@kilgpmktra: With problems I don't mean that Doom got hurt or something, he just had problems to fight against the IG. I think it would be PIS, if the IG would win against the Ivory Kings powers. To the death of the Ivory Kings: They needed to resort the fact, that the ivory kings are kryptonite to the abstract entities, right? That would make no sense, because LT would get destroyed in a second then.
@kilgpmktra: With problems I don't mean that Doom got hurt or something, he just had problems to fight against the IG. I think it would be PIS, if the IG would win against the Ivory Kings powers. To the death of the Ivory Kings: They needed to resort the fact, that the ivory kings are kryptonite to the abstract entities, right? That would make no sense, because LT would get destroyed in a second then.
The idea that the Ivory Kings are Kryptonite to Abstracts is a myth. It is based on a misunderstanding of Breevort's WOG. What he mean't is that he sacrifices power scaling logic for a better story. And that power scaling is not all black and white.
The Ivory Kings just killed the abstracts out of Raw Power Potency. While somehow suffering tons upon tons of really horrible low showings that even Baseline Multiversals would be way above. You have to get used to the wonkiness of comics.
Same reason why DC's cosmology dimensional number sometimes changes between writers. Infinite Dimensional to Matteis, Jenkins, Carey (technically Didio as well and this one writer whose name I forgot who wrote for New Gods) but finite to other writers.
bound spectre would get owned with ture from darksied by anyone on team 2
but unbound will tip the scale for team dc
Bound Spectre is more powerful than unbound so I fail to see how
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When Spectre was stripped of Corrigan he lacked the power to do any harm to Eclipso. When Corrigan called back the power he casually stomps Eclipso.
Same was true when Crispus Allen hand't chosen to accept the role of Spectre. Eclipso causally harming spectre but unable to do much at all to him after Crispus did accept it.
DOV isn't just "unbound Spectre" it is Unbound SPectre AFTER he has one by one destroyed and absorbed the power of every magical place in the DCU
It wasn't being unbound that made him powerful in DOV it was the magic he had devoured throughout the story
bound spectre would get owned with ture from darksied by anyone on team 2
but unbound will tip the scale for team dc
Bound Spectre is more powerful than unbound so I fail to see how
Gallery
When Spectre was stripped of Corrigan he lacked the power to do any harm to Eclipso. When Corrigan called back the power he casually stomps Eclipso.
Same was true when Crispus Allen hand't chosen to accept the role of Spectre. Eclipso causally harming spectre but unable to do much at all to him after Crispus did accept it.
DOV isn't just "unbound Spectre" it is Unbound SPectre AFTER he has one by one destroyed and absorbed the power of every magical place in the DCU
It wasn't being unbound that made him powerful in DOV it was the magic he had devoured throughout the story
Team 2 win as unbound Spectre is the weak link
just thought when i knew spectre more this happens
No worries. Common misconception. Some users like van claire will argur into infinity its not the case despite evidence to the contrary.
Its sort of one of the rules of magic in the DCU. binding a magical entity to a mortal form weakens it (like Fate taking a host) as the mortal form ca. Be harmed by the magical energy wielded. Binding it to an imortal form (or spirit) strengthens it. Thats why Spectre is always bonded to someone who has died giving them life anew.
When Mordru first took his mortal host (a wizard from gem world)he was weak then he bound the deceased soul of the wizard whos body he took and returned to full power. He later bonded Arion's soul as well and became more powerful again. The JSA had to divert his attention while the Late Arion freed himslef which weakened Mordru enough to be beaten
@beatboks1: the way spectre is bound to a host is the complete contrary of what happens to nabu. Spectre unbound is strong but in dov, it's still all the magic he consumed.
The host depends on compatibility with aztar
Nabu just needs Kent to stop interfering although he needs a host to channel his power. Kent being the most compatible one.
Spectre was confirmed to be hindered throughout DoV, but OK...
And Spectre needs a host to fully exercise his power on the material plane, but his power-level also depends entirely on how compatible he is with the host. That's why Hal Jordan and Crispus Allen are the sources for most of the Spectre's low-end feats. I assume Unbound Spectre just means Aztar, at full power, without any host interference.
