's capable of doing that.

Now, Archer can pretty much deal with both Spot and Havok at the same time, since from my scans you can see he was able to fight multiple super human opponents at once, with a combination of power and skill. He can get rid of either of them with a single attack calle neural spike, which pretty much is a mental assault which they can't avoid. None of them should last too much since at this point Archer is way above either skill wise and have powers on top of that, he can both attack and defend himself so there's not much they can do.

The problem with leading up to this point it assumes my team sits still and does nothing. I mean if Archer had a better teammate maybe a distraction could be provided. Such as a teleporter, telekinetic, or a speedster. But all Archer has is a marksman which two of my the characters on my team aren't even on the battlefield. When spot carries a character to the Spot dimensions he has shown to be their with them.

Your strategy is segmented an if then strategies rarely work.

As for Archers attacks. Havok has telepathic defences placed by Xavier, while Spot and Nick are in a different dimension.

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You'll have to prove Archer can copy powers that have no relation to psionics, before I address him with my team's powers.

As for dealing with Archer I'm still maintaining Havok's overheats him. But if you can prove otherwise Spot and Nick can still assassinate him. Such as opening a portal on Archer's shoulder and shooting a bullet into his neck/head. There isn't really a way to dodge such an odd angled shot when the bullet is being fired in a separate dimension.

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#7 Edited by HigorM (8876 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity:

Counters

I'm not convinced this will work. For one none of my characters powers stem from psionics which is the only believable thing Archer can copy. Havok powers comes from his mutant gene, while Spot's comes from his exposure to the darkforce creating a subspace of spots.

It doesn't need to come from a psionic source, all it needs is Archer being able to read the target's mind. So it will work just fine unless they have some sort of protection against mind reading..

Havok has your team instantly countered since your team will pass out from a heat stroke. You haven't shown any heat resistance for your team and with that I doubt any will match how much heat Havok will produce.

So Roland will have trouble seeing, gripping his gun, and thinking enough to aim. Realistically Roland passes out in the first few seconds without even firing his gun. The same should go for Archer unless somehow he has high heat resistance.

I've shown Archer being able to raise a shield up to protect himself against an upcoming attack, he manage to block bullets after they were fired while dealing with other enemies. I'm sure he can do the same here to avoid being hit by Havok heat. As for heat resistance, Archer shield allows him to cover himself in a wave of protective telekinetic energy, which should be enough to protect him in this fight.

The problem with leading up to this point it assumes my team sits still and does nothing. I mean if Archer had a better teammate maybe a distraction could be provided. Such as a teleporter, telekinetic, or a speedster. But all Archer has is a marksman which two of my the characters on my team aren't even on the battlefield. When spot carries a character to the Spot dimensions he has shown to be their with them.

The thing is that you don't start at another dimension, we all start at the same place, which means Archer will have time to assimilate your team power set and use it against them, just like he did in the scans I provided. Roland is there just for general cover as he can draw and shoot very quickly. But once Archer manage to copy Spot than your strategy won't work anymore as he will be able to use it against you, since he downloads not only the power but also the skill, learning how to use it, which means he can predict the oponent moves.

As for Archers attacks. Havok has telepathic defences placed by Xavier, while Spot and Nick are in a different dimension.

Ok, but it should still work against the rest of your team since none of them possess psionic protection.

You'll have to prove Archer can copy powers that have no relation to psionics, before I address him with my team's powers.

As already mentioned, he copies someone's powers by entering the target's mind so he can download their entire skill set. It's just like I said in my oponer, Archer has the ability to copy and instantly master any skill he see's. He "downloads" skills from the "Akashic field."

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It's the Akashic field that allows him to do that, so there's no relation to the target having his powers from a psionic source.

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As for dealing with Archer I'm still maintaining Havok's overheats him. But if you can prove otherwise Spot and Nick can still assassinate him. Such as opening a portal on Archer's shoulder and shooting a bullet into his neck/head. There isn't really a way to dodge such an odd angled shot when the bullet is being fired in a separate dimension.

I'm sure Archer's shield is enough to block Havok's attacks. And since he will be able to copy Spot I believe your strategy won't work since Archer can pretty much use Spot's powers against himself, this will leave Roland open to strike your team and help Archer win the fight.

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#8 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14678 posts) - - Show Bio

@higorm:

Rebuttal II

It doesn't need to come from a psionic source, all it needs is Archer being able to read the target's mind. So it will work just fine unless they have some sort of protection against mind reading..

All the powers you showed Archer copying can be reproduced in marvel with psionics, so I assumed if we are equating this "Akashic field"(no idea what it is or how it works) with marvel then he would be limited to psionics. But even still he can't read Havok's mind nor Spots when he's in a separate dimension. So that blows up your strategy.

I've shown Archer being able to raise a shield up to protect himself against an upcoming attack, he manage to block bullets after they were fired while dealing with other enemies. I'm sure he can do the same here to avoid being hit by Havok heat. As for heat resistance, Archer shield allows him to cover himself in a wave of protective telekinetic energy, which should be enough to protect him in this fight.

The attack won't even be visible since all Havok is doing is heating the area around your team to near fatal levels. With that a TK shield that isn't air tight will still allow your team to be heated.

The thing is that you don't start at another dimension, we all start at the same place, which means Archer will have time to assimilate your team power set and use it against them, just like he did in the scans I provided. Roland is there just for general cover as he can draw and shoot very quickly. But once Archer manage to copy Spot than your strategy won't work anymore as he will be able to use it against you, since he downloads not only the power but also the skill, learning how to use it, which means he can predict the oponent moves.

There is a number of problems with this. Starting with Archer won't know Havok has telepathic defences, and know that I think of it Nick does too. So two out of three character's Archer can't copy skills from. Which means for your strategy to work he would need to know Spot is the only one to target.

Moving on your scan even states Archer copies powers he has seen/experienced. "Don't use any new powers ---You're just teaching him how to kick our ass--"

Once again Archer shouldn't have time to copy any powers as he should be KOed from a heat stroke. This really should be the fate of your team.

Ok, but it should still work against the rest of your team since none of them possess psionic protection.

Shield posses a variety of telepathic defences and Nick would have the best implants same as Daisy or Spider Woman

Daisy even notes her psychic shields to Emma Frost.

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And Spider Woman stated she had them installed with shield. Which is why Xavier couldn't drop her with telepathy.

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As already mentioned, he copies someone's powers by entering the target's mind so he can download their entire skill set. It's just like I said in my oponer, Archer has the ability to copy and instantly master any skill he see's. He "downloads" skills from the "Akashic field."

It's the Akashic field that allows him to do that, so there's no relation to the target having his powers from a psionic source.

Every power you've shown has is by nature a psionic power in marvel. Even this Akashic field can be likened to psionic plane which is the collective minds of the universe. You haven't shown archer copy something such as teleportation, a healing factor or even superhuman durability.

I won't push it considering the obscurity of this character, which means feats will also be lacking. But just stating Archer reads mind to copy powers doesn't suggest any credible limits and should be scrutinized. I'm still of the opinion archer isn't copying powers of my characters.

I'm sure Archer's shield is enough to block Havok's attacks. And since he will be able to copy Spot I believe your strategy won't work since Archer can pretty much use Spot's powers against himself, this will leave Roland open to strike your team and help Archer win the fight.

It isn't, or at least you haven't shown as much. This isn't a bolt of energy being fired, Havok is hitting your team with pure heat. If we don't ignore physics the your characters will absorb the heat through convection. Which means they have no way around it unless they are in an airtight energy shield.

Roland is KOed by this time I'm not sure why you would even bring him up. As I've stated before Roland is suffering a near fatal heat stroke and his guns should also be too hot to hold. Keep in mind Havok overheated a helicopter engine which can run up to 225°F, Havok can produce 10 times that on the low end and has even affected the Hulk.

A burst of plasma can overheat an engine.

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As it stands now they should collapse from Havok's heat blast.

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#9 Edited by HigorM (8876 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity:

Counters²

All the powers you showed Archer copying can be reproduced in marvel with psionics, so I assumed if we are equating this "Akashic field"(no idea what it is or how it works) with marvel then he would be limited to psionics. But even still he can't read Havok's mind nor Spots when he's in a separate dimension. So that blows up your strategy.

In the scan below we can see another explanation about his powers, it says that he can access skill sets and bases of knowledge from a previously undiscovered psychic plane of collective consciousness. It also shows another power he gained called elektrokinesis, described as the psiot power to manipulate energies and electrical currents, and generate electricity with the mind. Taking that into consideration, the fact that Archer can manipulate energy, I wonder if he could also manipulate Havok's plasma attacks since it's energy based.

OK so Archer shouldn't be able to assimilate Havok's power but I'm not convinced he can't do it against Spot who doesn't have any sort of mental protection, also, as already said, he doesn't start the fight in another dimension so Archer should be able to download his powers once they are all in the same place, I'm sure he can do it before Spot manage to "scape".

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The attack won't even be visible since all Havok is doing is heating the area around your team to near fatal levels. With that a TK shield that isn't air tight will still allow your team to be heated.

Well my team won't be there just standing, Roland is the fastest on the draw by feats so he should be able to place a shot or two at Havok if we consider his incredible marksmanship skill. Archer has the TK shield to protect himself and his teammate if necessary, he also has a crossbow so he can attack from distance, aside from the aforementioned electrokinesis. But even if all that fails, Archer can just get out of danger via flight, as you can see in the scan, flight is achieved psionically when the Psiot propels himself telekinetically, and he can also bring Roland with him.