@nightmarediablo712: In DOv Nabu Stated spectre should have one-shotted him if he was truly absorbing magic like he thought he was but alexander was secretly taking the energy every thing he did there was by his own power.
Spectre didn't one shot nabu either and even if he had done so , it would have just been like I told. (by the magic) as he was brutally incapable without it and needed to invoke "god's" divine wrath which he had to finally call upon.
Cough, although spectre has imprisoned mxy (arguably lesser powers)
In grant Morrison's justice league run, qwsp refers to himself as encompassing all of time and hypertime in addition to our spatial dimension, and another djinn called Lkz overcame and bound a hostless spectre who was God's wrath with no apparent trouble
@michaeljulius: You cant just say that US is at Presence level though. At best you could use his Best Showings, which still isnt even close to what the Beyonders did.
@redshift_bacon: Sure I can. I said Spectre at his full potential, whatever that level is. I don't believe reality warping works on Unbound Spectre. Reality molecule warping is not the end all, be all of powers to have. Divine authority will override infinite reality warping. This is like saying Beyonder would beat Jesus Christ in a fight. It sounds quite silly. The type of power the combatants have matters, not their feats. One is inspired by what was God wrath. The other is an alien race who controls physics.
Why would Physics alteration affect a portion of God? It won't. While the Beyonder's have showcased more power than the Spectre, it won't matter. Their powers won't do anything to the most powerful versions of The Spectre, especially not when he merged with The Word. The most commonly seen versions of The Spectre would lose. But, not when The Spectre has all of his power active, and again, certainly not when he merged with The Logoz Word (who is Jesus).
@michaeljulius: Thats called a No-Limits fallacy. The Beyonders power worked on Abstract entities and the Living Tribunal. They dont just have Reality Warping powers, they have DC capable of permanently ending Infinite-Multiversal entities. The fact is, The Spectre was defeated by lesser beings using lesser abilities. Deny it all you want, the Beyonders are far above a vast majority of Comics characters, and it isnt through scaling or aome “Divine Power” you claim transcends Feats. Its directly shown to us.
The talk of Spectre being bound or unbound or a weak link or true Darkseid being a myth or even God Doom having a teammate do not matter. God Doom solos all three.
@michaeljulius: Thats called a No-Limits fallacy. The Beyonders power worked on Abstract entities and the Living Tribunal. They dont just have Reality Warping powers, they have DC capable of permanently ending Infinite-Multiversal entities.
The no Limits fallacy doesn't apply here. These are Multiversal level Physics warpers and nothing more. They are interdimensional aliens. They have no divinity what so ever, their powers were gifted to them by whomever made their realm. They actually don't have the ability to exist in multiple moments in time at once, they have limits. The author explained why The Beyonders defeated The Living Tribunal. Because that cosmic entity is weak to physics warping.
The fact is, The Spectre was defeated by lesser beings using lesser abilities. Deny it all you want, the Beyonders are far above a vast majority of Comics characters
I agree and didn't counter this statement at all. They hold no power over someone who has no physics to begin with and you are making the mistake of assuming Marvel's cosmic entities are also divine. The Biblical Divinity found in DC is not found in Marvel. God in Marvel isn't the same as The Presence in DC. Infinite reality warping doesn't matter to a select few characters in DC. The Marvel Cosmic entities still are limited by Reality Warping because they are bound by physics, however oscure. Their "conceptual" entities are still run and governmed by particle physics and one of the most powerful of them was destroyed by particle manipulation.
and it isnt through scaling or aome “Divine Power” you claim transcends Feats. Its directly shown to us.
My statement was in regard to the full potential of The Spectre. Not his limited forms. The idea that the full power of an aspect of God would be at all affected by molecule dispursion or alteration is simply an incorrect way to view the battle.
The beings who created Physics in the first place are more powerful than the beings that use physics as a power. The religiously inspired divine beings, like Michael or Lucifer, or The Word, should, by rights, house a power that transcends any level of particle physics. To say a reality warper would defeat a true aspect of God would be a powerful misnomer.
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