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Some Accuracy feats from Archer:

Archer manages to accurately place a grapple arrow from a long distance, and manages to shoot an arrow into a moving targets gun at night in the pouring rain.

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Archer shoots Eternal Warriors hand, accurately hits the small explosive cartridges on his arm, and is confident enough to fire an arrow that just skims his face to hit a target. (He gave Gilad a lot of grief in this story arc xD)

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Archer is a master in Knife Throwing, and accurately shoots an arrow through the Geomancers vocal cords, without killing her.

There is a number of problems with this. Starting with Archer won't know Havok has telepathic defences, and know that I think of it Nick does too. So two out of three character's Archer can't copy skills from. Which means for your strategy to work he would need to know Spot is the only one to target.

Once again Archer shouldn't have time to copy any powers as he should be KOed from a heat stroke. This really should be the fate of your team.

He doesn't need to know, he will only copy the one avaiable to him at the moment, which is Spot and probably Nick Fury too. It happens in the speed of thought so he should be able to identify the target and assimilate his powers along with the experience to use it properly. The speed of thought is way faster than any kind of movement your team attempt to perform.

Now as for the heat stroke, I believe that it might fail considering one of Archer's powers, pyrokinesis, the ability to generate and manipulate fire. As you can see in the scan heat is not a problem for him, we can also see another instance where the telekinetic shield is used.

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Shield posses a variety of telepathic defences and Nick would have the best implants same as Daisy or Spider Woman

You claim that Nick "would have telepathic defences via implantas" but you showed zero proof, just examples from different characters which is basically an ABC Logic. I'd like to see an example from Nick Fury himself, otherwise I'll just assume that Archer will be able to copy him as well, or better yet, apply a neural spike to put him down from distance with zero effort.

Every power you've shown has is by nature a psionic power in marvel. Even this Akashic field can be likened to psionic plane which is the collective minds of the universe. You haven't shown archer copy something such as teleportation, a healing factor or even superhuman durability.

I won't push it considering the obscurity of this character, which means feats will also be lacking. But just stating Archer reads mind to copy powers doesn't suggest any credible limits and should be scrutinized. I'm still of the opinion archer isn't copying powers of my characters.

I've already demonstrated several different powers from Archer, all of them copied through the Akashic field, he used powers like muscle mode which is telekinetic enhanced strengh, same thing can be used for durability, it can cover his whole body if needed:

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Copying powers is what he does, that's the nature of the character, in almost every single issue he learns a new power or skill set, we can't just throw away his most fundamental feature just because he can use it for my benefit against your team.

It isn't, or at least you haven't shown as much. This isn't a bolt of energy being fired, Havok is hitting your team with pure heat. If we don't ignore physics the your characters will absorb the heat through convection. Which means they have no way around it unless they are in an airtight energy shield.

Roland is KOed by this time I'm not sure why you would even bring him up. As I've stated before Roland is suffering a near fatal heat stroke and his guns should also be too hot to hold. Keep in mind Havok overheated a helicopter engine which can run up to 225°F, Havok can produce 10 times that on the low end and has even affected the Hulk.

As of now, I've presented a number of options avaiable for Archer to properly deal with Havok's heat plasma. He can strike your him with electrokinesis, stum ram, just shoot with his crossbow, or just leave the place via flight. Flying away from danger should be the best option as it allows Roland to shoot your team from distance which gives the team a solid advantage. Archer's TK alone must be enough to repel any attacks coming towards him.

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#10 Posted by HigorM (8876 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14678 posts) - - Show Bio

@higorm:

Rebuttal III

In the scan below we can see another explanation about his powers, it says that he can access skill sets and bases of knowledge from a previously undiscovered psychic plane of collective consciousness. It also shows another power he gained called elektrokinesis, described as the psiot power to manipulate energies and electrical currents, and generate electricity with the mind. Taking that into consideration, the fact that Archer can manipulate energy, I wonder if he could also manipulate Havok's plasma attacks since it's energy based.

It's possible if he knew about it and had time to think up a counter with his existing power sets. But Havok is blasting pure heat not a plasma bolt. Which means his powers have no visible tell.

OK so Archer shouldn't be able to assimilate Havok's power but I'm not convinced he can't do it against Spot who doesn't have any sort of mental protection, also, as already said, he doesn't start the fight in another dimension so Archer should be able to download his powers once they are all in the same place, I'm sure he can do it before Spot manage to "scape".

This argument is twofold since you believe archer can copy Spots powers before he ports, but Archer is also being attacked. So it's a race against time no matter what he does.

Well my team won't be there just standing, Roland is the fastest on the draw by feats so he should be able to place a shot or two at Havok if we consider his incredible marksmanship skill.

Actually no Havok is faster on the draw by feats.

Havok tagged Rogue flying at super speed. We know this because Rogue states "An' move so fast ---- ah'll be on top o' the team......before they know it ---- that's the way to win!"

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Havok also taggs Gladiator bull rushing him.

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Archer has the TK shield to protect himself and his teammate if necessary, he also has a crossbow so he can attack from distance, aside from the aforementioned electrokinesis. But even if all that fails, Archer can just get out of danger via flight, as you can see in the scan, flight is achieved psionically when the Psiot propels himself telekinetically, and he can also bring Roland with him.

All of it should fail, but I'll get in depth on why TK shield shouldn't help much below. Projectiles and bullets would already be too hot should melt or even explode being of no use. Electricity will be absorb as Archer produces it, and used against him.

Havok's absorption is sensitive enough to absorb a minimal amount of light over the course a month.

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Absorbs enough energy from a star to dominate Vulcan.

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Drains Kang of his Celestial energy amp & pummels him with it.

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Flight is a no go as Spot has surrounded your team in spots which would BFR them giving my team a chance to pick them off.

He doesn't need to know, he will only copy the one avaiable to him at the moment, which is Spot and probably Nick Fury too. It happens in the speed of thought so he should be able to identify the target and assimilate his powers along with the experience to use it properly. The speed of thought is way faster than any kind of movement your team attempt to perform.

Actually now we have insurmountable proof Archer only copies powers through psionic means. "Can assess skill sets and bases of knowledge from a previously undiscovered psychic plane of collective consciousness." Spots power to teleport between dimensions is due to an experiment he performed on himself to reproduce Cloak's powers that linked him to the dark force. There isn't anything psionic or learned about this.

Now as for the heat stroke, I believe that it might fail considering one of Archer's powers, pyrokinesis, the ability to generate and manipulate fire. As you can see in the scan heat is not a problem for him, we can also see another instance where the telekinetic shield is used.

So archer has some heat resistance through pyrokinesis, alright. That only means he isn't dropped instantly like Roland will be. Form there all Havok would need to do it poure on more heat. Considering I've stated before "I doubt any will match how much heat Havok will produce." Havok has downed Hulk with his heat so Archer won't different. Keep in mind Hulk has heat resistance stacked with his durability.

You claim that Nick "would have telepathic defences via implantas" but you showed zero proof, just examples from different characters which is basically an ABC Logic. I'd like to see an example from Nick Fury himself, otherwise I'll just assume that Archer will be able to copy him as well, or better yet, apply a neural spike to put him down from distance with zero effort.

Nick hasn't faced a telepath but it seems pretty common for shield agents of note to have defences against telepathy. But Archer really gets nothing from Nick, he doesn't already have. I just thought it would be proper to add.

I've already demonstrated several different powers from Archer, all of them copied through the Akashic field, he used powers like muscle mode which is telekinetic enhanced strengh, same thing can be used for durability, it can cover his whole body if needed:

Copying powers is what he does, that's the nature of the character, in almost every single issue he learns a new power or skill set, we can't just throw away his most fundamental feature just because he can use it for my benefit against your team.

I've addressed this but since new evidence has factored against your argument I'll continue to address this. Muscle mode is enhanced physicals through TK, which is a psionic power. Learning skills and teaching skills through telepathy is psionic. Electrokinesis and pyrokinesis is psionic. The fact that you still think archer just copies powers in general means that you don't even know the limits of his power. Which discredits your argument. I never sated he couldn't copy cany kinetic/kinesis ability but none of the abilities you've shown or my team has is psionic or kinetic in nature. Havok body is altered to be a battery for energy, and Spot is linked to the spot dimension.

As of now, I've presented a number of options avaiable for Archer to properly deal with Havok's heat plasma. He can strike your him with electrokinesis, stum ram, just shoot with his crossbow, or just leave the place via flight. Flying away from danger should be the best option as it allows Roland to shoot your team from distance which gives the team a solid advantage. Archer's TK alone must be enough to repel any attacks coming towards him.

Your best option was countered in my opening strategy being surrounded in spots. Stunt ram is rather unimpressive as all it did was blast back some men and destroy a couch.

Nick has a force shield, and will be porting away with Spot. Havok can also shield himself with his plasma.

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I'm going to skip closing statements and we'll go to votes after your reply.

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#12 Posted by HigorM (8876 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14678 posts) - - Show Bio

@higorm: I opened so I assumed you wanted to close. But I don't mind just trying to be balanced.

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#14 Posted by HigorM (8876 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: Well I don't have anything new to add so I believe there's enough material for the voters..

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#15 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Posted by deactivated-5ae093dce87a8 (99 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: How does one vote? Just say who we are voting for in chat?

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#17 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14678 posts) - - Show Bio

WUT

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#18 Posted by deactivated-5ae093dce87a8 (99 posts) - - Show Bio